Packers 2016 Offseason

[Fritz]

Datone Jones moving outside - this is another first or second rounder who's being asked to change positions about three years into his career, Mike Neal being the other. Does that happen often, or does TT need to re-think how he drafts defensive linemen and OLB's?

[pbmax]

Datone Jones moving outside - this is another first or second rounder who's being asked to change positions about three years into his career, Mike Neal being the other. Does that happen often, or does TT need to re-think how he drafts defensive linemen and OLB's?

I don't think he can hold up well inside versus the run. He might be a 5 tech, but he is not a 3 or 1.

[Fritz]

I don't think he can hold up well inside versus the run. He might be a 5 tech, but he is not a 3 or 1.

Well, he was drafted to be a 5-tech, but now he's being moved to Elephant. Just as Neal was moved.

Does Ted need to re-think what he's looking for in his 5-technique?

[pbmax]

Well, he was drafted to be a 5-tech, but now he's being moved to Elephant. Just as Neal was moved.

Does Ted need to re-think what he's looking for in his 5-technique?

To a degree, but not drastically. Jones isn't as good as Guion or Daniels at the 1 or 3, and they play so little base, that he spent very little time at his base position.

You want someone who could leave the team and end up in his preferred position? Its Jones and the 5 tech (or 7 in a 4-3).

[Fritz]

To a degree, but not drastically. Jones isn't as good as Guion or Daniels at the 1 or 3, and they play so little base, that he spent very little time at his base position.

You want someone who could leave the team and end up in his preferred position? Its Jones and the 5 tech (or 7 in a 4-3).

But isn't the guy in the 3-4 who's supposed to be able to get to the QB consistently out of the base the 5-tech? Isn't that quick-twitch defensive end the guy who's supposed to be able to get to the QB, creating even more pressure? Or do you just run the 3-4 base with a nose tackle and two 3-tech defensive tackle types?

[pbmax]

But isn't the guy in the 3-4 who's supposed to be able to get to the QB consistently out of the base the 5-tech? Isn't that quick-twitch defensive end the guy who's supposed to be able to get to the QB, creating even more pressure? Or do you just run the 3-4 base with a nose tackle and two 3-tech defensive tackle types?

Ideally, you want everything you mentioned, a stout, quick and long player at your 5 tech*. But the Packers haven't had a lot of success finding them. CJ Wilson and Howard Green were run stuffers (with one glorious Super Bowl exception) and Pickett and Raji aren't long enough to rush at end. It could have been by design to favor this initially or it simply could have been easier to find that type of player since pass rush biggies are so highly valued.

Eventually, Datone Jones is available and is the platonic ideal of a 3-4 end, a 5-tech end with enough moves to pass rush. Physically, anyway.

But about the same time as the Packers decide to play a ton of nickel to combat the pass, they also decide to alter their base from a static 3-4 to their Eagle Oakie. Which is their name for a front that looks like a 4-3. Now instead of two 4 or 5 tech and a nose guard, you have a 1 tech nose, a 3 tech (tackle) and a 7 tech (end in base, OLB otherwise) and an Elephant (standing OLB in the 9 tech).

Jones proves to not be good enough to play inside at 3 and you have Daniels. And he might not be good enough at 7 to supplant Peppers, Neal or Perry in nickel pass rush. Nor is he good enough to supplant Daniels or Raji in the sturdier against the run 2-4. He only plays in obvious passing downs (dime). So your best physical specimen on the line is playing 10 snaps a game.

So you give up on his run D inside and try him at OLB/Elephant like Neal. And you probably let Neal walk unless he gets zero interesting offers.


*which might be more accurately described as a 4 tech as I believe Rand discovered when he buttonholed the entire defensive staff over drinks last year.

[Fritz]

Ideally, you want everything you mentioned, a stout, quick and long player at your 5 tech*. But the Packers haven't had a lot of success finding them. CJ Wilson and Howard Green were run stuffers (with one glorious Super Bowl exception) and Pickett and Raji aren't long enough to rush at end. It could have been by design to favor this initially or it simply could have been easier to find that type of player since pass rush biggies are so highly valued.

Eventually, Datone Jones is available and is the platonic ideal of a 3-4 end, a 5-tech end with enough moves to pass rush. Physically, anyway.

But about the same time as the Packers decide to play a ton of nickel to combat the pass, they also decide to alter their base from a static 3-4 to their Eagle Oakie. Which is their name for a front that looks like a 4-3. Now instead of two 4 or 5 tech and a nose guard, you have a 1 tech nose, a 3 tech (tackle) and a 7 tech (end in base, OLB otherwise) and an Elephant (standing OLB in the 9 tech).

Jones proves to not be good enough to play inside at 3 and you have Daniels. And he might not be good enough at 7 to supplant Peppers, Neal or Perry in nickel pass rush. Nor is he good enough to supplant Daniels or Raji in the sturdier against the run 2-4. He only plays in obvious passing downs (dime). So your best physical specimen on the line is playing 10 snaps a game.

So you give up on his run D inside and try him at OLB/Elephant like Neal. And you probably let Neal walk unless he gets zero interesting offers.


*which might be more accurately described as a 4 tech as I believe Rand discovered when he buttonholed the entire defensive staff over drinks last year.

Now I'm feeling all edumacated! Thanks, PB - I think this forces me to dispel the idea that the Packers play any kind of base 3-4; sounds like they play a kind of 2-4 in which two of the four linebackers are actually defensive end/linebacker hybrids, and the two down linemen consist of a nose and a three. And this would be the source of Wist's frustration, as he feels the two hybrids are not stout enough against the run.

Me, I'm more worried about pass coverage with those two hybrids. Expecially since they often cover running backs and tight ends who, with the exception of our own DickRod, are faster than they are.

Datone better practice moving his feet quick. Jake Ryan looked like a statue in coverage last year.