Moral Hazards and Happy Meals for the Circle Jerk

[bobblehead]

I think I'm going to break rank on health care. There are too many people who do everything right that end up getting dropped by providers and royally screwed. And I'm not talking about the typical screwups who can't hold a job. I'm talking about lots of responsible tax paying contributors to society that followed the rules and paid their premiums.

We need certain reforms, no doubt, but gov't run healthcare is not a solution to anything except low taxes.

[bobblehead]

]I think healthcare is one thing that should not be dependent on money.

Well too bad, because it is. It costs real money to develop and produce drugs, it costs real money and 10-12 years of your life in school after high school to become a physician, and it costs money to keep the doors of a hospital open and ship your injured ass in on a helicopter. There are problems all over the healthcare system, from suppliers gouging to unions fighting for cadillac coverages, to huge end-of-life expenses, to people demanding all sorts of care they don't need. But one thing is certain: so long as people see it as 'a basic human right' and divorced from being 'dependent on money' we're going to have a hell of a time fixing problems in the system. It ISN'T free, and if more people treated it like other commodities they value (like TVs, cars, phones, food) instead of treating it like it's air - free for all to breath - it wouldn't cost so damn much.

And BTW, in most cases it actually isn't dependent on money. In most areas, the county hospitals provide tons of free care, and in many cases, the care is actually better than private institutes, especially for things like trauma.

I never said it was free--that hospitals and doctors and drug companies shouldn't be paid for their services. The fact remains that these services are necessary for the people who need them--and everybody needs them. The reason HMO's ever became popular in the first place is that the insurance companies came to realize that it was cheaper to keep the population healthy than it was to pay for rehabilitative care and preventable emergencies. If the people cramming the emergency rooms for their basic care were covered and could get that care from a doctor, then the Emergency Room could go back to treating emergencies. My question becomes this then, and we've all heard it before: if you don't want the government handling insurance, how do you plan to make sure that everyone has access to preventative healthcare? (or would you rather have to fork out $700 each time an indigent shows up at the ER with the flu that's turned into pneumonia? 'cause basically that's what you have to do now)

to quote ted kennedy, HMO's solve the access problem for healthcare. OOps, I guess he was wrong.....again. We need to deregulate medicine, regulate disaster health care policies with a high deductible, and get people funding medical health care savings accounts. Hopefully when your boss no longer has to pay for your healthcare he can afford to pay you more. Hopefully when you make your own decisions on healthcare you will save the entire system money.

[MJZiggy]

That's a big hopefully. You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases? It will go onto the corporate bottom line with a few execs getting decent bonuses and the peons getting very little. And then they have to fund health savings accounts. I can see this costing low level Admin Assistants a whole lot of money that they really couldn't afford to give up.

[Scott Campbell]

You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases?

Yeah, I do expect that to happen. Most will pay you more if you opt out of coverage now. They're not required by law to provide health insurance now. They do so to remain competitive - the same reason they pay what they do instead of paying minimum wage.

[Scott Campbell]

I can see this costing low level Admin Assistants a whole lot of money that they really couldn't afford to give up.

Healthcare is expensive. Like everything else one buys, it will cost the poor far more as a percentage of income than it will the people who earn more.

[MJZiggy]

You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases?

Yeah, I do expect that to happen. Most will pay you more if you opt out of coverage now. They're not required by law to provide health insurance now. They do so to remain competitive - the same reason they pay what they do instead of paying minimum wage.

They will pay you more, but will they pay you the same amount that coverage would have cost them?

And yes, firms over a certain number of employees are required to offer it.

[Scott Campbell]

I stand corrected.

[bobblehead]

You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases?

Yeah, I do expect that to happen. Most will pay you more if you opt out of coverage now. They're not required by law to provide health insurance now. They do so to remain competitive - the same reason they pay what they do instead of paying minimum wage.

They will pay you more, but will they pay you the same amount that coverage would have cost them?

And yes, firms over a certain number of employees are required to offer it.

In SOME states. Some very socialist states that are getting a very oppressive tax burden no less. And the more you reduce unemployment (ie make capital ventures profitable) the more a company will pay a good employee.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

BTW, Ty…if you are out there, did you know a guy named David Einhorn in high school?

Einhorn? that sounds suspiciously jewish. Ty would not hang with people with jewishy sounding names.

I prefer good, american names like nelson.

Ty is aware of many successful (and, when we really think about it..is there any other kind) hebes from the Miltown area. Ellen Freidman, Jon Steuer, Howie Epstein, jerry and dave zucker,

Hit The Googles on Einhorn. He helped bring Lehman (or is that Nelson?) Brothers down. One of your own from the Noth Side in 1984. I like his book.

Quit playing the poor is me anti-Semit card, It's getting old.

What do you knw about the RJC? I was told tonight they will bring Obama down later this year.

Google Einhorn? Why? I just told you i'm very aware of succesful hebes from miltown. Mr. Einhorn was investing/playing the market years before attending college. Never hurts when your parents are loaded. You do realize that half his initial 900k came from his folks?

Um, Einhorn Associates (M&A)...mom treasurer...dad prez. Both attended Cornell.

Nancy contributes to the ballet. Beautiful home in Riverhills.

AND HERE IS THE KICKER...EINHORNS (parents) CONTRIBUTORS TO DEM PARTY!!! And good ol' david is a major contributor to the dem party.

what does he know that you don't? LOL

Jews bringing down the traditional ivy wasps/crashing the party ain't a new story. Barbs at the Gate, Boesky, milken, etc.

1984: Einhorn didn't graduate in 84.

Nelson: Reference that went over your head.

Poor anti semitic: Uh, i have never discussed my religion or mentioned anything like that on this forum. You are the only person doing that...and, no one knows why.

RJC: What is there to know? Are you joining? They have a new chapter in Minny. And a new one in miltown. LOL Jewish republicans...wow, take a small minority group and then an extremely small minority of that minority.

I have no idea what you are driving at.

Are you referring to the lies they are spreading about obama taking Hagel to israel? They should check their facts, cause it only makes them look stupid. Or, do you think that because obama "surrounds" himself with a REPUBLICAN SENATOR whose voting record on israel is "abysmal record on Israel" is going to hurt the DEMOCRATIC nominee.

Bit surreal for my taste.

P.S. Polls indicate jews voting for obama at 2 to 1 ratio over McCain. But, i guess the RJC needs to cling to anything they can when comparing it to the 75% support kerry received.

P.P.S. the njdc says obama has an outstanding voting record on israel. the jerusalem post editorial "is not bad for israel."

[mraynrand]

P.P.S. the njdc says obama has an outstanding voting record on israel. the jerusalem post editorial "is not bad for israel."

That's good stuff

[HowardRoark]

Three years ago......times have changed.

[mraynrand]

Seven years ago......times have changed.

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