This man can hit ! LB Vontaze Burfict...The Meanest Man in College.

[woodbuck27]

But you can't assess him more deservedly, Wood. None of us can. You'd have to be an actual scout, watch hours and hours of film, talk to the guy's coaches, talk to friends and acquantances, and talk to the guy himself. You'd have to watch him at the combine or at his pro day, having also watched dozens and dozens of other guys playing the same position. You'd have to talk with other scouts from other regions and compare notes.

That's why Thompson - and the Ravens scout - are correct when they say most of us, including the so-called experts like Mike MayCock or SMell Pipejob, don't know a damn thing about how players are actually assessed.

Fritz:

I've been thinking about this post since I first read it. It took me to school. Thanks.

[pbmax]

This is worth a look on Burfict: http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...his-thing.html

That video of him versus Wisconsin is a good example of why the highlight videos can be misleading.

[woodbuck27]

This is worth a look on Burfict: http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...his-thing.html

Thanks Lurker64...this is a good find.

http://brophyfootball.blogspot.ca/20...his-thing.html

"The definition of production at the position is directly relational to the player’s competency in fundamentals (position, leverage, tackling, hustle, etc). The player here (#7 - Vontaze Burfict) routinely stays blocked, misses tackles, fails to anticipate routes as they develop around him, and worst of all, just flat out gives up if he’s not immediately around the ball." brophyfootball.blogspot.ca

"If we’re not judging players (in The Draft or on the field) for what they can produce,

then we’re just bullshitting ourselves….." brophyfootball.blogspot.ca

So Packerrats watch this video. see what you discover. Do you 'simply' believe the author? What is your opinion?

Give Mr. Vontaze Burfict 'a fair shake'. Is he blocked out of plays? Yes he is and that's the job of the Wisconsin Badgers offense 'to target this inside LBer'. Is it unusual to be blocked?

Is he always running 'a high motor'even when he's not where the ball is? No ! Does he knows when to pace himself. He's not killing himself when he likely can't make a difference. Is that a serious fault considering the role he must play for his defense?

The question I ask myself as I view this video is whether he's generally in the action..'in the game' Vs just taking up space or lloooking lost on the field? Does he try to and 'in fact' make plays? Does he block running lanes and make solo and assisted tackles? Does he ever put bressure on the QB or penetrate the offensive backfield?

Do you 'see no merit' in ever considering Vontaze Burfict as a contributor to our teams defense based in what you observe viewing this video? I'll warn you this video covers the entire Badgers Vs Sun Devils game and it's length is 30:03.

I'm stil assessing it to make up my mind if the autor of the BLOG is serious or pulling my leg. That's just the kind of fellow I am. My own person. Careful ...as I determine a position that's 'just' my own.

[woodbuck27]

That video of him versus Wisconsin is a good example of why the highlight videos can be misleading.

pbmax...based on what you see in this video does Vontaze Burfict look like a terrible choice as an ILB prospect? I'm not putting you on 'the spot here'. I'm just interested in what your analysis is of him overall in this game?

[pbmax]

pbmax...based on what you see in this video does Vontaze Burfict look like a terrible choice as an ILB prospect? I'm not putting you on 'the spot here'. I'm just interested in what your analysis is of him overall in this game?

I have a history of being completely incorrect in trying to judge who will be able to make the leap to the pros. So take this with a grain of salt.

Play after play he is slow to get out of his stance (slower than other backers) and then waltzes into his gap. He does engage blockers, but only long enough to see where the RB is going. If the running back heads to a different gap, he stops and walks around. I did not see enough coverage to make any kind of guess. A middle linebacker who offers no assistance or pursuit is pretty useless. I don't remember enough about the game to know whether this tape is sequential or a lowlights package.

In terms more familiar to me, he looks like the kid who declares that he will be the free safety when you play a game of pickup football. 5 on 5 or 7 on 7, this guy decides he wants to free lance and leave a player uncovered. He is uninterested in actually playing to help the team win, he wants to deliver a kill shot somewhere, headed downhill, and is putting that agenda ahead of the team.

I have seen this kid twice, so nothing here can be taken as authoritative. But the terms uninterested and selfish do come to mind.

[woodbuck27]

I have a history of being completely incorrect in trying to judge who will be able to make the leap to the pros. So take this with a grain of salt.

Play after play he is slow to get out of his stance (slower than other backers) and then waltzes into his gap. He does engage blockers, but only long enough to see where the RB is going. If the running back heads to a different gap, he stops and walks around. I did not see enough coverage to make any kind of guess. A middle linebacker who offers no assistance or pursuit is pretty useless. I don't remember enough about the game to know whether this tape is sequential or a lowlights package.

In terms more familiar to me, he looks like the kid who declares that he will be the free safety when you play a game of pickup football. 5 on 5 or 7 on 7, this guy decides he wants to free lance and leave a player uncovered. He is uninterested in actually playing to help the team win, he wants to deliver a kill shot somewhere, headed downhill, and is putting that agenda ahead of the team.

I have seen this kid twice, so nothing here can be taken as authoritative. But the terms uninterested and selfish do come to mind.

Thanks. I'm cautious in making up my mind but I will be back on this. I did notice he seems a bit one tracked minded and that he can come in a bit late on some plays....tackles. I question his intelligence as his play translates to that.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ate-sun-devils

2011 Arizona State Sun Devils Schedule

They started out 5-1 and 6-2 and lost their last four games to finish the 2011 season at 6-6.

How did ILB Vontaze Burfict contribute to those four end of season loss's?

By the way that game Vs the Wisconsin Badgers came on 18 Sept. 2010. RECAP and Box Score for that 20-19 Badger win:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610275

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=302610275

[Deputy Nutz]

There have only been a few players in the NFL that were able to free lance on defense in the NFL, Lawrence Taylor, and Primetime Sanders. I don't think I would but Burfict in that class.

[3irty1]

His workout numbers are absolutely pathetic:
40: 5.09
Vert: 30
Broad: 8'08"
SS: 4.56
3C: 7.51

Even if these numbers didn't suck, I watched all the videos in this thread and still haven't seen him in coverage. I'd like to have him on the practice squad as it sounds like a lot of his wow moments come in practice, but I can't believe that he is physically capable of being a 3 down linebacker. His skill set would seem to limit him to a role like Brady Poppinga had in the 4-3 or AJ hawk has in the current 3-4. Kind of a Full-back of the defense as it seems like taking on blockers is what he does best. If he can do anything on special teams then perhaps he'd be that intimidating practice player that lights a fire under AJ Hawk.

[Lurker64]

If he can do anything on special teams then perhaps he'd be that intimidating practice player that lights a fire under AJ Hawk.

The problem with that is that I don't think he's the sort of player that's going to light a fire under anybody, since "motivation" is near the top of his list of issues. He's more a player that you have to actively work to set a fire under him and if he's a late round pick relegated to a backup role, he'll probably just sulk.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.pac-12.org/portals/7/imag...u.htm#team.def

2011 SEASON ... Overall Defensive Statistics NOTE: ILB Vontaze Burfict was second on this team in tackles inspite of limited game action according to reports.

Compare to the 2010 Season when Vontaze Burfict led his team in tackles... See Below please.

2010 SEASON ...ARIZONA ... STATE DEFENSIVE STAT'S:

http://www.pac-12.org/portals/7/imag...U.HTM#team.def

Pac-10 Football Arizona State Overall Defensive Statistics (Through games of Jan 16, 2011)

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...cold-shoulder/

Burfict gets the cold shoulder

Posted by Mike Florio on April 15, 2012, 1:54 PM EDT

" There are not-so-subtle signs of piling on, however. For example, Walters regards as significant the notion that friends caution against calling or texting Burfict before 10:00 a.m., because he will still be asleep. Anyone with a son or nephew in the range of 15 to 25 will readily describe such behavior as “normal.” ..........

And former Arizona State teammate Brandon Magee raves about Burfict. “He knows he is going to be a starter in the NFL,” Magee said, adding that Burfict plays with a lot of passion and despises losing. “Tez is going to prove everybody wrong.”

The bar will be low and the ceiling will be high, and there’s a chance that the negativity will give Burfict precisely the wake-up call that he needs in order to turn his career around." Article

[Guiness]

pbmax...based on what you see in this video does Vontaze Burfict look like a terrible choice as an ILB prospect? I'm not putting you on 'the spot here'. I'm just interested in what your analysis is of him overall in this game?

My analysis is similar to pbmax's. I don't think it's a matter of him 'pacing himself' but just being lazy and unmotivated when he's not in the thick of it. How is he going to behave when he has to drop into coverage? Is he going to be like a defensive version of Moss, figuring the ball isn't coming his way so he can get away with a half effort? In college, probably. In the pros, any QB will see that, and his 3rd string TE will eat him alive.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Badgers OL is the closest thing you're going to find to a NFL OL in college. The multiple draft picks from the line year after year support this fact.

So the question is if Burfict cannot handle the Badgers OL, how is he supposed to handle an actual NFL OL? Is he going to get too frustrated by getting controlled by the OL and simply start giving less effort as is a knock on him? The thought that if the play is not at him he gives up to save energy is poppycock. Either you hustle or you don't. Even the guys the Packers have at the other OLB to Clay don't give up on plays. If a player gets lazy on the NFL field, he'll be very likely to be lazy on the home couch come Sunday afternoon real quick.

I question his mental toughness. The notes of giving up on plays, blaming others for your shortcomings, committing stupid personal foul penalties all of which have been documented about this guy lead me to the conclusion he's mentally weak as these are glaring symptoms of that.

Someone else can take a flyer on him, I personally don't want the Packers to have any part of this guy.

[woodbuck27]

My analysis is similar to pbmax's. I don't think it's a matter of him 'pacing himself' but just being lazy and unmotivated when he's not in the thick of it. How is he going to behave when he has to drop into coverage? Is he going to be like a defensive version of Moss, figuring the ball isn't coming his way so he can get away with a half effort? In college, probably. In the pros, any QB will see that, and his 3rd string TE will eat him alive.

I don't see a lick of coverage skils but in that Wisconsin game he certainjly flashes a lot of hussel and determination.

I looked at that video carefully and when 'the Wisconsin Badgers' take the lead at about the 23 minute mark of the video... Vontaze Burfict is trap blocked outside superbly (by I think it was #54) as the runner takes it inside of this solid block to go house.

Did he look bad on that play? I see it as he was the victim of a terrific block.

Yes he takes plays off but alot of those plays are to the outside of the field. He also shows loads of hussel and a strong ability to tackle. He makes alot of terrific tackles in that 30 minute video. He led his team in tackles that season. He was showing leadership in 2010. his team was off like a grey hound last season at 5-1 and 6-2 and the roof caved in with the Arizona State Sun Devils finishing with four loss's.

Was the fact (maybe?) that for some reason Vontaze Burfict had lost favour with his coach's a factor in that collapse? Can that collapse be blamed on Vontaze Burfict?

Is the hype on this player more overkill then real? That's the question I'm trying to see answered in this thread.

He will NOT be in my MOCK. That decision bugs me somehow. I feel that he's a risk just reading all the negative hype.

What's the TRUTH?

[ND72]

Mayock just called Burfict "The most undraftable kid"

[woodbuck27]

Mayock just called Burfict "The most undraftable kid"

He'll be in someone's camp.

[Guiness]

He'll be in someone's camp.

No doubt he'll be in a camp. But what a fall, unthinkable to go from probable first rounder to possible UDFA! What happened to that kid?

Myself, I can't see him going undrafted - someone will take a Clarett style shot at him, although I doubt it will be in the third round this time - 5th seems likely.

edit: I decided to have a peek at Clarett's Wiki page to see what he's been up to since getting cut by Denver. All I can say is wow, I had no idea.

[woodbuck27]

No doubt he'll be in a camp. But what a fall, unthinkable to go from probable first rounder to possible UDFA! What happened to that kid?

Myself, I can't see him going undrafted - someone will take a Clarett style shot at him, although I doubt it will be in the third round this time - 5th seems likely.

edit: I decided to have a peek at Clarett's Wiki page to see what he's been up to since getting cut by Denver. All I can say is wow, I had no idea.

Yes Guiness this 'fall from grace' and this young man is interesting. If he suffered an onset of 'mentle illness' it would add up and if that's the case he cannot be judged. He also shouldn't be drafted with alot of expectation.

** Maurice Clarett. Havn't thought of that fella for some time. I'll follow up this post with a look see. Maybe he's running a successful entrepreneurial venture. Your an NFL GM and get high on a fella like him............ and WHAM!


It's all about reduced risk.

** This fella keeps on chugging. He was back to football in 2010:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Clarett

Omaha Nighthawks and Maurice Clarett

"On August 30, 2010, the Omaha Nighthawks of the United Football League signed Clarett. On October 1, 2010 he played his first meaningful game of any sort in eight years, rushing for 12 yards on 5 attempts against the Sacramento Mountain Lions. As the Nighthawks' #2 running back, Clarett finished the season with 154 yards on the ground on 37 attempts and a touchdown. He also caught 12 passes for 98 yards, and returned one kickoff for 13 yards." Fr. Wikipedia

"Understand my struggle so you can respect my hustle. I am never coming back here, believe that. Never, I am cool on this. It is first-class living from the day I get out. I WILL NEVER SETTLE FOR LESS, EVER AGAIN. That goes for communication, personal relationships, housing, education, friendships, and travel arrangements. Everything. I have the fire in my eyes" Maurice Clarette from prison

You know ........... it's sad.

[Scott Campbell]

If he suffered an onset of 'mentle illness' it would add up and if that's the case he cannot be judged.

Yes he can.

People don't get a free pass for their crappy behavior just because they're mentally ill Woody.