Do you believe in a Higher power?

[MJZiggy]

Well I'm a believer. To my knowledge, the existance of a God has never been scientifically proven as of late. However the the power of prayer has been proven. Studies have been done in hospitals on patients with identical illnesses. One patient has people praying for them, the other does not. Go ahead and guess which patient recovers on the most consistant basis.

That's what I was talking about before. The thing that I wonder about, though is they did this research, and it didn't matter who the patient prayed to or what religion said pationt was, the result was the same. Makes me wonder...

[woodbuck27]

Well I'm a believer. To my knowledge, the existance of a God has never been scientifically proven as of late. However the the power of prayer has been proven. Studies have been done in hospitals on patients with identical illnesses. One patient has people praying for them, the other does not. Go ahead and guess which patient recovers on the most consistant basis.

That's what I was talking about before. The thing that I wonder about, though is they did this research, and it didn't matter who the patient prayed to or what religion said pationt was, the result was the same. Makes me wonder...

MJ:

I turn your attention to the question:

Of a Higher Power and what we as individuals believe regarding the existence of such?

Isn't it wonderful that as members of a Forum we can examine so many useful issues/topics. To learn as a group of people, as long as we remain open minded?

[justanotherpackfan]

Here's the gemstone thing, check it out. http://www.extremeprophetic.com/vide...WebcastLOW.wmv

[Fosco33]

Well I'm a believer. To my knowledge, the existance of a God has never been scientifically proven as of late. However the the power of prayer has been proven. Studies have been done in hospitals on patients with identical illnesses. One patient has people praying for them, the other does not. Go ahead and guess which patient recovers on the most consistant basis.

That's what I was talking about before. The thing that I wonder about, though is they did this research, and it didn't matter who the patient prayed to or what religion said pationt was, the result was the same. Makes me wonder...

Not that it matters or should change anyone's belief - but the study you referenced came out earlier this year and showed a negative correlation for those people that were prayed for... by the religious group trying to prove that prayer helps heart surgery patients... I'll find the link and edit this post later.

[MJZiggy]

I remember that study as well, but I didn't think it was a negative effect, I thought it didn't affect patients at all. I would love to see that study redone, though as the participant patients and "prayers" were not acquainted with one another. I kinda wonder if that makes a difference.

[Fosco33]

I remember that study as well, but I didn't think it was a negative effect, I thought it didn't affect patients at all. I would love to see that study redone, though as the participant patients and "prayers" were not acquainted with one another. I kinda wonder if that makes a difference.

Yeah, there's always questions on the study methodology. I say the power of the human mind is severly untapped. Doctors often agree that patients who have 'the will' to survive often recover faster from injuries (like spinal or brain). My take - prayer for someone else (that's known by the patient) gives them more self confidence. People who pray for themselves are being positive - which is hard to see as a bad thing.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0403/p13s02-lire.html

Highlights:

The Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), published online March 30 by the American Heart Journal, showed no positive effect from the use of third-party intercessory prayer on behalf of patients undergoing a specific type of heart surgery at six medical centers around the United States when compared with a control group who were not prayed for as part of the study.

Another unexpected result: Patients who knew they were being prayed for had somewhat more medical complications than another group who also had received prayer but were uncertain as to whether they had or not. Researchers had expected the reverse outcome.

STEP aimed to provide more accurate results than four previous trials that involved cardiac patients, the authors said. The results of those trials were mixed: Two found a beneficial effect of prayer; two found no benefit. The earlier studies were also criticized for having design flaws, the authors said.

But the study itself is unlikely to satisfy those who question whether the effects of prayer can be measured using conventional scientific testing. They ask: How do you define what constitutes a prayer? Are all forms of prayer equally effective? How do you design a "dose" of prayer that is the same for each patient? And how do you rule out the effects of the patients' own prayers or prayers from others not involved in the study on behalf of the patient?

About 95 percent of all the STEP participants - including a control group that was not prayed for as part of the study - said that they expected friends, relatives, or members of their religious institutions to be praying for them. About two-thirds strongly agreed with the statement, "I believe in spiritual healing."

The authors were careful to point out the limited conclusions that could be drawn from their study. "Private or family prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, and the results of this study do not challenge this belief," the authors wrote. "Our study focused only on intercessory prayer as provided in this trial and was never intended to and cannot address a large number of religious questions, such as whether God exists, whether God answers intercessory prayers, or whether prayers from one religious group work in the same way as prayers from other groups."

[Murphy37]

Interesting, I don't think that's the same study I read about. My mother is very religous, and is always mailing me magazine articles about religion, prayer etc. The article I read had results that heavily favored the power of prayer. I'll have to ask my dear mother what magazine she clipped it from.
Is there a God? How would Reggie answer?

[MJZiggy]

Murphy, you're probably thinking of the first study that Fosco and I were talking about where the patients studied prayed on their own. That one did have a strong correlation between prayer and healing, but like I mentioned, the religion of the patient did not affect the result (meaning that Christians got no more benefit from prayer than Buddhists got from meditation or anyone else got from their prayers.) I had read an article on the study that Fosco just posted, but the article I remember did not mention a negative correlation, rather it mentioned no correlation at all meaning that it should not have mattered at all whether a congregation in Texas was praying for the recovery of a patient that was unaware of that congregation's efforts. The negative result is rather surprising, unless perhaps the patients who knew about it were uncomfortable with the idea of a bunch of strangers praying over their gall bladders.