An Attempt At Discussing McCarthy's Future

[mmmdk]

NB - Don't get this wrong. Following the Packers is awesome and it's been good football, will be good football. Kings of the NFC North just no dynasty. And we're not the Lions but that does nothing for me.

[Smidgeon]

The problem, of course, is finding Bruce Arians before he becomes Bruce Arians with another team. These are the hires so far this year:

Rex Ryan
Jack Del Rio
Jim Tomsula
Gary Kubiak
John Fox
Todd Bowles

Impressed with anyone? Replacing McCarthy is harder than people think it is.

Isn't it interesting that four of the six are retreads?

[Patler]

Isn't it interesting that four of the six are retreads?

Very interesting. In a typical year it would be five of the six.

[sharpe1027]

Anyone suggesting MM should be fired is delusional. Anyone suggesting he should look to improve next year...no shit. That's the case every year.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4...gn=ob_nfl_rss#

Was Green Bay's NFC Championship Loss Mike McCarthy's Fault?

" ...“If you want to question my play calling … I’m not questioning it."

"I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.” ..." Mike McCarthy ...Fr. Article


Comment woodbuck27:

This is a tough day in the life of Mike McCarthy having learned yesterday (Wed. 21 Jan. 2015) that his younger brother Joe McCarthy passed away suddenly. That tragedy for Mike McCarthy is being covered in it's own thread.

I expect he'll try to deal with this tragedy by simply getting back to work and trying to be as effective or purposeful as possible. We all know the effect short term of such loss can be somewhat or more a negative. Mike McCarthy has to be smart enough to seek any support he may require.

This thread is about football and looking at the past to understand it hopefully for an improved future. The fact that a large part of the loss in Seattle is on Mike McCarthy's election of how to call the game; is made clearly evident in this article.
We often see Mike McCarthy make a change in his play calling that's not sensible. It's the old saying:

"Why change what's working for you."

Many of us have a stubborn streak at least..... sometimes.

As I observe Mike McCarthy one of my observations is that he often gets the blinders on.

I believe I suggested early in the Game Day thread what MM might do to give his team a decent chance against a team that was expected to defeat the Green Bay Packers. I certainly did so in other posts. I wrote of the battle I had to want to will a win for the Packers but that gut feeling escaped me. I ended the post predicting the final score.

Back on point:

Mike McCarthy damned himself in this game (before it even started) by trying to meet a target of a certain number of running plays when he has the NFL MVP playing QB for him. The way he changed up his play calling in the second half was a clear error. Aaron Rodgers knows that and anyone worth their salt as an analyst knows that TRUTH.

The proof of that was in the pudding. Mike McCarthy spoiled his pudding in the second half with the Green Bay Packers leading 16-0. Mike McCarthy became as he often is 'anal' in his style of play calling. Mike McCarthy fails to drive the stake home.This article makes that fact clear.

Studying ** the Play by Play for yourself makes that very clear. Mike McCarthy's play calling leads all in terms of why the Green Bay Packers suffered it's worst defeat in history.

As Jordy nelson said (and I paraphrase):

"Just four more points on the board for the Packers makes that a different game."

Just 1-2 more first downs would have likely done it.

The two '3 and outs', late in the Fourth Quarter before the drive for the game tying FG hurt !

The Game Play by Play:

** http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201501...yze=playbyplay

Final Comment woodbuck27:

No one can learn from their error if they refuse to admit error. Real living means learning every single day.

Mike McCarthy has a lot to learn from 'how he failed ' as a play caller in the second half of the Packers collapse.

[ThunderDan]

................................

Final Comment woodbuck27:

No one can learn from their error if they refuse to admit error. Real living means learning every single day.

Mike McCarthy has a lot to learn from 'how he failed ' as a play caller in the second half of the Packers collapse.

If MM's strategy and coaching was so poor, how did we get ahead 16-0 and 19-7? Was it a complete fluke?

Obviously he had a pretty good game plan to beat SEA at SEA and I would say that GB is the only team all year that made SEA look bad.

[woodbuck27]

If MM's strategy and coaching was so poor, how did we get ahead 16-0 and 19-7? Was it a complete fluke?

Obviously he had a pretty good game plan to beat SEA at SEA and I would say that GB is the only team all year that made SEA look bad.

OK I cannot ignore this:

ThunderDan maybe? ... open that mind of yours.

Before you made this post did you read the article and all (or most of) the comments?

Surely this isn't the 'only' group of Packer fans that refuse to get it !



An original game plan must stand up for a complete four quarters. A full 60 minutes. If it's not working then 'of course' that plan must be altered to compensate for anything predicting a loss.

You don't bull headedly focus a game plan on targets. You better be flexible and thinking on your feet. You better allow input.

In Regulation Green Bay had the ball 4:30 longer than the Seattle Seahawks and we see that solid lead at the half.

What are you doing introducing baloney and the term 'fluke'. Get on point please.

The 'only' thing really obvious was the score. A proper analysis gets to the many reasons it got there. This article is clear as to Mike McCarthy's part in why this team was defeated in what he deemed 'a fun game'.

"A fun game". Holy shit Mike !

Vince Lombardi rolled over in his grave at that characterization of Green Bay @ Seattle last Sunday.


Seattle 28 - Green Bay 22.



ThunderDan:

Read the article and do so open minded.

That article answers your questions.

[pbmax]

You have to be careful with McCarthy and his running numbers. He has previously expressed that the average per carry is paramount and bears watching. He has then said that the number of rushes is really telling and average isn't everything. He has also expressed the idea that he has to maintain an artificial balance anathema, because you have to be aware of the opponent, game situation and success rate.

Now he tells you he thought running it 20 times in the second half was a good target.

In McCarthy's defense, the team did have over 98 percent odds to win the game after Russell Wilson's fourth interception with about five minutes left in the game. Up until that point, McCarthy was fine.

First Half Runs: 16
Second Half Runs: 14

And that includes two drives, 6 plays with 5 runs, designed specifically to end the game and the last of those attempts was with less than 5 minutes on the clock. He wasn't run happy because of the target (see first half), but because he had the lead and a chance to close it out. He has done this before, many times. His end of game strategy needs a rethink, but its not a target number of runs that is the problem.

Its the drastic approach to milking the clock by running regardless of success rate or D alignment.

If I had to bet, that 20 carry figure is one of the common traits of winning teams that database divers pull out once in a while. It sounds impressive and a key to success until you realize that the reason all those carries came in the second half was because someone had a lead and were running our the clock. But that is not always the right approach.

And when he had to have a scoring drive in short order? They started winging the ball around again.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

Checking Packer sites it seems that Mike McCarthy has plenty to answer to after he gets back to the affairs of the Green Bay Packers as Head Coach.

I found this article by Tyler Dunne and don't recall seeing it here and in in case I'm posting it. The article raises interesting points and criticism of Mike McCarthy's way of sweeping things away. A fine talent if your there to please those really easy to please. Give them what they want to hear which is close to nothing.

Then there are those who expect accountability. Those who won't accept something little more than a shrug.

Reading this bothers me:

" ... a painfully passive plan from McCarthy was central to the unfathomable collapse. Given countless chances to dethrone the champs with one bold decision, he balked.

Unlike Bostick, McCarthy didn't point the finger at himself after the game. Regrets? No regrets.

"I don't regret anything," McCarthy said. "Hell, I expected to win the game. We were positioned to win the game." ..." Fr. LINK and Article below.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...289103671.html

Tyler Dunne | On the Packers

Mike McCarthy should get blame for Packers loss, too.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

I hope that Mike McCarthy see's this press conference because there is much contained in it for him to use for learning and growth.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photo...1-f201b81f19fb

From Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick 'LIVE' Friday Jan. 30, 2015:

When asked what qualities he saw in Seahawks coach Pete Carroll that he wished he had, Belichick said the following:

"Well .... the thing that impresses me the most and the thing that, I guess, I would like do a better job of is just the way that his teams play for 60 minutes," he said. "They play from the opening kickoff to the final whistle, to the final gun. They play from the snap of the ball 'til the whistle blows at the end of the play."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...e-relentlessly

Belichick: Pete Carroll's teams 'compete relentlessly'

By: Conor Orr ... Around The NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 30, 2015 at 12:02 p.m. .... Updated: Jan. 30, 2015 at 03:36 p.m.

[mraynrand]

Comment woodbuck27:

I hope that Mike McCarthy see's this press conference because there is much contained in it for him to use for learning and growth.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photo...1-f201b81f19fb

From Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick 'LIVE' Friday Jan. 30, 2015:

When asked what qualities he saw in Seahawks coach Pete Carroll that he wished he had, Belichick said the following:

"Well .... the thing that impresses me the most and the thing that, I guess, I would like do a better job of is just the way that his teams play for 60 minutes," he said. "They play from the opening kickoff to the final whistle, to the final gun. They play from the snap of the ball 'til the whistle blows at the end of the play."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...e-relentlessly

Belichick: Pete Carroll's teams 'compete relentlessly'

By: Conor Orr ... Around The NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 30, 2015 at 12:02 p.m. .... Updated: Jan. 30, 2015 at 03:36 p.m.

Are you saying McCarthy should emulate the Carroll and the Seahawks and play poorly for 55 minutes and try to win it all at the end? Or that he should emulate Belicheat and speak a string of tired aphorisms?

[woodbuck27]

Are you saying McCarthy should emulate the Carroll and the Seahawks and play poorly for 55 minutes and try to win it all at the end? Or that he should emulate Belicheat and speak a string of tired aphorisms?

I want Mike McCarthy to take advantage of his NFL MVP QB and go with the flow working with Aaron Rodgers in every game.

Game plan to best ensure winning any game (including play off games) and not make calls to merely protect a lead. Keep the pedal to the metal as Bilichick and Brady do for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots.

Not pull out his check mark cards and make that his central focus. NOT inform us after a loss that he met this goal and that one when all that added up to was a loss. To actually demonstrate accountability and not forgo responsibility and credibility by informing us that he wouldn't second gues his play calling.



Mike McCarthy makes it too much about himself in one side of his mouth. It's 'about others' on the other side.


If he was a Native he might be named:

[mraynrand]

take it to FYI, woodbuck. You wouldn't want to upset Red, he has tender sensibilities.

[pbmax]

Game plan to best ensure winning any game (including play off games) and not make calls to merely protect a lead. Keep the pedal to the metal as Bilichick and Brady do for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots.

Not pull out his check mark cards and make that his central focus. NOT inform us after a loss that he met this goal and that one when all that added up to was a loss. To actually demonstrate accountability and not forgo responsibility and credibility by informing us that he wouldn't second gues his play calling.

But he didn't meet his goal. And if we take something a coach says about his gameplan as literal truth after a contest, you will never get a clear picture of what the coach wants to do. No coach wants to reveal anything and they want to escape the attention having revealed as little as possible.

Notice that no one is quite sure what to make of Bevell/Carroll today, because both the blame for the play call. It was a sign of solidarity and a way to avoid discussing the plan and the process. Bevell went off script and tried to volunteer the WR as part of the team effort to lose, but that is the exception.

But I do agree that he is too eager too early to go exclusively to run with a lead. I think the injury to his QB exacerbated that tendency in this game. However, its hard to calculate how the entire offense struggling fed into this decision. Long before they ran 5 out of 6 downs, the offense had ground to a halt.

[theeaterofshades]

Ask the Browns (Current Ravens) about Marty Shottenheimer and how firing him after all the AFC Championship game losses got them to the Super Bowl at the time...

[woodbuck27]

But he didn't meet his goal. And if we take something a coach says about his gameplan as literal truth after a contest, you will never get a clear picture of what the coach wants to do. No coach wants to reveal anything and they want to escape the attention having revealed as little as possible.

Notice that no one is quite sure what to make of Bevell/Carroll today, because both the blame for the play call. It was a sign of solidarity and a way to avoid discussing the plan and the process. Bevell went off script and tried to volunteer the WR as part of the team effort to lose, but that is the exception.

But I do agree that he is too eager too early to go exclusively to run with a lead. I think the injury to his QB exacerbated that tendency in this game. However, its hard to calculate how the entire offense struggling fed into this decision. Long before they ran 5 out of 6 downs, the offense had ground to a halt.

The offense wasn't great all game but beginning in the 2nd Quarter and getting the magnifying glass out and looking at the play by play :

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201501...yze=playbyplay

2nd Qtr... Score Green Bay 13 - Seattle 0

8 plays and 11yds ...FG ; 3 plays and 23yds ...interception ; 6 plays and 12yds ...punt (End of 1st half)


3rd Qtr... Green Bay 16 - Seattle 0

3 plays and 9 yds ...punt ; 4 plays and 7 yds ... punt


End of 3rd and 4th Qtr... Green Bay 16 - Seattle 7

10 plays and 57 yds ...FG ; 3 plays and 6 yds ...punt ; 3 plays and a -ve 4 yds ... punt ; and finally

6 plays and 48 yds ... FG


End of regulation Green Bay 22 - Seattle 22.


That's 9 possessions and 46 plays for 168 yards ( a dreadful 3.652 Yds/Play Avg. ) and just 3 FG's (9 points).

[pbmax]

Yep, it didn't pick up until they needed the FG. And that might have been as much about Seattle backing off to prevent a TD as it was about the passing game suddenly coming to life.

[woodbuck27]

But he didn't meet his goal.

Checking the Play by Play:

The Packers had 13 running plays in each half (they ran the ball 26 times in total) plus the 12 yard scaramble late in the 4th qtr. by Aaron Rodgers.

[woodbuck27]

Then there is this flip side or should Mike McCarthy get all of the blame? He informs us the he's responsible for the loss but that's just Coach speak.

The overwhelming fact remains...that the collapse wasn't all on Mike McCarthy.

Aaron Rodgers wasn't happy with the play calling. He made that obvious after the shocking loss in Seattle. At times like this emotions run high and Aaron Rodgers is certainly emotional. People say things that later they regret and apologize for. A great example of that is the reaction in the Seattle dressing room after the loss in the Super Bowl; and why wasn't Marshawn Lynch tasked to seal the deal?

We're well aware that Aaron Rodgers is a big part of the Packer offensive play calling. That it's not all Mike McCarthy. We learned that late in this past season. Was that 'shared approach' completely shut down in Seattle? I know that they tried wrinkles that were never used in the past to deal with crowd noise.

Rodgers is the Packer and NFL MVP. Again...he's called his own plays and if he didn't like a call from the sideline couldn't he have changed it?

Other problems that need to be addressed:

** The premature celebration and lack of leadership in controlling all that emotion.

** The way the Packers defense was set (Dom Capers) and tightened up in the 4th quarter and in overtime are a part of this loss.

** ST's and Shawn Slocum. He's been buried so where I come from there's no sense disturbing that grave here or again.

[pbmax]

Checking the Play by Play:

The Packers had 13 running plays in each half (they ran the ball 26 times in total) plus the 12 yard scaramble late in the 4th qtr. by Aaron Rodgers.

“If you want to question my play calling … I’m not questioning it,” McCarthy said, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had has as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.”

Not including Rodgers, who was not going to have any called runs:

29 rushes for the game (21 Lacy, 5 Starks, 1 Cobb, 2 Kuhn). 16 in the first half, 13 in the second half.