An Attempt At Discussing McCarthy's Future

[King Friday]

You guys are so f'ing spoiled. You have no idea what it is like to be fans of most NFL teams. Try living in the shoes of a Redskins fan for just four months. One Superbowl win, three NFC championship games, made the playoffs six years running...You guys are funny

There is nothing wrong with having expectations. That is a good thing. We expect the Packers to win. I have a perfectly clear idea of what it is like to be a Browns fan. So do most other Packer fans. That is why we push for improvement and change when it is necessary.

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

[mraynrand]

Not going to lie. The Schottenheimer comparisons are frightening.

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.

[mraynrand]

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

[digitaldean]

There is nothing wrong with having expectations. That is a good thing. We expect the Packers to win. I have a perfectly clear idea of what it is like to be a Browns fan. So do most other Packer fans. That is why we push for improvement and change when it is necessary.

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

If you are worried about being fans of an irrelevant franchise, be a Titans, Redskins, Browns fan. Yes, I expect them to win. Yes, I'm pissed they crapped the bed at the end (though I said in first half I hoped the lack of points of turnovers wouldn't bite them and it did). Be a Bengals fan and see your team make the postseason only to see Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis continually hit the wall.

Changes? FIRE SLOCUM! But considering how MM is loyal beyond fault, I am not getting my hopes up.

[King Friday]

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

[George Cumby]

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

Yes. And this aint them.

Playoffs every fucking year. In contention, every fucking year.

Does this hurt? Fuck yes. But it beats losing to Dal at home or not even making it to the playoffs.

[Carolina_Packer]

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

I lived through that drought. Bart Starr as HC/GM, coming on the heels of the Dan Devine era. You'd think they would have learned from the mistakes of Dan Devine and gone separate GM and Head Coach when they hired Starr. He was behind the 8 ball right off the bat with the desperate Devine trade for John Hadl trade handcuffing the franchise for several years. It's right up there with the Hershel Walker trade between Minnesota and Dallas, just not as famous.

Back in those days and the next 17 years that followed, I never would have dreamed about a Super Bowl. I remember the strike shortened 1982 where the Packers beat the St. Louis Cardinals in the playoffs, thinking maybe they are building something, but they could never build that defense, but the offenses were fun.

This team does not have any of the same problems that Packer teams of those days had. Not even close. That said, as fans we are living off the current standard of living with higher expectations, cheering for an actual contending team that should be making hay. No matter who we add to the roster, how well they are coached up, how strong our regular season record is to get us 2nd seed in the NFC, a home playoff game, etc., if they get in the big game/moment and gack it up because of coaching decisions and player miscues, you begin to wonder what is the root cause.

[Smidgeon]

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.

I'd rep more of your posts, but I'm not allowed.

[pbmax]

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.

Its has been glorious. It will likely be glorious next year and the year after that. And, while I think the Schotty comparison is a legit point of comparison, it doesn't address Thompson's superior handling of the player personnel and GM side.

But the hesitant approach on the road with a lead and the oddly timed moments of brio are reminiscent of his former boss.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy!

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Yeah, I too lived thru the 70s and 80s deadzone which is exactly why I want to win now with the greatest QB in the NFL because I know the dark times are coming again.

[Patler]

You people do realize that Belichick hasn't won a Super Bowl for 10 years, don't you? Should he be fired? That's an awful long stretch of playoff failures. He hasn't won it since before MM came to GB. Don't give me the excuse that at least he has made Super Bowls since then, because that doesn't matter. A playoff loss is a playoff loss, it doesn't really matter when it is, especially when the loss is to the eventual SB winner. You would be making the same anti-MM arguments even if he had been to several SBs and lost.

When you have a coach that gets you to the playoffs year after year, one that has won it all, one that has gotten to the playoffs in spite of very, very significant injuries, one that has gotten to the playoffs even with rapidly changing rosters from year to year, rolling the dice with someone else is very risky.

Do I think MM is perfect, or the best there is available? No, not at all. I do place a lot of blame on him for the most recent failure; but I also give him a lot of credit for the 55 minutes that they were in total control of the game, in spite of their failures to maximize the opportunities they had. It was what I expected when I wrote in another thread that GB would win in a game that would be close in score, but one they would control. If Bostic catches the onside kick, or better yet if he blocked and allowed Nelson to make what looked like a much easier catch for him, the game probably would have been exactly what I expected. Had they beaten Seattle, my prediction for the SB would have been a GB win.

I'm not blaming Bostic. I could say the same regarding a half dozen other plays.

[mraynrand]

... because I know the dark times are coming again.

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.

[mraynrand]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy!

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

Shanny and Cheat both have won only with one QB, although Cheat is also probably responsible for most of Parcells' success. We may not get to see it, but it will/would be interesting to see Cheat and Stubby have to transition to a new QB.

[Patler]

The game was lost because players failed to make plays at key times.
The game was close (and therfore "losable"), because MM had a conservative "play not to lose" approach.

But ... For 57 minutes they were well-positioned to win the game because of what MM did in preparing them for the game, and perhaps even because of his conservative approach to this game. Not many gave them much of a chance to win this one. Getting at least some points from every scoring opportunity in a game almost predestined to be low scoring is a solid approach to winning that type of game. Going for max points is well and good in hindsight, but getting nothing from a scoring opportunity against a good defense also can be fatal.

Personally, I had no problem with the first FG, because I think getting an early lead was important. As the lead built, I would like to have seen him be more aggressive on 4th and short when 3 points doen't make a one score lead into a two score lead, or a two score lead into a three score lead. I would not go for it on 4th and short when it is a punting situation. Against a struggling offense, I want to keep the field long.

[Patler]

Coaches who consistently get to the playoffs lose their jobs usually only when relationships break down between the coach and either the GM/front office or owners. When the working relationship breaks down, you have to move on, because things can turn sour very quickly.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.

The decline is inevitable. No team's success can last forever, regardless of the strength of the organization. Just look at the history of the NFL. Every year we get into the playoffs is another year closer to the decline of the packer empire. You have to win when the stars align.

And I for one will not be swayed by the rats' group therapy to make the loss easier. It still hurts like a motherfucker to be soooo close, and have them piss it away.

[mraynrand]

The decline is inevitable. No team's success can last forever, regardless of the strength of the organization. Just look at the history of the NFL. Every year we get into the playoffs is another year closer to the decline of the packer empire. You have to win when the stars align.

And I for one will not be swayed by the rats' group therapy to make the loss easier. It still hurts like a motherfucker to be soooo close, and have them piss it away.

I'm not trying to ease the pain of the loss. Just trying to inject a little reality into the conversation. A decline is not inevitable: but that depends on what you mean by decline. I expect there will be down years, there might even be a stretch where some bad institutional leadership returns. But long stretches of institutional incompetence are not inevitable, just possible and less likely, based on how the Packers are organized. But to your point about winning while stars are aligned - I agree, you like to capture that title when you are close, because nothing is guaranteed. Looking long, long term, I actually think the game of football is destined to be eliminated or so fundamentally changed over the next several decades as to be unrecognizable. By the time that happens, I'm pretty sure the Packers will have a legacy of winning ensconced for all time in the game of football as we now understand it.

[vince]

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.

You mockin' me man? Fuck you! I'll get there sooner or later.

[pbmax]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy!

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

I'll sign up in 2020. Shanahan got 10 years after the last Super Bowl run.