The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[MJZiggy]

Holy shitty genetic speculation batman! God only knows the advocates don't want an honest discussion about genetic determinism versus free will, but this? Even Margaret Sanger wouldn't swallow this hogwash.

Then explain again how a trait that is not hereditary, found in people who most often do not reproduce (and among those who do, the trait is not necessarily passed on) is steadily present in the general population. If you try to tell me that people choose it, thus choosing a life of being discriminated against, beaten and in some cultures legally murdered, you will have to explain to me why someone would make that choice--particularly since so many straight men have declared to me that other men are gross and therefore gays couldn't possibly be attracted to them.

[woodbuck27]

(Credible means believable. They are synonyms.)

Excuse me....I'll try again:

If a person gives an account of what he claims another person said (in any setting):

It's not believable (ceredible).

While something he tells us about himself is believable (credible)?

Is it a normal course of living to mistrust everything and everyone; with the exception depended on the source?

!!! PLEASE IGNORE THIS !!!

That question is off topic and delves into what is deemed truthful or not.

[Guiness]

Then explain again how a trait that is not hereditary, found in people who most often do not reproduce (and among those who do, the trait is not necessarily passed on) is steadily present in the general population. If you try to tell me that people choose it, thus choosing a life of being discriminated against, beaten and in some cultures legally murdered, you will have to explain to me why someone would make that choice--particularly since so many straight men have declared to me that other men are gross and therefore gays couldn't possibly be attracted to them.

The bigger issue I have is that 10% number...baseless speculation as far as anything I've ever seen, it's a number that seems to get thrown out there when it's needed. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

I know some people that are openly gay, and I'm sure there are others I know that are, but I'm not aware of it. Would I pretend to be able to put a percentage on it? No chance.

[woodbuck27]

The bigger issue I have is that 10% number...baseless speculation as far as anything I've ever seen, it's a number that seems to get thrown out there when it's needed. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

I know some people that are openly gay, and I'm sure there are others I know that are, but I'm not aware of it. Would I pretend to be able to put a percentage on it? No chance.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what...ation-gay.aspx

October 8, 2002

What Percentage of the Population Is Gay?

by Jennifer Robison, Contributing Editor

[Harlan Huckleby]

i think its all about the fear that some people have that a group of gays are gonna someday bust through their front door and all start butt fucking each other in the middle of the family room while their family is trying to have their nightly bible study

Doesn't help that this is a typical plot line in gay porn.

Why can't they just stick to pizza delivery guys interrupting lonely people taking a shower?

[Harlan Huckleby]

The bigger issue I have is that 10% number...baseless speculation as far as anything

If you count college women, that figure might be 20%

[woodbuck27]

Nope, I was thinking of Belichick. He started as a ST coach.

Yes throughout the late 1970's and until 1984 Bill Belichick worked as a ST's Coach amongst other duties in the Detroit Lions, Denver Broncos and NY GIANTS Organizations; until he became DC with the GIANTS 1985-90, and from there Please see the LINK below for more on this remarkable Head Coach:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Be...hing_positions

[woodbuck27]

Unless Kluwe has Ryan Braun syndrome it is hard to imagine him inventing such a specific narrative and attributing to a specific person, in front of alleged witnesses no less, if it didn't really happen. Could this be the vendetta of a former player against a coach? Sure, but given the detailed recollection it seems unlikely.

I'm going to tie this other source to your LINK hoosire:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...we-allegations


Eye On Football

Vikings to conduct independent review of Chris Kluwe allegations

By John Breech | CBSSports.com ... January 3, 2014 4:01 pm ET

Comment woodbuck27:

Talk about a rush to put out a fire. Such a big deal when likely in the end 'spit' would have done just fine.

[mraynrand]

Then explain again how a trait that is not hereditary, found in people who most often do not reproduce (and among those who do, the trait is not necessarily passed on) is steadily present in the general population. If you try to tell me that people choose it, thus choosing a life of being discriminated against, beaten and in some cultures legally murdered, you will have to explain to me why someone would make that choice--particularly since so many straight men have declared to me that other men are gross and therefore gays couldn't possibly be attracted to them.

Hope I didn't piss ya off too much Zig. You might be surprised how many genetics experts just make crap up about all this.

A plausible evolutionary explanation is that ostensible homosexual attraction is a linked trait to something else that is absolutely essential for survival, say sexual attraction in general. The other possibility is that it is completely epigenetic, meaning it is not encoded genetically, but that the expression of genes that give the propensity for same sex attraction is triggered by environmental factors (those could be anything but it's a really fanciful way of saying "I don't know what causes the predisposition")

As far as I can tell there are three causes of apparent homosexual behavior, based on the simple fact that humans are a two sex species:

1) intersexual development: homo sapiens either develop as male or female, but sometimes develop intersexual traits, and sometimes that's subtle, so that the person is more or less indistinguishable as a specific sex. So someone who looks male may be tilted toward female development and someone female tilted toward male development, etc. So the 'same sex' attraction that intersexuals feel is perfectly natural
2) Trauma - there are all sorts of developmental and experiential trauma that can lead to ego-identity confusion and/or make a person of one sex less attracted to the other sex, and gravitate towards the same sex. Most people probably know a divorced woman who is now gay as a result of an abusive husband, for example. Children who have parents with confused sexual roles can also be affected (Sorry, that's probably not the correct way to say that).
3) Experimentation - This is more common in women than men, but people do get influenced by society - sometimes accidentally and harmlessly and sometimes dangerously and purposefully- to 'explore their sexuality,' and they do just that, without having any homosexual inclination at all.

Ultimately though, in any of the cases, the decision to express any of these feelings in a sexual way, regardless of their genesis, is a voluntary act, presumably by agents with free will, with all the implications that entails.

[smuggler]

Kerry Rhodes being gay isn't the problem. It's that he sexually harasses every single one of his teammates. lol

[Guiness]

If you count college women, that figure might be 20%

Have that many wet dreams, do you?

[mraynrand]

Vikings to conduct independent review of Chris Kluwe allegations

That's a good idea; absolutely should include an outside source to be objective and credible

[Guiness]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what...ation-gay.aspx

October 8, 2002

What Percentage of the Population Is Gay?

by Jennifer Robison, Contributing Editor

Lots of statistics in that article. Best line from TFA

In fact, roughly a quarter of the public thinks more than 25% of men and 25% of women are homosexual.

I read that more than a few times, and I'm not sure just what it is trying to say.

What does it matter what 25% of the population thinks of the rest of the population's sexuality?

[mraynrand]

Why can't they just stick to pizza delivery guys interrupting lonely people taking a shower?

It's good to know you take showers, but do you use soap?

[Tony Oday]

So can we move this thread? It isnt football anymore.

[mraynrand]

What does it matter what 25% of the population thinks of the rest of the population's sexuality?

I think it's a measure of cultural saturation of the gay 'issue' (for lack of a better word). Like Skin was saying, the gay message is everywhere, and it's almost all roses and no thorns (easy, Harlan)

[smuggler]

I mean, their new punter outperformed his numbers from last year in every way. So...

[pbmax]

I mean, their new punter outperformed his numbers from last year in every way. So...

True, and you would hope for that if you took him in the fifth and he wasn't BJ Sander.

The question, unanswerable unless someone put it in writing, is why choose that year to use a fifth pick on a punter instead of a QB, LB or CB?

Yes, they saved cap money, but if not in cap danger was it worth losing to opportunity to get a different player? For punters, fifth is a pretty glitzy round, but its not unheard of and the Vikings might operate that way.

More easily answerable might be the quotes ascribed to the coach. The kicker has backed his coach's character and said he never heard the language Kluwe mentioned. But there would be others in that room.

[woodbuck27]

So can we move this thread? It isnt football anymore.

Do you feel threatened?

It'll be OK.

[woodbuck27]

I mean, their new punter outperformed his numbers from last year in every way. So...

That's got little to do in terms of "who said what or didn't".