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Thread: Mike Pettine

  1. #101
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Watch Cheat get SW and turn him into all pro (only if Brady stays and APRH)

  2. #102
    If I ran Stubby's offense, I would run 25% of the time in non-end of half/game scenarios. Play action pass 50%, shotgun pass 20%, shotgun run 5%.

    Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
    New #Titans OC Matt LaFleur has been attached to the two most play-action heavy teams in 2017 as LAR OC (29% of pass plays were PA) and in 2016 as ATL QB Coach (28%). Marcus Mariota led all QBs in YPA on play-action passes (11.1) in 2017, per PFF.

    Russell Hudson @rhud1979
    You have to run the rock (and run it well) well for play action to work, right?

    Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
    This is a common myth.
    Play-action has little to do with success running the ball, and everything to do with deceiving the defense. Play-action was very effective for teams like SEA last year, who had zero consistency running. Balance is overrated.

    Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
    Can't agree more. Been saying this forever.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    We've written about this numerous times and have another guest column on the subject coming from @guga31bb after the Super Bowl.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    What matters is not how well you run. What matters is only that you run enough to make the deception of running believeable.

    Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
    Disagree slightly here. Per game theory, you only need the credible threat of running. PA would work just fine on the very first play of the season.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    Right, PA would work fine on the first play of the season because there's an assumption that no team in the NFL runs 90% of the time.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  3. #103
    Anti Homer Rat HOFer Bretsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    I should say that I am not certain that's what he will command, but gary was suggesting that he was going to be at least a#2 somewhere. So without doing actual research, I am going to say a vet as #2 WR on his first FA deal will be making north of $8 mil per year at least.

    I think I'd take Landry for 8MIL/year
    LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?

  4. #104
    Anti Homer Rat HOFer Bretsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    I don't like this years crop to be honest. If I had to pick a name or 2 I would go with Sammy Watkins and Luke Wilson. 2 guys we could get cheap that may excel with ARod.
    That's a great answer; I could embrace Wadtkins. Not sure about Wilson
    LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?

  5. #105
    Senior Rat HOFer Bossman641's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    I don't like this years crop to be honest. If I had to pick a name or 2 I would go with Sammy Watkins and Luke Wilson. 2 guys we could get cheap that may excel with ARod.
    Im intrigued by Allen Robinson if he's looking to rehabilitate his value. Sign him to a short term deal. Going from bortles to Rodgers would be like Christmas for him.
    Go PACK

  6. #106
    Captain Rat HOFer Smidgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zool View Post
    Not sure that "forget that running the ball is an option" is accurate.

    2017 27th in carries, 14th in pass attempts, 21st in total plays, 21st in scoring
    2016 29th in carries, 5th in pass attempts, 8th in total plays, 4th in scoring
    2015 12th in carries, 18th in pass attempts, 9th in total plays, 15th in scoring
    2014 14th in carries, 20th in pass attempts, 24th in total plays, 1st in scoring
    2013 12th in carries, 18th in pass attempts, 11th in total plays, 8th in scoring
    2012 16th in carries, 16th in pass attempts, 9th in total plays, 5th in scoring
    2011 26th in carries, 14th in pass attempts, 28th in total plays, 1st in scoring
    2010 20th in carries, 16th in pass attempts, 20th in total plays, 10th in scoring
    2016 and 2017 it certainly looks true. When did EB take over as OC?
    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

  7. #107
    Postal Rat HOFer Joemailman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smidgeon View Post
    2016 and 2017 it certainly looks true. When did EB take over as OC?
    2015. 2016 can be explained by the injuries to Lacy and Starks. 2017 they were behind an awful lot. Even when they were winning early, they were being forced to come from behind.

  8. #108
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    If I ran Stubby's offense, I would run 25% of the time in non-end of half/game scenarios. Play action pass 50%, shotgun pass 20%, shotgun run 5%....

    Disagree slightly here. Per game theory, you only need the credible threat of running. PA would work just fine on the very first play of the season....

    you at least need to have a back of some kind in the backfield to run play action. Duh. So a critical factor for the GBP is how often they go empty. Sorry, I have no numbers, but seems important for run game 'threat' and ability to fool the defense. But a always, the reason you pass all the time is because your guy/offense does it so well.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  9. #109
    Captain Rat HOFer Smidgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joemailman View Post
    2015. 2016 can be explained by the injuries to Lacy and Starks. 2017 they were behind an awful lot. Even when they were winning early, they were being forced to come from behind.
    Comparing 2017 to the other year Rodgers went down, they both had running back talent although Lacy was better. They commited to running the offense through the run game that year. Maybe because their QB cupboard was bare. This year, they had their second worst rate since the super bowl, despite having two rookies who appeared to belong in the NFL.
    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

  10. #110
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smidgeon View Post
    This year, they had their second worst rate since the super bowl, despite having two rookies who appeared to belong in the NFL.
    getting behind and playing from behind for whole games does that to you. They couldn't run as effectively when teams realized they didn't need to defense any pass over 15 yards.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by mraynrand View Post
    you at least need to have a back of some kind in the backfield to run play action. Duh. So a critical factor for the GBP is how often they go empty. Sorry, I have no numbers, but seems important for run game 'threat' and ability to fool the defense. But a always, the reason you pass all the time is because your guy/offense does it so well.
    Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
    We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

    Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

    Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

  12. #112
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post

    Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.
    I remember this! That's pretty funny. It's like ancestral, collective unconscious NFL memory!
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  13. #113
    Uff Da Rat HOFer swede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mraynrand View Post
    I remember this! That's pretty funny. It's like ancestral, collective unconscious NFL memory!
    Clan of the '85 Bears
    [QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.

  14. #114
    Neo Rat HOFer Fritz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
    We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

    Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

    Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.

    My wife gets jealous when I make a pass at a picture of Drew Barrymore.
    "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

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  15. #115
    Uff Da Rat HOFer swede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
    My wife gets jealous when I make a pass at a picture of Drew Barrymore.
    Stop taping it to the back of her head.
    [QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.

  16. #116
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    Stop taping it to the back of her head.
    you're on a roll today
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

  17. #117
    Indenial Rat HOFer bobblehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    If I ran Stubby's offense, I would run 25% of the time in non-end of half/game scenarios. Play action pass 50%, shotgun pass 20%, shotgun run 5%.

    Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
    New #Titans OC Matt LaFleur has been attached to the two most play-action heavy teams in 2017 as LAR OC (29% of pass plays were PA) and in 2016 as ATL QB Coach (28%). Marcus Mariota led all QBs in YPA on play-action passes (11.1) in 2017, per PFF.

    Russell Hudson @rhud1979
    You have to run the rock (and run it well) well for play action to work, right?

    Graham Barfield @GrahamBarfield
    This is a common myth.
    Play-action has little to do with success running the ball, and everything to do with deceiving the defense. Play-action was very effective for teams like SEA last year, who had zero consistency running. Balance is overrated.

    Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
    Can't agree more. Been saying this forever.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    We've written about this numerous times and have another guest column on the subject coming from @guga31bb after the Super Bowl.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    What matters is not how well you run. What matters is only that you run enough to make the deception of running believeable.

    Brian Burke @bburkeESPN
    Disagree slightly here. Per game theory, you only need the credible threat of running. PA would work just fine on the very first play of the season.

    Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
    Right, PA would work fine on the first play of the season because there's an assumption that no team in the NFL runs 90% of the time.
    And I'm not disagreeing. Part of the problem is we line up shotgun, semi empty backfield and rarely if ever run from that formation. You have to make the D believe that you might possibly run sometimes if the moon is out in broad daylight. Stubby does not like the run and everyone knows it. We don't run enough play action to fool anyone. Our RB line up to pass block and we don't run enough screens. End result is D pins the ears back and floods the zones. Could you imagine the success play action would have if we ran the ball like we did when Hundley was QB.
    I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.

  18. #118
    Indenial Rat HOFer bobblehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mraynrand View Post
    you at least need to have a back of some kind in the backfield to run play action. Duh. So a critical factor for the GBP is how often they go empty. Sorry, I have no numbers, but seems important for run game 'threat' and ability to fool the defense. But a always, the reason you pass all the time is because your guy/offense does it so well.
    But...there is more to an offense than scoring. Keeping your D off the field rested and the other teams O off the field and out of rhythm is nice. And even if you pass well, if you give the threat of running when they sell out to stop the pass think of how much MORE effective it can be.
    I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.

  19. #119
    Indenial Rat HOFer bobblehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbmax View Post
    Michael Salfino @MichaelSalfino
    We had play action stats for a long time. You could at least see that there was no correlation between play action success and running efficiency. And it’s been obvious for decades that there is no correlation between running well and passing well, period.

    Defenses REALLY want to stop the run, often to their detriment on 1st and 2nd down. As an example, I give you the phantom play action.

    Well, now I can't find it. But someone had video of Peyton Manning faking a handoff to empty space and the ILB taking a step forward to fill against the run. It was an empty backfield. And I believe he has done this numerous times. Point is, you almost don't need to run or threaten to run, to make PA work. Its instinctual in Defenses to obsess about the run first. Its the first read for the ILBs normally.
    And again, that is my point. I'm not just whining that we don't run well, I'm whining that we don't even TRY to run too often.
    I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.

  20. #120
    Roadkill Rat HOFer mraynrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    But...there is more to an offense than scoring. Keeping your D off the field rested and the other teams O off the field and out of rhythm is nice. And even if you pass well, if you give the threat of running when they sell out to stop the pass think of how much MORE effective it can be.
    Of course, there are offenses that use the pass as effectively as a run to work the clock. The Packers put the ball in Rodgers' hands because he's that good. Unless the line is total crap, and the defense either is good enough to generate instant pass rush, on average, having Rodgers pass the ball is a better choice than handing it off. Especially when you draft linemen to pass pro. The run is a change of pace, a way to keep the defense honest. You run just enough so that the defense has to be honest.

    There are a few games I recall where Packer opponents basically keyed on pass defense and destroyed the Packers. But those defenses (Giants, Arizona, Seattle) could reasonably defense the run without keying on it at all.
    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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