Official Packers vs. Vikings II Discussion Thread

[vince]

Yeah the Raiders are far from a good team but their D isn't too bad. They got the vets hanging on and a bunch of young guys - some of whom will probably learn that discipline and develop to become good players. I agree with PB that Sparano wouldn't be my guy (though if he'd be willing to step back into the DC position I think he's good there.) If an offensive/QB guru like Holmgren would be looking to get back into coaching, I think it could be a good landing spot where you have a young QB with a lot of tools but needs an Obi Wan to show him the way - and you're likely looking at drafting very near the top of the draft each round for the next couple years, and assuming Reggie can hang on with you, you have a football guy you can work with to build an offense who has now pretty much completed all the roster cleansing from the brutal cap position he inherited... With that football tradition I think it could be a good opportunity for someone. Maybe Holmgren's time has passed but I'd be watching more Raider games next year and thinking more bullish about them if something like that happened this offseason.

Also, regarding Woodson... He's slowed down and doesn't cover in space like he used to but he's still effective in crowds and around the line of scrimmage. They're starting to move him up a lot more and getting him around the line of scrimmage and his football instincts and experience are beginning to show more. I didn't see a lot of the game last night but he made some plays around and behind the line of scrimmage ala the old Woodson. I think he's got another year in him after this one yet to help usher the transition before he rides off into the sunset and directly to the Packer, Raider (if they have one) and Pro Football Halls of Fame. College too but he may already be in that one for all I know.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.

I don't even think they thought it was 4th down, that is too much credit. I suspect they were excited and stopped thinking about anything at all. If they had looked around, they would have noticed all the other players were lining up for a play. I'm all in favor of celebrations - if they are short and sweet. But running 20 yards down field to create a stage is tedious.

[smuggler]

They have some good building blocks on defense. Justin Ellis. Sio Moore. Khalil Mack. DJ Hayden.Tyvon Branch (IR). On offense, things don't look as good. But Carr looks like he could develop and that Latavius Murray kid looks pretty promising...

[pbmax]

FiveThirtyEight ‏@FiveThirtyEight 4h4 hours ago
As of last Sunday, Green Bay held the NFL’s best historical margin of victory by 358 points. http://53eig.ht/1xXvgB6

[smuggler]

I wonder who that is down at -3800 pts. They have a long history... have to think it's the Browns, yeah?

[King Friday]

I'm guessing the Cardinals...they've been around forever and have been losers almost the entire time.

This graph really shows how horrific the Packers were in the years immediately before Lombardi. To drop 1000 points in differential in just over 10 years...playing far fewer games per season than the modern era. YUCK! Then Lombardi comes in and completely reverses that in less than a decade.

It appears the Cowboys tried to overtake the Bears in the 70s...fell just short. Then I'm guessing the Niners took the next shot with back-to-back HOF QBs...again just short. It took the next pair of back to back HOF QBs in Green Bay to finally topple those damn Bears.

[Teamcheez1]

Perry, D Jones, Elliot, and Bush all questionable for the game this week. We are one groin or hamstring away from having no depth on defense.

[Guiness]

I'm guessing the Cardinals...they've been around forever and have been losers almost the entire time.

Ya, the sadsack, snakebitten Browns we all know and love were not always the case. They were winning franchise for a lot of years, especially the 40's and 50's.

What about the Lions? Also long lived, also mostly futility.

[Patler]

What about the Lions? Also long lived, also mostly futility.

That's my guess. The line seems to track the ups and downs I recall for the Lions record since the 1960's.

[King Friday]

That's my guess. The line seems to track the ups and downs I recall for the Lions record since the 1960's.

Not sure...but wouldn't the Lions have looked a little more impressive than that bottom line shows during the Barry Sanders era? Even more recently they have been a solid team and I would think should show a more sizeable uptick in recent years. The Lions may be the second lowest line on the graph during the past 2 decades or so.

The bottom line plummets in both the 90s and 00s...which IMO represents a Cardinals team that first had to face the epic Cowboys teams of the 90s and then got moved over into the NFC West and had to face the ridiculous Rams teams of the early 00s.

[vince]

Cardinals (since 1920) - 22,310 scored 26,086 allowed -3,776 differential
Lions (1930) - 22,612 scored 23,463 allowed -851
Browns (1946) - 19,911 scored 18,659 allowed +1,252

http://www.pro-football-reference.com

[pbmax]

Here is the chart so you can see the team by putting the cursor over it (have to go to website as its interactive):


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...ry-of-the-nfl/

Worst three are:

30. Bucs
31. Falcons
32. Cardinals

Historically, Saints were 3rd worst soon after their arrival but Jim Mora, little bit of Haslett/McCarthy and mostly Brees/Peyton have lifted them in the last 20 years.

Browns were challenging Bears/Packers/Giants through the 90s, but Browns 2.0 is pulling a reverse Walsh 49ers on this stat. They are declining at an impressive rate.

[pbmax]

Good lord Datone. Tape that ankle up before practice.

On Thursday, defensive end Datone Jones reinjured the ankle that sidelined him for Games 6-8. He's questionable, as are linebackers Nick Perry (shoulder) and Jayrone Elliott (hamstring) and cornerback Jarrett Bush (groin).

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...283564311.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

Here is the chart so you can see the team by putting the cursor over it (have to go to website as its interactive):


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...ry-of-the-nfl/

I'm not sure there is so much to learn there. The Packers and Bears are way ahead of everybody because they were really good before modern football. Why would you even compare their graphs with expansion teams? Is there anything interesting to learn in weighting margin of victory equally across a very long time frame, then adding the numbers up?

That graph suggests the Steelers are a mediocre franchise.

A graph of yearly jersey sales would tell you more.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure there is so much to learn there. The Packers and Bears are way ahead of everybody because they were really good before modern football. Why would you even compare their graphs with expansion teams? Is there anything interesting to learn in weighting margin of victory equally across a very long time frame, then adding the numbers up?

That graph suggests the Steelers are a mediocre franchise.

A graph of yearly jersey sales would tell you more.

I agree expansion makes the graph harder, though not impossible, to interpret because of expansion. But comparing the relative success of the Cowboys and Vikings to the Saints and Falcons struggles is right there. All the AFL totals are in there so the Patriots, Oilers and Chargers, etc. can be compared.

But it gives you a very good sense of who has sustained success (Bears and Packers) who has been mediocre for a LONG time (Bears then Giants-even with 5 Super Bowl wins between them) and the expansion teams who rise above all others, the Browns, and the single biggest era jump in the chart, Walsh's 49ers. Unless you want to give full credence to the AAFC, in which case I think the Browns increased their overall margin nearly by nearly 3,000 points in slightly less time than Walsh and the 49ers did.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Is the vertical axis on the left the North coast of the Gulf of Mexico?

If so, it looks like the hurricane tracks are zeroed in on my house. I think I'm going to evacuate immediately!

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3m3 minutes ago
The Packers added CB Davon House (illness) to the injury report. He's still probable to play against #Vikings

[Fritz]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3m3 minutes ago
The Packers added CB Davon House (illness) to the injury report. He's still probable to play against #Vikings

Weird, these added injury reports. Does this mean, perhaps, that some guys have been banged up for awhile, and the team sees this as an opportunity to rest some guys because of the level of competition?

[pbmax]

Weird, these added injury reports. Does this mean, perhaps, that some guys have been banged up for awhile, and the team sees this as an opportunity to rest some guys because of the level of competition?

Maybe. Or he could just have the flu.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think I'm going to evacuate immediately!

Loss of bowel control must be one of the worst parts about aging.