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Thread: Triangle of Authority is Here

  1. #21
    So, only Murphy can fire fat mike?

    It seems like this just takes all the power away from gutie

  2. #22
    Green & Gold Shades Rat HOFer channtheman's Avatar
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    I don't like this. GM should have authority to hire/fire his coach.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by channtheman View Post
    I don't like this. GM should have authority to hire/fire his coach.
    Murphy said 7 or 8 of teams in playoffs have this arrangement.

    I don't like it either.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  4. #24
    Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
    Eliot Wolf has an offer for a prominent job on Gutekunst’s staff, source said. But he has to decide if he wants to come back before details are hammered out.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    Murphy said 7 or 8 of teams in playoffs have this arrangement.

    I don't like it either.
    It's an interesting point. It seems like it creates the possibility for more drama and in-fighting to me personally.

  6. #26
    Neo Rat HOFer Fritz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    Murphy said 7 or 8 of teams in playoffs have this arrangement.

    I don't like it either.

    Nor do I.

    While I actually voted for Guteus Maximus in the Rat poll, I don't like at all the process by which he got the job - specifically, MM's sitting in on the interviews and seeming to have so much say.

    Thus I like even less though am not surprised by this new power structure. It gives MM too much control, and I don't like that, in part because I was around for the Phil Bengston/Dan Devine/Bart Starr/Forrest Gregg/Lindsay Infante years. Not that they all had that power, but the whole Packer organization was listing.

    So if Mikey-Mike fails next year, can he blame Gutes for a lack of talent and complain to Murphy? Does Gutes have to get permission from Mikey-Mike before he drafts someone? Why is the guy who threw everyone around him under the bus (offensive assistants, the DC, the GM, Russ Ball) have even more authority than he did before it became clear he couldn't get his two-years-in-training-he's-my-guy backup quarterback ready to keep the team at .500 until Rodgers could get back?

    I don't like this one bit.

    And I wonder why MM has gotten more say in matters and now doesn't even report to the GM. All I can really come up with is that this connects somehow to the most important person in the organization: Aaron Rodgers.

    I wonder if Murphy polled Rodgers and Rodgers said he didn't want to start over with a new coach; this could imply that he'd bolt Green Bay if the team started over from the ground up. I can see not wanting to start over with a new HC - I think it's problematic when the QB is a future Hall of Famer and the coach is a newbie. See Favre, Brett, and Sherman, Mike. You're the new sheriff in town, you want to make sure everyone knows you're large and in charge, but you also don't want to ruffle your meal ticket's feathers, and your meal ticket knows that.

    Nonetheless, this bodes ill for the future of this franchise. A handcuffed, impotent GM, a coach willing to throw others under the bus while accruing more power, a team president who puts a GM and coach on parallel lines of authority.

    I hope I am wrong, and would be happy to eat crow after the Packers win next year's Super Bowl, or better yet, deny that I ever wrote any of this.
    "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

    KYPack

  7. #27
    I agree (with Ishmael). Silverstein points out the problem right here:

    Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
    Murphy said he would allow his people to manage and not stick his nose in their business. But what if Gutekunst says no to a free agent that McCarthy wants? Does McCarthy go behind his back to Murphy? Does Murphy overrule his GM? Buck stopped with Ted previously. No get arounds.

    During the introductory PC, Murphy seemed a little unprepared for the question, if RB handles contacts and BG handles roster and players, what is McCarthy reporting to you about?

    Hi first answer was game plans, which I guarantee you is not #1 on Mike's list. Its an avenue for McCarthy to bitch about players on the roster and needs that are unfulfilled.

    Its reverse Sherman-ism. McCarthy doesn't have the responsibility of the GM, but he gets to complain to the CEO about him.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
    Nor do I.

    Thus I like even less though am not surprised by this new power structure. It gives MM too much control, and I don't like that, in part because I was around for the Phil Bengston/Dan Devine/Bart Starr/Forrest Gregg/Lindsay Infante years. Not that they all had that power, but the whole Packer organization was listing.

    ...

    And I wonder why MM has gotten more say in matters and now doesn't even report to the GM. All I can really come up with is that this connects somehow to the most important person in the organization: Aaron Rodgers.
    I think this is exactly that. Rodgers gives M3 leverage, especially with AR's contract coming up.

    And his leverage will allow him to critique the performance of his former boss to the CEO. Its delusional and I am not sure if BG understands how much pressure having M3 in the room will generate. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, but he's going to have to deflate Stubby to make this work.

    And Mike doesn't even need to fall in love with a specific FA to apply pressure. He just needs to note positions that could use help or a veteran. I would almost say this could work if M3 only got to comment on offense. At least there would be a plan and a scheme.

    But what does M3 know about defensive drafting or FA signing?
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  9. #29
    In Seattle, Carrol got there first with authority on the final 53. Schneider was second, was chosen by Pete and gets the crack at the 90 man roster.

    Its clear cut and there is some logic to it. Pete needs to live with his own choices during the year.

    In Green Bay, the HC interviewed the GM but the GM controls the roster at both ends plus FA. McCarthy has no outlet except to complain at the weekly luncheon.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  10. #30
    Welp. Murphy done fucked it up. It’s been a good, long ride boys.

  11. #31
    Captain Rat HOFer Smidgeon's Avatar
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    Doesn't Andy Reid report to the owner too? Was he hired before or after Dorsey? I guess that's irrelevant now because in its current iteration, KC operates like Seattle. Not sure if Reid has roster say so or if he's just a voice in the room to add to the decision maker.
    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

  12. #32
    Neo Rat HOFer Fritz's Avatar
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    Well, at least I'm prepared if it all goes into the shitter. I lived through the Forrest Gregg years.
    "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

    KYPack

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
    Well, at least I'm prepared if it all goes into the shitter. I lived through the Forrest Gregg years.
    Those years shaped and scarred many of us.

  14. #34
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
    Well, at least I'm prepared if it all goes into the shitter. I lived through the Forrest Gregg years.
    "you saw it."
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  15. #35
    Gute not having the authority to fire the HC is bad. This could workout badly if all these people going directly to Murphy undermines the GM. On the other hand, it sounds like there were some internal communications issues in the Packers. It's possible that TT compartmentalized the coaching from the scouting from the finances causing friction and a sense of people not being trusted. Opening up those lines could make things a whole lot better.

    Hope for the latter, be prepared to fire Murphy in case of the former.
    Fire Murphy, Gute, MLF, Barry, Senavich, etc!

  16. #36
    We are on day one of the new hire and management structure and this entire board is turning into a bunch of hand-wringing old ladies.

  17. #37
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Gute not having the authority to fire the HC is bad. This could workout badly if all these people going directly to Murphy undermines the GM. On the other hand, it sounds like there were some internal communications issues in the Packers. It's possible that TT compartmentalized the coaching from the scouting from the finances causing friction and a sense of people not being trusted. Opening up those lines could make things a whole lot better.

    Hope for the latter, be prepared to fire Murphy in case of the former.
    I suppose the worst case scenario is BG going to Murphy at the end of next season and saying "We need to fire Stubby" If Murphy says no, BG would have no choice but to resign. And that's when the org would start to turn into Cleveland, where anyone coming in would wonder about their authority.

    My guess is that the contract extension and the change in power structure was made to protect Stubby from looking like a lame duck coach for one year. Regardless, Stubby, much like Sherman, looks like he's on shaky ground, so that recruiting coaches are going to wonder if they are just going to be in town for a year.

    Of course, there is the possibility that the change in power structure is meant to strengthen Stubby's position and power overall (like an actual promotion), so that he can guarantee multiple years. Perhaps this is an alternate view of why Stubby is turning over coaches - not because he was forced to, but because he has guarantees and can take the chance of reorganizing. Still, if guys get sacked after one bad year with the MVP injured, then anything goes. (After writing that, I feel less sure about any of it ).

    Bottom line for me is that I feel like I have no way of knowing where the power resides, except of course with Murphy. If I were an interviewing coach, especially the DC, I would insist on meeting with Murphy to ask what the hell is going on.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  18. #38
    Hands-to-the-face Rat HOFer 3irty1's Avatar
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    Seems like Ted was the Otto Von Bismarck of this org in that he was the centerpiece of a diplomatic sausage machine that only he could run. He served the function that alcohol plays at family gatherings. Got a complaint? Take it into Ted's lair. Which is pitch black except for the 4" TV ted watches film on that illuminates his head like a disembodied ghost. The floor covered in empty water bottles and discarded college basketball film. You go in there and tell him what you need but find it hard to do so with the passion you felt before you crossed the threshold. Ted nods and tells you "we'll get it cleaned up" and stares at something else.

    Its too bad he had a stroke and came to work with a lunchbox full of paint chips or whatever. That was the perfect system.
    70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.

  19. #39
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teamcheez1 View Post
    We are on day one of the new hire and management structure and this entire board is turning into a bunch of hand-wringing old ladies.
    Not so much hand-wringing I think. Rather that the new power structure invites speculation, don't you agree?
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  20. #40
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3irty1 View Post
    Seems like Ted was the Otto Von Bismarck of this org in that he was the centerpiece of a diplomatic sausage machine that only he could run. He served the function that alcohol plays at family gatherings. Got a complaint? Take it into Ted's lair. Which is pitch black except for the 4" TV ted watches film on that illuminates his head like a disembodied ghost. The floor covered in empty water bottles and discarded college basketball film. You go in there and tell him what you need but find it hard to do so with the passion you felt before you crossed the threshold. Ted nods and tells you "we'll get it cleaned up" and stares at something else.

    Its too bad he had a stroke and came to work with a lunchbox full of paint chips or whatever. That was the perfect system.
    holy hell. This is more confusing than the new power structure.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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