I agree on all areas of concern (middle of D in general, run D and over pursuit in particular). I don't agree that Capers is designing unsound defenses.Originally Posted by wist43
But unless you have a lead, you cannot combine a pass defense focus with shoddy run defense fundamentals and they haven't had that squared away since 2010 and the first 7 games of 2013.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Good comparison. Also reminds me;
Keys To The Game: Wear Correct Shoes, Don't Fall Down
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
If what Capers is doing is sound, then I would hate to see what you would consider unsound.
Lining up in the nickel, with only 2 DL on the field on 3rd and 1?? Okay fine, let's say that's a grand idea - is positioning both of your DL outside the Guards "sound"?? The center must be wondering, "... where the fuck did the defensive line go"?? Cutler had to be wondering - "wow, I guess they want me to run for 20 yds... what's the catch"??
The Lockette TD is a perfect example of being unsound - and not just b/c the player on the back end is a rookie in his first game.
I don't watch nearly as much football as I used to, but I can't remember ever seeing a defense allow more free runners, more uncontested catches, more blown assignments, more instances of being outmanned at the POA, on and on...
If you think what Capers is doing is sound - then it is 100% on the players - which means it is 100% on TT.
wist
Apropos of this discussion, is this article, from the somewhat surprising source of Tom Silverstein, about how the Packers are choosing to defend teams. Commit more to the run or to the pass? Capers is choosing to commit to stopping the pass.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...277844821.html
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Weird after all those years of Ryan Pickett as spokesperson talking about how important it was to stop the run.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
My guess is that this is a function of not being able to generate a great pass rush with four people. If you do that, playing pass D in base and not giving up big passes is much easier. See Lions D versus Packers this year.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
Okay, let me go on record as having a crisis of confidence in the Packers. Not just this year's team, but perhaps the direction of the franchise.
For years, I firmly believed that it was the damn plethora of injuries, relentless, constant, that undermined the Packer teams of the past three years. I even heard a stat two days ago on the radio that Green Bay had suffered more injury games-lost than any other team. I figured that if they'd had their team even half-healthy, all the bozo defensive breakdowns and offensive-line misses wouldn't have occurred so frequently. Not that it was the only reason - I knew better than that - but I believed it to be the biggest factor.
Now, however, the Packers are - knock on wood - one of the if not the healthiest team in the division. Yet the defense continues to leak like a 60 year-old-man's penis after a long bike ride, and the offense is as inconsistent as a three-titted woman.
I now wonder if TT finally has whiffed on too many early rounders lately (Sherrod, Perry, Worthy, maybe even Jones), and if Capers has completely cemented his reputation as someone who can work wonders in year one but cannot sustain the success. And I think back to Patler's comments about the decreasing effectiveness of head coaches (and maybe GM's?) as they pass the eight-year mark of their regimes.
My confidence is shaken.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
Okay then - is that a "sound" approach??
I would argue absolutely not.
Since running the ball is inherently safer, i.e. less chance of a turnover or negative play, and dunderdummy is willing to concede that - and we then have to accept all of the negative consequences that come along with that, i.e. most notably TOP differential - that has to be a recipe for failure, i.e. it is philosophically unsound.
Reading that article, it's pretty clear to me that Capers doesn't care about the run, he doesn't care about the LOS, he doesn't care about TOP - it seems he doesn't care about playing good defense. It sounds like he believes the dreaded "bend but don't break" defense should be our full-time base, lol... what an idiot!! Can't believe MM and TT have bought into this clown.
He needs to retire.
wist
Its too early in the season for my confidence to be shaken. A season almost never looks like it did last year where the two offseason champs stomp the whole league for 18 weeks then play each other. In recent years its been more common for some team to barely make the playoffs then emerge as a powerhouse in the post season. You don't want the playoffs to be the first time you face adversity. Its like the 2010 packers vs the 2011 packers.
I think this team's best can beat anyone anywhere. They just need to have it figured out in time like the Ravens, Giants, Packers, Steelers, Giants have before.
Last edited by 3irty1; 10-02-2014 at 01:42 PM.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
I agree Fritz. There's always some reason/excuse why the defense is not right. After a while most fan's are just like, "Get it fixed, already" We don't expect the defense to be as good as the offense, but how about just consistently productive? Like last year when we shut down Detroit at home and Baltimore on the road, then A-Rod gets hurt and then we suddenly can't tackle. Whether Capers fault or not, it's his responsibility to come up with a consistently productive defense and they are not there. Let's see them gel and stack their success instead of two steps forward, three steps back.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
+1. The 2012 and 2013 versions didn't get it figured out and as a result they got to play the sacrificial lamb role in January. If this team can avoid the injury epidemic for an entire season maybe things turn out differently.
Yes.
At this point, they've reworked their defense in response to the issues they've had over the last few seasons. Will it end up being a disaster in the end? Maybe, but they had to do something different. At least they're decent at one thing so far -- defending the pass -- instead of sucking at everything.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro ~Hunter S.
Now I'm not gambling anymore because I wasn't profitable (too much "emotion/hunch betting") so my opinion isn't worth very much (at all), but spread seems to beg for money on the Vikings side given the larger number and that 9 points isn't really considered much different than 7.5 points. It's a bad number to take up to -9.5 for the Vikings but the "public" sees that and wants to jump all over it. Screams a blow-out really; just remember spreads are not a predictor of the score, but a way to get 50/50 money on each side so they books are not exposed and can rake their 10% vig.
Agreed, 9 points means money so far is on the Packers. Still, it's attractive.
--
Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...
mission's advice seems like it was spot on.
Last edited by pbmax; 10-02-2014 at 11:40 PM.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
What play are you talking about here?
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
There's no shortage of examples - go thru the tape. I don't have it anymore, so I can't watch it.
That said, Capers routinely either completely abandons, or gives very short shrift to defending anything up the middle - haven't you noticed how easy it is for teams to just run it down our throats?? That would be b/c Capers isn't even thinking about defending the middle of the field - he admitted as much in that JS article.
That said, last night he did actually bottle up the middle much of the night - very much out of character for Capers, and very much what is needed every game. As should be obvious though, that will not be a trend - it was a one game deal... next week he will be right back to his nonsense.
wist
Only because I didn't bet it.
Are you talking about the Bears game?
1st quarter 1:19, 3rd and 1. Bears go no huddle, Packers are in the "4-3" or 2-5 if you prefer. Forte goes off right tackle and stuffed by Burnett for no gain.
Next play 4th and 1 is the Cutler fumble and run. Packers are in a 4-3 (2-5) again with Burnett playing up for an 8 man box. Neal and Daniels quit on the play after being ridden to the side, are flat footed waiting for the whistle as Cutler picks it up and runs past them. Everyone else in coverage and thank god because he could have thrown and easy TD.
2nd Quarter, same drive there are a bunch of X and goal plays from the 1 during our kick ass goal line stand.
Later in 2nd quarter at 5:56, 2nd and 1. Forte stuffed for no gain.
Next play 3rd and 1, Bears go big bringing in an extra lineman. Packers go 4-3 with Burnett up in the box. 4 yard gain by forte.
3rd quarter at 8:19, 3rd and 1 is the QB sneak for 2.
I'm going to stop here because after this point is both ints and the game gets considerably less competitive. Plus I must have the wrong game because I didn't see any of what you're talking about.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
It does seem that he cares about points.
What I got out of the article is that his game plan is tailored to combat the opponents strength. True that he dared the Lions and Bears to run but he dared the Jets to pass. Obviously the Bears were more capable of making us pay for that choice but given the result of the game its hard to argue it was the wrong one, if you had to stop one or the other. Capers also says in the article that ideally you'd stop everything.
Against a team like the Vikings you get a game plan more like the Jets which we'd all expect.
I think you need to clear the old cache and give a real evaluation of this defense. You declared the season a waste after 1 preseason game and have been an echo chamber of Capers hate ever since. Things seem a little different this year, a lot of the old tropes no longer seem to fit.
70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.
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