Ray Rice

[wist43]

A lot of people agree with you about how self-righteousness is the worst but few have the stones to express it in a self-righteous rant. You sir are an artist.

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

[pbmax]

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

[wist43]

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."

[Striker]

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."

It's a casino. There is going to be surveillance everywhere.

BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING CASINO.

This is not at all the same thing as having cameras in their homes, or in their cars, etc.

You really are going off the reservation with this one. Holy cow.

[pbmax]

No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

I find your definition of concern for his family quite flawed. Ignoring it, sweeping it under the rug because its private business does nothing to help.

Does it need to be on the news? No. Did it need to be made public and the police involved? Yes.

[Fosco33]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

[pbmax]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

Brent might be a bad example, though video might have affected his criminal prosecution. He was probably punished according to the Drug and Alcohol Policy by the NFL and it did not have options under than policy, its controlled by the CBA.

Which is precisely why the Personal Conduct Policy has backfired so tremendously in Rice's case. Because Roger is judge, jury and executioner he has virtually unlimited discretion. And almost no one to back him up except by personal testimonial. The Policy is unpopular with the players so they won't help. So when his 2 game decree was met with near universal derision, he immediately began to backtrack.

Remember, the NFL is always looking for new revenue streams and women are one demo they are targeting. The reason the owners like Rogers is that he has been helping increase revenue by leaps and bounds. This incident is a threat to that. Pink clothes and all.

So while Roger is in retreat, they are vulnerable to other revelations or bad PR. When the tape leaks, they are in a full fledged panic. Yes they are hypocrites, but they are hypocrites because this was never about justice, it was about potential football revenue.

Had Goodell experience outside of football, or had he listened to Tagliabue's critique, he would have a similar system to Personal Conduct that they had for Drugs and Alcohol. He would have had a system to rely on and back him up, plus arbitration or access to courts. Retreat wouldn't have been necessary, They could have changed the policy to issue harsher suspensions to satisfy critics and been done with it.

[Fosco33]

Brent might be a bad example, though video might have affected his criminal prosecution. He was probably punished according to the Drug and Alcohol Policy by the NFL and it did not have options under than policy, its controlled by the CBA.

Which is precisely why the Personal Conduct Policy has backfired so tremendously in Rice's case. Because Roger is judge, jury and executioner he has virtually unlimited discretion. And almost no one to back him up except by personal testimonial. The Policy is unpopular with the players so they won't help. So when his 2 game decree was met with near universal derision, he immediately began to backtrack.

Remember, the NFL is always looking for new revenue streams and women are one demo they are targeting. The reason the owners like Rogers is that he has been helping increase revenue by leaps and bounds. This incident is a threat to that. Pink clothes and all.

So while Roger is in retreat, they are vulnerable to other revelations or bad PR. When the tape leaks, they are in a full fledged panic. Yes they are hypocrites, but they are hypocrites because this was never about justice, it was about potential football revenue.

Had Goodell experience outside of football, or had he listened to Tagliabue's critique, he would have a similar system to Personal Conduct that they had for Drugs and Alcohol. He would have had a system to rely on and back him up, plus arbitration or access to courts. Retreat wouldn't have been necessary, They could have changed the policy to issue harsher suspensions to satisfy critics and been done with it.

Totally agree. With his conduct policy, he's now creating a 'moral standard' by measuring games suspended.

2 games for a hit to a head in a game designed to hit an opponent can now be compared to hitting your wife/gfriend/etc, raping a girl at a club, or ranting on the league via social media

What's he to do about Ray McDonald? (jeez, I'm not sure I'd draft anymore Rays... Lewis, Rice, McDonald).

[pbmax]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

At this juncture, Czaban's observation is both correct and has been explained.

The NFL had to overreact after it under reacted at the Raven's (and Rice and Wife's behest). The Ravens were worried about the M&T Bank sponsorship. They should have been more worried about possession of the tape and their cover up of their knowledge of it (they knew it wasn't only a slap gone horribly wrong).

If Goodell had any actual power, he would fine the team and suspend Raven's officials for covering up what they knew. He would fine his own NFL Security staff. And then he would reduce his salary or resign for getting so thoroughly played by amateurs. The Ravens got this over the League Office only because he hadn't seen the video.

The only question is whether Goodell participated or was just incompetent and happy to spout platitudes.

[3irty1]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

[wist43]

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

[Striker]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

Because if there are two things that are equitable it's this and the Holocaust.

[3irty1]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

So you're a benevolent martyr for standing up to your moral inferiors by calling them out for the monsters they are, I'm one of them for thinking you're a hypocrite, and anyone else is weak and corrupt for not joining you?

[pbmax]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

I'm sorry, but is Ray Rice currently even detained? Could this comparison be any less apt?

There is a significant difference between condemnation of an actual act by an individual and incarceration without cause.

[Striker]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

[wist43]

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

Again, I'm not defending Ray Rice or his actions - I'm saying let the man and his wife work out their problems on their own. Let him pay his penalty thru the judicial system, and have some perspective with respect to his livlihood and what that means for his family.

You are harming his wife all over again, and you are harming his family. Leave them alone, and let them heal and move forward with their lives - it is mind-boggling that this view is considered heresy.

[Striker]

Again, I'm not defending Ray Rice or his actions - I'm saying let the man and his wife work out their problems on their own. Let him pay his penalty thru the judicial system, and have some perspective with respect to his livlihood and what that means for his family.

You are harming his wife all over again, and you are harming his family. Leave them alone, and let them heal and move forward with their lives - it is mind-boggling that this view is considered heresy.

Except as we've seen the judicial system is willing to cut a deal for many reasons (fame, lack of a victim testimonial, etc) but it's sadly no different across many domestic violence cases (and other crimes as well). In this case, he has to submit to counseling and then he's done.

I don't think many people's changed their mind on this case after the video leaked. Those that thought the punishment was too light the first time still thought the punishment was too light.

Not only that, but if the story is true that the NFL and/or the Ravens hadn't seen the video until it was leaked, then they also have every right as employers to terminate him if they see fit.

[wist43]

Except as we've seen the judicial system is willing to cut a deal for many reasons (fame, lack of a victim testimonial, etc) but it's sadly no different across many domestic violence cases (and other crimes as well). In this case, he has to submit to counseling and then he's done.

I don't think many people's changed their mind on this case after the video leaked. Those that thought the punishment was too light the first time still thought the punishment was too light.

Not only that, but if the story is true that the NFL and/or the Ravens hadn't seen the video until it was leaked, then they also have every right as employers to terminate him if they see fit.

The appropriate place to vent disagreement over the punishment he received from the ADA, is the peoples state representatives, the District Attorneys Office, and the Governor. Stoning and scarlett lettering went out a long time ago.

The only people involved here are Rice and his wife; and apparently she just wants all this shit to blow over; but of course "the people" won't leave it alone, and are determined to ruin Ray and Janay's lives.

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Other examples of this idiocy spreading its ugliness - the San Francisco 49ers radio broadcaster was suspended for 2 games b/c he said something to the effect of, '... what was she thinking, backing her husband'?

Paul George, the Indian Pacers G, tweeted something to the effect, '... if only people took police abuse this seriously' - and Larry Bird brought fury against him and forced him to apologize. Maybe he said something I didn't see, but I certainly didn't see anything that he said worthy of any comment whatsoever...

What's going on here on a societal level is far more disturbing than anything Ray Rice did.

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On a personal note, my wife came home from work today and said a girl at her work was fired today b/c of something she posted on Facebook. She was on medical leave, for a knee injury, but posted pics of her attending a public event in which apparently didn't look injured. My wife tells me that this woman didn't have a good work record, but it was the Facebook post that broke the camel's back, and landed her on the unemployment line.

This social media shit is completely out of control... and it's b/c people can no longer control themselves and mind their own fucking business. You take care of you, and I'll take care of me... that used to be a staple of American citizenship - long since forgotten now I guess.

Everyone is everyone else's judge, and the walls have eyes and ears - my wife went on to say that there is a spy at their work who reports everyone for anything. Long time, good employees are now being hauled in front of HR, and it is causing severe morale problems at her workplace.

The PC bullies are doing far more damage to Janay Rice and to society than anything Ray Rice did. It's sick, and it needs to stop.

[wist43]

I remember reading an article about 20 years ago that talked about the popularity of "reality" shows in the U.K. and Europe - before that poison had spread here. The shows centered around the pack mentality of isolating the target, and then heaping abuse upon them as they were disgraced off the show.

The article talked about the possible societal consequences of such behavior and of such a worldview - that it would lead to a loss of perspective and diminishment of socially appropriate behavior for those that became engrossed is such nonsense.

Of course there was no vision of what "social media" would become - but with our society now awash with morons - that article is certainly proving to be prophetic.

[pbmax]

The only people involved here are Rice and his wife; and apparently she just wants all this shit to blow over; but of course "the people" won't leave it alone, and are determined to ruin Ray and Janay's lives.

He has earned millions of dollars from his career. She is in no trouble. This is your definition of a ruined life? Do you realize how much actual suffering you are minimizing by using that adjective to describe a fabulously wealthy man? That he is denied, temporarily, employment in one business because he publicly embarrassed himself and his employer.

BTW, many Ravens fans are backing Rice. So I don't think his career is done yet.

This social media shit is completely out of control... and it's b/c people can no longer control themselves and mind their own fucking business. You take care of you, and I'll take care of me... that used to be a staple of American citizenship - long since forgotten now I guess.

This is actually nothing new and has little to do with social media. Someone I know very well was followed for a week after a car accident by an investigator for an insurance company to gather evidence against any claims for injury that might eventually occur. Social media didn't invent people trying to save their business money. Its just another window to peek in.