More Banjo: @ Saints Week Oh Who the *$%&! Cares

[denverYooper]

As you know, I don't know a lot about the technicalities of defensive football, so I defer to you on that.

But I do think I can recognize talent...and talent will out in my opinion over any scheme. And when I went back to check on Dom's first years in Green Bay, starting in 2009, I have to say my impression is that the players on those early teams were far more talented than the players we have now.

I wrote earlier that we have the players to compete. In reality, maybe we don't. Maybe several years in a row of low draft choices and FA inactivity are catching up with us. Maybe Dom is scheming the hell out of things because he just doesn't have the players to accomplish what he'd really like to.

Yeah, look at the Broncos defense this year. They bought Talib, Ward, and Ware and now Von Miller is playing back up to his All-pro ability on a cheap contract (3.25 mil this year). Suddenly they look like the 96 Packers.

[Pugger]

Yeah, look at the Broncos defense this year. They bought Talib, Ward, and Ware and now Von Miller is playing back up to his All-pro ability on a cheap contract (3.25 mil this year). Suddenly they look like the 96 Packers.

It will be interesting to see how long they'll be this dominate...

[denverYooper]

It will be interesting to see how long they'll be this dominate...

Until they have to pay Von Miller.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yeah, look at the Broncos defense this year. They bought Talib, Ward, and Ware and now Von Miller is playing back up to his All-pro ability on a cheap contract (3.25 mil this year). Suddenly they look like the 96 Packers.

Exactly. One reason I think TT and MM don't like to bring in FA's is that there system is so damn cerebral and complicated. They like young guys who grew up in the system rather than old dogs who maybe won't learn new tricks fast enough. That strategy might be sound if the young guys drafted are really good, but if they are mediocre, then it falls apart.

An example is Micah Hyde. The guy is good but not good enough to plan on and develop into a top notch starter, as opposed to a real, natural talent and high draft choice like Clinton-Dix.

You get enamored with these mediocre guys and before long you get to thinking they are better than they really are.

We've got a lot of undrafted, low draft choice, mediocre talent on our defense. Even our higher draft choices are not elite. Clay is the exception. Maybe Morgan Burnett. But who knows about Datone Jones? And Nick Perry? Mike Daniels?

Who are the potential All Pro's down the road on this Packer defense?

[pbmax]

Exactly. One reason I think TT and MM don't like to bring in FA's is that there system is so damn cerebral and complicated. They like young guys who grew up in the system rather than old dogs who maybe won't learn new tricks fast enough. That strategy might be sound if the young guys drafted are really good, but if they are mediocre, then it falls apart.

Interesting point. Usually the vet case is made that the Packers (and esp. Capers) needs vets because of their usual callow and inexperienced yutes. In fact, Le Beau doesn't want young players to have to play in Pitts D.

But I don't think Peppers has exhibited too many problems with his learning curve. I think the issue is mainly finance, risk and downside of careers with FAs. I doubt the Packers system is too complicated that it hampers FAs.

But perhaps the best point is the run D problem itself. Run D is keeping your defense in shape and on target (gap integrity). There are fewer lessens more basic than that in football but somehow the Packers need to relearn it every season. If Capers was being too complicated, it would show up more easily in the backfield.

[Fritz]

Interesting point. Usually the vet case is made that the Packers (and esp. Capers) needs vets because of their usual callow and inexperienced yutes. In fact, Le Beau doesn't want young players to have to play in Pitts D.

But I don't think Peppers has exhibited too many problems with his learning curve. I think the issue is mainly finance, risk and downside of careers with FAs. I doubt the Packers system is too complicated that it hampers FAs.

But perhaps the best point is the run D problem itself. Run D is keeping your defense in shape and on target (gap integrity). There are fewer lessens more basic than that in football but somehow the Packers need to relearn it every season. If Capers was being too complicated, it would show up more easily in the backfield.

This is what's so maddening. Every year, the defensive players and coahces and MM talk about needing to to re-teach lower pad level and proper tackling form.

This past year, MM finally admitted something else needed to be done. So there was that whole confusing (for me) scheme-and-personnel song and dance, but here we are, half way through, and what's MM saying about this still-lousy defense? They need to tackle better.

Every year, the defense is the weak link, and ST is not far behind. Ted's 2012 defensive draft was mostly a bust, and Perry hasn't been much of a first rounder. So some blame to Ted, for sure. He seems to have a hard time drafting well on the defensive line and, outside of Matthews, in the linebacking corps.

But MM is the lead coach, and as others have said, he's on defensive coach #2, and it's been bad for about three-and-a-half seasons now, with some minor small stretches of good defense (a few games at the beginning of last season).

But it's not, and has not been since 2010, a defense that is going to get you past the first round, unless your first round opponent's QB is Joe Webb.

Something more than "we gotta tackle better" has to happen at the end of this season. Whether it's MM re-evaluating how his program can produce such good offenses and shitty defenses, or whether he shit-cans Capers and company, I don't know. But something's gotta happen, unless there's a magical second-half turnaround.

But even the most optimistic Packer fans have to be pretty dubious about that happening.