Who should be the next GM?

[Bretsky]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

Are you buying into the circle talk of working with Ted Thompson ? It's a very nice and convenient spin things to go along with Mark (who may soon deserve the nickname of "THE PUPPET) Murphy going out of his way to note a few times they will look at guys without the Personnel Background .

Nine Months Ago Mike McCarthy was saying this is the best depth hes seen in GB at Outside Linebacker as well.

I agree with your premise anything can work. We have Aaron Rodgers and need to surround him with a hell of a lot more talent. Hire the Best Personnell Guy; at least you'll have one leading the charge then.

Hire Russ Ball, and if the next two look for other opportunities it could easily blow up.....if not this year, in the next couple.

BRING BACK BOB HARLAN; HE"D HIRE A PERSONNELL GUY FOR SURE.

DEAR BOB, WHEREARE YOU ??

[Bretsky]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

[mraynrand]

He also told fun stories on how E Wolf loved/craved personnel evaluation. He was evaluating film in high school for free, and about 13 years ago ahead of one of the draft E Wolf was really excited and dragged Andrew Brandit into the film room on draft day and said "LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MOVES......WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT THIS GUY IN ROUND TWO and he's going to be an amazing Green Bay Packer for many years. He craves personell with a passion.

That guy was Greg Jennings.

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

[Bretsky]

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

apparently not...lol

is she hot ?

[pbmax]

that was tough to read; but if my impression of Murphy is correct (aka....has no stones and worshipped the ground Ted walks on) this would not surprise me.

Why is that your impression? He just put out everyone's first or second worst bogeyman to pasture. Why does that make him Ted's puppet?

And second, if Ted was not enemy #1, wouldn't being Ted's puppet (manipulated by the personnel side of the Force) be better than being Murphy's puppet (nameless, faceless, bean counter management side of the Force)?

[woodbuck27]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

The Green Bay Packers are a Pro Football Franchise of distinction not a fricken' Bank.

Murphy needs to hire the very best Personnel Man available and forget the darn Comfort Club approach. Aaron Rodgers needs to be provided with much more talent and that will take an aggressive and very football smart GM.

Let the Bean Counter remain as the Bean Counter.

Russ Ball isn't the way to go.

[mraynrand]

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

you sold out to the TRUTH

[pbmax]

A few notes on Russ Ball and the evaluation side of the personnel department.

1. Russ Ball got his start on the coaching staff of Marty Schotttenheimer. He moved to Strength and Conditioning with Redman while there. His background isn't that of a CPA, he has a masters from Missouri in Physiology. He spent two years working as Schottenjeimers assistant, 8 with the trainers, and then moved to the front office.

He played college football as an offensive lineman, which means he might know more football than any Packers scout save the former NFL guys like Highsmith.

2. McCarthy has recommended him for two jobs and Thompson hired him for one of them.

3. You cannot be honest and claim Ted's drafting has been terrible, and claim Ted has been debilitated with illness AND still believe having a super scout as GM is the answer to all that ails the Packers. Dorsey, Schneider and McKenzie all have had worse drafts than Ted in the last 6 years. All have spent money foolishly on FAs. Either personnel people are prone to occasional mistakes and down years (or all are somehow on the verge of mental collapse), or Ted's errors are not egregious enough to want him fired for cause.

You want proof? Look at Wolf's drafts from the Super Bowl era through to 2001.

4. Thompson and Murphy both have given Ball more jobs and better titles/pay. Both the Super Scout AND the administrator like him.

5. Russ Ball was reportedly a force behind getting Adams and Linsley signed this year AND signing the FAs from last year.

6. The best trait a GM needs is clear minded decision making. Being a scout is no guarantee of that. Clear minded decision making with great personnel people informing you is not a bad setup for the future.

7. The GM doesn't have to make the call alone on draft day.

8. He has worked for KC, Minnesota, Washington and the Saints. None of the personnel people inside 1265 know anything other than the Packers. If I had to lay a bet on who continues Ted's exact method, it would be the guys who have never seen anything else.


You want the down side?

1. Harlan did indeed decide he wanted personnel background on top to help stop the Packers annual failure of drafting even with high picks. I put great stock in this because Harlan found the way out of the wilderness. There are two successful non-personnel people in charge of teams as GM, Mickey Loomis (Saints) and Howie Roseman (Eagles). There have been several failures. Its not that much of a track record.

2. Russ Ball has been the executive in charge of strength and training for a while now. While the issue has been mitigated since the utter catastrophes of the 2010-2013 era, its still been a very mixed bag of results. So he has overseen improvement (the crisis after the Super Bowl year was the catalyst for the change), but they aren't at the top of the health charts yet.

3. Who will be the cap guy after Ball? Ball is one of the best and the GM cannot do both jobs.

[pbmax]

There are plenty of Andrew Brandts and Russ Ball's out there and they are very replaceable. I really don't care much if Russ Ball leaves; but I don't want to lose talented NFL Evaluators.

Name the best cap guys in the League beside Ball and Brandt:


Name the guys who might be as good as Ted at personnel evaluation:


Here are my answers.

CAP: no idea

Scout: Schneider, McKenzie, Dorsey, Wolf the Younger, Gutekunst, Highsmith, McCloughan. And that is just the Packers. How about outside the org? Ozzie was a pro football personnel guy like Reggie for a while, Belicheat, Jim Finks, whoever survived the triangle of authority in Minnesota (Brezhnev?)

Looked at through the limited knowledge of the fan, there are unending lists of good talent evaluators. But some of them were terrible choices for GM. Because the job is completely different, requiring a discerning mind, not a mind just for film evaluation.

[BZnDallas]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.

[pbmax]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

[Joemailman]

Are you buying into the circle talk of working with Ted Thompson ? It's a very nice and convenient spin things to go along with Mark (who may soon deserve the nickname of "THE PUPPET) Murphy going out of his way to note a few times they will look at guys without the Personnel Background .

It's ironic that you think of Murphy as a puppet since you want to limit him to doing things as his predecessor did. Murphy played for Joe Gibbs in Washington, playing in 2 Super Bowls. He was the AD at Northwestern when they greatly improved their football program. He was the President here when the Packers won the Super Bowl. He knows what a winning football organization looks like. I don't find it concerning that he's not a Bob Harlan clone. He's certainly more qualified than John Jones, the guy Harlan hired as President before he had to turn to Murphy.

Let's be honest. Neither of us really know how much Ball has been involved in personnel decisions in recent years. Packers are pretty tight-lipped about that stuff.

By the way, I voted for Wolf (or Wolfe) in the poll.

[woodbuck27]

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

Wasn't $10 Million remaining on the books for the 2017 Season?

What part did Russ Ball have in that? Is the Green Bay Packers an organization that's suffering financially?

Does $10 Million CAP Space remaining translate to going for the Big Show?

I don't prefer 'a Bean Counter' as the Green Bay Packers GM." I don't prefer Russ Ball as the next GM of the Green Bay Packers.

[BZnDallas]

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

I don't buy that either. Until a TT guy leaves and only draft and develops, I think THAT particular argument is bullsh.

[Joemailman]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...t-1/349589001/

Ball, 57, is among the most intriguing figures in the Packers organization simply because the general public knows nothing about a man with immense influence. He is lauded as the team’s lead contract negotiator and salary-cap guru, but his responsibilities are said to extend much further. His talents are viewed as indispensable.

He has been described by Murphy as the “unsung hero of our Super Bowl” and by coach Mike McCarthy as “the best I’ve ever been around.” He is devoutly loyal to the organization and the epitome of a company man. He will not discuss business dealings with his family. He cuts off contact with his brother during the draft and free agency each year. (Randy Ball, a former collegiate head coach, is a pro scouting assistant for the Kansas City Chiefs.)

Around the league, Ball’s peers view him as a legitimate candidate for general manager jobs and wonder why he doesn’t have one already. In Green Bay, Ball is the dark horse to take over whenever the 64-year-old Thompson retires.

“He likes what he does now,” said Russ’ oldest brother, Rick Ball, “but he would love the opportunity to be a general manager.”

[BZnDallas]

Wasn't $10 Million remaining on the books for the 2017 Season?

What part did Russ Ball have in that? Is the Green Bay Packers an organization that's suffering financially?

Does $10 Million CAP Space remaining translate to going for the Big Show?

I don't want 'a Bean Counter' as the Green Bay Packers GM." I don't want Russ Ball as the next GM of the Green Bay Packers.

I thought TT and Ball used some of that $10 mil to extend Adams and Linsley? They used this last 2017 season to make it cheaper over the course of the extension.

[Joemailman]

I thought TT and Ball used some of that $10 mil to extend Adams and Linsley? They used this last 2017 season to make it cheaper over the course of the extension.

Packers are about 6 million under the cap, which ranks 18th. If they do nothing else by the end of the league year, they will be 22.6 million under the cap, which would rank 19th. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

[bobblehead]

At this point, policy is the most important thing: Are we gonna continue to refuse to even compete for top free agents? Or will there be an effort to turn around the deterioration Ted let happen to the roster?

It's not automatic that the people who worked for Ted will follow his ways, but I'd much prefer somebody whose record says for sure that he will build the roster BOTH through the draft and through quality free agents - and I don't mean overage or leftovers nobody else wants like the few Ted went for.

If someone is so motivated I would like a list of the top 5 FA's who signed huge money and how their team fared the next 2 years. I think it would be enlightening for many.

[bobblehead]

I do not TRUST CEO Mark Murphy after it's all coming out (** and THE TRUTH) to be a Man that can make the best decision.

Clearly (and **) CEO Mark Murphy isn't a Man of Vision or why did he have to be approached by a 45 Member Packer Board Executive Committee to remove TT as the Packer GM; when it was too obvious Ted Thompson wasn't fit healthwise to handle the Packer GM's job?

You are hilarious. Who do you trust? Who should be the next packers GM? Who should the board replace Murphy with....wait, the board is incompetent, we need a new board.

[woodbuck27]

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/f...d88181ddd.html

PACKERS

Tom Oates: In search for new GM, Packers should stick with what has worked

TOM OATES toates@madison.com 22 hrs ago

" Thompson’s draft-and-develop approach became a lightning rod for criticism, but mostly due to his reluctance to use means other than the draft to build his roster. It wasn’t the approach that was flawed, it was Thompson’s interpretation of it. "

" The draft-and-develop strategy has worked and can continue to work. However, that will only happen if Murphy hires someone willing to augment the roster with veterans via free agency and trades, unlike Thompson, whose reliance on undrafted — read: dirt cheap — free agents ..."

" ...The natural reaction is that hiring a Thompson protege will mean more of the same in Green Bay, but that’s highly unlikely. Most of Thompson’s underlings never shared his overly cautious nature and were frustrated by his lack of action when deals that would have improved the team presented themselves. ..."

" Eliot Wolf and Gutekunst were known to favor more aggressive tactics over the years but were often vetoed by Thompson. There is no real track record on Ball, who has largely handled Thompson’s administrative work and managed the salary cap."