Official Non NFC North NFL News 2014 (Unofficial Johnny Manziel)

[pbmax]

I guess my gripe is with the national "non football" media that is injecting itself into football.

There is too much here to respond to, but I have yet to see media complain about Manziel's grandfather's oil business. Football people moaning about his sense of entitlement (most of which was presumed before they met him) have been all over since the start of his sophomore season. I have seen stories about the strange nature of Manziel's family, but about the effect of wealth, not the oil business.

Non-football media injecting themselves into football matters often look dumb. While they may have something to say about the social significance of the signing, they know little about the motivations or needs of teams. Every round he dropped was evidence of conspiracy to some.

It should be noted Tebow had a Super Bowl commercial with Mom while Sam has stopped his reality show. Who is zooming who here?

And of the left I know about, most wanted Vick banned for life for abusing animals, not given a second chance. The constituencies for his second chance were mostly football clubs who weren't the Atlanta Falcons.

[Guiness]

He had a bad senior bowl week before the bad combine as well. Football outsiders did a statistical analysis / projection of all pass rushers (DE/OLB) and Sam came out dead last. You can bet that if some outside site is doing projections, teams are doing similar analysis and coming up with similar results. The SEC DPOY may have given him a 6th round sniff without the circus, but anything higher would have been a reach.

Yup, this is the way I see it too. Appeared at first to be a mid round talent, but laid an egg when it mattered, and hurt his draft position. The combine can make a huge difference, and the senior bowl is closely watched. He's undersized for an 4-3 DE, and for an OLB his combine numbers are awful.

Who knows, maybe he was distracted??? No doubt he was as preoccupied as hell with the going ons, and maybe the Rams landed themselves an unlikely sleeper, one that everyone was watching closely.

[Guiness]

Since this is the unofficial Manziel thread, I'll post a link to the recent sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Manziel here. In Florida, of course. We have Newfoundland, you guys get Florida (and Bieber). (hint: it's a hoax!)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ainst-manziel/

[mraynrand]

It should be noted Tebow had a Super Bowl commercial with Mom while Sam has stopped his reality show. Who is zooming who here?

Whoa! A football player made a commercial? Stop the presses! Oh, THE HUMANITY!!!



I'm sorry, I may have missed it - did the Tebows shoot that under false pretenses at the draft?

[Guiness]

Hasn't Tebow retired and gotten a gig as a college ball analyst with ESPN?

[mraynrand]

Hasn't Tebow retired and gotten a gig as a college ball anal-yst with ESPN?

Sams could do the same thing!

[pbmax]

Whoa! A football player made a commercial? Stop the presses! Oh, THE HUMANITY!!!



I'm sorry, I may have missed it - did the Tebows shoot that under false pretenses at the draft?

A college player made a commercial prior to getting drafted. A first prior to the NFL, that I can recall. But both are the exact type of attention grabbing events that the NFL abhors because it doesn't and can't control them.

Predictably, it had many of the same chattering NFL people wondering if he was already demonstrating the chaos that might follow.

They are far more similar than dissimilar from the NFL's perspective.

[mraynrand]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

[pbmax]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

[mraynrand]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[pbmax]

I do not think the content (Tebow) nor the timing (Sam) caused their respective controversies with the NFL and its collective, breathless professional commentariat. If you reversed the issues, changed the topics completely or had them each hocking anti-aging socks, the NFL would have retreated to its fainting couch. Remember this is a League that thought less of Manziel when he wore his new line of workout gear from Nike to his Pro Day. Camo shorts?!

In the case of the wider world of news, news commentary and nightly cable "news" apocalypse-is-nigh programming, both topics and causes caused a predictable storm and backlash. Each side felt slighted and tried to portray itself as the plucky, misunderstood underdog. But Tebow's people were smart enough to finish up before the draft, where his ad did not end up hurting his stock.

Sam had picked a project that would run smack dab into the middle of football prep, so that unlike Tebow or other athletes with offseason, non-football pursuits, he would actually be actively participating in the dreaded distraction, rather than be done with it.

To bring this back round to the original point, being a left-wing hero (one of bobble's points) isn't earning Sam a pass here. He got blasted by the same distraction police Tebow did. The outside world freaked out according to Hoyle in each case (if they hadn't, the point of being on TV -a large audience- is lost). The success of each effort was largely a reflection of their timing, not the support base.

[bobblehead]

He was considered to be a 4-5 round pick based on his talent. I think he lasted until the 7th round because a lot of teams didn't want the distraction, and the possible stress on the culture in the locker room. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he lasted because his combine stunk on ice. He isn't that talented and I will actually be surprised if he makes the team.

[bobblehead]

You'd be closer to the truth if you had said that I had posted as a high school kid about 70 years ago.

Truth > made up shit

I wasn't making up, simply recalling (poorly perhaps). I thought in your first few posts you said something about being pretty young and not remembering something or other. I could be mistaken and I'm not motivated enough to look back and see what it was I misunderstood. Carry on old man.

[mraynrand]

... them each hocking anti-aging socks..

I see some equivalency between the two situations, but not to the same extent apparently that you do.

Either way, no one gets as upset over inappropriate socks as the NFL.

[bobblehead]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

[pbmax]

I see some equivalency between the two situations, but not to the same extent apparently that you do.

Either way, no one gets as upset over inappropriate socks as the NFL.

Didn't even notice that. Nice call.

[pbmax]

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

Actually, I am not trying to compare the projects themselves, but their timing, intrusion (from the NFL's perspective) and reaction from the wider world.

Its possible the doc might have been exactly what you say, though without the cooperation of the team and League, they aren't going to get access to the other players. And I assume, but could be wrong, that Sam is sincere in wanting to make a roster, so I don't think he would sign off on a project designed to burn bridges. But they would not need to be hyper-aggressive to get inflammatory footage (should that be flammatory footage?). Someone will say something regrettable during camp (maybe just some fans) and that will be a story for 5 days. The documentary's only edge is access to Sam and his family.

To go back to the original point, I do think the NFL can come under siege when these topics come up. But that siege is predicable and pretty uniform. There are the usual public actors on both sides decrying the tragedy. The are omnipresent because they have to justify their paycheck. But what raises these two incidents are the people who feel they are in the middle, and I don't mean a political center. They would prefer to ignore all of it and not have their sports commingled with politics; sexual, reproductive or otherwise. I find this view common, though a bit naive. However, it crosses the political spectrum and does not accrue to one side or the other overall. We have seen some of them on this board when the topic strays from football (Tebow, Sam, Redskins).

They don't want to think or deal with the topic. And they are mad that folks keep dragging them back into it. Depending on the individual, you get some pretty vitriolic reactions. And I don't think those reactions are reserved to one side of the debate or the other. They are the aggrieved storks of debate.

[woodbuck27]

Since this is the unofficial Manziel thread, I'll post a link to the recent sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Manziel here. In Florida, of course. We have Newfoundland, you guys get Florida (and Bieber). (hint: it's a hoax!)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ainst-manziel/

Guiness!

Your drawing a comparison between Newfoundland and Florida?

Newfoundland is to Canada>>> what Florida is to the US of A !?

Let me see?

OK ...... I think that I get it >>> Former NFLD Premier Danny Williams?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4311853/

'It's my health, it's my choice,' Danny Williams says:

Of his decision to have his heart surgery in the state of Florida.

Maybe it's something else ie: A comparison of Cod (NFLD) to Red Snapper (Florida).

Something bigger?:

Like "a Great White" shark tracked swimming in the Atlantic Ocean from the coast of Florida to the coastal waters of Newfoundland !?

Guiness:

I just discovered this little bit of a complaint by some person residing in N. Carolina RE: a visit and stay in NFLD. I found it amusing to read.

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/L...cted%26rsquo/1

Gheeeesh ! Some people are just soooo anal.

[mraynrand]

^^^^ WTF?

[pbmax]

Johnny Maziel went to Vegas over the weekend. None seem pleased.

Paul Burmeister ‏@PaulWBurmeister 11h
I have no problem with Johnny Manziel enjoying/embracing his celebrity. There should also be an awareness of the image he's feeding.

Richard Deitsch ‏@richarddeitsch 10h
First Take is currently debating Johnny Manziel in Las Vegas. I imagine this is what hell is like if hell were in HD.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk May 25
Johnny Manziel parties in Las Vegas, hanging out with Gronk and spraying champagne http://wp.me/p14QSB-9ulJ