Proposition 8

[LL2]

The gay marriage ban. As of typing this It looks like it will pass.

Ugh, this is absurd.


Why do people think that something other people do that HAS NOTHING TO DEAL WITH THEM AT ALL....is wrong

Why do you need to be involved in something that does not effect you or your interests.

Man, America can be inspiring and troubling at the same time.

The real point here is, it was voted on. What ever the outcome. It becomes up to the people. NOT JUDGES.

Yes, you are correct, but I'm sure we will see this challenged in court and some liberal judges will throw it out....for the second time.

If the majority of the people feel there should be no gay marriage, and I believe this thing needed 60% to pass, then the judges and politicians need to respect the vote of the majority. Obviously with this thing passing most people do not share Arcilite's views.

[3irty1]

We're just looking to regulate everything these days aren't we?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm Christian and Libertarian. On this issue, the clear answer to me is civil unions. They can have their own weddings. They can get all of the same benefits that a married couple get. I think it's a good compromise, but there are some that want to spit in the face of our foundation, ideals, traditions, or whatever you want to call it.

[SkinBasket]

What bobblehead said is the crux of the matter. Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow. Those people want to protect that definition for themselves more than they want to stop a couple of queers from wearing matching wedding dresses, holding hands, and being recognized as a joined couple. They can call it whatever they want, but it's not marriage.

I seem to recall something in there about til death, but thats pretty much out the fucking window too for like 55% of the marriages.

The success rate doesn't change the definition. Especially for those who are more likely to believe in their vows and to be in the 45%.

Then let the gays have a crack at it. Maybe they're better at it.

I agree, let them have a crack at "it," but calling "it" marriage doesn't fit the definition of marriage. Most queers I've known didn't want it called marriage either and you'll only be offending those who believe in the more religious aspects. Gays for the most part are clever. Let them come up with their own term. I'm sure it'll be fabulous.

[mraynrand]

The real cool thing is that proposition 10 passed in Ohio. I am now officially a Golden Retriever. You cannot, by force of law, say that I am not. You must also change print and other media to say that some humans are born as Goldens. To do otherwise is to discriminate against me, and is unconstitutional under the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. Unfortunately, according to local laws I must remain on a leash and be neutered.

[sheepshead]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

[packinpatland]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

[falco]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

I agree 100% PIP - I am very grateful that my parents believed in my ability to make my own decisions about the world.

[HowardRoark]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

Do you guys at least acknowledge that being a Lefty in today’s day is the easiest thing in the world to do? If you really want to show how “open” and “diverse” you are, become a Conservative. The irony of all ironies is that all the Baby Boomers who have been fighting the “man” are the “man.”

Celebrate Diversity!!!!!!! Of thought.

By the way, it’s a lot, not alot.

[mraynrand]

Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

And of course, those are the only two mutually exclusive options. Either you are 'letting them form their own opinions' or you are 'molding them to your own thinking.' Is 'letting them form their own opinions' your own thinking?

[sheepshead]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

You're off the point here but - whatever. You questioned whether anything should be explained... as a parent everything needs to be explained. Conclusions are then drawn. I have 3 kids also and they couldnt be more different. My oldest son goes to the Art Institute of Chicago on a scholarship and was in Grant Park yesterday and we texted back and forth. Does that sound like I have forced my will on him?

[packinpatland]

How am I 'off point'?

Partial's post was " think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands... :


That is not 'explaining', that's telling them what you think and how they should think.

[packinpatland]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

You're off the point here but - whatever. You questioned whether anything should be explained... as a parent everything needs to be explained. Conclusions are then drawn. I have 3 kids also and they couldnt be more different. My oldest son goes to the Art Institute of Chicago on a scholarship and was in Grant Park yesterday and we texted back and forth. Does that sound like I have forced my will on him?

As to your son.........sounds like you did a good job as a parent. He thinks on his own, yet respects your opinion.

[sheepshead]

How am I 'off point'?

Partial's post was " think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands... :


That is not 'explaining', that's telling them what you think and how they should think.

I took that as his kids reaction to what they saw. Instinctively concluding that it doesnt look right, because they have only seen men and women do that. Not addressing it actually only reinforces their initial reaction. If you just smile and go on your way, I'm afraid we havent accomplished anything as a parent.

[sheepshead]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

You're off the point here but - whatever. You questioned whether anything should be explained... as a parent everything needs to be explained. Conclusions are then drawn. I have 3 kids also and they couldnt be more different. My oldest son goes to the Art Institute of Chicago on a scholarship and was in Grant Park yesterday and we texted back and forth. Does that sound like I have forced my will on him?

As to your son.........sounds like you did a good job as a parent. He thinks on his own, yet respects your opinion.

The highest of compliments--thank you

[arcilite]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

You won't have much explaining to do because nothing is wrong.


A good parent would explain not all people are the same. While it is 'normal' for men and women to be together, some prefer to be with those of the same sex.

No biggie.

[Harlan Huckleby]

well...marriage has a definition, and gay isn't in it.

The definition used to be between people of the same race. And that definition was supported by over 90% of the population as recently as the early 1960's.

[falco]

well...marriage has a definition, and gay isn't in it.

The definition used to be between people of the same race. And that definition was supported by over 90% of the population as recently as the early 1960's.

and that is really the "last laugh" of this whole thing - american attitudes are changing, and barring any massive shifts, gay marriage will most likely become acceptable and commonplace within the next few decades as demographics shift

[Harlan Huckleby]

Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow.

This is exactly right. So what business does the government have in conferring religious sacraments? The gov should ONLY be authorized to do civil unions. "Marriage" should be conferred by your priest or witch doctor.

Back to arclite's original point: there is no barrier to gay acceptance that can't be overcome by heart disease. People under the age of 40 are cool with gay couples, older people are squeemish and aren't going to change. Its a generalization, but backed-up starkly by statistics. Death is the answer.

You can see the change happening right here in this forum. Madtown came out of the closet (indirectly) within the past year, it wasn't a big deal. FavreChild recently stepped up to the plate (pun intended), most people would be happy to see her get married.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Gays for the most part are clever.

No, you're thinking of the asians, they are the clever ones - they can make a TV into a watch. They used to be inscrutible, now they are clever. Whites are good with money. Indians can sneak up on ya. What was the other one.... mexicans have the gift of family, they can get along even if you put 100 relatives in one house. (that would be two familes) The gays, they're just really, really dirty, they never met an orifice they didn't like.