The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[mraynrand]

*Great moment in judicial non-understanding over this issue. In a lawsuit over the Redskin nickname that was ultimately lost by the plaintiffs, the ruling judge held as fact that it could not be proven that a plurality or majority of Indigenous People in the area felt disrespected over the name. He concluded that such information was a practical impossibility and that the polling data that the plaintiff had submitted was just a poll of certain people and couldn't possibly, correctly convey the sentiment of the whole population.

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

[pbmax]

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

I do not recall the basis the judge used to dismiss or find in favor of the defendant. My criteria are just my criteria, not from that case.

But I find the idea of random sample polling (correctly done) as not representative of the larger whole to be an attack on reason in general.

[mraynrand]

I do not recall the basis the judge used to dismiss or find in favor of the defendant. My criteria are just my criteria, not from that case.

But I find the idea of random sample polling (correctly done) as not representative of the larger whole to be an attack on reason in general.

I agree with the second, and as to the first, I meant what I gleaned to be your criteria, and what I think should be the criteria generally

[pbmax]

I agree with the second, and as to the first, I meant what I gleaned to be your criteria, and what I think should be the criteria generally

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available. Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

[KYPack]

I heard a story that the DC organization has already copyrighted the name "Buckskins".

That way they could keep their copyright on the shortened "Skins" nickname.

[mraynrand]

I heard a story that the DC organization has already copyrighted the name "Buckskins".

That way they could keep their copyright on the shortened "Skins" nickname.

Sheepskins, Potatoskins, Thinskins (you could nickname them the asshats, and get banned), Rednoses, Redrums, Redinks, Redlines.....

[mraynrand]

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available.

I recall Marquette changing their name. I also remember back in the day, you would go to the game and a college kid would come out at halftime and do an authentic Indian dance. The thing was legit, but I guess it aroused the ire of the sensitive types. Ironic thing was that just a generation later I recall my kindergarten kid (In Madison, no less) going to an authentic Indian dance celebrating Native American Heritage and it was almost exactly the same thing, except that it was promoted for a week on NPR prior to the field trip. I guess if it's in the name of Capitalism it's evil and demeaning, but in the name of celebrating diversity, it's great. Context, context...

Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

that's pretty good parsing and it makes sense

[pbmax]

I recall Marquette changing their name. I also remember back in the day, you would go to the game and a college kid would come out at halftime and do an authentic Indian dance. The thing was legit, but I guess it aroused the ire of the sensitive types. Ironic thing was that just a generation later I recall my kindergarten kid (In Madison, no less) going to an authentic Indian dance celebrating Native American Heritage and it was almost exactly the same thing, except that it was promoted for a week on NPR prior to the field trip. I guess if it's in the name of Capitalism it's evil and demeaning, but in the name of celebrating diversity, it's great. Context, context...

That is the unfortunate thing about time and distance. If Marquette had been a little more careful earlier, perhaps either sought sanction or invited the tribes to participate with the kid/mascot, I think it could have been avoided.

No one can convince me that a school in Milwaukee (named Marquette for God's sake) and in a State that was/is home to several tribes could not have found classes, performances and real world interaction/internships/scholarships/etc that incorporated actual Indigenous Culture with the school that would have made sticking with Warriors possible.

And I think the school would have benefitted far more than the Tribes in a way that had nothing to do with a kid dressed up at halftime.

But I am an incorrigible optimist.

[swede]

That is the unfortunate thing about time and distance. If Marquette had been a little more careful earlier, perhaps either sought sanction or invited the tribes to participate with the kid/mascot, I think it could have been avoided.

No one can convince me that a school in Milwaukee (named Marquette for God's sake) and in a State that was/is home to several tribes could not have found classes, performances and real world interaction/internships/scholarships/etc that incorporated actual Indigenous Culture with the school that would have made sticking with Warriors possible.

And I think the school would have benefitted far more than the Tribes in a way that had nothing to do with a kid dressed up at halftime.

But I am an incorrigible optimist.

The whole point of Marquette changing their name was liberal scraping. It wouldn't have been any fun for them if it was a pragmatic decision addressing an actual grievance. It isn't problem-solving or addressing a real issue. Once upon a time the name was selected because it meant something fierce and noble. The name was dropped because the action had political meaning.

[Pugger]

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

[pbmax]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Yes. I wonder what the difference here is between the Seminoles and the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota. At one point, they school had at least a business relationship with the tribe and sanction with their arena or perhaps a sponsorship for a gate. But apparently something was different here than in Florida because they are being forced to change (last I heard) and the Seminoles are not.

[Fritz]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

[pbmax]

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

They would never do it, but the Potato logo would be fantastic.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

The Punchin' Potowatamis.

You just made 'my Lady' Mae laugh Fritz. Mae says that she's 'a lover' not a fighter.

Also...that's spelled Potawatomi. Mae's origin is one half Potawatomi (Maternal); the other half French-Quebecois (Paternal).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potawatomi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebecois