MVP debate: Who's most deserving? A.Rodgers - JJ Watt - T.Brady - P.Manning - D.Murray?

[3irty1]

Just on the field Rodgers, Romo, and Brady are all a lot more valuable than two or three JJ Watts. Rodgers isn't that much better than Romo or Brady but still better by most measures. What else is left to compare him to? Himself? I also don't think Rodgers has been really any better this year than he was in 2012, but he should have won MVP in 2012 as well.

The comparison to the oscars doesn't quite work because players don't all have the same job. The MVP award isn't "who was best at their respective job" and rightfully so. My biggest criticism is that it doesn't seem take into account salary. Like Patler said, if all the QBs are roughly the same when it comes to their contribution to winning football games, shouldn't the lowest salary win? He literately provides the best value which seems important for MVP. I guess I'd have to vote for Russell Wilson.

[Patler]

Just on the field Rodgers, Romo, and Brady are all a lot more valuable than two or three JJ Watts. Rodgers isn't that much better than Romo or Brady but still better by most measures. What else is left to compare him to? Himself? I also don't think Rodgers has been really any better this year than he was in 2012, but he should have won MVP in 2012 as well.

The comparison to the oscars doesn't quite work because players don't all have the same job. The MVP award isn't "who was best at their respective job" and rightfully so. My biggest criticism is that it doesn't seem take into account salary. Like Patler said, if all the QBs are roughly the same when it comes to their contribution to winning football games, shouldn't the lowest salary win? He literately provides the best value which seems important for MVP. I guess I'd have to vote for Russell Wilson.

Interesting............... I hadn't ever thought of it that way. Performance/$.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just on the field Rodgers, Romo, and Brady are all a lot more valuable than two or three JJ Watts. Rodgers isn't that much better than Romo or Brady but still better by most measures. What else is left to compare him to? Himself? I also don't think Rodgers has been really any better this year than he was in 2012, but he should have won MVP in 2012 as well.

The comparison to the oscars doesn't quite work because players don't all have the same job. The MVP award isn't "who was best at their respective job" and rightfully so. My biggest criticism is that it doesn't seem take into account salary. Like Patler said, if all the QBs are roughly the same when it comes to their contribution to winning football games, shouldn't the lowest salary win? He literately provides the best value which seems important for MVP. I guess I'd have to vote for Russell Wilson.

Wouldn't it make more sense to consider the QB with the highest salary the most valuable? Isn't a Porsche more valuable than a Chevy?

[King Friday]

Wouldn't it make more sense to consider the QB with the highest salary the most valuable? Isn't a Porsche more valuable than a Chevy?

Or is the CHEAPEST QB that produces highly most valuable...because his salary allows the team to procure talent elsewhere.

I guess Russell Wilson wins that debate.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Or is the CHEAPEST QB that produces highly most valuable...because his salary allows the team to procure talent elsewhere.

I guess Russell Wilson wins that debate.

Or is the most expensive QB who produces most highly the most valuable...because you don't need the highest quality talent on the rest of your team? It still comes down to the question of how do you determine different levels of production?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Just on the field Rodgers, Romo, and Brady are all a lot more valuable than two or three JJ Watts.

I'll disagree with this. You put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense and that alone would get you 12 wins with an average QB and offense with the pressure and run stopping ability he has. You put 3 on the DL, forget about opponents having any offense.

[King Friday]

I'll disagree with this. You put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense and that alone would get you 12 wins with an average QB and offense with the pressure and run stopping ability he has. You put 3 on the DL, forget about opponents having any offense.

I agree...if Watt had a counterpart, then Houston's defense becomes good enough to win on their own.

[pbmax]

I'll disagree with this. You put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense and that alone would get you 12 wins with an average QB and offense with the pressure and run stopping ability he has. You put 3 on the DL, forget about opponents having any offense.

The 2014 Rams would like a word with you. They have four first round picks on the D line and dominate the LOS. But they are 6-10.

[King Friday]

The 2014 Rams would like a word with you. They have four first round picks on the D line and dominate the LOS. But they are 6-10.

They don't have a JJ Watt caliber player IMO...although I think your point is valid that they have enough talent to compare as a whole.

However, you missed the part about having an average QB/offense. The Rams do not have that whatsoever. That is why they are 6-10.

[pbmax]

They don't have a JJ Watt caliber player IMO...although I think your point is valid that they have enough talent to compare as a whole.

However, you missed the part about having an average QB/offense. The Rams do not have that whatsoever. That is why they are 6-10.

Yes, but both my point and your counterpoint show the shortcoming of CC's quasi metric about Watt. It is entirely dependent on the other side of the ball performing a certain way. Comparatively, the Packers were 5-3 at the bye week while the D was playing like death, and that included a game where he was limited by injury.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yes, but both my point and your counterpoint show the shortcoming of CC's quasi metric about Watt. It is entirely dependent on the other side of the ball performing a certain way. Comparatively, the Packers were 5-3 at the bye week while the D was playing like death, and that included a game where he was limited by injury.

My point was a contention that 2 JJ Watt's on the DL with how he played this year is an outstanding DL. You're looking at 35+ sacks from 2 players. That's far superior to the Rams DL who can't even get 2/3 that total from 4 guys.

You cannot use the Rams record to highlight that it was the defense's fault but ignore the offense which was 28th in points scored.

[pbmax]

My point was a contention that 2 JJ Watt's on the DL with how he played this year is an outstanding DL. You're looking at 35+ sacks from 2 players. That's far superior to the Rams DL who can't even get 2/3 that total from 4 guys.

You cannot use the Rams record to highlight that it was the defense's fault but ignore the offense which was 28th in points scored.

In response to 3irty1's point about the top QBs being more valuable than 2 or 3 Watts, you claim that two Watts would make a Defense elite.

put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense

My point is that two Watt's don't make a defense elite and then you STILL need help from the offense to have a winning record. This all supports 3irty1's point.

[Pugger]

The 2014 Rams would like a word with you. They have four first round picks on the D line and dominate the LOS. But they are 6-10.

Without a QB you just don't win. AZ got most of their wins with Palmer (7-0) and Stanton but once these 2 guys were lost they were basically screwed. I suspect had Palmer not got hurt AZ might be the NFCW champas and the #1 seed instead of Seattle. Because this is a QB driven league the best QB in the playoffs will win the MVP. I have stated this before but in 2009 Brees had better stats than Manning but the Saints didn't win their division so PM won it much to the consternation of NO fans.

[vince]

Because this is a QB driven league the best QB in the playoffs will win the MVP. I have stated this before but in 2009 Brees had better stats than Manning but the Saints didn't win their division so PM won it much to the consternation of NO fans.

50 members of the media will vote on the 2014 Associated Press NFL Most Valuable Player (MVP) award before the playoffs start on January 3.

.

Edit - Oops. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying there Pugger. Sorry about that.

[Pugger]

I'll disagree with this. You put 2 JJ Watts on the same DL with the stats he has (not including his offensive work) and you have an elite defense and that alone would get you 12 wins with an average QB and offense with the pressure and run stopping ability he has. You put 3 on the DL, forget about opponents having any offense.

But you still need a QB. Just ask AZ. They had a great D that got worn down because their offense was so anemic.