More Banjo: Week 3 vs Lions

[Maxie the Taxi]

The start of the second half had a definite, different feel to it than the start of the 1st half. The emphasis at the beginning of the 1st half was an aggressive passing attack. Pass first to set up the run, Tex would say.

At the start of the second half the emphasis was on Lacy pounding the pill. We were leading 31-10 at half-time, so Stubby coming out with a conservative plan to run more in the second half (take his foot off the gas) is kind of conventional wisdom. I didn't mind it.

But when Detroit started moving the ball/scoring and the running game stalled due to zero rushing yardage on 1st down and penalties, I felt we should have gone back to the aggressive passing attack, especially in the 4th quarter and especially at the end of the game.

Like someone said (pbmax, I think) it isn't a sound plan to rely on Arod to scramble on third down for 10 yards for a much needed 1st down in those situations.

[hoosier]

The start of the second half had a definite, different feel to it than the start of the 1st half. The emphasis at the beginning of the 1st half was an aggressive passing attack. Pass first to set up the run, Tex would say.

At the start of the second half the emphasis was on Lacy pounding the pill. We were leading 31-10 at half-time, so Stubby coming out with a conservative plan to run more in the second half (take his foot off the gas) is kind of conventional wisdom. I didn't mind it.

But when Detroit started moving the ball/scoring and the running game stalled due to zero rushing yardage on 1st down and penalties, I felt we should have gone back to the aggressive passing attack, especially in the 4th quarter and especially at the end of the game.

Like someone said (pbmax, I think) it isn't a sound plan to rely on Arod to scramble on third down for 10 yards for a much needed 1st down in those situations.

It's not just play calling you're talking about, it's momentum. Hard to turn it off and on again.

[texaspackerbacker]

The start of the second half had a definite, different feel to it than the start of the 1st half. The emphasis at the beginning of the 1st half was an aggressive passing attack. Pass first to set up the run, Tex would say.

At the start of the second half the emphasis was on Lacy pounding the pill. We were leading 31-10 at half-time, so Stubby coming out with a conservative plan to run more in the second half (take his foot off the gas) is kind of conventional wisdom. I didn't mind it.

But when Detroit started moving the ball/scoring and the running game stalled due to zero rushing yardage on 1st down and penalties, I felt we should have gone back to the aggressive passing attack, especially in the 4th quarter and especially at the end of the game.

Like someone said (pbmax, I think) it isn't a sound plan to rely on Arod to scramble on third down for 10 yards for a much needed 1st down in those situations.

Uh, I did kinda mind it - reverting to old run-first shit and floundering offensively. It's like, incredibly, he doesn't trust Aaron Rodgers to avoid interceptions. Going 3 and out or close to it with his "conservative" approach (I HATE use of the word "conservative" to mean hyper-cautious) is NOT playing it safe. You can lose a game a helluva lot easier that way than putting the ball in Rodgers' hands.

A word about that other post: I'm getting kinda negative about Randall. Rollins plays better in man coverage, and Gunter plays better yet. Hell, the rookie Hawkins (other than his colossal touchdown-giving blunder) seemed to have better instincts and athleticism than Randall. All three of those others do. Randall looks like he's a step slow and he doesn't realize it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Uh, I did kinda mind it - reverting to old run-first shit and floundering offensively. It's like, incredibly, he doesn't trust Aaron Rodgers to avoid interceptions. Going 3 and out or close to it with his "conservative" approach (I HATE use of the word "conservative" to mean hyper-cautious) is NOT playing it safe. You can lose a game a helluva lot easier that way than putting the ball in Rodgers' hands.

A word about that other post: I'm getting kinda negative about Randall. Rollins plays better in man coverage, and Gunter plays better yet. Hell, the rookie Hawkins (other than his colossal touchdown-giving blunder) seemed to have better instincts and athleticism than Randall. All three of those others do. Randall looks like he's a step slow and he doesn't realize it.

I basically agree with you. I generally don't like Stubby's conservative strategy to preserve a win by pounding the pill, mainly on the grounds of what hoosier said: you risk losing that scoring momentum.

But Stubby's never gonna change. He's old school Steelers. He WANTS his team to be able to control the game by pounding the rock. He's said it countless times over the years.

The problem is IMO the game has changed. You CAN'T control the game by pounding the rock anymore. It's now a pass-first league. Even the rules favor the passing game. Few games are truly out of reach no matter how far behind you are. And Stubby kinda understands this too because when he needs points he reverts back to passing like there's no tomorrow.

So he's caught in a kind of contradiction: his instinct to control the game by rushing vs the reality that you score points (and convert third and long) by passing. IMO that's why, in so many of these games (and end of game, crunch time scenarios), Stubby's approach seems schizophrenic.

[hoosier]

I basically agree with you. I generally don't like Stubby's conservative strategy to preserve a win by pounding the pill, mainly on the grounds of what hoosier said: you risk losing that scoring momentum.

But Stubby's never gonna change. He's old school Steelers. He WANTS his team to be able to control the game by pounding the rock. He's said it countless times over the years.

The problem is IMO the game has changed. You CAN'T control the game by pounding the rock anymore. It's now a pass-first league. Even the rules favor the passing game. Few games are truly out of reach no matter how far behind you are. And Stubby kinda understands this too because when he needs points he reverts back to passing like there's no tomorrow.

So he's caught in a kind of contradiction: his instinct to control the game by rushing vs the reality that you score points (and convert third and long) by passing. IMO that's why, in so many of these games (and end of game, crunch time scenarios), Stubby's approach seems schizophrenic.

Two things in McCarthy's defense. First, the opposing defense will be taking more chances in the second half yesterday, so if he continues with the aggressive approach then the odds of a turnover or quick three-and-out go up, and when you're up 31-3 at half, the very last thing in the world you want to see is a quick pick-6 going the other way. Nothing gets the opponent who you've been stomping on all first half back in the game like a pick-6. Second, what McCarthy did in the second half yesterday has ramifications for the bigger picture. The Packer offense will be much more formidable if and when it gets to the point where it can impose its will on the defense, and the best way to do that is to run it down their throat. When it doesn't work it can be incredibly frustrating to watch, and can lead to the kind of excruciating second half we witnessed yesterday. But if, come December and January, this team can get to that point of being able to impose its will, we will all be much happier fans.

[beveaux1]

Two things in McCarthy's defense. First, the opposing defense will be taking more chances in the second half yesterday, so if he continues with the aggressive approach then the odds of a turnover or quick three-and-out go up, and when you're up 31-3 at half, the very last thing in the world you want to see is a quick pick-6 going the other way. Nothing gets the opponent who you've been stomping on all first half back in the game like a pick-6. Second, what McCarthy did in the second half yesterday has ramifications for the bigger picture. The Packer offense will be much more formidable if and when it gets to the point where it can impose its will on the defense, and the best way to do that is to run it down their throat. When it doesn't work it can be incredibly frustrating to watch, and can lead to the kind of excruciating second half we witnessed yesterday. But if, come December and January, this team can get to that point of being able to impose its will, we will all be much happier fans.

I'm pretty sure that MM is not as concerned with the interception as he is with keeping the clock moving. We had the ball three times in the 2nd half not counting our last "end the game" drive. We scored on one of the drives and punted twice. One three and out when we started the drive with an incomplete pass. Heck, the Lions only had the ball 5 times in the 2nd half. The problem was that our defense allowed them to trade time off the clock for TDs and the Lions converted four of those drives into 24 points. If I have a 3 TD lead at halftime the clock is my friend.

I understand the philosophy, but when the defense can't get a stop, it makes it tough on the fans.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Two things in McCarthy's defense. First, the opposing defense will be taking more chances in the second half yesterday, so if he continues with the aggressive approach then the odds of a turnover or quick three-and-out go up, and when you're up 31-3 at half, the very last thing in the world you want to see is a quick pick-6 going the other way. Nothing gets the opponent who you've been stomping on all first half back in the game like a pick-6. Second, what McCarthy did in the second half yesterday has ramifications for the bigger picture. The Packer offense will be much more formidable if and when it gets to the point where it can impose its will on the defense, and the best way to do that is to run it down their throat. When it doesn't work it can be incredibly frustrating to watch, and can lead to the kind of excruciating second half we witnessed yesterday. But if, come December and January, this team can get to that point of being able to impose its will, we will all be much happier fans.

From now on you are not hoosier to me. You are Stubby II.

[texaspackerbacker]

Two things in McCarthy's defense. First, the opposing defense will be taking more chances in the second half yesterday, so if he continues with the aggressive approach then the odds of a turnover or quick three-and-out go up, and when you're up 31-3 at half, the very last thing in the world you want to see is a quick pick-6 going the other way. Nothing gets the opponent who you've been stomping on all first half back in the game like a pick-6. Second, what McCarthy did in the second half yesterday has ramifications for the bigger picture. The Packer offense will be much more formidable if and when it gets to the point where it can impose its will on the defense, and the best way to do that is to run it down their throat. When it doesn't work it can be incredibly frustrating to watch, and can lead to the kind of excruciating second half we witnessed yesterday. But if, come December and January, this team can get to that point of being able to impose its will, we will all be much happier fans.

Do you seriously think the odds are significant even a little bit that Aaron Rodgers will throw interceptions if he basically continues to march? - uses play calling similar to the first half, which wasn't exactly pass-first as I would like to see it, but which was a major step in the right direction. The second half indeed was excruciating, but that was primarily because, as Maxi said, of McCarthy's damn stubbornness to run first and worse yet, his weird lack of trust for Aaron Rodgers not to give away the game. What QB in all of football avoids interceptions like Aaron Rodgers - even with the constant pass rush pressure on him?

[hoosier]

Do you seriously think the odds are significant even a little bit that Aaron Rodgers will throw interceptions if he basically continues to march? - uses play calling similar to the first half, which wasn't exactly pass-first as I would like to see it, but which was a major step in the right direction. The second half indeed was excruciating, but that was primarily because, as Maxi said, of McCarthy's damn stubbornness to run first and worse yet, his weird lack of trust for Aaron Rodgers not to give away the game. What QB in all of football avoids interceptions like Aaron Rodgers - even with the constant pass rush pressure on him?

What made the second half hard to watch were things: the pass defense started hemorrhaging yards and the offense failed to convert a couple of third downs. The big difference that I saw in the play calling wasn't the run to pass ratio but the number of times Rodgers went deep--if I'm not mistaken he didn't have a single throw over 20 yards in the second half. So, after further reflection, I've decided that it's misleading to say that McCarthy the playcaller went into a hole in the second half. It may have felt that way, but that is because the offense as a whole became less efficient.