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Thread: Jeff-Pash-reacts-to-DeMaurice-Smiths-criticism-of-NFLs-last-offer

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    Jeff-Pash-reacts-to-DeMaurice-Smiths-criticism-of-NFLs-last-offer


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    Anti Homer Rat HOFer Bretsky's Avatar
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    confused as I thought you were the far side hater of the owners
    LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?

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    Creepy Rat HOFer SkinBasket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeMaurice Smith
    the worst deal in the history of professional sports
    So what's worse? Slavery or the worst deal in the history of professional sports? Apparently the worst deal in the history of professional sports, according to Smith.

    The kind of childish, idiotic statements being made by the players and their "representatives" only underscore how impossible negotiation with them is by reasonable, able-minded, educated people. It must have been like talking to monkeys.
    "You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial

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    Red Devil Rat HOFer gbgary's Avatar
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    ...and everytime someone from the nfl makes a statement about what was offered they're called liars. don't know what to believe.

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    CutlerquitRat HOFer
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    What is the players proposal?
    Swede: My expertise in this area is extensive. The essential difference between a "battleship" and an "aircraft carrier" is that an aircraft carrier requires five direct hits to sink, but it takes only four direct hits to sink a battleship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Oday View Post
    What is the players proposal?
    litigation

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    Obscure Rat HOFer Lurker64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaloha View Post
    litigation
    Thank you for making the owner's case for them. The NFL's charge before the NLRB is that union bargained in bad faith all along, with no actual interest in getting a deal done and instead preferring litigation. If the NLRB agrees with you, this will potentially undo the NFL's decertification and put the union in a significantly disadvantageous position, staring up at a lockout that they have no recourse to end beyond bargaining.
    </delurk>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker64 View Post
    Thank you for making the owner's case for them. The NFL's charge before the NLRB is that union bargained in bad faith all along, with no actual interest in getting a deal done and instead preferring litigation. If the NLRB agrees with you, this will potentially undo the NFL's decertification and put the union in a significantly disadvantageous position, staring up at a lockout that they have no recourse to end beyond bargaining.
    Its no different than the owner's always wanting a lockout. Both sides followed through. Please do not respond with blah blah. Mahalo.

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    Captain Rat HOFer Smidgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Oday View Post
    What is the players proposal?
    Interesting question to which I haven't yet heard an answer. In my opinion, the player's proposal is probably "status quo" to the last deal (not the last year). Everyone knows the owners opted out because they thought the deal favored the players too much. So I would imagine the players are using the last deal as their starting point. Now, since they haven't really seemed to counter-propose anything, I don't think their position has changed.
    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

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    Anti Homer Rat HOFer Bretsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker64 View Post
    Thank you for making the owner's case for them. The NFL's charge before the NLRB is that union bargained in bad faith all along, with no actual interest in getting a deal done and instead preferring litigation. If the NLRB agrees with you, this will potentially undo the NFL's decertification and put the union in a significantly disadvantageous position, staring up at a lockout that they have no recourse to end beyond bargaining.

    FIVE CLAP WINNER POST IMO
    LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bretsky View Post
    FIVE CLAP WINNER POST IMO
    a member of the echo chamber chimes in.

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    Obscure Rat HOFer Lurker64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaloha View Post
    Its no different than the owner's always wanting a lockout. Both sides followed through.
    The key distinction is that from the NLRB's perspective, lockouts are legitimate. They're identical to strikes, except they're perpetrated by management and not labor. But there's nothing a priori unacceptable about a lockout, since one can always be avoided (and ended) by negotiating and it's the NLRB's goal to encourage such. The NLRB, however, has a vested interest in preventing sham-decertification-coupled-with-lawsuit as a negotiating practice since it is an inherently unfair negotiating strategy (and it ties up federal courts with an issue that should really just be resolved in a board room).

    In principle, if a union should be allowed to strike then management should be allowed to lock out labor. If one isn't allowable, then the other shouldn't be either.
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    You are correct under Pash's opinion, "A lockout is accepted practice under labor law, and that collective bargaining, rather than litigation, remains the best way to settle the sides' differences."

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    Red Devil Rat HOFer gbgary's Avatar
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    here is a copy of the commish's letter...

    http://a.espncdn.com/media/pdf/11031..._3_17_2011.pdf

    here is a copy of the player's response to it...

    http://www.nfllockout.com/2011/03/19...ond/#more-1245

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbgary View Post
    here is a copy of the commish's letter...

    http://a.espncdn.com/media/pdf/11031..._3_17_2011.pdf

    here is a copy of the player's response to it...

    http://www.nfllockout.com/2011/03/19...ond/#more-1245
    I heard about this on espn radio with John Clayton and Andrew Brandt. Brandt contends the owner's latest "proposal" are the "easy give" items in terms of pension and player safety. Revenue split will always remain the key and most contentious issue.

    Currently only counsel from each side can negotiate until the April 6 hearing. Brandt stated litigation speeds up the process as opposed to negotiation only. According to Brandt

    Lockout illegal -- 2010 contract remains and the 2011 season can start. Negotiations concurrently restart for a new CBA . Thank goodness Gov. Walker is involved.
    Lockout legal -- Negotiations for a new CBA can resume ASAP.

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    Indenial Rat HOFer bobblehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker64 View Post
    Thank you for making the owner's case for them. The NFL's charge before the NLRB is that union bargained in bad faith all along, with no actual interest in getting a deal done and instead preferring litigation. If the NLRB agrees with you, this will potentially undo the NFL's decertification and put the union in a significantly disadvantageous position, staring up at a lockout that they have no recourse to end beyond bargaining.
    THE PARTY OF NO!!!!
    I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.

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    More stuff from Brandt who studied the "proposal." The salary cap increase is paid to pensions -- not to current player salaries. TV revenue in several years is scheduled to increase from $4 billion to $8 billion. Future proposed salary caps are unreflective of this increased TV revenue.

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    Obscure Rat HOFer Lurker64's Avatar
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    From what I've been able to glean, the kerfuffle over the salary cap proposed last friday is a microcosm of the whole mess.

    So the league initially proposes a salary cap structure, and the players propose a more generous one. Last friday, the league says essentially "okay, well... what about this number in the middle?" and what the league presented did not address how the cap might grow if the game grows beyond projections. So instead of asking "well, we might be able to work with that provided the cap increases x% of the total money the league makes beyond projections" the NFLPA presumed that the league was saying "you get none of any money above and beyond projections" and storms out in a huff to file a lawsuit.

    I've honestly never seen two groups of adult men, with highly paid lawyers on staff to advise them, less capable of actually communicating with each other.
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    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    The players' response had the language and stance of a temper tantrum. "You didn't address this and this and this." Well, make a counter offer. For example, what if Moodys is wrong? What is your offer for percentage share of revenue.

    If anyone knows of a responsible counter-offer that the players made, I'd appreciate the link. Otherwise, I have to believe those who said the players were interested in forcing litigation from the start.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by mraynrand View Post
    The players' response had the language and stance of a temper tantrum. "You didn't address this and this and this." Well, make a counter offer. For example, what if Moodys is wrong? What is your offer for percentage share of revenue.

    If anyone knows of a responsible counter-offer that the players made, I'd appreciate the link. Otherwise, I have to believe those who said the players were interested in forcing litigation from the start.
    Players always wanted litigation since according to Brandt it speeds up the negotiating process. Again its no different than the owners always wanting a lock-out to prevent the 2010 contract being enforced for the 2011 season. Show me the money!

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