Mike Pettine

[pbmax]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

[Smidgeon]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

Fingers crossed Gute is more like TT than most of the forum desires.

[gbgary]

Fingers crossed Gute is more like TT...

after Rodgers moves on and the sun explodes...fine, but until then it should be win-now.

[mraynrand]

after Rodgers moves on and the sun explodes...fine, but until then it should be win-now.

Let's say this is right. Now do the heavy lifting. Given the salary cap, who do they cut and who do they sign to win now? Specific players, please.

[gbgary]

Let's say this is right. Now do the heavy lifting. Given the salary cap, who do they cut and who do they sign to win now? Specific players, please.

they're some $22m+- under the cap now. they don't have to cut anyone. they have a month before the league year begins to make more room if they think they need it (they can do it later but there's a cost to it). they have to decide if they're going for the short-term win-now plan or go for the long-term plan. i don't think they'll do the long term thing as it means (imo) trading Rodgers to cle for their 2 #1's+++. doing so would get them a qb at #1, pick #4 and #14 to get whoever, end all cap issues, sign anyone they want in free agency, and collect later for anything else they could get in the deal. since we know that ain't happenin', the short term is all that's left...which is 3-5 years years max imo. the 3 names constantly being brought up for cutting are Jordy, Cobb, and Clay. i think they want to keep them all so if they're willing to take a cut and extend for a year or two, fine. that'll get them a little more room...which is likely to be eaten up by Rodger's extension. cutting them is a step backward imo. this year the d is going to go through a big learning curve so i don't expect them to be so great. losing Clay's experience would hurt. this year's schedule is a killer. i say let them play out their contracts and aim for 2019 when $30m+ falls off the payroll and the cap goes up another $15m.

edit: ya know, after typing all that...with next year's learning curve and schedule, why put off the $30m drop-off a year? cut the 3 of them now and start the fix now. that should get them a better pick next year than keeping them another year would.

[Joemailman]

they're some $22m+- under the cap now. they don't have to cut anyone. they have a month before the league year begins to make more room if they think they need it (they can do it later but there's a cost to it). they have to decide if they're going for the short-term win-now plan or go for the long-term plan. i don't think they'll do the long term thing as it means (imo) trading Rodgers to cle for their 2 #1's+++. doing so would get them a qb at #1, pick #4 and #14 to get whoever, end all cap issues, sign anyone they want in free agency, and collect later for anything else they could get in the deal. since we know that ain't happenin', the short term is all that's left...which is 3-5 years years max imo. the 3 names constantly being brought up for cutting are Jordy, Cobb, and Clay. i think they want to keep them all so if they're willing to take a cut and extend for a year or two, fine. that'll get them a little more room...which is likely to be eaten up by Rodger's extension. cutting them is a step backward imo. this year the d is going to go through a big learning curve so i don't expect them to be so great. losing Clay's experience would hurt. this year's schedule is a killer. i say let them play out their contracts and aim for 2019 when $30m+ falls off the payroll and the cap goes up another $15m.

They might need to cut someone if they want to sign Burnett. Otherwise, they're okay. I'm torn on Jordy. He looked really slow the 2nd half of the season. Still, he had 6 TD receptions with Rodgers playing, so he's still someone Rodgers likes to go to.

[gbgary]

They might need to cut someone if they want to sign Burnett. Otherwise, they're okay. I'm torn on Jordy. He looked really slow the 2nd half of the season. Still, he had 6 TD receptions with Rodgers playing, so he's still someone Rodgers likes to go to.

see my edit to that post.

[mraynrand]

they're some $22m+- under the cap now. they don't have to cut anyone. they have a month before the league year begins to make more room if they think they need it (they can do it later but there's a cost to it). they have to decide if they're going for the short-term win-now plan or go for the long-term plan. i don't think they'll do the long term thing as it means (imo) trading Rodgers to cle for their 2 #1's+++. doing so would get them a qb at #1, pick #4 and #14 to get whoever, end all cap issues, sign anyone they want in free agency, and collect later for anything else they could get in the deal. since we know that ain't happenin', the short term is all that's left...which is 3-5 years years max imo. the 3 names constantly being brought up for cutting are Jordy, Cobb, and Clay. i think they want to keep them all so if they're willing to take a cut and extend for a year or two, fine. that'll get them a little more room...which is likely to be eaten up by Rodger's extension. cutting them is a step backward imo. this year the d is going to go through a big learning curve so i don't expect them to be so great. losing Clay's experience would hurt. this year's schedule is a killer. i say let them play out their contracts and aim for 2019 when $30m+ falls off the payroll and the cap goes up another $15m.

edit: ya know, after typing all that...with next year's learning curve and schedule, why put off the $30m drop-off a year? cut the 3 of them now and start the fix now. that should get them a better pick next year than keeping them another year would.

So who do they sign to win now? I assumed there was a player on another roster who TT would never sign, but maybe BG would sign that would lead to a championship. You know, Belichickism. But who is that guy(s)?

[gbgary]

So who do they sign to win now? I assumed there was a player on another roster who TT would never sign, but maybe BG would sign that would lead to a championship. You know, Belichickism. But who is that guy(s)?

in a short-term win-now (while Rodgers is still here 3-5yrs) you sign actual upgrades where you can. Malcolm Butler or Bashaud Breeland at cb perhaps, Tre Boston to take Burnett's place, or Austin Seferian-Jenkins at TE. that's if they keep Jordy, Cobb, Mathews. if they let one of the wrs go they could sign Jarvis Landry. if they let Mathews go they could sign Avery Williamson as an ilb and draft Clays successor. just some ideas.

[ZachMN]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

I agree with this- I just wish TT would have been better with the D linemen. I feel that we had more busts than serviceable players. I am willing to bet most of the GM's have ups and downs in terms of 'success' however we agree to measure that objectively. And I maybe wrong in my evaluation of his D lineman success...I guess I just want players who are more dominating thus allowing us a decent pass rush. But to your last statement Hoody genius is just that and somehow he gets players to buy in and then cash in via winning.

[pbmax]

I agree with this- I just wish TT would have been better with the D linemen. I feel that we had more busts than serviceable players. I am willing to bet most of the GM's have ups and downs in terms of 'success' however we agree to measure that objectively. And I maybe wrong in my evaluation of his D lineman success...I guess I just want players who are more dominating thus allowing us a decent pass rush. But to your last statement Hoody genius is just that and somehow he gets players to buy in and then cash in via winning.

I do buy the idea that Ted ignored FA and trades at his own peril. And at times it has hurt, though no one remembers that FA is no panacea when they are criticizing. Of the three reasonably priced FAs this year, one played well (Evans) and he was a pros pro. Very much like Peppers.

The team needs an approach to find the best value (production/cost) to slim down the needs before the draft and actually allow some more BPA during the draft.

But more free agency with a poor hit rate isn't going to fix the team. And Ted is no longer drafting. And his record with his team was Top 2-3 in the league. Tough act to follow even with Rodgers.

[Joemailman]

I do buy the idea that Ted ignored FA and trades at his own peril. And at times it has hurt, though no one remembers that FA is no panacea when they are criticizing. Of the three reasonably priced FAs this year, one played well (Evans) and he was a pros pro. Very much like Peppers.

The team needs an approach to find the best value (production/cost) to slim down the needs before the draft and actually allow some more BPA during the draft.

But more free agency with a poor hit rate isn't going to fix the team. And Ted is no longer drafting. And his record with his team was Top 2-3 in the league. Tough act to follow even with Rodgers.

Except maybe he wasn't top 2 or 3 in recent years. Some real misses in Ist 3 rounds (Jerel Worthy, Khyri Thornton, Rollins, Spriggs, Fackrell). Maybe Gutey can do better.

[pbmax]

Except maybe he wasn't top 2 or 3 in recent years. Some real misses in Ist 3 rounds (Jerel Worthy, Khyri Thornton, Rollins, Spriggs, Fackrell). Maybe Gutey can do better.

His 2011-13 drafts were poor overall, especially on D. I still think Spriggs is the starting RT next year. Fackrell is serviceable and moved his play up a notch this year, though still no pass rush.

I would consider neither to be in Worthy range, who couldn't do what he was signed to do (penetrate) and was terrible at holding the point of attack.

Rollins, should he be able to be healthy for a year, will be interesting to watch. So I think the book is still out on more recent efforts.

[Smidgeon]

Except maybe he wasn't top 2 or 3 in recent years. Some real misses in Ist 3 rounds (Jerel Worthy, Khyri Thornton, Rollins, Spriggs, Fackrell). Maybe Gutey can do better.

Nobody has no misses.

[ThunderDan]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

Seattle started having trouble once they had to start paying their drafted players 2nd contracts. Pay your qb $750,000 a year. No problem keeping you pro bowlers on D. The Sea D has been picked apart now that Wilson is making fair market value.

[bobblehead]

Seattle started having trouble once they had to start paying their drafted players 2nd contracts. Pay your qb $750,000 a year. No problem keeping you pro bowlers on D. The Sea D has been picked apart now that Wilson is making fair market value.

But..But, Schneider makes brilliant moves like trading a 2nd for Sheldon Richardson that keeps him right in the superbowl hunt. He uses FA and trades and is brilliant. Look at how he traded an all pro center for Jimmy Graham and they went on to win multiple super bowls.

[Bretsky]

But..But, Schneider makes brilliant moves like trading a 2nd for Sheldon Richardson that keeps him right in the superbowl hunt. He uses FA and trades and is brilliant. Look at how he traded an all pro center for Jimmy Graham and they went on to win multiple super bowls.

Schneider would probably be our GM if we could have got him for nothing
Same # of SB's as Ted in I think less time and had the coach just given Lynch the ball............

Well either way they are both currently farts in the wind.

[Bretsky]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

So you are saying we should blame Ted for hiring the wrong coach ?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

One thing people forget is that GMs and coaches cannot swapped out according to mathematical principles. You can't use the transitive property or substitution property.

Ted plus more FA and trades doesn't equal Belichick. Doesn't work that way. People have different skills and do a variable job of hiring other good people (and then listening to them) about things they do not excel in. Ted built an org that drafted like their life depended on it, mainly because it does. The guys who would be more FA or trade friendly? McKenzie is going backward in Oakland and may have taken a drastic hit in power, Schneider's team is falling apart on defense without a bevy of young top picks and Dorsey got fired from a team that is truly the definition of one and done.

Odds are hugely against Gutekunst being as good at building a team as Ted or Ron. Even if he adds some more FAs or trades for people.

And I would wager my last dollar the small difference between the Packers and the Patriots over the last decade plus was coaching, not personnel.

More likely, the Pats might've been capable of winning a fluke Super Bowl without Brady, with all other things being equal, but no way they win 6 (yes, they will win the 6th on Sunday) without Brady.

Tom Brady is an elite QB, the champion of the Pats. As Belichick himself has proved time and time again, the math is simple: Belichickism + Elite QB = Super Bowl wins.

The Packers have an elite QB on their roster, do they not?

[mraynrand]

More likely, the Pats might've been capable of winning a fluke Super Bowl without Brady, with all other things being equal, but no way they win 6 (yes, they will win the 6th on Sunday) without Brady.

Tom Brady is an elite QB, the champion of the Pats. As Belichick himself has proved time and time again, the math is simple: Belichickism + Elite QB = Super Bowl wins.

The Packers have an elite QB on their roster, do they not?

Sure, now all they need to do is trade Stubby/BG for Belichick.