R.Grant pics and video from Seahawk game

[pack4to84]

Seattle had 9 in the box when he broke off his 44 yard run. He's not like AP who cant run against 8 men in the box. Grant has had his biggest runs with 8 or more in the box. Bears, Dallas, and now Seahawks have put 8 men or more just to see him run right by them. I have said this in Packers forums that Grant style of running force's teams to not to put 8 in the box. He seams to excel with 8 in the box. I have been saying this for awhile. I thought he reminded me of Bo Jackson, but after watching video of him on youtube dont think he runs like him. Now I am convinced after watch some video of Marcus Allen, Grant has the same running style as Allen. Just haven't seen Grant pull off a reverse field run yet.
Here is proof of 9 in the box on his 44yard run

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8422/rgrant44yderhx0.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rgrant44yderhx0.jpg)
http://www.mediafire.com/?e2p1nrqztm4

Proof on 8 in the box on his 22yard run
http://www.mediafire.com/?7xb2mnm2jyy
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2960/rgrant22ydsfz1.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rgrant22ydsfz1.jpg)
another angle
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6568/rgrant1tp2.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rgrant1tp2.jpg)

[pack4to84]

update uploaded both files to a new file hosting site

[hoosier]

He's not like AP who cant run against 8 men in the box.

Uh wha????? The Vikings opponents were playing 4-4 defenses for most of the second half of the year. That's 8 in teh box every time, often 9. Peterson still averaged well over 5 yards per carry. I like Grant as much as the next guy, but let's not get carried away.

[pack4to84]

He's not like AP who cant run against 8 men in the box.

Uh wha????? The Vikings opponents were playing 4-4 defenses for most of the second half of the year. That's 8 in teh box every time, often 9. Peterson still averaged well over 5 yards per carry. I like Grant as much as the next guy, but let's not get carried away.
last 4 games for the great AP
SF 14 carries 3 yards what a 0.21 yard avg
Chi 11 carries 36 yards 3.2 yard avg
Was 9 carries 27 yards 3 yard avg
Den 20 carries 78 yards 3.9 yard avg

last 4 games combined 54 carries 144 yards a 2.66 yard avg

[vince]

Although he's bigger than Marcus Allen ever was, I too like that comparison.

I also don't think its getting "carried away" by stating facts about the production of a running back.

An argument can be made that those who get "carried away" are the ones who overrate what can be the fools' gold of "talent" relative to the superior value of less sexy players that have the work ethic, core skills, grasp of the fundamentals of success, intelligence, and fit to a team's system to deliver great production.

Not that I'm dissing Peterson. I think, if he stays healthy, he'll be great. Based on his production, there's no reason why the same can't be said for Ryan Grant.

[gbgary]

GREAT pictures and info. RG is the real deal. and hey...there's gotta be some good blocking going on by this much maligned o-line for him to be doing what he's doing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Although he's bigger than Marcus Allen ever was, I too like that comparison.

I also don't think its getting "carried away" by stating facts about the production of a running back.

An argument can be made that those who get "carried away" are the ones who overrate what can be the fools' gold of "talent" relative to the superior value of less sexy players that have the work ethic, core skills, grasp of the fundamentals of success, intelligence, and fit to a team's system to deliver great production.

Not that I'm dissing Peterson. I think, if he stays healthy, he'll be great. Based on his production, there's no reason why the same can't be said for Ryan Grant.

Of course, you're not comparing Grant and Peterson. I doubt because Grant ran for big yards against the undersized Seahawks with 8 men in the box that he got "most of his big runs" against 8 men in the box. This week? Yes. Previous weeks? Hardly. In fact, the coordinators were saying a week or two ago that Grant's gotten a lot of his big runs out of the spread formation. I doubt Grant has seen half the 8 men in the box that Peterson saw. Give me a break. 8 men in the box against Favre? Crazy. 8 men in the box against Tarvaris Jackson? Of course. He saw 8 men this week because we got up on and pounded them in a snowstorm.

I was on the Grant bandwagon early, but let's not get carried away. Peterson is a ridiculous talent. Is he injury prone? Could be. When healthy, is he the best runner in the league? Quite possibly.

[hoosier]

last 4 games combined 54 carries 144 yards a 2.66 yard avg

I suspect that's more a reflection of his playing hurt than anything.

[vince]

Although he's bigger than Marcus Allen ever was, I too like that comparison.

I also don't think its getting "carried away" by stating facts about the production of a running back.

An argument can be made that those who get "carried away" are the ones who overrate what can be the fools' gold of "talent" relative to the superior value of less sexy players that have the work ethic, core skills, grasp of the fundamentals of success, intelligence, and fit to a team's system to deliver great production.

Not that I'm dissing Peterson. I think, if he stays healthy, he'll be great. Based on his production, there's no reason why the same can't be said for Ryan Grant.

Of course, you're not comparing Grant and Peterson. I doubt because Grant ran for big yards against the undersized Seahawks with 8 men in the box that he got "most of his big runs" against 8 men in the box. This week? Yes. Previous weeks? Hardly. In fact, the coordinators were saying a week or two ago that Grant's gotten a lot of his big runs out of the spread formation. I doubt Grant has seen half the 8 men in the box that Peterson saw. Give me a break. 8 men in the box against Favre? Crazy. 8 men in the box against Tarvaris Jackson? Of course. He saw 8 men this week because we got up on and pounded them in a snowstorm.

I was on the Grant bandwagon early, but let's not get carried away. Peterson is a ridiculous talent. Is he injury prone? Could be. When healthy, is he the best runner in the league? Quite possibly.
Harv, I have NEVER ONCE made the argument that Ryan Grant is as talented overall as Adrian Peterson, yet you insist that I have. I'm not comparing their overall talent. You are. And then for some reason you are argumentative about it when I agreed with your position before it was ever brought up in the first place.

Talent may or may not translate into production - for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the production of the other members of one's team and defenders’ strategies to stop it. Defenses obviously can overload against the run and make it very difficult to run.

I and pack4to84 are comparing the OBJECTIVE RESULTS in order to discuss Ryan Grant – not Adrian Peterson. This is a Packer board after all.

What contributes to Ryan Grant’s surprising success – IF NOT FOR TALENT? He’s the poster boy for Plain Jane production – something I find very intriguing.

Brett Favre? Sure, but Ryan Grant has outproduced all other backs that have played with him including Ahman Green in the last few years and he's on par with Green's best years.

So there’s something else! That’s what I’m trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to explore as it pertains to Ryan Grant - not Adrian Peterson.

4to84 makes the argument and backs it up with some facts that Grant has had success when defenses have put 8 or 9 in the box. He may or may not be right about that, but he brings the facts that would tend to support it. So maybe there’s more than not stacking the box too…

You just keep coming back to Adrian Peterson’s talent.

[pack4to84]

guess what I found after watching some more video of the game. One more play where Grant breaks off a run of 26 yards vs 9 in the box.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3685/9inboxyr2.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9inboxyr2.jpg)
http://www.mediafire.com/?8bjsi2nxtiz

The very next play vs 8 in box he runs for 15 yards.

so far I have found
Vs 8 in box
22y
7y
15y

Vs 9 in box
44y
26y
8y this one should have gotten a 15y late hit out of bounds flag

[gbgary]

that's amazing!

[4and12to12and4]

Grant may not have the sexy cutback moves that AP has, obviously, and that is why some here think that AP is so much better, AP can stop on a dime and change his direction immediately and is strong enough to ward off arm tackles while doing it. Those moves make him very fun to watch and he looks spectacular doing it. Grant has his own skills. His best feature is the ability to be at full speed almost immediately. He doesn't need to run for a while going from 1st gear to second to third, etc.. He has the unbelievable ability to seemingly go from 1 to 5 in just a couple of yards, which is why he blows through the hole so quickly and creates bad angles for tacklers, they are trying to tackle him from the side or behind because he is too fast to stay directly in front of. What's amazing is that he can still find the hole, he has incredible ability and vision to find and get into the hole while going at full speed. His semi-erect running style (ala Marcus Allen) allows him to make small adjustments or cuts that allow him to make people miss, he doesn't need to stop completely and pivot (ala Barry Sanders, AP) to make them miss. He does it at top speed which doesn't look as sexy but is probably more effective because he is ALWAYS continuing forward. That's what is so amazing about him, he is ALWAYS moving north and south with a small cut here and there to avoid tacklers at full speed. He IS the real deal, and he has his own "talent", you just have to know what you're looking for.

[gbgary]

i'm watching the replay on nfl network and watching for the 8-9 in the box and it's awesome how they had such big gains against it.

[vince]

Grant may not have the sexy cutback moves that AP has, obviously, and that is why some here think that AP is so much better, AP can stop on a dime and change his direction immediately and is strong enough to ward off arm tackles while doing it. Those moves make him very fun to watch and he looks spectacular doing it. Grant has his own skills. His best feature is the ability to be at full speed almost immediately. He doesn't need to run for a while going from 1st gear to second to third, etc.. He has the unbelievable ability to seemingly go from 1 to 5 in just a couple of yards, which is why he blows through the hole so quickly and creates bad angles for tacklers, they are trying to tackle him from the side or behind because he is too fast to stay directly in front of. What's amazing is that he can still find the hole, he has incredible ability and vision to find and get into the hole while going at full speed. His semi-erect running style (ala Marcus Allen) allows him to make small adjustments or cuts that allow him to make people miss, he doesn't need to stop completely and pivot (ala Barry Sanders, AP) to make them miss. He does it at top speed which doesn't look as sexy but is probably more effective because he is ALWAYS continuing forward. That's what is so amazing about him, he is ALWAYS moving north and south with a small cut here and there to avoid tacklers at full speed. He IS the real deal, and he has his own "talent", you just have to know what you're looking for.
Nice post 4and12. As you've said, the talents Grant possesses aren't flashy, but they sure do translate into production. I'd also add that his work ethic, intelligence, fit to the zbs, and coachability also contribute. Kudos to him for maximizing his opportunity.

He's gonna get better and better. He's got five years of prime running left in him, if he can stay healthy. What a value.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who the hell said he wasn't the real deal? I said he was the real deal months ago. Most of you were late on the bandwagon.

While we're at it, Grant is much more "productive" than LaDainian Tomlinson also.

[vince]

He's certainly been on par with Tomlinson at least. A 1500-yard season (had Grant played all season) is nothing to downplay for sure, no matter what team you're playing on. You can say what you want to about whether the the Packers use the pass to set up the run or the run to set up the pass, I'd say defenses are going to try to stop the run first either way. With as much criticism as the Packers run blocking has sustained, it makes his achievements this year even more poignant.

Impressive company for guy who makes the league minimum. I don't know what Tomlinson's contract looks like but I bet Grant will never command the salary that Tomlinson does - particularly if he's signed to a long-term deal this offseason.

In today's NFL, Ryan Grant is perhaps the ideal running back to have. Great acceleration, great vision, great body lean, great attitude, great intelligence, very good speed, hard downhill runner, big and strong, hard worker, and just as important, not flashy.

[4and12to12and4]

Who the hell said he wasn't the real deal? I said he was the real deal months ago. Most of you were late on the bandwagon.

While we're at it, Grant is much more "productive" than LaDainian Tomlinson also.

If you thought he was better than Jackson in the first half of the season, then Kudos to you. I rode the Jackson bandwagon all year, and am still on it, I think they can both work together in the backfield keeping each other fresh, I still think Jackson is a very good back.

The reason why you and Vince are not seeing eye to eye is that you watch LT and AP run and say "wow" because of their ability to stop on a dime, cut, and contort their bodies in ways that are 'Barryesk' and I admire them too. I am a very late bandwagon jumper for Grant because he "isnt" spectacular as far as his moves are concerned, but what pack4to84, vince, and I are saying is that Marcus Allen wasn't like that either. A perfect example of another back that isn't spectacular looking is Shaun Alexander. He runs upright and seems slow, yet is much faster than he looks and makes people miss with very slight movement and fluidity. To watch him, he seems rather average, yet he was, in his prime, as good as anyone in the league. My god, he rushed for 30+ TD's in a season. Only LT had a better scoring year.

So, we are just dissecting why Grant seems to have that same ability. He is as productive as AP and LT and according to the evidence in this thread, maybe more productive then both, yet doesn't have the flashy moves, so does that make him a lesser talent? I say no, he just has different talents.

The ability to make smaller running adjustments at full speed is in some ways harder than the stop and cut and have to start up again, because he is always going forward. LT and guys like that lose a lot of yardage stopping and restarting (Bush is the worst at that).

Grant almost never dances around in the backfield and that is why I think he is as good as them. I didn't see it at first because it's not flashy, but we can't just ignore his numbers and think he's benefitting from our offense. That's just not so. It's obvious that he has special talent and great vision and speed. That's why this thread was started, to explore the "why" in his productivity. So, you kind of are saying you think he isn't the real deal if you say he is getting his numbers because of Favre and think that these other backs are so much better than him. Aren't you?

[4and12to12and4]

Just another thought. Guys like Barry Sanders and LT get all the media attention because they are fun to watch as they stop and start and spin and cut on a dime, etc. However, the "Bushes" of the world lose a lot of yardage and have many bad games due to that fact. Also, they are a liability in the red zone, with maybe LT being the exception, because they aren't north-south runners. Coaches tend to call on the McAllisters, the Brandon Jacobs, the (whoever was backing up Barry all those years) in goal line situations because of their liability. Grant, however, is the perfect style runner on 3rd and short and goal line situations BECAUSE of his running style. So, does that make him not as talented? I think it makes him multi-dimensional and worth more than they. He just won't make as many highlight reels, but he sure will make defenders respect the running game in those situations, making the play-action work!!