Official OTA's/Minicamp Thread

[texaspackerbacker]

Gunter with more speed is a 1st round pick. But he's not going to gain a step overnight. He's at his physical limits.

Gunter played better than any other Packer Corner last season. Unfortunately, he couldn't handle some of the top receivers of other teams. However, I think he'd be a damn fine second Corner if Kevin King or maybe House can take over as the top Corner. I'm glad they put Randall in the slot, as that means Gunter is more likely to get a crack at being a starting Corner. The key to it all is having that #1 emerge - hopefully King. Then we've got a ton of quality and depth. Otherwise, it's just like last year but with more choices.

[Joemailman]

Gunter played better than any other Packer Corner last season. Unfortunately, he couldn't handle some of the top receivers of other teams. However, I think he'd be a damn fine second Corner if Kevin King or maybe House can take over as the top Corner. I'm glad they put Randall in the slot, as that means Gunter is more likely to get a crack at being a starting Corner. The key to it all is having that #1 emerge - hopefully King. Then we've got a ton of quality and depth. Otherwise, it's just like last year but with more choices.

The problem is that unless things have changed, The Packers don't have a #1 corner who they put on the other teams #1 receiver. They play sides. So unless the Packers change things, opposing teams can put their #1 WR against Gunter, and force the Packers to decide if they want to give Gunter help.

[Bretsky]

I hope he does awesome, but I don't share the love fest for King. Still think Watt would have done great in GB

[bobblehead]

Gunter played better than any other Packer Corner last season. Unfortunately, he couldn't handle some of the top receivers of other teams. However, I think he'd be a damn fine second Corner if Kevin King or maybe House can take over as the top Corner. I'm glad they put Randall in the slot, as that means Gunter is more likely to get a crack at being a starting Corner. The key to it all is having that #1 emerge - hopefully King. Then we've got a ton of quality and depth. Otherwise, it's just like last year but with more choices.

Hmmm....first time I've agreed with Tex in awhile. You nailed it.

[pbmax]

Hmmm....first time I've agreed with Tex in awhile. You nailed it.

Joe nailed the problem though. Neither King not House are gonna shadow the #1 receiver. At least, neither has done it professionally before (unsure if King played sides or matchup in college).

So if Gunter is the RCB, he's going to get the fastest #1 WRs and the defense is going to have to roll coverage. So your defense is already on the defensive.

[MadScientist]

I hope he does awesome, but I don't share the love fest for King. Still think Watt would have done great in GB

I think Watt would have been terrible paired up against #1 receivers.

As for Gunter, I like him as a backup, as he is assignment-sure, but he is just limited physically. If House has lost a step, then Gunter may be the best option, but at the moment I'd rather House be the second outside CB. That is what he was brought in for.

[texaspackerbacker]

Joe nailed the problem though. Neither King not House are gonna shadow the #1 receiver. At least, neither has done it professionally before (unsure if King played sides or matchup in college).

So if Gunter is the RCB, he's going to get the fastest #1 WRs and the defense is going to have to roll coverage. So your defense is already on the defensive.

That may very well be the way things were done in the past, but I'll give Capers the benefit of the doubt in terms of adjusting things based on circumstance. Whether that means getting away from the "sides" thing or giving Safety help at times or whatever, I don't think he's just gonna sit back and let a Corner get beat by speed or whatever. Besides, a slower Corner like Gunter can do some adjusting himself using angles, etc. to deal with a speed guy. There were only a very few who beat him bad last year, so some of those he handled must have had pretty fair speed.

[pbmax]

That may very well be the way things were done in the past, but I'll give Capers the benefit of the doubt in terms of adjusting things based on circumstance. Whether that means getting away from the "sides" thing or giving Safety help at times or whatever, I don't think he's just gonna sit back and let a Corner get beat by speed or whatever. Besides, a slower Corner like Gunter can do some adjusting himself using angles, etc. to deal with a speed guy. There were only a very few who beat him bad last year, so some of those he handled must have had pretty fair speed.

It was a mess last year, so we probably shouldn't draw too hard a conclusion from it, but Gunter did not shift away from the right side last year.

[bobblehead]

Joe nailed the problem though. Neither King not House are gonna shadow the #1 receiver. At least, neither has done it professionally before (unsure if King played sides or matchup in college).

So if Gunter is the RCB, he's going to get the fastest #1 WRs and the defense is going to have to roll coverage. So your defense is already on the defensive.

That may have been precisely because we didn't have a true #1. They might line up differently if King suddenly emerges as that guy.

[bobblehead]

That may very well be the way things were done in the past, but I'll give Capers the benefit of the doubt in terms of adjusting things based on circumstance. Whether that means getting away from the "sides" thing or giving Safety help at times or whatever, I don't think he's just gonna sit back and let a Corner get beat by speed or whatever. Besides, a slower Corner like Gunter can do some adjusting himself using angles, etc. to deal with a speed guy. There were only a very few who beat him bad last year, so some of those he handled must have had pretty fair speed.

Oh good lord...twice in the same thread.

[pbmax]

That may very well be the way things were done in the past, but I'll give Capers the benefit of the doubt in terms of adjusting things based on circumstance. Whether that means getting away from the "sides" thing or giving Safety help at times or whatever, I don't think he's just gonna sit back and let a Corner get beat by speed or whatever. Besides, a slower Corner like Gunter can do some adjusting himself using angles, etc. to deal with a speed guy. There were only a very few who beat him bad last year, so some of those he handled must have had pretty fair speed.

You can't double everywhere. Someone needs to win one on one or his pressure packages don't work.

Someone would have to take the #1 and matchup from Gunter. And my bet is that its House at the start of the season.

[bobblehead]

You can't double everywhere. Someone needs to win one on one or his pressure packages don't work.

Someone would have to take the #1 and matchup from Gunter. And my bet is that its House at the start of the season.

you don't have to double up everywhere. The point is if Gunter is on the #1 you give him help. If King becomes shutdown he doesn't need help. Or you change the scheme to put King on the #1. Of course this entire debate is predicated on someone emerging as a shutdown corner....a scenario that will make me very happy.

[Fritz]

I just don't see any of the current bunch as an outside shut-down corner.

[bobblehead]

I just don't see any of the current bunch as an outside shut-down corner.

King has the physical attributes. Time will tell if he utilizes them.

[MadScientist]

you don't have to double up everywhere. The point is if Gunter is on the #1 you give him help. If King becomes shutdown he doesn't need help. Or you change the scheme to put King on the #1. Of course this entire debate is predicated on someone emerging as a shutdown corner....a scenario that will make me very happy.

If the #2 has good speed Gunter will struggle. Also if the Packers are forced to double, the offense will know that and take advantage of holes opened elsewhere. We have countless posts here bitching about Capers defense failing, but so often the root cause is that the defense has to make up for a player that has readily exposed limitations. The defense doesn't need all-pro's at every position to work, but if you have to trot out a guy who will almost always lose a one-on-one match-up, it will take multiple all-pro types to make up for it (e.g. Mathews, Collins and Woodson were enough to make up for having poor ILB's).

I don't hate Gunter, he doesn't screw up mentally and gets the most out of his physical abilities. That said, if he is a starter, the Packers are in trouble. Especially since there is now plenty of tape on him getting torched worse than California last year.

[GBkrzygrl]

AS we all know Capers' defense is difficult to pick up. I'm curious about King's football smarts and his ability to learn the defense. I can see him playing some from the get-go but only in certain packages.

[Bossman641]

If the #2 has good speed Gunter will struggle. Also if the Packers are forced to double, the offense will know that and take advantage of holes opened elsewhere. We have countless posts here bitching about Capers defense failing, but so often the root cause is that the defense has to make up for a player that has readily exposed limitations. The defense doesn't need all-pro's at every position to work, but if you have to trot out a guy who will almost always lose a one-on-one match-up, it will take multiple all-pro types to make up for it (e.g. Mathews, Collins and Woodson were enough to make up for having poor ILB's).

I don't hate Gunter, he doesn't screw up mentally and gets the most out of his physical abilities. That said, if he is a starter, the Packers are in trouble. Especially since there is now plenty of tape on him getting torched worse than California last year.

Agreed. He's not going to get any faster. If we're stuck with gunter starting its a bad sign

[smuggler]

CMIII and Woodson had Dez Bishop in 2010 and he was an above-average level player.