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Thread: 5th Year Options Declined: 2013 Draft Rregrets

  1. #1

    5th Year Options Declined: 2013 Draft Rregrets

    2. Luke Joeckel
    6. Barkevious Mingo
    7. Jonathan Cooper
    9. Dee Milliner
    10. Chance Warmack
    11. D.J. Hayden
    16. EJ Manuel
    24. Bjoern Werner (beat rush by cutting him)
    26. Datone Jones
    28. Sylvester Williams
    29. Cordarrelle Patterson

    EDIT: Add Jonathan Cooper to the list!
    Last edited by pbmax; 05-02-2016 at 06:37 PM.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  2. #2
    Stout Rat HOFer Guiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    2. Luke Joeckel
    6. Barkevious Mingo
    10. Chance Warmack
    11. D.J. Hayden
    16. EJ Manuel
    26. Datone Jones
    28. Sylvester Williams
    29. Cordarrelle Patterson
    Hard to believe Datone has been with the Packers for 3 years. An awful quiet 3 years.

    Warmack is only a little surprising. He started from day 1, and has played well. I think the problem is his draft position, as a top 10 pick he'd get franchise LT money. No one pays a guard that, and I think the Titans will resign him, just not for that money.
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  3. #3
    Hands-to-the-face Rat HOFer 3irty1's Avatar
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    I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

    I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.
    70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.

  4. #4
    Just one example of all these talking head, "Draft Experts" being full of shit and why I don't pay any attention to anything they say:

    Mike Mayock's Top 100 Draft Prospects for 2013

    Player Rank

    Luke Joeckel #3
    Barkevious Mingo #10
    Dee Milliner #16
    Chance Warmack #4
    D.J. Hayden #14
    EJ Manuel #41
    Bjoern Werner #26
    Datone Jones #27
    Sylvester Williams #22
    Cordarrelle Patterson #30

    Every player except Manual was rated as a first round selection. It doesn't mean that they're all a complete bust but they sure didn't live up to their rated draft position for whatever reason. (Injuries, just not that good, not smart enough, etc., etc.)

    I could find lists by 100 more, "experts" that are just as far off or worse than Mayock was. The draft is primarily a crapshoot and this is another reason why people getting their undies in a bundle complaining about players being a, "reach" and being taken too early or being a, "bargain" because they were selected later than their, Draft Grade" is hilarious to me. Let the kids put the damn pads on and play some football first. Who ends up being a football player and who doesn't will sort itself out. This happens every single year without exception.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 3irty1 View Post
    I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

    I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.
    I agree with this assessment regarding Datone 3irty1. I think he was miscast as a DE in a 3-4 defense and barring injuries he'd be better suited playing DE in a 4-3. Being misused is another reason some of these high picks end up not living up to their billing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3irty1 View Post
    I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

    I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.
    Perhaps if he moves on he'll find a team that suits his skills better in 2017.

    Looking at the kids Ted just drafted he will now pick players who actually played the position we want him to in college.

  7. #7
    I dunno. He's not built like a power end 7 tech like Reggie. I have never seen him forecast for a wide 9 tech like Sean Jones.

    I thought he first, best position out of college was thought to be a 5 tech in a 3-4.

    But I agree, with regular playing time he gets to the QB. Maybe he is a Santana Dotson 3 tech who needs a NT to always absorb the DT.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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    Barbershop Rat HOFer Pugger's Avatar
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    It appears there are 12 other first rounders from that draft whose 5th year options have been declined by their respective teams.

  9. #9
    Skeptical Rat HOFer wist43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3irty1 View Post
    I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

    I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.
    So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire

    And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

    They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.
    wist

  10. #10
    Fact Rat HOFer Patler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.
    I can't help but wonder if teams fear there is substance to the HGH allegations about Neal late last year. GB has shown no apparent interest in him, and interest around the league hasn't been very strong.

  11. #11
    Postal Rat HOFer Joemailman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patler View Post
    I can't help but wonder if teams fear there is substance to the HGH allegations about Neal late last year. GB has shown no apparent interest in him, and interest around the league hasn't been very strong.
    I think that's exactly it. When that story came out earlier this year, Matthews and Peppers released very strong denials. Neal's comments were more evasive:

    “You might as well stop asking me questions,” Neal said. “I mean, I’m sure you saw how pissed off Peyton Manning was about somebody coming out with false accusations. So if you want to piss me off, that’s one thing. But please don’t — if you want to talk about football, let’s talk about that.”

  12. #12
    2. Luke Joeckel
    6. Barkevious Mingo
    7. Jonathan Cooper
    9. Dee Milliner
    10. Chance Warmack
    11. D.J. Hayden
    16. EJ Manuel
    17. Jarvis Jones
    24. Bjoern Werner (beat rush by cutting him)
    26. Datone Jones
    28. Sylvester Williams
    29. Cordarrelle Patterson
    32. Matt Elam

    EDIT: Add Jarvis Jones and Matt Elam.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SMBASS View Post
    Just one example of all these talking head, "Draft Experts" being full of shit and why I don't pay any attention to anything they say:

    Mike Mayock's Top 100 Draft Prospects for 2013

    Player Rank

    Luke Joeckel #3
    Barkevious Mingo #10
    Dee Milliner #16
    Chance Warmack #4
    D.J. Hayden #14
    EJ Manuel #41
    Bjoern Werner #26
    Datone Jones #27
    Sylvester Williams #22
    Cordarrelle Patterson #30

    Every player except Manual was rated as a first round selection. It doesn't mean that they're all a complete bust but they sure didn't live up to their rated draft position for whatever reason. (Injuries, just not that good, not smart enough, etc., etc.)

    I could find lists by 100 more, "experts" that are just as far off or worse than Mayock was. The draft is primarily a crapshoot and this is another reason why people getting their undies in a bundle complaining about players being a, "reach" and being taken too early or being a, "bargain" because they were selected later than their, Draft Grade" is hilarious to me. Let the kids put the damn pads on and play some football first. Who ends up being a football player and who doesn't will sort itself out. This happens every single year without exception.
    I have to say, Mayock's ranking was pretty damned close to the actual drafting order. Manuel's ranking is out of whack but that can be explained as a reach by Buffalo.

  14. #14
    Hands-to-the-face Rat HOFer 3irty1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire

    And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

    They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.
    I think I'll be ok.

    http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...l=1#post721597

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    He's strictly a 5-technique in a 30 base, and he's a versatile DT inside on passing downs.
    I don't feel like its any dumber of a reclamation project than moving Neal to OLB was. You gotta think its a distant plan B though.
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    Wolf Pack Rat HOFer Deputy Nutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire

    And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

    They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.

    The issue in the past half a dozen drafts is that Thompson doesn't draft players for the 3-4 defense. He doesn't realize that you have to draft players that actually fit the scheme your team is running. Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Jerell Worthy, Mike Daniels*, Datone Jones. I struggle with the fact that Thompson fails to realize that you basically that you play 3 really big guys at the linemen position, and then draft 4 athletic fellas to play linebacker. You don't draft college defensive ends and stand them up as outside linebackers. You don't draft college defensive ends in 4-3 defenses in college and ask them to play defensive tackle in a 3-4.

  16. #16
    Moose Rat HOFer woodbuck27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
    I have to say, Mayock's ranking was pretty damned close to the actual drafting order. Manuel's ranking is out of whack but that can be explained as a reach by Buffalo.
    Who should ever trust what the ultimate draft expert (Mike Mayock) might proclaim?

    Sure the Experts sometimes get it wrong but no less they are the best or considered competent at what they do...they are obviously respected by the NFL Teams or prospects wouldn't generally come off the board in terms related to 'the Expert Grades' and overall ranking of prospects. Too poo poo all that is nonsense...maybe even arrogance when you put down any fan that acknowledges or respects what these experts have to offer. To go there disclaims against any NFL fan that dedicates him/herself to reading all that available on the internet or in magazines specializing in the importance of the annual NFL Draft.

    I'll proclaim this:

    If your a serious fan, investing time and money in things like the NFL Network and reading all that's available on the internet won't hurt your competence to expand your fan experience and maybe know more than the casual NFL fan.

    We al know that the draft can be hit and miss. TT and his draft team select a certain player based on clear criteria of need or PBA.Then the work with that prospect really begins. It's then more than less out of Ted Thompson and the Scouts hands and in the guidance of the Packer Coaching staff . It's with that prospects real ability to find the correct attitude and drive for a roster spot. That attitude and appreciation for their careers as NFL players on the Green Bay Packers must be maintained ever present into years two ..three etc.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Nutz View Post
    The issue in the past half a dozen drafts is that Thompson doesn't draft players for the 3-4 defense. He doesn't realize that you have to draft players that actually fit the scheme your team is running. Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Jerell Worthy, Mike Daniels*, Datone Jones. I struggle with the fact that Thompson fails to realize that you basically that you play 3 really big guys at the linemen position, and then draft 4 athletic fellas to play linebacker. You don't draft college defensive ends and stand them up as outside linebackers. You don't draft college defensive ends in 4-3 defenses in college and ask them to play defensive tackle in a 3-4.
    I am pretty sure with the drafting of Raji and Matthews that Thompson knows the body type.

    There was no reason other than health that Perry can't play OLB very well. Neal turned out to be too puffed up to be a 5 tech DT but he looked for all the world like one. He played alright as an elephant and if he wasn't bringing PED rumors into the locker room, he might still be on the roster. If you read his draft notices, 5 tech is mentioned often. Worthy and Daniels were grabs for speed and pass rush. One worked out, the other can barely stay in the League regardless of scheme. Jones looked like 1 of the 2 best 5 techs in his draft. Physically, he is tailor made for it. I think scouting/player busts have played more of a role than targeted body type.

    The main problem is that they haven't been a straight 3-4 since 2010.

    First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time. And when they are in base, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

    So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  18. #18
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post

    First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time.
    If they are only in it 25% of the time, why call it base? They don't.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post

    First, they are in 3-4 about 25% of the time. And when they are in 3-4, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

    So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for base nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.
    They've often said they wanted to draft/develop personnel that could switch to multiple alignments without substitution. I think that's at least one reason why Jones is 'standing up' and one reason why they drafted the Northwestern guy: You look at his tape and he really can play anywhere on the line except maybe nose against the run. He even looked reasonably comfortable in a zone blitz drop.
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  20. #20
    Wolf Pack Rat HOFer Deputy Nutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    I am pretty sure with the drafting of Raji and Matthews that Thompson knows the body type.

    There was no reason other than health that Perry can't play OLB very well. Neal turned out to be too puffed up to be a 5 tech DT but he looked for all the world like one. He played alright as an elephant and if he wasn't bringing PED rumors into the locker room, he might still be on the roster. If you read his draft notices, 5 tech is mentioned often. Worthy and Daniels were grabs for speed and pass rush. One worked out, the other can barely stay in the League regardless of scheme. Jones looked like 1 of the 2 best 5 techs in his draft. Physically, he is tailor made for it. I think scouting/player busts have played more of a role than targeted body type.

    The main problem is that they haven't been a straight 3-4 since 2010.

    First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time. And when they are in base, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

    So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.
    Sign Peppers, move him to outside linebacker.

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