ARE WE GIVING AROD A FREE PASS ??????????????????

[Smidgeon]

No. Rodgers is the second best qb in the league. Rodgers had better stats than Brady but being great is not just about stats. Brady is number one, this is not even a debate. Its really not. No one leads a team/offense better, no one wants to win more than him, and no one is more clutch. Those attributes are clearly superior to Rodgers. What he did in the fourth quarter is legendary. What do you think the score of that game would have been had the Pats been given 5 turnovers?

Saying Brady is better is not an insult to Rodgers. I think he's the second best QB in the league. With the game on the line, in the biggest stage, with everything on the line, I would be lying if I said I want Rodgers over Brady. Brady won four superbowls with game winning drives, would have 6 if not for a few plays, has been to 9 AFC championship games (almost every year), and lets not forget he's 37. Brady >> Rodgers.

These are all arbitrary designations assigned by third parties without statistical proof without defining what "clutch" means independent of a supporting defense (Brady would have lost yesterday if it wasn't for his defense's INT in the final minutes).

So no. Those attributes aren't "clearly superior". They might be. It's possible. But logically there is no way to definitively say that. Intangibles are intangible for a reason.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

These are all arbitrary designations assigned by third parties without statistical proof without defining what "clutch" means independent of a supporting defense (Brady would have lost yesterday if it wasn't for his defense's INT in the final minutes).

So no. Those attributes aren't "clearly superior". They might be. It's possible. But logically there is no way to definitively say that. Intangibles are intangible for a reason.

Four game winning drives in the superbowl? Rodgers had two/three fourth quarter drives against Seattle were all he needed was a few first downs and the game is over.

[Teamcheez1]

Four game winning drives in the superbowl? Rodgers had two/three fourth quarter drives against Seattle were all he needed was a few first downs and the game is over.

And AR was throwing on every play? If I'm not mistaken, there was at least one drive in the 4th qtr where three consecutive plays were runs for no yardage.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

And AR was throwing on every play? If I'm not mistaken, there was at least one drive in the 4th qtr where three consecutive plays were runs for no yardage.

I'm a die hard packer fan and big supporter of AR. He's just not as good as Tom Brady though. Had Adams open on 3rd down to Quarless. Had bad pass to Cobb on 3rd and 6. I'm not talking down by ten needing two long touchdown drives in the superbowl with the game on the line. I'm talking big lead and a few first downs. This is not a debate. Throwing ability, arm strength, etc, etc, Rodgers is great.. He will go down as one of the best of all time.

But its not a coincidence the pats make it to the AFC title game almost every year.

[mraynrand]

This thread is just getting tiring. People arguing against Rodgers aren't going concede any extenuating circumstances or factors, and I'm not going to concede that Rodgers sucks and that there weren't other factors.

Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

[yetisnowman]

These are all arbitrary designations assigned by third parties without statistical proof without defining what "clutch" means independent of a supporting defense (Brady would have lost yesterday if it wasn't for his defense's INT in the final minutes).

So no. Those attributes aren't "clearly superior". They might be. It's possible. But logically there is no way to definitively say that. Intangibles are intangible for a reason.

4th quarter comebacks and playoff wins are not an arbitrary designation. A-Rod's lack of clutch, signature moments are obvious to people who analyze qb play. Tom Brady has 35 regular season 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season. A- Rod has 8. Jay Cutler has 17. Alex freaking Smith has 14. Tom Brady has engineered a game winning drive in 4 super bowls. A-rod has 1 game winning drive in the playoffs ever. Russell Wilson in 3 years has 3. Nothing arbitrary about that at all. Those are numbers. Numbers don't lie.

[pbmax]

4th quarter comebacks and playoff wins are not an arbitrary designation. A-Rod's lack of clutch, signature moments are obvious to people who analyze qb play. Tom Brady has 35 regular season 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season. A- Rod has 8. Jay Cutler has 17. Alex freaking Smith has 14. Tom Brady has engineered a game winning drive in 4 super bowls. A-rod has 1 game winning drive in the playoffs ever. Russell Wilson in 3 years has 3. Nothing arbitrary about that at all. Those are numbers. Numbers don't lie.

Doesn't the fact that Alex Smith and Jay Cutler have significant fourth quarter comebacks make you wonder about the efficacy of that measure?

[yetisnowman]

Doesn't the fact that Alex Smith and Jay Cutler have significant fourth quarter comebacks make you wonder about the efficacy of that measure?

Not at all. Does it mean they are better quarterbacks? Absolutely not. But it's dumbfounding to me that some of you guys think that a quarterback having a bad record in close games as a starter is irrelevant, or some cliched misrepresentation. He underperforms in late game situations in tight games. And yes I am designating the term underperforming. If Jay Cutler has more than double late game comeback drives than you I will say you are underperforming in that area.

[pbmax]

Not at all. Does it mean they are better quarterbacks? Absolutely not. But it's dumbfounding to me that some of you guys think that a quarterback having a bad record in close games as a starter is irrelevant, or some cliched misrepresentation. He underperforms in late game situations in tight games. And yes I am designating the term underperforming. If Jay Cutler has more than double late game comeback drives than you I will say you are underperforming in that area.

Dig a little deeper and you will find some research on how many times Rodgers' has led a 4th Quarter comeback and then lost the game due to defense or Special Team errors.

[mraynrand]

Numbers don't lie.

in football, rarely do they tell the whole story. My experience in football analysis is that people use numbers to support all sorts of claims that may or may not be consistent with careful analysis of entire games and seasons. Because unlike tennis or swimming or running any distance, football is a team sport, and a quarterbacks' numbers, in particular, are influenced dramatically by game situations. This board for example, has analyzed 'winning drive' 'comeback' and 'less than four point victories' ad nauseam, trying to figure out what they tell about quarterback play, and little if anything was agreed upon as much as the fact that such narrowly defined categories typically reveal very little about a quarterback.