McCarthy and "Close Games"

[Charles Woodson]

CANNOT and HAS not are two entirely different concepts. You're setting yourself up to look like a complete idiot if he does...I need to start bookmarking some of these threads...

Cannot and has not are two different concepts but they both will and do apply to MM. He wont win a championship. What gives you any idea that he can? He has had five years and produced next to nothing.

[retailguy]

What happens if we beat the Giants and Bears in the final two weeks and then beat the Bears in the first round of the playoffs?

So, what happens if they DON'T beat the Giants or the Bears and lose their last 4? My guess is nothing.

My guess is also that we address the OL problems with yet another draft pick and we don't bring in anyone who might be available in free agency. In other words, more of the same.

Then, next season, we'll trot out more and more slanted statistics on both sides of the fence, that make McCarthy and Thompson look like both idiots and geniuses.

And, predictably, the Packers are competitive in spite of the OL, and they either finish 8-8 or make the playoffs and lose the 1st game.

Then they stop posting for a couple months and continue their ravings around draft time when they think we've all forgotten about it. Joe, if we beat them by four or less, it just means we're lucky like Lovie. We have to beat them in the fourth quarter only and the first three quarters and overall performance of the team mean nothing so there will be no praising anyone for outstanding performance unless it was in the last 2 minutes of the game.

I've been reading the game thread and it occurs to me that some of you girls need a midol and a tampon. Truly insane that with all that's gone on this season with the position that this team is in, that you could even think at the end of that game that the coach needed to be fired. I have never had PMS-related insanity quite that bad. For godssakes, people!

What a shitty rant. Aren't we supposed to debate? Aren't we supposed to talk about our POV?

FWIW - I don't agree with rbaloha. I don't believe that McCarthy deserves to be fired, and I think this "close games" statistic is blown out of proportion. But, his record is rather crappy with regard to win/loss in the final few minutes, and better stated, loses more close games than he wins.

I sat there watching the Patriots game believing that they would lose in the final minutes. I don't remember believing that since the late 80's, but these days, I have doubt that they'll pull out a win. I was grateful that the game was as close as it was, and firmly believe that this Patriots game was McCarthy's finest coaching of the 2010 season.

But, anyone that believes that this forum likes to debate differing points of view just needs to read Ziggy's post to know that it is NOT true. Neither side respects the other anymore, and that's really very sad commentary. It just degenerates into mindless personal attacks and ignores the well debated issues.

[bobblehead]

CANNOT and HAS not are two entirely different concepts. You're setting yourself up to look like a complete idiot if he does...I need to start bookmarking some of these threads...

Yes, I love people who say something CAN NOT happen. Last year we all got bitchy about finishing 7-1 and making the playoffs. I recall the specific rat who said we CAN'T do it. He disappeared after we did it. I bumped the threads where I articulated very nice arguments as to why I thought we could do it. He is back now. He should be ashamed.

[bobblehead]

So, what happens if they DON'T beat the Giants or the Bears and lose their last 4? My guess is nothing.

My guess is also that we address the OL problems with yet another draft pick and we don't bring in anyone who might be available in free agency. In other words, more of the same.

Then, next season, we'll trot out more and more slanted statistics on both sides of the fence, that make McCarthy and Thompson look like both idiots and geniuses.

And, predictably, the Packers are competitive in spite of the OL, and they either finish 8-8 or make the playoffs and lose the 1st game.



What a shitty rant. Aren't we supposed to debate? Aren't we supposed to talk about our POV?

FWIW - I don't agree with rbaloha. I don't believe that McCarthy deserves to be fired, and I think this "close games" statistic is blown out of proportion. But, his record is rather crappy with regard to win/loss in the final few minutes, and better stated, loses more close games than he wins.

I sat there watching the Patriots game believing that they would lose in the final minutes. I don't remember believing that since the late 80's, but these days, I have doubt that they'll pull out a win. I was grateful that the game was as close as it was, and firmly believe that this Patriots game was McCarthy's finest coaching of the 2010 season.

But, anyone that believes that this forum likes to debate differing points of view just needs to read Ziggy's post to know that it is NOT true. Neither side respects the other anymore, and that's really very sad commentary. It just degenerates into mindless personal attacks and ignores the well debated issues.

I agree, we are supposed to debate. Its fun. Its why we come here to see varying opinions and occassionally learn something. My guess is that MM gets one more season regardless due to serious injury issues this year. Despite a very tough schedule, shafting by the refs in a couple games, and Crosby clanking 2 more HUGE kicks this year we are in control of our own destiny. The overall body of work isn't bad. BUT.....either this year or next we need to make some waves in the playoffs. No less than an NFCC birth will do. I must be one of the few who still believe it can happen this year.

As a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb. We meet Atlanta in the playoffs. I can't be sure we beat them, but we CAN. They are very good, extremely well coached. Nobody else in the NFC I feel is better than Green Bay. Bump it later and embarrass me, I can disappear for the rest of the year just like said poster from last year.....yea, you know who you are.

[bobblehead]

Cannot and has not are two different concepts but they both will and do apply to MM. He wont win a championship. What gives you any idea that he can? He has had five years and produced next to nothing.

Cleveland Browns
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36–44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994. In Belichick's last season in Cleveland the Browns finished 5–11. In November of that year Browns owner Art Modell announced he would move the team to Baltimore after the season. Belichick resigned early in February 1996.[2]

What makes anyone think this clown might someday win a superbowl??

[rbaloha1]

Cleveland Browns
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36–44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994. In Belichick's last season in Cleveland the Browns finished 5–11. In November of that year Browns owner Art Modell announced he would move the team to Baltimore after the season. Belichick resigned early in February 1996.[2]

What makes anyone think this clown might someday win a superbowl??

Since you are posting this -- yes or no is MM another Belichick? I say, "No."

[retailguy]

Since you are posting this -- yes or no is MM another Belichick? I say, "No."

Probably not, but it'll take another season or so even if he isn't.

[bobblehead]

Since you are posting this -- yes or no is MM another Belichick? I say, "No."

You can't definitively say....but I doubt it. Not likely. Flat out No....you can't know that. That was hardly my point regardless.

The poster said MM has produced "next to nothing" We made an NFCC game. We had the 2nd defense in the NFL last year and 6th offense. We have the NFL's second best point differential this year.

Do I think he is another BB...key word THINK....no, but I think he has shown a lot of things to be positive about. All that being said, if we can't make the playoffs and win some games this year or next then it might be time to move on.

[rbaloha1]

You can't definitively say....but I doubt it. Not likely. Flat out No....you can't know that. That was hardly my point regardless.

The poster said MM has produced "next to nothing" We made an NFCC game. We had the 2nd defense in the NFL last year and 6th offense. We have the NFL's second best point differential this year.

Do I think he is another BB...key word THINK....no, but I think he has shown a lot of things to be positive about. All that being said, if we can't make the playoffs and win some games this year or next then it might be time to move on.

Maybe Sherman was another BB but the Packers screwed up by letting him go too early.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe Sherman was another BB but the Packers screwed up by letting him go too early.

That's why he's had such success since leaving the team.

[retailguy]

That's why he's had such success since leaving the team.

Hmm - Aggies were 9-3 this season (18th BCS standings) and play LSU in the Cotton Bowl. This is in his 3rd season with his "recruits". And he is Big 12 coach of the year, and a finalist for the Bear Bryant National coach of the year....

Seems successful to me...


http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports...121610aaa.html

Sherman finalist for Annual Bryant National Coach of the Year
Dec. 16, 2010

HOUSTON - In the words of the famed late-great University of Alabama Crimson Tide football coach, Paul “Bear” Bryant, “It’s still a coach's game. Make no mistake. You start at the top. If you don't have a good one at the top, you don't have a cut dog's chance. If you do, the rest falls into place.”

American Heart Association and Marathon Oil proudly recognize the men who have stood behind Bryant’s theory by announcing the extraordinary college football coaches who have led legendary teams to victory by announcing the 2010 Paul “Bear” Bryant Award finalists:

* Chris Ault, University of Nevada
* Bret Bielema, University of Wisconsin
* Gene Chizik, Auburn University
* Mark Dantonio, Michigan State
* Jim Harbaugh, Stanford University
* Chip Kelly, University of Oregon
* Gary Patterson, Texas Christian University
* Bobby Petrino, University of Arkansas
* Mike Sherman, Texas A&M University

The winner will be announced live at an awards dinner benefiting the American Heart Association on Jan. 18, 2011 at the Hilton Americas-Houston Hotel and Convention Center in downtown Houston. Celebrating 25 years at this year’s event, The Marathon Oil Corporation Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards is the only college football coaching award voted on after all bowl games are played. January’s event will also recognize Florida State University’s renowned former coach, Bobby Bowden, as the Bryant Lifetime Achievement Recipient.
“Marathon is honored to once again serve as the title sponsor of the Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards,” said David E. Roberts, Jr., executive vice president of worldwide upstream operations for Marathon Oil Corporation. “The funds raised during this event are invaluable in supporting the American Heart Association's mission to fight heart disease and stroke, and we are pleased to be able to assist in this effort."

The Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards honor excellence in coaching while raising funds to fight heart disease and stroke, the nation’s No. 1 and No. 4 killers. Funds raised benefit research, community education and outreach programs for the American Heart Association. For more information, or to purchase tickets or a table for the event, contact 713-610-5026 or visit www.bryantawards.com.

Texas A&M’s Mike Sherman is also a finalist for the Liberty Mutual National Coach of the Year and he was named the Big 12 Coach of the Year by the San Antonio Express-News.

[denverYooper]

Probably not, but it'll take another season or so even if he isn't.

Agree. I'd like to see what he can do with a healthy Grant and Finley. 46-32 overall (.590) is enough to make me overlook the arbitrary close games record and I'm willing to bet that his record there will improve over time. Just as soon as they get consistently decent ST play.

[mraynrand]

Cleveland Browns
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36–44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994. In Belichick's last season in Cleveland the Browns finished 5–11. In November of that year Browns owner Art Modell announced he would move the team to Baltimore after the season. Belichick resigned early in February 1996.[2]

What makes anyone think this clown might someday win a superbowl??

Probably the fact that he'd already won two for Parcells

[MJZiggy]

Hmm - Aggies were 9-3 this season (18th BCS standings) and play LSU in the Cotton Bowl. This is in his 3rd season with his "recruits". And he is Big 12 coach of the year, and a finalist for the Bear Bryant National coach of the year....

Seems successful to me...


http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports...121610aaa.html

Sherman finalist for Annual Bryant National Coach of the Year
Dec. 16, 2010

HOUSTON - In the words of the famed late-great University of Alabama Crimson Tide football coach, Paul “Bear” Bryant, “It’s still a coach's game. Make no mistake. You start at the top. If you don't have a good one at the top, you don't have a cut dog's chance. If you do, the rest falls into place.”

American Heart Association and Marathon Oil proudly recognize the men who have stood behind Bryant’s theory by announcing the extraordinary college football coaches who have led legendary teams to victory by announcing the 2010 Paul “Bear” Bryant Award finalists:

* Chris Ault, University of Nevada
* Bret Bielema, University of Wisconsin
* Gene Chizik, Auburn University
* Mark Dantonio, Michigan State
* Jim Harbaugh, Stanford University
* Chip Kelly, University of Oregon
* Gary Patterson, Texas Christian University
* Bobby Petrino, University of Arkansas
* Mike Sherman, Texas A&M University

The winner will be announced live at an awards dinner benefiting the American Heart Association on Jan. 18, 2011 at the Hilton Americas-Houston Hotel and Convention Center in downtown Houston. Celebrating 25 years at this year’s event, The Marathon Oil Corporation Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards is the only college football coaching award voted on after all bowl games are played. January’s event will also recognize Florida State University’s renowned former coach, Bobby Bowden, as the Bryant Lifetime Achievement Recipient.
“Marathon is honored to once again serve as the title sponsor of the Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards,” said David E. Roberts, Jr., executive vice president of worldwide upstream operations for Marathon Oil Corporation. “The funds raised during this event are invaluable in supporting the American Heart Association's mission to fight heart disease and stroke, and we are pleased to be able to assist in this effort."

The Paul “Bear” Bryant Awards honor excellence in coaching while raising funds to fight heart disease and stroke, the nation’s No. 1 and No. 4 killers. Funds raised benefit research, community education and outreach programs for the American Heart Association. For more information, or to purchase tickets or a table for the event, contact 713-610-5026 or visit www.bryantawards.com.

Texas A&M’s Mike Sherman is also a finalist for the Liberty Mutual National Coach of the Year and he was named the Big 12 Coach of the Year by the San Antonio Express-News.

Sounds oddly Steve Spurrierish...Another great NFL coach. Success at the college level does not ensure NFL success.

[mraynrand]

Sounds oddly Steve Spurrierish...Another great NFL coach. Success at the college level does not ensure NFL success.

What the hell are you talking about? Sherman was successful at the pro level and now he is showing promise in college. Maybe the guy is just a decent coach - not a world beater, but a good coach. Like McCarthy, you just look at the record. It tells you almost everything you need to know.

[retailguy]

Agree. I'd like to see what he can do with a healthy Grant and Finley. 46-32 overall (.590) is enough to make me overlook the arbitrary close games record and I'm willing to bet that his record there will improve over time. Just as soon as they get consistently decent ST play.

The only problem that I have with this, is, for the past couple of seasons, what we have heard is "if we just get decent _____, then it'll happen". Honestly, there will always be holes and issues, what McCarthy needs to prove is that he can win in spite of whatever hole or issue pops up. 14 injuries is a bit much (that's his mulligan), but still. Sadly, I think that next year, we'll have another "If we just get consistent ____, then McCarthy can win".

But, we'll see. He surely isn't going anywhere, even if they lose to both the Giants and the Bears.

[retailguy]

What the hell are you talking about? Sherman was successful at the pro level and now he is showing promise in college. Maybe the guy is just a decent coach - not a world beater, but a good coach. Like McCarthy, you just look at the record. It tells you almost everything you need to know.

Well said. No reason to keep dissing the guy. I just don't get it.

[SnakeLH2006]

Cannot and has not are two different concepts but they both will and do apply to MM. He wont win a championship. What gives you any idea that he can? He has had five years and produced next to nothing.

Well put CWood....You know Snake has bounced back and forth with MM. I dunno if he is a great coach.

MM is good...He wins enough to coach year after year, but those guys can go decades....see Andy Reid (without winning a SB).

I think MM does enough yearly, where he'll be the Packers coach for the next 5 years min. unless he bottoms out (but can't see that with ARod at QB).

I think he has all the talents to be an elite coach (win the SB consistently) except for 3 things:

1) He's shortsighted. His playcalling is bad sometimes, having faith in running the ball with Kuhn in short-yardage game after game (with nil results).....or just saying fuck it and going all pass (that doesn't work either). We were best this year (and any year) with an honest run game...then he benched Starks (MM looks too much at stats with him not ready for ST). Starks is the best pure runner, but MM is bull-headed and BJack had some deece runs last game, but no one gears against BJack. If Starks had played and ran well...it would have helped with play-action, for example.

2) He's a bonehead. He must of had at least 10 plays in the last 4 games alone that should have been challenged, but just savors those timeouts. C'mon man.

3) His Offensive staff is turned over yearly and there is little consistency with the O. The D under Capers is mad good. Points, turnovers, etc. Great stuff. The O is amazing at times, but too many boneheaded plays are called. Yeah, let's pass 18 times in a row, or run with BJack (who sucks as a pure runner) or Kuhn (who is a good FB) on short-yardage. It's amazing to Snake how poor he's gotten (predictable) or dumb (use Swain more as he's a Wes Welker..catches well) but hey we will throw to (use) Quarless who can't catch the ball with ANY consistency. That isn't the QB, that's a drawn up play. Quarless might be great in 2 years, but they use him like Finley......and it's cost us many drives/games. Give it up MM. He tries to act all cute with it, but really needs to look at stats and see what hasn't worked and give it up. His Offensive coaches haven't done much. I like Edgar Bennett and Campen as ex-Packers, but neither does enough to develop the young guys in their 5+ years as RB and OL coaches....but he's so faithful, that they remain.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Waiting for an answer.

What happens if we beat the Giants and Bears in the final two weeks and then beat the Bears in the first round of the playoffs?

[SnakeLH2006]

Waiting for an answer.

What does that mean?