OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[woodbuck27]

With a focus on a stupid penalty that led to a series of events that cost Brett Favre and the Vikings a Super Bowl appearance last season; and led to other factors of Vikings concern:

12 MEN IN THE HUDDLE REWIND

Coming out of their second timeout with 19 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and the score tied 28-28, the Vikings were in chaos facing a crucial third-and-long.

Fullback Naufahu Tahi was still on the field after blocking for Adrian Peterson on the previous no gain. Head coach Brad Childress and running backs coach Eric Bieniemy frantically waved for Tahi to get out of the huddle. Brett Favre, too, realized the problem and hurriedly called timeout, but not before flags flew.

The penalty knocked Minnesota back to the 38, confronting kicker Ryan Longwell with a potential 56-yard attempt instead of 51 yards and convincing the Vikings they needed to pass on third and 15.

Favre, gimpy on a severely sprained left ankle, rolled right and had at least 10 yards of open field between him and the far sideline to run, but he elected to throw across his body for Sidney Rice. Cornerback Tracy Porter intercepted.

New Orleans promptly won the overtime coin toss. Returner Pierre Thomas raced 40 yards from the goal line to give the Saints fantastic field position and set up Garrett Hartley for the 40-yard boot that put them in the Super Bowl.

The Vikings never touched the ball again.

On the kick coverage, Cedric Griffin, the Vikings' interception leader, tore his left anterior cruciate ligament, which required reconstructive surgery and leaves his status for tonight's rematch a game-time decision.

— Brian Murphy

I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? Whatever the case, let's note for the record that: (1) Favre didn't call timeout until the Vikings had broken the huddle and were getting set at the line of scrimmage; and (2) that the Vikings had already taken a timeout after the previous play and thus Favre's calling a second timeout would have resulted in a penalty in its own right had they not been penalized for 12 in the huddle.

" I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? "
... hoosier

I was looking at a popular Minnesota website last night and discovered similiar stories that we've seen of late RE: Vikings and need or not at WR. and ... Of their owners passion to see his team go all the way and win the Super Bowl .

When I found this article. I thought it was interesting that the author revisited that penalty. I felt that penalty was a crushing blow to the Vikings chance to be NFC Champ. I was heavily involved in that game.

Just prior to that penalty. I was picturing former Packer kicker Ryan Longwell, making about a 50 yarder. Also I was amazed given the punishment Favre received, and the turns of fortune that went against the Vikings. That they still looked good to advance to the Super Bowl. I'm sure many Vikings fans were tasting it. NFL fans were somewhere between pleased for 'the Vikings ' given their undaunted yet unrewarded history and hating the moment, as the Vikings looked good to win that berth to the Super Bowl.

Then that ridiculous or untimely penalty. It had to be brutal to be a Vikings fan.... Then I began to reflect on this wonderful game we love. Of all the experiences we have felt as football fans of the NFL or a specific team.

We are Packer fans and damn proud of that fact.

Last night I reflected on the past experiences I felt as a Packer and NFL fan. It made me think of OUR sudden loss to the 49ers on ' the Steve Young closing series', that shouldn't have been, as the Officials blew that call on 49er's WR Jerry Rice.

It still bugs me.

Then ' the drive ' by San Fran QB Steve Young and that subsequent incredibly acrobatic leaping tand falling to the ground catch by Terrell Owens. T.O. was surrounded by Packer defenders and he wouldn't be denied on that wild right to left slant to the end zone. What a frick'n catch !!

I couldn't believe I saw that happen. My immediate reaction: It should never have been. NFL Officials had done it to us again! As they've done it to many NFL teams, and will do so in the future. Sunday afternoon Officials in ' the most exciting league on the planet '. The look of Holmgren and Favre on the sideline, as our fate was sealed. The feeling we as Packer fans felt, ' disbelief '. We had lost that vital game. All the passion... of that whole thing.

That 12 man in the huddle penalty also made me think of the improbable, the infamous ' 4 and 26 '. How we blew that game. How since we tossed that around. How we have come to somehow gleen a wee bit of ' the people we are here' as individuals. How we have agreed and disagreed with one another and somehow maintained this Packer fan site. Our Packer home.

Look back at that 12 man in the huddle penalty, from a standpoint of how similiar happenings in crucial games affected us as Packer fans. I'm much more than ' just as Packer fan '. I love the NFL game and all the build up, hype and drama.

I happen to feel that the common fans have alot more on the ball than alot of people (people even here at Packerrats) are willing to credit them with. It seems to me that some of the people here actually believe that ** their team managements, ALL RIGHT **. I seperate religion and Pro sports.

Back to:

a)12 men in the huddle .. Saints/Vikings NFC Championship Game 2009/10

b)The Steve Young Drive and the T.O. catch ( 49ers Steve Young, Jerry Rice and T.O. )

c)Packers and Philly NFC Championship game ( 4th and 26 )

That as NFL fans we take any moment in a game, any way we want to, as individuals. We either like it, love it, hate it, or are asleep, don't give a damn or otherwise, indifferent to it. We all share the moment as NFL fans and react as our emotions or intellect direct us. That's just one example of how ' I feel ' we should conduct ourselves in this lifetime. With respect.

These are my thoughts hoosier. Can't we as members here grow as a community and learn something from every member? Re-build PackerRats to the best fan site offered on the internet?

I believe 'that utopian thought' has promise. I reached out to a member here ' last night ' that has disappeared for some reason. I'm concerned about this fella. Is he ok. Has his life taken a down turn? Is it any of my business? **

**Well he'll get my message or not and decide that matter.

This is a community. As members we should care more about our posters that have made significant contributions to the growth and experience at Packerrats. That attitude may influence other posters to step up their game and fill the roles of those missing.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27

[Scott Campbell]

It was a 5 yard penalty. It'll never excuse Bert for gift wrapping the Superbowl berth to the Saints with that horrible pass to Joey Porter.

[mraynrand]

With a focus on a stupid penalty that led to a series of events that cost Brett Favre and the Vikings a Super Bowl appearance last season; and led to other factors of Vikings concern:

12 MEN IN THE HUDDLE REWIND

Coming out of their second timeout with 19 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and the score tied 28-28, the Vikings were in chaos facing a crucial third-and-long.

Fullback Naufahu Tahi was still on the field after blocking for Adrian Peterson on the previous no gain. Head coach Brad Childress and running backs coach Eric Bieniemy frantically waved for Tahi to get out of the huddle. Brett Favre, too, realized the problem and hurriedly called timeout, but not before flags flew.

The penalty knocked Minnesota back to the 38, confronting kicker Ryan Longwell with a potential 56-yard attempt instead of 51 yards and convincing the Vikings they needed to pass on third and 15.

Favre, gimpy on a severely sprained left ankle, rolled right and had at least 10 yards of open field between him and the far sideline to run, but he elected to throw across his body for Sidney Rice. Cornerback Tracy Porter intercepted.

New Orleans promptly won the overtime coin toss. Returner Pierre Thomas raced 40 yards from the goal line to give the Saints fantastic field position and set up Garrett Hartley for the 40-yard boot that put them in the Super Bowl.

The Vikings never touched the ball again.

On the kick coverage, Cedric Griffin, the Vikings' interception leader, tore his left anterior cruciate ligament, which required reconstructive surgery and leaves his status for tonight's rematch a game-time decision.

— Brian Murphy

I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? Whatever the case, let's note for the record that: (1) Favre didn't call timeout until the Vikings had broken the huddle and were getting set at the line of scrimmage; and (2) that the Vikings had already taken a timeout after the previous play and thus Favre's calling a second timeout would have resulted in a penalty in its own right had they not been penalized for 12 in the huddle.

" I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? "
... hoosier

I was looking at a popular Minnesota website last night and discovered similiar stories that we've seen of late RE: Vikings and need or not at WR. and ... Of their owners passion to see his team go all the way and win the Super Bowl .

When I found this article. I thought it was interesting that the author revisited that penalty. I felt that penalty was a crushing blow to the Vikings excellent chance to be NFC Champ. I was heavily involved in that game 'of course'. Well invested isn't an incorrect claim.

At the time and just prior to that penalty. I was picturing former Packer kicker 'and Packer great to me ' Ryan Longwell, making about a 50 yarder, to seal the deal. I was also at that time amazed given the punishment Favre received, and the turns of fortune that went against the Vikings. That they still looked good to advance to the Super Bowl. I'm sure many Vikings fans were tasting it and NFL fans were somewhere between pleased for 'the Vikings ' given their undaunted yet unrewarded history and just OKing to hating the moment, as the Vikings were setting up for a visit to the show.

Then that ridiculous 'given the time and circumstances' penalty. Holy mackeral I thought... Noooo! It had to be brutal to be a die hard Vikings fan.... Then I began much later and right up to last night ... to reflect on this wonderful game we love. Of all the experiences we have felt as football fans of the NFL generally, or of a specific team.

We are Packer fans and damn proud of that fact.

Last night as I wrote before. I reflected on the past experiences I felt as a Packer and NFL fan. It made me think of OUR sudden loss to the 49ers on ' the Steve Young closing series' that shouldn't have been. Yet was, after the Officials blew that call on 49er's WR Jerry Rice on the RH side.

Damn! It still bugs me.

Then ' the drive ', led by San Fran QB Steve Young and that subsequent incredibly acrobatic leaping to grab the ball and falling, to the ground catch by a WR that had been coming on our radar with his steller talent and colorful ways. San Fran WR Terrell Owens.

T.O. was surrounded by Packer defenders and he wouldn't be denied on that wild right to left slant to the end zone. What a frick'n catch !!

My whaaaat " I can't believe I saw that happen" moment for me, of sudden dispair and grief. My immediate reactions included this: It should never have been...Damn!! NFL Officials have done it to us again!

As they've done it to many NFL teams, and will in the future.

Sunday afternoon Officials in 'the most exciting league on the planet'. Unbelievable BS. The look of Holmgren and Favre on the sideline, as our fate was sealed. The feeling we as Packer fans felt, 'as disbelief', that we had lost that vital game. All the passion... of that whole thing.

That 12 man in the huddle penalty also made me think of the improbable, the infamous ' 4 and 26 ' and how we blew that game. The blame. How we tossed that around time after time as common posters in different forums. Given all of that. How we have come to somehow gleen a wee bit of ' the people we are here' as individuals. How we have agreed and disagreed with one another and somehow maintained this Packer fan site. We all deem or Packer home.

Take a look back at that horrible 12 man in the huddle penalty from a standpoint of how similiar happenings in crucial games affected us as Packer fans. I'm much more than ' just as Packer fan '. I love the NFL game and all the build up, all the hype and drama.

I love Packerrats. This is my only fan site. I never post in other site, yet from time to time depended on what I seek; I do visit other team sites. Why? Well I look for an edge as an NFL fan. I want to grow as an NFL fan.

I happen to feel that the common fans have alot more on the ball than alot of people (people even here at Packerrats) are willing to credit them with. It seems to me that some of the people here actually believe that ** their team managements, ALL RIGHT **. I seperate religion and Pro sports. I'm never going to be there **. I've too much experience to realize the counter argument holds alot of water.

Back to

a)12 men in the huddle .. Saints/Vikings NFC Championship Game 2009/10

b)The Steve Young Drive and the T.O. catch ( 49ers Steve Young, Jerry Rice and T.O. )

c)Packers and Philly NFC Championship game ( 4th and 26 )

That we as NFL fans take any moment in a game, any way we want to, as individuals. We either like it or love it or hate it, or are asleep, don't give a damn or otherwise are indifferent to it. All the same, we share it as we need to, as we feel in ourselves. We all share the moment as NFL fans and react as our emotions or intellect direct us. That is the deal. Just one example of how ' I feel ', we should conduct ourselves best in this lifetime. The respect we owe one another here and as we live our lives one to another, generally.

These are simply my thoughts hoosier and all posters at packerrats.

We go through this life one time. There is no set way we need to live here at Packerrats; but to try to respect one another or to live life generally. Arn't there better ways to live than to take up defensive, controlling, over assertive to aggressive, mind wasted strategies with people alot of us here hardly or really don't know? Can't we as members here grow as a community and learn something from every member?

Re-build Packerrasts to the best fan site offered on the internet?

I believe 'that utopian thought' has promise. I reached out to a member here ' last night ' that has disappeared for some reason. I'm concerned about this fella. Is he ok. Has his life taken a down turn? Is it any of my business?**

**Well he'll get my message or not and decide that matter.

This is a community of sorts and as members here we need to at least consider caring more about our posters that have made significant contributions to the growth and experience at Packerrats. That attitude will only play on other posters, to step up their game and fill the roles of those we now see amongst the missing.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27

Holy Toledo!

The mind of Woodbuck is a mysterious place:

[swede]

That is why I don't read them. I take one peek into that labyrinth of canuckian canoodlings and back out before I get sucked through my monitor into another dimension.

[Zool]

Holy Toledo!

The mind of Woodbuck is a mysterious place:

Is that David Bowie in the background?

[hoosier]

Andrew Brandt on Randy Moss, Favre and the bidding wars between NE and the Packers: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ker-twice.html.

While the column takes the obligatory neutral view of how Favre/Cook dealt with the situation, it seems pretty clear to me that what Brandt witnessed in the aftermath--Favre's first retirement in spring 2008 and the ensuing spectacle in fall 2008--was basically the tantrum of a player who had discovered that he was no longer able to influence the team's strategic thinking about personnel.

[Tarlam!]

That is why I don't read them. I take one peek into that labyrinth of canuckian canoodlings and back out before I get sucked through my monitor into another dimension.

I sometimes read it and need a shower afterwards.

[woodbuck27]

With a focus on a stupid penalty that led to a series of events that cost Brett Favre and the Vikings a Super Bowl appearance last season; and led to other factors of Vikings concern:

12 MEN IN THE HUDDLE REWIND

Coming out of their second timeout with 19 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and the score tied 28-28, the Vikings were in chaos facing a crucial third-and-long.

Fullback Naufahu Tahi was still on the field after blocking for Adrian Peterson on the previous no gain. Head coach Brad Childress and running backs coach Eric Bieniemy frantically waved for Tahi to get out of the huddle. Brett Favre, too, realized the problem and hurriedly called timeout, but not before flags flew.

The penalty knocked Minnesota back to the 38, confronting kicker Ryan Longwell with a potential 56-yard attempt instead of 51 yards and convincing the Vikings they needed to pass on third and 15.

Favre, gimpy on a severely sprained left ankle, rolled right and had at least 10 yards of open field between him and the far sideline to run, but he elected to throw across his body for Sidney Rice. Cornerback Tracy Porter intercepted.

New Orleans promptly won the overtime coin toss. Returner Pierre Thomas raced 40 yards from the goal line to give the Saints fantastic field position and set up Garrett Hartley for the 40-yard boot that put them in the Super Bowl.

The Vikings never touched the ball again.

On the kick coverage, Cedric Griffin, the Vikings' interception leader, tore his left anterior cruciate ligament, which required reconstructive surgery and leaves his status for tonight's rematch a game-time decision.

— Brian Murphy

I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? Whatever the case, let's note for the record that: (1) Favre didn't call timeout until the Vikings had broken the huddle and were getting set at the line of scrimmage; and (2) that the Vikings had already taken a timeout after the previous play and thus Favre's calling a second timeout would have resulted in a penalty in its own right had they not been penalized for 12 in the huddle.

" I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? "
... hoosier

I was looking at a popular Minnesota website last night and discovered similiar stories that we've seen of late RE: Vikings and need or not at WR. and ... Of their owners passion to see his team go all the way and win the Super Bowl .

When I found this article. I thought it was interesting that the author revisited that penalty. I felt that penalty was a crushing blow to the Vikings excellent chance to be NFC Champ. I was heavily involved in that game 'of course'. Well invested isn't an incorrect claim.

At the time and just prior to that penalty. I was picturing former Packer kicker 'and Packer great to me ' Ryan Longwell, making about a 50 yarder, to seal the deal. I was also at that time amazed given the punishment Favre received, and the turns of fortune that went against the Vikings. That they still looked good to advance to the Super Bowl. I'm sure many Vikings fans were tasting it and NFL fans were somewhere between pleased for 'the Vikings ' given their undaunted yet unrewarded history and just OKing to hating the moment, as the Vikings were setting up for a visit to the show.

Then that ridiculous 'given the time and circumstances' penalty. Holy mackeral I thought... Noooo! It had to be brutal to be a die hard Vikings fan.... Then I began much later and right up to last night ... to reflect on this wonderful game we love. Of all the experiences we have felt as football fans of the NFL generally, or of a specific team.

We are Packer fans and damn proud of that fact.

Last night as I wrote before. I reflected on the past experiences I felt as a Packer and NFL fan. It made me think of OUR sudden loss to the 49ers on ' the Steve Young closing series' that shouldn't have been. Yet was, after the Officials blew that call on 49er's WR Jerry Rice on the RH side.

Damn! It still bugs me.

Then ' the drive ', led by San Fran QB Steve Young and that subsequent incredibly acrobatic leaping to grab the ball and falling, to the ground catch by a WR that had been coming on our radar with his steller talent and colorful ways. San Fran WR Terrell Owens.

T.O. was surrounded by Packer defenders and he wouldn't be denied on that wild right to left slant to the end zone. What a frick'n catch !!

My whaaaat " I can't believe I saw that happen" moment for me, of sudden dispair and grief. My immediate reactions included this: It should never have been...Damn!! NFL Officials have done it to us again!

As they've done it to many NFL teams, and will in the future.

Sunday afternoon Officials in 'the most exciting league on the planet'. Unbelievable BS. The look of Holmgren and Favre on the sideline, as our fate was sealed. The feeling we as Packer fans felt, 'as disbelief', that we had lost that vital game. All the passion... of that whole thing.

That 12 man in the huddle penalty also made me think of the improbable, the infamous ' 4 and 26 ' and how we blew that game. The blame. How we tossed that around time after time as common posters in different forums. Given all of that. How we have come to somehow gleen a wee bit of ' the people we are here' as individuals. How we have agreed and disagreed with one another and somehow maintained this Packer fan site. We all deem or Packer home.

Take a look back at that horrible 12 man in the huddle penalty from a standpoint of how similiar happenings in crucial games affected us as Packer fans. I'm much more than ' just as Packer fan '. I love the NFL game and all the build up, all the hype and drama.

I love Packerrats. This is my only fan site. I never post in other site, yet from time to time depended on what I seek; I do visit other team sites. Why? Well I look for an edge as an NFL fan. I want to grow as an NFL fan.

I happen to feel that the common fans have alot more on the ball than alot of people (people even here at Packerrats) are willing to credit them with. It seems to me that some of the people here actually believe that ** their team managements, ALL RIGHT **. I seperate religion and Pro sports. I'm never going to be there **. I've too much experience to realize the counter argument holds alot of water.

Back to

a)12 men in the huddle .. Saints/Vikings NFC Championship Game 2009/10

b)The Steve Young Drive and the T.O. catch ( 49ers Steve Young, Jerry Rice and T.O. )

c)Packers and Philly NFC Championship game ( 4th and 26 )

That we as NFL fans take any moment in a game, any way we want to, as individuals. We either like it or love it or hate it, or are asleep, don't give a damn or otherwise are indifferent to it. All the same, we share it as we need to, as we feel in ourselves. We all share the moment as NFL fans and react as our emotions or intellect direct us. That is the deal. Just one example of how ' I feel ', we should conduct ourselves best in this lifetime. The respect we owe one another here and as we live our lives one to another, generally.

These are simply my thoughts hoosier and all posters at packerrats.

We go through this life one time. There is no set way we need to live here at Packerrats; but to try to respect one another or to live life generally. Arn't there better ways to live than to take up defensive, controlling, over assertive to aggressive, mind wasted strategies with people alot of us here hardly or really don't know? Can't we as members here grow as a community and learn something from every member?

Re-build Packerrasts to the best fan site offered on the internet?

I believe 'that utopian thought' has promise. I reached out to a member here ' last night ' that has disappeared for some reason. I'm concerned about this fella. Is he ok. Has his life taken a down turn? Is it any of my business?**

**Well he'll get my message or not and decide that matter.

This is a community of sorts and as members here we need to at least consider caring more about our posters that have made significant contributions to the growth and experience at Packerrats. That attitude will only play on other posters, to step up their game and fill the roles of those we now see amongst the missing.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27

Holy Toledo!

The mind of Woodbuck is a mysterious place:

I wrote that this morning as I would a rough copy and with no edit. If I want to write something better I edit three times. I just made my first edit. I apologize to the forum.

[woodbuck27]

That is why I don't read them. I take one peek into that labyrinth of canuckian canoodlings and back out before I get sucked through my monitor into another dimension.

I sometimes read it and need a shower afterwards.

Yes sure Tarlam! and your such a fine example of perfection.

My Father told me something really sensable. He said to me.

" Ed! If you cannot say something nice about someone or some thing. Then my advice is to say nothing. " Bert Wood

That's wisdom Tarlam! Just a thought. Ever seriously take time for one Tarlam!? Thought?

GO PACK GO!

[mraynrand]

With a focus on a stupid penalty that led to a series of events that cost Brett Favre and the Vikings a Super Bowl appearance last season; and led to other factors of Vikings concern:

12 MEN IN THE HUDDLE REWIND

Coming out of their second timeout with 19 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and the score tied 28-28, the Vikings were in chaos facing a crucial third-and-long.

Fullback Naufahu Tahi was still on the field after blocking for Adrian Peterson on the previous no gain. Head coach Brad Childress and running backs coach Eric Bieniemy frantically waved for Tahi to get out of the huddle. Brett Favre, too, realized the problem and hurriedly called timeout, but not before flags flew.

The penalty knocked Minnesota back to the 38, confronting kicker Ryan Longwell with a potential 56-yard attempt instead of 51 yards and convincing the Vikings they needed to pass on third and 15.

Favre, gimpy on a severely sprained left ankle, rolled right and had at least 10 yards of open field between him and the far sideline to run, but he elected to throw across his body for Sidney Rice. Cornerback Tracy Porter intercepted.

New Orleans promptly won the overtime coin toss. Returner Pierre Thomas raced 40 yards from the goal line to give the Saints fantastic field position and set up Garrett Hartley for the 40-yard boot that put them in the Super Bowl.

The Vikings never touched the ball again.

On the kick coverage, Cedric Griffin, the Vikings' interception leader, tore his left anterior cruciate ligament, which required reconstructive surgery and leaves his status for tonight's rematch a game-time decision.

— Brian Murphy

I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? Whatever the case, let's note for the record that: (1) Favre didn't call timeout until the Vikings had broken the huddle and were getting set at the line of scrimmage; and (2) that the Vikings had already taken a timeout after the previous play and thus Favre's calling a second timeout would have resulted in a penalty in its own right had they not been penalized for 12 in the huddle.

" I am not clear on why you are rehashing this sequence now. Is there something new in what Murphy is writing that we didn't know before? "
... hoosier

I was looking at a popular Minnesota website last night and discovered similiar stories that we've seen of late RE: Vikings and need or not at WR. and ... Of their owners passion to see his team go all the way and win the Super Bowl .

When I found this article. I thought it was interesting that the author revisited that penalty. I felt that penalty was a crushing blow to the Vikings excellent chance to be NFC Champ. I was heavily involved in that game 'of course'. Well invested isn't an incorrect claim.

At the time and just prior to that penalty. I was picturing former Packer kicker 'and Packer great to me ' Ryan Longwell, making about a 50 yarder, to seal the deal. I was also at that time amazed given the punishment Favre received, and the turns of fortune that went against the Vikings. That they still looked good to advance to the Super Bowl. I'm sure many Vikings fans were tasting it and NFL fans were somewhere between pleased for 'the Vikings ' given their undaunted yet unrewarded history and just OKing to hating the moment, as the Vikings were setting up for a visit to the show.

Then that ridiculous 'given the time and circumstances' penalty. Holy mackeral I thought... Noooo! It had to be brutal to be a die hard Vikings fan.... Then I began much later and right up to last night ... to reflect on this wonderful game we love. Of all the experiences we have felt as football fans of the NFL generally, or of a specific team.

We are Packer fans and damn proud of that fact.

Last night as I wrote before. I reflected on the past experiences I felt as a Packer and NFL fan. It made me think of OUR sudden loss to the 49ers on ' the Steve Young closing series' that shouldn't have been. Yet was, after the Officials blew that call on 49er's WR Jerry Rice on the RH side.

Damn! It still bugs me.

Then ' the drive ', led by San Fran QB Steve Young and that subsequent incredibly acrobatic leaping to grab the ball and falling, to the ground catch by a WR that had been coming on our radar with his steller talent and colorful ways. San Fran WR Terrell Owens.

T.O. was surrounded by Packer defenders and he wouldn't be denied on that wild right to left slant to the end zone. What a frick'n catch !!

My whaaaat " I can't believe I saw that happen" moment for me, of sudden dispair and grief. My immediate reactions included this: It should never have been...Damn!! NFL Officials have done it to us again!

As they've done it to many NFL teams, and will in the future.

Sunday afternoon Officials in 'the most exciting league on the planet'. Unbelievable BS. The look of Holmgren and Favre on the sideline, as our fate was sealed. The feeling we as Packer fans felt, 'as disbelief', that we had lost that vital game. All the passion... of that whole thing.

That 12 man in the huddle penalty also made me think of the improbable, the infamous ' 4 and 26 ' and how we blew that game. The blame. How we tossed that around time after time as common posters in different forums. Given all of that. How we have come to somehow gleen a wee bit of ' the people we are here' as individuals. How we have agreed and disagreed with one another and somehow maintained this Packer fan site. We all deem or Packer home.

Take a look back at that horrible 12 man in the huddle penalty from a standpoint of how similiar happenings in crucial games affected us as Packer fans. I'm much more than ' just as Packer fan '. I love the NFL game and all the build up, all the hype and drama.

I love Packerrats. This is my only fan site. I never post in other site, yet from time to time depended on what I seek; I do visit other team sites. Why? Well I look for an edge as an NFL fan. I want to grow as an NFL fan.

I happen to feel that the common fans have alot more on the ball than alot of people (people even here at Packerrats) are willing to credit them with. It seems to me that some of the people here actually believe that ** their team managements, ALL RIGHT **. I seperate religion and Pro sports. I'm never going to be there **. I've too much experience to realize the counter argument holds alot of water.

Back to

a)12 men in the huddle .. Saints/Vikings NFC Championship Game 2009/10

b)The Steve Young Drive and the T.O. catch ( 49ers Steve Young, Jerry Rice and T.O. )

c)Packers and Philly NFC Championship game ( 4th and 26 )

That we as NFL fans take any moment in a game, any way we want to, as individuals. We either like it or love it or hate it, or are asleep, don't give a damn or otherwise are indifferent to it. All the same, we share it as we need to, as we feel in ourselves. We all share the moment as NFL fans and react as our emotions or intellect direct us. That is the deal. Just one example of how ' I feel ', we should conduct ourselves best in this lifetime. The respect we owe one another here and as we live our lives one to another, generally.

These are simply my thoughts hoosier and all posters at packerrats.

We go through this life one time. There is no set way we need to live here at Packerrats; but to try to respect one another or to live life generally. Arn't there better ways to live than to take up defensive, controlling, over assertive to aggressive, mind wasted strategies with people alot of us here hardly or really don't know? Can't we as members here grow as a community and learn something from every member?

Re-build Packerrasts to the best fan site offered on the internet?

I believe 'that utopian thought' has promise. I reached out to a member here ' last night ' that has disappeared for some reason. I'm concerned about this fella. Is he ok. Has his life taken a down turn? Is it any of my business?**

**Well he'll get my message or not and decide that matter.

This is a community of sorts and as members here we need to at least consider caring more about our posters that have made significant contributions to the growth and experience at Packerrats. That attitude will only play on other posters, to step up their game and fill the roles of those we now see amongst the missing.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27

Holy Toledo!

The mind of Woodbuck is a mysterious place:

I wrote that this morning as I would a rough copy and with no edit. If I want to write something better I edit three times. I just made my first edit. I apologize to the forum.

Are you really saying that your other posts have been edited? Three times?

[woodbuck27]

No mraynrand.

I should edit a long post like that abomination 'at least' three times.

I just felt like ramblin' on this morning. I got carried away with my thoughts about a bunch of things, that are connected and related to what is the cause of a big loss for any NFL team.

I tried to relate that 12 man in the huddle penalty on the Vikings last year. To happenings that caused our team a failure to advance deeper in the playoffs in our history.

If anyone was to have some insight into that post. There is a point I wanted to make mraynrand. That was a sloppy post. I admit it and apologize.

That too long post could have been summed up with these words:

Shit happens.

GO PACKERS!

[Tarlam!]

My Father told me something really sensable. He said to me.

" Ed! If you cannot say something nice about someone or some thing. Then my advice is to say nothing. " Bert Wood

That's wisdom Tarlam! Just a thought. Ever seriously take time for one Tarlam!? Thought?

GO PACK GO!

Actually, that quote predates Bert Wood. It dates back to the earliest Free Masons and my father told it to me when I was about 7 years old. The problem is, Ed, you don't take your own advice. You come on here, self righteuos, beating your chest and write pages of jiberish and you stick it to more posters than I care to count, all the while proclaiming your superior intellect and morals.

It makes me, and obviously others, sick. I have no problems with your views. I have a problem with you.

My name is Norbert.

[woodbuck27]

My Father told me something really sensable. He said to me.

" Ed! If you cannot say something nice about someone or some thing. Then my advice is to say nothing. " Bert Wood

That's wisdom Tarlam! Just a thought. Ever seriously take time for one Tarlam!? Thought?

GO PACK GO!

Actually, that quote predates Bert Wood. It dates back to the earliest Free Masons and my father told it to me when I was about 7 years old. The problem is, Ed, you don't take your own advice. You come on here, self righteuos, beating your chest and write pages of jiberish and you stick it to more posters than I care to count, all the while proclaiming your superior intellect and morals.

It makes me, and obviously others, sick. I have no problems with your views. I have a problem with you.

My name is Norbert.

I won't apologize for my confidence, nor my intelligence or wisdom Tarlam! ( Norbert ). I won't apologize for all I do to try to be a Packer fan and support for this forum that's hopefully viewed overall as positive. I certainly aim at that Tarlam!. I'm far from ' the tyrant ' you try to paint me to be.

I'm a gentleman Tarlam!, a team player. I'm ' all in ', attempting to be a positive poster and contributor here. You'll never deter that Tarlam!; inspite of your efforts over our past to run me down. Funny I've always treated you fairly and it's YOU Tarlam! that takes the low road. That attacks. Then you disparage me as I must respond to your attacks. It's not meant to be any circle jerk, Tarlam! I always wish for a win-win. We both win man if you only try to meet me half way and we build on that.

An alternative would be this.

T just give it up. Go back to the weak approach you suggested sometime ago. YOU and I no longer post one another. Not my way yours Tarlam!. See the problem lies in YOU Tarlam! not me. You'll never get that, because of who or what you are Norbert.

I rather suggest we act towords one another 'as gentleman'. Be ... to the positive man.

Going back to 2005. You've always taken the stance that I'm some really bad fella that is here to slam others. That's just BS Tarlam! I'm not capable of such low life behaviour. I'm capable of defending my views, rights and backing up my skills and I do Tarlam! That piss's you off. Right!?

I assert myself under attack, yet I'm not an antagonistic person / troublemaker. I defend my rights Tarlam! I back myself up as need be. I never judge a soul here at PackerRats Tarlam! Yet you'll hold me to some ridiculous standard based on yourself?

I won't apologize for working to be a knowlegeable NFL fan. I work hard at that Tarlam! Year after year I back myself up with solid performances in terms of various competitions I've entered. Your certainly aware of that.

I'll go on doing my thing and whatever you chose to think of me isn't my concern Tarlam!. This is a Packer forum not a popularity contest. I don't lose sleep, because you've always disparaged me Tarlam!.


GO PACKERS!

[Tarlam!]

More jiberish, chest pounding crap. Count the times you wrote the "I" or a declanation thereofe in that post. You need to step down off of that rocking horse. It obviously makes you dizzy.

People who have met me from PR collectively vouch for me. Ever noticed that, Ed? They have stated I am well mannered and a gentleman in REAL LIFE. All we have to go on is YOUR RAMBLINGS about you. You keep insisting how great you are, but I sense a certain ambition to cover up the REAL you.

I have witnesses as to MY character. You have jiberish.

[Tarlam!]

To all at PR

I apologize for my personal attack on Woodbuck27. I just couldn't hold it in any longer. I am totally against personally attacking another poster. I will do my utmost to leave it behind me and be a decent contributor.

[swede]

More jiberish, chest pounding crap. Count the times you wrote the "I" or a declanation thereofe in that post. You need to step down off of that rocking horse. It obviously makes you dizzy.

People who have met me from PR collectively vouch for me. Ever noticed that, Ed? They have stated I am well mannered and a gentleman in REAL LIFE. All we have to go on is YOUR RAMBLINGS about you. You keep insisting how great you are, but I sense a certain ambition to cover up the REAL you.

I have witnesses as to MY character. You have jiberish.

Do Australians and Canadians generally feel a bit of sibling rivalry as children of the British Empire?

The Canadians seem to be the prissy favored child what with the gaudy ostentatiousness of the R.M.C.P., their willingness to speak French and all.

And Australians...well they were sent away to a kind of boarding school for wayward naughties.

[woodbuck27]

More jiberish, chest pounding crap. Count the times you wrote the "I" or a declanation thereofe in that post. You need to step down off of that rocking horse. It obviously makes you dizzy.

People who have met me from PR collectively vouch for me. Ever noticed that, Ed? They have stated I am well mannered and a gentleman in REAL LIFE. All we have to go on is YOUR RAMBLINGS about you. You keep insisting how great you are, but I sense a certain ambition to cover up the REAL you.

I have witnesses as to MY character. You have jiberish.

I also have a decent set of manners and am of good character Tarlam! I always have tried my very best to reach you as such and I constantly have failed. I don't have excessive pride and always can admit any error as it applys.

Our history is repleat with your constant barrage of attacks against me Norbert. Far removed from the other way around. Why can't you be at least honest with yourself Norbert. Be a decent man and own up to the facts Vs me? That goes way back in time from your first attack to the one in this thread.

This is not meant as an attack against you Norbert. Merely I question you and your motives Vs me? It's not fair to me or to this forum for you to act as you always get to with me. I merely sometimes respond to your attacks as an honour to myself and to my integrity. In you that isn't ever right man.

Your just frustrating and unfair to yourself as I see it.

How's my clarity in this post Norbert?

I'll give as I've always have given to you. Only that Norbert. I believe that it's this simple between us. A personality difference that leads to unwanted conflict. It's personally embarassing to me to have to always defend my self against your angst. I won't ever go there again.

Judge me as YOU so please, Norbert. Whatever works for you. I'm man enough to withstand you. I always have.

I'm not your enemy rather your friend Norbert. Try to understand that. Try to build from that, as it's TRUTH.

Have a lovely day Packer fan.

My name is Ed. wooodbuck27

[woodbuck27]

More jiberish, chest pounding crap. Count the times you wrote the "I" or a declanation thereofe in that post. You need to step down off of that rocking horse. It obviously makes you dizzy.

People who have met me from PR collectively vouch for me. Ever noticed that, Ed? They have stated I am well mannered and a gentleman in REAL LIFE. All we have to go on is YOUR RAMBLINGS about you. You keep insisting how great you are, but I sense a certain ambition to cover up the REAL you.

I have witnesses as to MY character. You have jiberish.

Do Australians and Canadians generally feel a bit of sibling rivalry as children of the British Empire?

The Canadians seem to be the prissy favored child what with the gaudy ostentatiousness of the R.M.C.P., their willingness to speak French and all.

And Australians...well they were sent away to a kind of boarding school for wayward naughties.

hahaaha.You Swede can always defuse a poor situation.

By the way Swede. As I know mine and Austrailian history your certainly making a fair point of reference. Hahaaha

Your ... cool man.

Can we discuss football now Tarlam!?

GO PACKERS! Go tough on the Bills this Sunday.

Predicted score ... 34-10 ... Packers!!

[Guiness]

More jiberish, chest pounding crap. Count the times you wrote the "I" or a declanation thereofe in that post. You need to step down off of that rocking horse. It obviously makes you dizzy.

People who have met me from PR collectively vouch for me. Ever noticed that, Ed? They have stated I am well mannered and a gentleman in REAL LIFE. All we have to go on is YOUR RAMBLINGS about you. You keep insisting how great you are, but I sense a certain ambition to cover up the REAL you.

I have witnesses as to MY character. You have jiberish.

*sigh* wish that there would be another Packer Rats poster's game. I had a chance to go to the last one, but didn't - not knowing it would be the last at the time!

[Fritz]

The latest back and forth is certainly in keeping with the tenor of the Brett Favre thread!