Official Fire Dom Capers Thread

[pbmax]

After again being able to breathe not down two scores to the Browns, here is the problem Capers is trying to solve.

So many banged up corners and he either has rookies or safeties playing coverage as CBs. He wants to play zone to help them and bring a number of different people up to the line to pressure the QB.

Packers zones, despite progress in getting players who can play it, is a very mixed bag. But without it, Capers doesn't want to put single safety or Cover 0 (zero deep safeties) out there and blitz. So no pressure defeats even the best zone coverages they come up with.

So his solution after two big plays against zone yesterday was some form of Cover 2 man under.

The problem with both is that he has Dix at least and sometimes the other safety (Jones now) playing really deep. 20 yards off the ball in passing downs with substantial yards to go. The reason they do this is called Whitehead. As in, with Whitehead out there against a TE (think Tampa game) giving up a touchdown down the seam with no one available to help.

To recap:
1. No corners
2. Poor zone and man to man matchups
3. Deep safeties
4. Pass rush, or lack thereof. (thanks to Pugger)

You solve one of those, then the defense can be reconstituted. The best bet is to forget Whitehead and Burnett as corners, throw the rookies out there and let CBs cover and safeties do some damage elsewhere.

[Pugger]

After again being able to breathe not down two scores to the Browns, here is the problem Capers is trying to solve.

So many banged up corners and he either has rookies or safeties playing coverage as CBs. He wants to play zone to help them and bring a number of different people up to the line to pressure the QB.

Packers zones, despite progress in getting players who can play it, is a very mixed bag. But without it, Capers doesn't want to put single safety or Cover 0 (zero deep safeties) out there and blitz. So no pressure defeats even the best zone coverages they come up with.

So his solution after two big plays against zone yesterday was some form of Cover 2 man under.

The problem with both is that he has Dix at least and sometimes the other safety (Jones now) playing really deep. 20 yards off the ball in passing downs with substantial yards to go. The reason they do this is called Whitehead. As in, with Whitehead out there against a TE (think Tampa game) giving up a touchdown down the seam with no one available to help.

To recap:
1. No corners
2. Poor zone and man to man matchups
3. Deep safeties

You solve one of those, then the defense can be reconstituted. The best bet is to forget Whitehead and Burnett as corners, throw the rookies out there and let CBs cover and safeties do some damage elsewhere.

It also doesn't help to have a lousy pass rush. You give any QB with any skills time back there like we did yesterday he'll look like an All-Pro instead of the hack he actually is.

[Teamcheez1]

Oh, so that explains the last 5 years........

[mraynrand]

The season hinges on Rodger's shoulder healing and coaching Pipkins up to pro bowl corner status. Seems possible.

[pbmax]

It also doesn't help to have a lousy pass rush. You give any QB with any skills time back there like we did yesterday he'll look like an All-Pro instead of the hack he actually is.

Correct. That should have been #4. Perry back helps. But I actually think a rookie CB contributing is more likely to help overall.

But its also possible Pipkins and D Brown look like a concussed Damarious Randall in practice.

[pbmax]

Oh, so that explains the last 5 years........

Last five years Football Outsiders ranks (Defense/Offense)
2016 20/4
2015 9/11
2014 16/1 (I would contest this one as by the end of the year, see Seattle playoff game, the Defense was outplaying the Offense)
2013 31/9
2012 8/3

2 years the Defense was Top 10. Another year it was more than playing well enough to win in playoffs.

The consistent issue has been pass rush, made much worse by the loss of Shields.

[Fritz]

The season hinges on Rodger's shoulder healing and coaching Pipkins up to pro bowl corner status. Seems possible.

What I glean from the reading I've done is that Capers/MM like the talent the rookie CB's have well enough, but don't think they have a big-picture understanding of what the defensive plan is designed to do, and so can't be trusted not to bust a coverage and give up the easy TD.

I suppose there's no room for error, so I understand playing it safe with the safeties playing corner, but I'd be tempted to go with the talent over the understanding, and hope the understanding catches up - fast.

[hoosier]

Last five years Football Outsiders ranks (Defense/Offense)
2016 20/4
2015 9/11
2014 16/1 (I would contest this one as by the end of the year, see Seattle playoff game, the Defense was outplaying the Offense)
2013 31/9
2012 8/3

2 years the Defense was Top 10. Another year it was more than playing well enough to win in playoffs.

The consistent issue has been pass rush, made much worse by the loss of Shields.

I see two consistent issues: pass rush and receivers roaming free in the secondary. Even when the D has had a pass rush (think 2009) we saw communication problems in the secondary. Not every week like now but against teams that knew how to create confusion through motion and stacking (Pittsburgh, Arizona in WC game).

[Tony Oday]

I'm done with Capers, if we win the SB this year on defense alone I would still want him fired.

[pbmax]

I am curious if this kind of Jekyll and Micah Hyde performance is indicative of teams without a superstar/blue-chipper/field-tilter in the old Cliff Christl vein.

Matthews is only occasionally his old self, Collins is gone as is Shields. The two guys most likely to be the hinge that the defense moves around, King and Jones, are injured and being forced to play back respectively. And both are rookies.

Perhaps the problem with drafting late and not hitting it out of the park in later rounds is that you are missing one big time All Pro around which you arrange your other, less imposing parts.

Or am I being Captain Obvious too?

[Teamcheez1]

I am curious if this kind of Jekyll and Micah Hyde performance is indicative of teams without a superstar/blue-chipper/field-tilter in the old Cliff Christl vein.

Matthews is only occasionally his old self, Collins is gone as is Shields. The two guys most likely to be the hinge that the defense moves around, King and Jones, are injured and being forced to play back respectively. And both are rookies.

Perhaps the problem with drafting late and not hitting it out of the park in later rounds is that you are missing one big time All Pro around which you arrange your other, less imposing parts.

Or am I being Captain Obvious too?

There's probably some truth to this. Watching the Steelers/Ravens last night, it was very noticeable how much the Steelers missed Shazier at LB.

[pbmax]

There's probably some truth to this. Watching the Steelers/Ravens last night, it was very noticeable how much the Steelers missed Shazier at LB.

If I was a Steelers fan, I would want to know how you allow the Packers to score 28 with Shazier?

Wilde is taking the Browns game as evidence of the Packers true talent level without Rodgers (possibly not much better than the Browns) and regards the Steelers game as the exception.

Which is dumb. They both count. The head coach versus the Steelers had a better gameplan (and I did not mean simple aggressiveness, but an expectation for players to make a play) than he did for the Browns. When he opened it up in Cleveland, suddenly players were making plays, even Hundley.

[Joemailman]

If I was a Steelers fan, I would want to know how you allow the Packers to score 28 with Shazier?

Wilde is taking the Browns game as evidence of the Packers true talent level without Rodgers (possibly not much better than the Browns) and regards the Steelers game as the exception.

Which is dumb. They both count. The head coach versus the Steelers had a better gameplan (and I did not mean simple aggressiveness, but an expectation for players to make a play) than he did for the Browns. When he opened it up in Cleveland, suddenly players were making plays, even Hundley.

They do both count. MM said today the Browns game graded out as one of the worst of the season. I'm sure that was not the case with the Steelers game.

[red]

Last five years Football Outsiders ranks (Defense/Offense)
2016 20/4
2015 9/11
2014 16/1 (I would contest this one as by the end of the year, see Seattle playoff game, the Defense was outplaying the Offense)
2013 31/9
2012 8/3

2 years the Defense was Top 10. Another year it was more than playing well enough to win in playoffs.

The consistent issue has been pass rush, made much worse by the loss of Shields.

i would say, CONSITANT pass rush

we're very hit or miss, either we get to the QB, or we get no pressure at all and the guy gets all day to throw

its not like the reggie white sean jones days when the pressure was gonna be there on almost every single play

gotta make QB's jumpy and think they're gonna get drilled on every single pass, not just 5% of the time or whatever it is

thats what i see with the pass rush

[Rutnstrut]

So when is what was accomplished in the past not enough to keep stubby off the hot seat?

[mraynrand]

i would say, CONSITANT pass rush

we're very hit or miss, either we get to the QB, or we get no pressure at all and the guy gets all day to throw

its not like the reggie white sean jones days when the pressure was gonna be there on almost every single play

gotta make QB's jumpy and think they're gonna get drilled on every single pass, not just 5% of the time or whatever it is

thats what i see with the pass rush

Sure, I think we'd all like to have the number one scoring defense in football like in 1996. Let's start here: Who is the current Reggie White, and how do the Packers acquire him?

[denverYooper]

Sure, I think we'd all like to have the number one scoring defense in football like in 1996. Let's start here: Who is the current Reggie White, and how do the Packers acquire him?

It would have to be JJ Watt, right? His main problem these days is he can't stay on the field.

[beveaux1]

So when is what was accomplished in the past not enough to keep stubby off the hot seat?

Realistically, it’s not anytime soon. He has coached for 11 years prior to this year. He’s made 9 playoff appearances using 2 different HOF type QBs, including 8 appearances in a row. His teams have had one season with a losing record (Rodgers first starting season). His teams have reached the NFC championship game 3 times and have reached the Super Bowl another time.

He was quoted once saying that he is a very successful NFL coach and that is really an understatement.

In GBP history, he is probably the third most successful coach of all time behind Lombardi and Lambeau.

My guess is that he will coach in Green Bay until he has at least 3 losing seasons in a row, or until TT is retired and Murphy has given the new GM carte blanche to hire his own head coach.

Capers, on the other hand, may not be as protected as McCarthy.

[beveaux1]

This is a pretty good article summing up this defense's problems.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/b...om-capers-2017

[Teamcheez1]

This is a pretty good article summing up this defense's problems.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/b...om-capers-2017

Shows you how the DVOA rankings don't add up to a lot when the game really matters.