Backwards is Forwards?

[Harlan Huckleby]

How did Hasselbeck throw a pass that lands 3 yards behind him, and have it count as an incomplete pass? (Nullifying a fumble)

The explanation given by Moose Johnson later in the game was that Hasselbeck was stepping forward. Huh? What is a forward pass and what is a lateral?

(sorry if this was already discussed somewhere else. but not too sorry.)

[mmmdk]

How did Hasselbeck throw a pass that lands 3 yards behind him, and have it count as an incomplete pass? (Nullifying a fumble)

The explanation given by Moose Johnson later in the game was that Hasselbeck was stepping forward. Huh? What is a forward pass and what is a lateral?

Big screwup by refs - I fumed when they called incomplete. So wrong.

[packinpatland]

I agree..............I need a better explanation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I got more pissed off by the explanation than by the call!

[Freak Out]

They'll say later that yes....we fucked up. Sorry.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Why didn't McCarthy challenge?

There didn't appear to be a whistle, the players were scrambled for the ball much later, and the refs didn't stop play.

[Joemailman]

How did Hasselbeck throw a pass that lands 3 yards behind him, and have it count as an incomplete pass? (Nullifying a fumble)

The explanation given by Moose Johnson later in the game was that Hasselbeck was stepping forward. Huh? What is a forward pass and what is a lateral?

(sorry if this was already discussed somewhere else. but not too sorry.)

I'm going to predict that this is one of those obscure rules, and that the refs got it right.

[MJZiggy]

Because his arm was moving forward? If his arm was moving forward, how come the ball went backward?

[packinpatland]

I thought a lateral or a backward pass was considered a fumble if 'uncaught'.

[mission]

I thought a lateral or a backward pass was considered a fumble if 'uncaught'.

it is.

if i take a snap and turn around, face my own end zone and throw the ball (yes my arm is moving forward) backwards... it's a fumble. it's not a forward pass.

[Packers4Ever]

Why didn't McCarthy challenge?

There didn't appear to be a whistle, the players were scrambled for the ball much later, and the refs didn't stop play.


MM skipped/missed a challenge at another point during the game. Brett had to call it to his attention to get a flag. It was to determine exactly where the ball had stopped on field, making it 3rd down or 4th. You probably all remember that one.

[oregonpackfan]

Why didn't McCarthy challenge?

There didn't appear to be a whistle, the players were scrambled for the ball much later, and the refs didn't stop play.


MM skipped/missed a challenge at another point during the game. Brett had to call it to his attention to get a flag. It was to determine exactly where the ball had stopped on field, making it 3rd down or 4th. You probably all remember that one.

I remember that play. Bubba caught a pass and extended his arm and placed the ball at what appeared to be inches ahead of the first down marker. An official came up and placed it about 6" behind the initial spot. A measurement showed the new ball placement was short of the first down.

It was at this point that Favre encouraged M3 to make the challenge. The review of the challenge showed the ball was improperly placed. The revised placement was measured and the Packers were awarded the first down.

The challenge was important because it continued the drive which allowed the Packers to score a touchdown. Favre was alert enough to watch the Jumbotron about the misplacement by the ref.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Why didn't McCarthy challenge?

There didn't appear to be a whistle, the players were scrambled for the ball much later, and the refs didn't stop play.


MM skipped/missed a challenge at another point during the game. Brett had to call it to his attention to get a flag. It was to determine exactly where the ball had stopped on field, making it 3rd down or 4th. You probably all remember that one.

I remember that play. Bubba caught a pass and extended his arm and placed the ball at what appeared to be inches ahead of the first down marker. An official came up and placed it about 6" behind the initial spot. A measurement showed the new ball placement was short of the first down.

It was at this point that Favre encouraged M3 to make the challenge. The review of the challenge showed the ball was improperly placed. The revised placement was measured and the Packers were awarded the first down.

The challenge was important because it continued the drive which allowed the Packers to score a touchdown. Favre was alert enough to watch the Jumbotron about the misplacement by the ref.

How could anyone miss that? It was the turning point of the game. The ref completely blew that spot, and even when they respotted it was still a full football length behind where it should have been. I recorded the game so I saw it. Bubba's knee was the last thing to touch the ground AFTER he had already extended. At least they got it far enough, but It kinda seemed like they tried to cover up the blown spot by the way they respotted it after replay.

The pass by Hasselbeck should have been ruled a backwards lateral. Hasselbeck stepped sideways not forward, same as any QB does throwing toward the flat. His arm went completely around and he threw the back backward. I think McCarthy figured they were so far ahead late in the game it would look bad if he challenged.

[PlantPage55]

How could anyone miss that? It was the turning point of the game. The ref completely blew that spot, and even when they respotted it was still a full football length behind where it should have been. I recorded the game so I saw it. Bubba's knee was the last thing to touch the ground AFTER he had already extended. At least they got it far enough, but It kinda seemed like they tried to cover up the blown spot by the way they respotted it after replay.


You got that right. If you go back and watch, the ball should have been placed at the TOP of the up-and-down line part of the "P" in PLAYOFFS. Where the ref put it, even AFTER the re-spot, was on the Hole in the letter "P." Good thing it still gave us a 1st down, I'd have been LIVID!

[Harlan Huckleby]

As far as that Bubba spot: it did appear like his knee MIGHT have hit the grass before he was fully extended, so I was surprised that the Packers won that challenge. It was a bad spot, but I thought they'd get screwed by the "incontrovertible evidence" test.

Back to Wrong Way Hasselbeck: I hope a reporter asks McCarthy why the hell he didn't challenge that obvious lateral. Maybe there is a good answer, an obscure rule as the postman suggests. I think more likely it was a brain fart on Coach's part.

[BallHawk]

I don't think it was a brain fart, Harlan. I think it was simply McCarthy showing some class and not challenging a play that only would of resulted in a 10-15 yard loss. If the Packers recover maybe he challenges, but at that point in the game you're not looking to embarrass the other team. McCarthy's challenged some many random plays this year that I would find it hard to believe this would would of been an exception.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think it was simply McCarthy showing some class and not challenging a play that only would of resulted in a 10-15 yard loss. If the Packers recover maybe he challenges, but at that point in the game you're not looking to embarrass the other team.

I don't remember exactly when this happened, but they didn't have the game put away. It was a sure-thing, "class" does not enter into it.

[ND72]

They'll say later that yes....we fucked up. Sorry.


Subway Commerical...."I'll penalize the other team later in the game, for no good reason at all."

[The Leaper]

I'm going to predict that this is one of those obscure rules, and that the refs got it right.

Don't think so.

For one thing, Hasselbeck was NOT stepping forward. He was pivoting backwards as he threw the ball. I'm not sure who had the bright idea to use that as an excuse...but it made Moose look like an idiot.

It doesn't matter where the target receiver is...if you release the ball and it goes backwards, it is a lateral. If there is a rule pertaining to the QB stepping forward, it won't apply in this instance.

It was a good no challenge by McCarthy. The game was essentially over by that point...no need to rub it in. We were up 3 scores with under 10 minutes to play...and Seattle had only scored 6 points in the last 3 quarters at that point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What was the score when the lateral happened? I thought it was early in third quarter when game was still undecided.

[The Leaper]

What was the score when the lateral happened? I thought it was early in third quarter when game was still undecided.

I'm not entirely sure of the time...but I'm pretty positive it occured in the 4th quarter.

[Fosco33]

What was the score when the lateral happened? I thought it was early in third quarter when game was still undecided.

I'm not entirely sure of the time...but I'm pretty positive it occured in the 4th quarter.

It was right after the terrible 15 yr PF on Williams for a major facemask (clearly showed a minor infraction after being held).

Happened with about 9 min left in 4th Q - same score as final.

[PackerTimer]

Why didn't McCarthy challenge?

There didn't appear to be a whistle, the players were scrambled for the ball much later, and the refs didn't stop play.


MM skipped/missed a challenge at another point during the game. Brett had to call it to his attention to get a flag. It was to determine exactly where the ball had stopped on field, making it 3rd down or 4th. You probably all remember that one.

Actually, I got kind of tired of hearing the announcers saying Favre was responsible for that challenge. MM had a ton of time to look at the replay on the board as a result of the measurement. I'm sure the guys in the booth took a close look at it too. Just because we saw Favre, pointing up at the screen doesn't mean MM wasn't aware of the situation. I think everybody in the stadium and watching knew that play was going to be challenged and I'm 100% positive that MM knew what was going on with that one.

[MJZiggy]

In his press conference, M3 said that he did not have a good view of it, but Philbin did up in the booth, knew it was a bad spot and was already on it before Favre said anything about it. M3 gave props to everyone from the booth to the scoreboard operators for that one.