Brady 4 Game Suspension Upheld

[Guiness]

The science only showed that they could possibly have naturally deflated. You know this right? Science doesn't disprove that there was an intentional effort on the part of Brady and NE to go outside the rules and change the inflation to suit them. And 'Narrative' is a nice euphemism for 'inculpatory evidence'

Huh? How could the gas law prove that the Pats didn't deflate them? It can't prove that negative, what it did was show there was a way other than actually letting the air out to get to a lower pressure than the refs set them to.

People have go to jail without any concrete evidence all the time. Saying that it is circumstantial does not prove your point.

There's something humorous (and correct) in the statement that my saying it's all circumstantial proves nothing

I think you misunderstand me in thinking that I'm defending Brady or making any judgment that he did or didn't do anything. What I think is that the NFL had a little kangaroo court, and now it's been exposed.

[pbmax]

No, pb, I am not confusing things; however, I also am not interpreting everything in the same way that you are. I also believe your nice neat little package for letting Brady off virtually scot-free would not have accomplished in any way shape or form what the powers to be hoped to accomplish in this situation. However, it would have shown them to prostrate themselves belly-up in front of Brady, Belichick and the Patriots.

That may be the case, that the League Office is under siege for a perceived pro-Pats bias (or just from anti-Pats sentiment of other clubs). But that should fall under the same consideration about how strong your case is. They obviously misjudged it as we are on version 3 of what Brady is being punished for. Even the judge today pointed out the lack of direct evidence for Brady and the paltry evidence on conspiracy.

If Goodell's standing is in bad enough shape (possible after Rice, Peterson and Hardy) that he cannot stand a revolt over Patriot related cheating allegations, the I guess dying on this hill could be viewed as expected. But Rogers' weakness isn't a reason to put the conduct policies in the shredder. The Commish needs to function better on a regular basis. Roger hit the franchise relatively hard, largest fine ever and two draft picks forfeited (one of them a #1). And he can still forestall future iterations of Patriots running over the edges of this rule.

But mainly he has to get better performance from himself and his staff. When they gave ball prep back to the QBs, they should have accounted for tampering by keeping records and locking the balls up with the refs, where only the refs can release them. Florio is right, the methods used by the League after they gave the balls back to the QBs showed the NFL did not take inflation seriously, and did not understand the science behind it. Indeed, the easiest solution to this situation would have been to put in better procedures after the report from the Ravens through the Colts prior to the game.

If their goal is to hurt the Patriots with a few losses to prevent future envelope pushing, they need to be much more careful. And Roger needs better tools to punish teams, because that is where his evidence is best in this case.

[pbmax]

Now you are telling us what the court should and shouldn't do? You seem very dismissive of anyone else's take on this, whether it be fellow posters or the court.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the "narrative" is far more compelling evidence than you are giving it credit and the "science" is also not what you make it out to be.

I do not mean to dismiss you arguments. I agree you an Patler could be right. When this all went down and the texts were first revealed, I thought Brady should be gone, so I understand your position.

But for the court to accept that deflation happened artificially is unfortunate*. Rand may be right that we cannot 100% rule out tampering, but there is still a good chance that environment played a large role in the halftime readings.


*The Court's hands are probably tied here, as this is an appeal and no new fact finding happens (or is not supposed to happen) at the appeal. So the other studies may not enter into it, unless the NFLPA included them in their filings.

[mraynrand]

Huh? How could the gas law prove that the Pats didn't deflate them? It can't prove that negative, what it did was show there was a way other than actually letting the air out to get to a lower pressure than the refs set them to.

My point only is that the science is limited to presenting the possibility that the deflation was natural. That's it. But I don't think that's all that important. Grampa died tumbling down the stairs. Science says he could have slipped (we measured the frictional shear force of his slippers on the carpet and it's weak enough not to hold his weight from a standard step too close to the top stair), but doesn't necessarily help us to determine whether he was pushed by Granny.

And now I'm done. I just don't care enough to haggle anymore!

[sharpe1027]

I do not mean to dismiss you arguments. I agree you an Patler could be right. When this all went down and the texts were first revealed, I thought Brady should be gone, so I understand your position.

But for the court to accept that deflation happened artificially is unfortunate*. Rand may be right that we cannot 100% rule out tampering, but there is still a good chance that environment played a large role in the halftime readings.


*The Court's hands are probably tied here, as this is an appeal and no new fact finding happens (or is not supposed to happen) at the appeal. So the other studies may not enter into it, unless the NFLPA included them in their filings.

OK, sorry if I misunderstood. This is the first time you have acknowledged the possibility that there might be sufficient evidence, at least from someone else's perspective. I think we all agree that environment played a large role in the halftime readings. This was in the Well's report as well. We just disagree on whether or not there is evidence to support that deflation likely played a role in addition to the environment.

I think there is evidence that McNally let air out of the balls and that the judge is reasonable in reaching the conclusion. It is based upon direct evidence of McNally's actions on that day, and indirect evidence of his motives and intent.

[MadtownPacker]

Damn, lots of interest in a thread about Brady's balls. How the fuck did he get suspended the same amount of games as rice and Ap?

Have you skanks already argued about how stupid it is that this shit is going to court, which unless I am mistaken means the public is paying for the NFL to save face?

[MadScientist]

Damn, lots of interest in a thread about Brady's balls. How the fuck did he get suspended the same amount of games as rice and Ap?

Have you skanks already argued about how stupid it is that this shit is going to court, which unless I am mistaken means the public is paying for the NFL to save face?

One side or the other, or both, will have to pay court costs, since this is not a criminal hearing. The costs may or may not be sufficient to cover actual costs, but it is no free ride.

[pbmax]

A rip job on Goodell and punishment. But a funny one. Stay tuned until you find out which actor is too interesting to play Goodell in the movie.

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/f...0150812?page=2

[Guiness]

Completions to 17 different players! That's spreading the ball around!

[smuggler]

Jimmy Garopolo looked like shit tonight, so for the Pats' sake, they'd better hope Brady can play in those first 4 games...

[Pugger]

Jimmy Garopolo looked like shit tonight, so for the Pats' sake, they'd better hope Brady can play in those first 4 games...

I thought it was rather telling that Jimmy G played as much as he did. Could it mean the Pats fear Brady is gonna miss at least one or 2 games? Jimmy might have looked a little better had Gronk played.

[pbmax]

Not Tom Brady, but an All-Pro Quarterback, who at the time, seemed slightly paranoid.

[Guiness]

That's all kinds of creepy pb, deja vu all over again.

Can't get bigger than the league, right?

[smuggler]

Is that Brees? Speaking about the Bountygate stuff?

[pbmax]

Its Brees.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 13m13 minutes ago
NFL has issued a memo to equipment managers apologizing for the fact that they still haven't gotten their new pressure gauges, per source.

Shoulda used Amazon Prime.

[pbmax]

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 43m43 minutes ago
If the judge on DeflateGate case doesn't understand how deflating football can be similar to PED use, maybe he doesn't belong on case.

:

[smuggler]

Why would the judge care about the similarity of an unrelated infraction? Did I miss some comparison the league made?

[Cheesehead Craig]

The judge desperately wants there to be a settlement. However after that last hearing, Brady has the upper hand now with the judge seemingly more on his side. Brady is going to feel emboldened at this point to not admit any guilt and go for the judge to rule in his favor and get his suspension either eliminated or reduced without having to admit a thing.

I think the NFL is screwed and yet another black eye for Goodell.

[smuggler]

It's a black eye for Goodell one way or the other, because the facts show that they bungled the process. It's a black eye for the Pats and Brady because they were exposed as probable cheaters (I think most teams fudge the balls a little bit, but it looks like the Pats really took it to Mission Impossible levels to circumvent the league's controls.)