This guy looks like a moron now

[Fred's Slacks]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

Lets keep it real with the "unbelieveable talent" comment. They have good recievers. That's it.

Their line has been average at best and at times last year was horrible (IMO they were the start of the collapse, but that's a different topic). The Tampa game, the Atlanta game, the second Minnesota game, Rodgers was running for his life the entire game.

Grant's played well at times but nobody is going to confuse our RBs or TE's with probowlers any time soon.

Theres a big difference between having unbelievable talent and having a good recieving corp. I would say that the Cowboys had unbelievable talent on offense. Yet Rodgers had a higher QB rating than Romo. How did that happen?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

Welker was very good in miami...why do you think they wanted him.

Our talent is..well hilarious. We don't have much PRODUCTIVE talent at TE, we have jennings and driver..who is declining rapidly. Jordy and Jones have done NOTHING.

WE have phenomenal receivers and they are blue chip. LOL

And, if you think Plax would be competing for the #2 spot, you are daft.

Randall Cunningham was a journeyman. Oh, lord. We should only be blessed to have a 4x pro bowler, 4x all pro, UPI NFC player of the year, Pro bowl mvp in his 3rd year, 3x Bert Bell award winner, and comeback player of the year.

You have officially made yourself look even stupider than the forum believed possible.

[Lurker64]

Is it just me, or is it ironic that Partial accuses others of homerism when they defend Rodgers as being one of the better QBs in the league?

[RashanGary]

The problem is


Partial swore that the Packers would suck without Brett on Offense. Now that they don't suck, he's scrambling. He can't give in. He won't give in.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is it just me, or is it ironic that Partial accuses others of homerism when they defend Rodgers as being one of the better QBs in the league?

Yes.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The problem is


Partial swore that the Packers would suck without Brett on Offense. Now that they don't suck, he's scrambling. He can't give in. He won't give in.

Money Morency
Randall "4x all pro" Cunningham is a journeyman
Unbelievable blue chip packer receivers

It's like partial has permanent beer goggles on.

Ty, Justin, Leaper, Harv, vince, etc. "that chick is a 5"

Partial, "you guys are morons, she is a solid 9.5"

[Partial]

Welker was very good in miami...why do you think they wanted him.

Very good? You mean averaging 24 catches a season before coming to NE? Having a 12 fumble to 1 TD ratio?!? Where exactly is the very good? He was becoming a decent slot receiver when they traded for him. He only had three starts, and they were all due to injury.

Our talent is..well hilarious. We don't have much PRODUCTIVE talent at TE, we have jennings and driver..who is declining rapidly. Jordy and Jones have done NOTHING.

Rapidly declining? How so? Sure, his numbers were down last year but Jennings were up. That doesn't necessarily mean decline. That says to me that Jennings has improved to the point of being the #1.

I also think our TEs are better than solid. Lee is a pretty darn good player, as evidence by the extension TT gave him and being a pro-bowl alternate in 2007, when our QB used the middle of the field.

WE have phenomenal receivers and they are blue chip. LOL

Didn't say that. We have a top 5 receiving corps in the NFL.

And, if you think Plax would be competing for the #2 spot, you are daft.

Source? It's my personal opinion that Driver is a better all-around receiver than Plax. They're close, though.

Randall Cunningham was a journeyman. Oh, lord. We should only be blessed to have a 4x pro bowler, 4x all pro, UPI NFC player of the year, Pro bowl mvp in his 3rd year, 3x Bert Bell award winner, and comeback player of the year.

Randall Cunningham only had a QB rating of 90 or better twice in a 16 year NFL career.

Furthermore, he had a career rating of 81.5. Exceptional? Hardly.

Furthermore, he could have played in 256 NFL games. He played in 161, so he was either A) hurt a lot (journeyman) or B) not that good (which his numbers support) (journeyman). He only played in 62% of the possible games. Finally, he only started 66 games. That means he started 40% of the games he played in... Awful... and 25% of the total games he was eligible for...

So... where exactly is there anything pointing to him being anything beyond a journeyman during his NFL career?!? I certainly don't see it.

You have officially made yourself look even stupider than the forum believed possible.

False. I believe I just served you royally.

It's very tough to deny the weapons Rodgers has. The offensive talent stacks up well with just about any other team in the league (outside of QB). The OL is fine, and used as a scapegoat for a scrambling, skittish QB. Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight? Hardly. He looked as fast and powerful as ever last year.

Welker was not a very good player in Miami. He was used marginally. He obviously had potential that BB saw, but that does not equate to a very good player in his time there. 1 TD in 4 years in Miami. 12 Fumbles. Terrible.

Cunningham may have been great prior to coming to the NFL, but his NFL numbers aren't very good -- except when he was chucking the ball to Moss -- then they were a statistical anomaly and were quite stellar.

[Partial]

The problem is


Partial swore that the Packers would suck without Brett on Offense. Now that they don't suck, he's scrambling. He can't give in. He won't give in.

Never did I say they'd suck on offense. Any quarterback could drive the ball with the talent around Rodgers. Don't be a fool.

I would gladly give in if I actually believed Rodgers was a star. He's not yet. He hasn't shown any reason to believe he will be. If the QB is not a star, move on imo. Too many things have to go right to build a consistent winner without a star at QB.

[Partial]

The AFC East was not the toughest division in football last year. Look what the mediocre Dolphins did to that division. And yes, the Dolphins were mediocre. Parcells is good but even he doesn't get that result unless he is facing a weak schedule and his division rivals get hurt.

And everyone knew Welker had that ability in Miami, but he was in a run first offense as the third receiver with dreck for a passing game and clipboard holders for QBs. Going into his FA year, everyone knew a smart passing team was going hard after Welker. No one could cover him in the slot.

But I love how Brady gets credit for being very good with a top 1 WR corp and Rodgers gets average with a top 5 receiver corp.

Number 6 scoring offense and the QB is average. Its good to see our running game get some credit. They only thing that keeps this from being an all time wrong-headed argument is Rodgers relative inexperience. Even Rick Mirer looked presentable after one year.

I disagree with you 100% on the AFC East. Two best coaches in the NFL. Two of the best QBs, etc.

Number 6 scoring offense is above-average. I don't care how many points they run up against scrubs. They cannot score against decent teams. The image of people blaming the D in a game where the offense scores 16-20 points is ridic... Against the Vikes they scored one offensive touchdown yet people blame the D for losing the game despite the offense getting blown out...

The offense that I saw and remember and was a crystal clear reflection of our record is the one that couldn't score against Jax, Tenn, Minn or Tampa. Awful, awful, awful. Put a presentable offense on the field and we're 10-6 and in the playoffs instead of 6-10.

[SnakeLH2006]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

You have officially made yourself look even stupider than the forum believed possible.

That Ty is almost worth a siggy. But no, it's not possible, it's been proven again and again, but still funny as all hell to watch the 400 posts it takes Partial to try and defend/make a point. Can't believe I missed out on this thread. WOW. Good stuff.

-------------------------------------

Back to topic. We all gotta let up on the Youtube dude from the original post/topic....With this shitty economy and the with his terrible video forsight, how the hell is this dude (is it Partial in the video, methinks it may be?) gonna find a job now?

[channtheman]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

[SnakeLH2006]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

'

LOL. That's just too easy. It's more fun to skirt the topic and make innuendos. Trust the Snake. It's really fun.

[cpk1994]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

Yes it would. But that won't stop him. He'll just change the argument, which he has done at least 4 timnes in this thread alone.

[Fred's Slacks]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

[Scott Campbell]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

It's amazing that a player can grade out as well as he did with all the false starts. Like Wells, I think that if can't hold on to his starting position, he's a strong candidate to get cut. I'm just not sure we've got anybody on the roster that can challenge him.

[Administrator]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

Please keep your comments confined to the topic, and not directed to the poster specifically. thanks.

[Administrator]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

Yes it would. But that won't stop him. He'll just change the argument, which he has done at least 4 timnes in this thread alone.

This is also uncalled for. CPK, we've talked about this. Let it go. Permanently. Thanks.

[Patler]

Colledge had more false start penalties than Clifton in 2008 (4 to 3)

Clifton had four holding penalties, but two came in the first game, and seemed to set the fans attitudes for the season, deciding he was washed up. He had only two more holding calls the entire season. If you recall, there was some change in officiating that affected holding calls, particularly for tackles. I don't recall what the change was, but there was an article early in the season pointing out that holding calls were up considerably, and it was nailing tackles particularly, Clifton and others. It took a few weeks for the tackles to adapt (and for the officials to calm down).

Those were the only penalties Clifton had in 2008. Seven of them. Tony Moll in brief appearances also had 7, Colledge had the four false starts and two holds.

Clifton may not be the player he was, but 2008 wasn't as bad as some of you imply. He started out poorly, as did Tauscher, but came on as the season progressed, I thought. Both yielded a lot more "pressures" (25 and 23) than we were accustomed to seeing from them, and I suspect the QB change had a little to do with it.

I agree that Clifton may warrant watching, but I'm not overly concerned.

[Bretsky]

We should have worried along the OL, but I think Clifton might be the least of them

[Partial]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

I think he'll be fine. He's still extremely athletic. Was the pass protection of a problem of incompetent starters (who have been pro-bowlers the year before), or a new quarterback running all over the place making it very difficult to protect for him?

I tend to believe its the latter. I think Clifton will be fine. I definitely think there are much bigger concerns on the OL, and I still think without a doubt he's a top 10 LT.