Packer O not OK

[Harlan Huckleby]

Thompson needs to upgrade Packers' offensive personnel
TOM OATES, WSJ

GREEN BAY - Watch two days of minicamp practices and one thing jumps out about the Green Bay Packers offense.

The most improved position since last season is backup quarterback.

Aaron Rodgers is bigger, stronger and more confident than he was as a rookie, which is encouraging news for the post-Brett Favre years. Since Favre is still around, however, it is not a good sign for this fall that the talent is no better than it was last year, when the Packers suffered an offensive meltdown and their first losing season since 1991.

General manager Ted Thompson has quietly fortified the defense during the offseason, adding five probable starters. He has not done the same on offense even though a case can be made that the offense needed it more.

Thompson has said he expects this year's offensive improvement to come from injured players returning to health. That argument was plausible until wide receiver Javon Walker, who played one game in 2005 due to injury, forced a trade to Denver. Now, help will have to come from elsewhere.

It's only May and Thompson's work isn't necessarily done, but with only one potential new starter - rookie guard Daryn Colledge - imported on offense, the prospects for major improvement are iffy. It appears any improvement this year will have come not from new players but from the new systems employed by first-year coach Mike McCarthy.

Six positions on offense - Favre, fullback William Henderson, wide receiver Donald Driver, tight end Bubba Franks and tackles Mark Tauscher and Chad Clifton - haven't changed. It is the remaining five positions where the Packers must get better.

But have they?

At center, third-year man Scott Wells will replace Mike Flanagan, a borderline Pro Bowl talent who left in free agency. Although he lacks ideal height, Wells is a sound player who has a chance to be a solid starter.

But will he be better this season than even an ailing Flanagan, was last season? No.

Last year's guards, Adrian Klemm and Will Whiticker, failed so miserably they've been banished to tackle. That created openings at what remains the offense's weakest position.

Colledge was handed the left guard job and the second-round draft pick looks the part. He's tall, mature and very athletic. Keep in mind, however, he's a rookie making the transition from college tackle to NFL guard and he might lack the bulk to contend with the monsters who play defensive tackle in the NFC North Division.

The right guard is Junius Coston, a fifth-round pick in 2005 who played four snaps as a rookie. Coston is athletic, which fits McCarthy's zone-blocking scheme, but has done nothing to prove he has starter's talent.

Of the backups, only Kevin Barry offers any immediate hope. However, he can't - or won't - lose enough weight to play guard in McCarthy's scheme.

Can Colledge and Coston replace last year's guards? They can't be any worse, but it's doubtful they'll be any better, either. At least not right away.

At wide receiver, two career underachievers, Robert Ferguson and Rod Gardner, are the top candidates to replace Walker. Ferguson has been a disappointment for five years, which means he'll probably be a disappointment for six. Gardner is a big, physical receiver who can't stretch the field like Walker.

The Packers drafted Greg Jennings in the second round and he's been quick and sure-handed in minicamps. However, as Walker, Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman have shown, it usually takes wide receivers a year to get up to speed in the West Coast offense. Another possibility is free agent Marc Boerigter, who looks a lot like Gardner, only slower.

So what are the chances that whoever lines up with Driver will elevate the play of the wide receivers from last year? Not good.

The Packers brought back almost all of their running backs - starter Ahman Green, backup Najeh Davenport and overnight sensation Samkon Gado - for at least one more year.

However, Green is recovering from leg surgery and there are serious doubts about whether he can ever be the premier back he once was. Meanwhile, Davenport is too injury-prone to be a No. 1 guy and Gado is too raw to be counted on in that capacity.

Unless Green regains his form or Gado is the real deal, neither of which is a given, the running game will continue to struggle.

As you can see, the Packers haven't guaranteed they'll be better than last year at any position on offense. Maybe there's only so much a general manager can do in one offseason, but NFL teams will be cutting veterans starting June 1 and two days of minicamp practices have shown Thompson still has work to do on his offensive roster.

[RashanGary]

I'm hoping for an OG and a RB.

I just don't trust Junius Coston. Maybe it's because I don't know anything about him.

[Joemailman]

The writer says the Packers haven't guaranteed there is any position on offense where they will be better. OK, I'll give him that. There are no guarantees. However, I think there is a strong likelihood that whoever lines up at Guard will do a better job than Klemm/Whitticker did last year. I think there is a strong likelihoodthat we won't have the incredible run of injuries at runningback we had last year. I think there is a strong likelihood that the Packers will get more out of Bubba Franks than they got last year. I think there is a strong likelihood that if we suffer injuries at Wide Receiver, that Boerigter will be better than the Taco Wallaces of last year. I also think there is a strong likelihood that the coaching staff will be able to get Favre to make better decisions than he at times made last year.

There is no doubt that the strength of this team is the defense. However, although the talent level on offense seems much the same, I think, when you look at everything, there is a strong likelihood that the offense will be better. Not great, but better.

[RashanGary]

I agree Route. The defense looks much stronger and the offense should be somewhat better.

[Tarlam!]

I think the article is bang on in many areas. I also think Joemailman's reply is bang on.

It's O.K. for the press to be looking for weaknesses. I think the reporter was objectively writing what we all know anyways:

-Green needs to find his old form,
-Najeh is injury prone and
-Gado still has a mountain to climb.
-Coston is not Rivera.
-Colledge is not Wahle. Yet.

I think the writer omitted giving DD his dues. To me, DD is better than a #2, not quite the elite #1. But it is DD who will replace Walker, and the old position he had is up for grabs. Fergie, Gardner, Boerigter and Jennings are no way being looked at to replace Walker. They are being looked at for #2-#6.

I also give the writer credit for acknowleding TT's efforts on the other side of the ball, but he failed to note TT drafted guys with the ability to return kicks/punts. But he also went easy on us for not having a decent punter or kicker.

[Patler]

I'm sorry, but this article is a bit ridiculous.

1. How can any judgments be made on the basis of a few practices run in shorts? To imply that he can is nothing short of absurd.

2. Of course Wells can be as good as Flanagan of LAST YEAR. To flat out state "No" to the question of whether Wells can be better than "an ailing Flanagan" of last year is preposterous. In case the writer has forgotten, Flanagan was not very good last year. The pro-bowl alternate in 2005 was a continuation of name recognition, certainly not based on his performance LAST YEAR when he played most of the year either injured, or recovering from surgery. Flanagan of pro-bowl stature has not been seen in Green Bay since 2003, with his play in both 2004 and 2005 having been dictated by injuries

3. With no hitting and with about 5 days of walk through type practices, how can any judgment be made on how good Colledge and Coston will be? Plus, how difficult will it be for them to be better than Whiticker or Klemm of 2005? To me it is likely that the guards, whoever they are, will be better performers than the guards of last year. Heck, it Whiticker is the starter in 2006, he should be better than in 2005. Colledge is a second round draft choice, its not a leap to expect him to come in and play better than last year's guards. Isn't Coston following the exact path you prefer for lower round draft picks? Demonstrate great athletic ability, spend a year learning without the pressure of playing, then come in and contribute. Of course he still has to demonstrate that he can play. That's what training camp and preseason games are for. Young, unproven players can and do make a difference on O-lines every year. It wasn't that many years ago the Packers played the season with TWO rookie tackles, arguably a more difficult situation than two inexperienced guards. His analysis of backups is flawed, because there is the possibility of Tauscher at guard and Barry at tackle.

4. Why does he campare the receivers to Walker and ask if they are better than Walker? In case the writer has forgotten, Walker basically did not play in 2005. For the team to be better than last year, a comparison to Walker is irrelevant. His analysis is flawed. If Boerigter looks slower than Gardner, the torn ACL must have slowed him tremendously. Boerigter's history of big plays, long touchdowns suggests he has speed and CAN "stretch the field". I know he has a limited number of receptions, but his average of 17.9 yards per reception shows big play capability and is two yards better than Walker. It's better than Walker's best year average-wise, which was 2003 at 17.5. I'm in no way sugesting Boerigter will even approach Walker's overall ability, but he doesn't have to for the Packers to improve over 2005, because Walker wasn't part of 2005. Overall, the receivers should be better than the mess of 2005 at that position. Gardner alone as the likely second starter should make them better.

5. Green doesn't have to be as good as "the premier back he once was". For GB to be better in 2006 Green only has to be better than he was in 2005. If he isn't, he won't even make the team. The running game can be much better even without a "featured back". If Gado can perform like he showed last year even in a more limited capacity, Davenport can play some and Green or someone else contribute the running game of 2006 will be better than 2005. Runningback by committee can be effective.

6. He gives TT no credit for taking O-linemen with the #47 and #75 picks, and receivers with the #52 and #104 picks. I would argue that these guys, even as backups, should make the offense better than last year when our first line of reserves was made up of street free-agents.


Overall, a pointless article for this time of year. Obviously an article designed only for raising controversy. It certainly was very poor as an analytical piece.

[packrulz]

It's easy to point out the question marks surrounding the offense since the Packers went 4-12 last year, changes need to be made. I blame some of those losses on the coaching & play calling last year, sticking with the same old U-71 & shovel pass, & a failure to make needed adjustments during the game. This year there will be a new coaching staff & scheme so the lineman will have different responsibilities which should be easier to execute. I like the youth on the O-line, including Whiticker, the guy was a rookie last year. It will take time to get the offense going but the schedule is easier & they do play in the NFC North which will help. I remember when Rivera was in NFLE & the Pack wasn't sure Wahle would make the team after he failed at tackle. I think the Pack has some good lineman they just need more reps & conditioning.

[MJZiggy]

I'm sorry, but this article is a bit ridiculous.



4. Why does he campare the receivers to Walker and ask if they are better than Walker? In case the writer has forgotten, Walker basically did not play in 2005. For the team to be better than last year, a comparison to Walker is irrelevant. His analysis is flawed. If Boerigter looks slower than Gardner, the torn ACL must have slowed him tremendously. Boerigter's history of big plays, long touchdowns suggests he has speed and CAN "stretch the field". I know he has a limited number of receptions, but his average of 17.9 yards per reception shows big play capability and is two yards better than Walker. It's better than Walker's best year average-wise, which was 2003 at 17.5. I'm in no way sugesting Boerigter will even approach Walker's overall ability, but he doesn't have to for the Packers to improve over 2005, because Walker wasn't part of 2005. Overall, the receivers should be better than the mess of 2005 at that position. Gardner alone as the likely second starter should make them better.


I agree with everything you wrote Patrock. When reading about the receivers, the author's comments struck me differently. It occurred to me that the receivers that TT brought in this offseason won't be replacing Walker, Driver will do that, and for those who say he's not as athletic, etc., it further occurs to me that he doesn't have to be. He just has to put up Walker-like numbers which he did last year and as this year's offense will be a different scheme anyway, the numbers should come out different. Gardner, Jennings, et al will be replacing Driver who has moved up to #1. I'm sure that one of these guys should be capable of putting up the kind of numbers that Driver and the others had last year.

[mraynrand]

Overall, a pointless article for this time of year. Obviously an article designed only for raising controversy. It certainly was very poor as an analytical piece.


That pretty much sums it up. A ham sandwich would be better than even a 'pro bowl alternate' center trying to keep his intestines from leaking out his gut while blocking DTs. Absurd article, but hey, that's Tom "party line" Oates for you.

[Bretsky]

I'm hoping for an OG and a RB.

I just don't trust Junius Coston. Maybe it's because I don't know anything about him.


Coston was a disappointing selection last year because he was nowhere near ready to contribute.

After the first minicamp it was obvious that he was a good athlete but not nearly strong enough to play NFL ball. Coaches hyped him in the offseason and he supposedly has a good work ethic and is stronger this year.

Blind faith is the best reason to think he can be a good starter right away.
Just think like good ol Tex from the JS days; I'm sure he's saying GB won't miss Wahle or Rivera one bit this year now that more are back to health.

[Bretsky]

GREAT POINTS ON THE WR SITUATION

The reason GB's offense will be better this year are:

1. The depth of the WR's is much better. Driver needs a couple guys that can get open and take the total focus off of him as it was when his opposities were chumps like Robert Ferguson, Antnio Chatman, Taco Wallace..etc.

Gardner and Jennings and Boerghter should provide that. AND if they don't then the offense is in trouble.

2. The health of the RB's have to be better than last year, and our OG play cannot be as pathetic as it was last year If our OG play is as bad we can throw darts at TT again (I STILL THINK IT WAS STUPID NOT TO BRING ON ONE VETERAN OG STARTER), but how can it be much worse ?

[Patler]

Coston was a disappointing selection last year because he was nowhere near ready to contribute.

After the first minicamp it was obvious that he was a good athlete but not nearly strong enough to play NFL ball. Coaches hyped him in the offseason and he supposedly has a good work ethic and is stronger this year.

Blind faith is the best reason to think he can be a good starter right away.
Just think like good ol Tex from the JS days; I'm sure he's saying GB won't miss Wahle or Rivera one bit this year now that more are back to health.

Bretsky, if you ever expected anything from him last year, you weren't paying attention. Here are just a few comments from the day of the draft last year:

"I wouldn't say he's a project," Packers scout Brian Gutekunst said. "He'll be ready within a year. Athletically and strength-wise, he's fine. He can get out and pull and get out on the second level. Self-starter. Good worker." . . . Said offensive line coach Larry Beightol: "Athletic. Explosive. Tough. Smart. Hard-nosed. He's raw and we'll have to see how much he can absorb."

I found him to be very intriguing because of that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think everything turns on the guards. The running backs and receivers will be passable, which is about all that is needed to improve on last season. The improved defense will give the offense better opportunities.

I tend to agree with Oates that their is no reason for optimism that the interior linemen will be an upgrade. Well, except Shamler's point that Flanagan struggled badly in 2005 is certainly true. But Wells did not excel when he replaced Flanagan.
The interior line will likely be somewhat better than last year. But with no special players at skill positions, other than streaks from Favre and Gado, the interior line needs to be GOOD, rather than just NOT-AS-BAD as last year.

I'm comfortable with Wells. Right now he is an average, or slightly below averge player, who is on the rise.

I'm willing to believe that Coston and Collidge will develop into GOOD players. But right away!? I think this roster DESPERATELY needs an experienced guard. Even a slimmed-down Kevin Barry would be reassuring. Right now, I think the Offense is looking at a rebuilding period.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Coston was a disappointing selection last year because he was nowhere near ready to contribute.

I don't agree with this. 5th round picks rarely look ready to play.

5th round picks last year:


137 San Francisco Ronald Fields DT Mississippi State
138 Kansas City Boomer Grigsby MLB Illinois State
139 Cleveland David McMillan OLB Kansas
140 Chicago Airese Currie WR Clemson
141 Tampa Bay Donte Nicholson SS Oklahoma
142 Tennessee Damien Nash RB Missouri
143 Green Bay Junius Coston G North Carolina A&T
144 St. Louis Jerome Collins TE Notre Dame
145 Detroit Dan Orlovsky QB Connecticut
146 Philadelphia Trent Cole DE Cincinnati
147 Kansas City Alphonso Hodge CB Miami, O.
148 Indianapolis Jonathan Welsh DE Wisconsin
149 Carolina Adam Seward OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
150 Tennessee Daniel Loper T Texas Tech
151 Houston Drew Hodgdon C Arizona State
152 New Orleans Adrian McPherson QB Florida State
153 Cincinnati Adam Kieft T Central Michigan
154 Washington Robert McCune LB Louisville
155 Tampa Bay Larry Brackins WR Pearl River JC
156 Buffalo Eric King CB Wake Forest
157 Jacksonville Gerald Sensabaugh SS North Carolina
158 Baltimore Justin Green FB Montana
159 Seattle Jeb Huckeba DE Arkansas
160 Atlanta Michael Boley OLB Southern Mississippi
161 N.Y. Jets Andre Maddox DB North Carolina State
162 Miami Anthony Alabi T Texas Christian
163 Atlanta Frank Omiyale T Tennessee Tech
164 San Diego Wesley Britt T Alabama
165 Indianapolis Rob Hunt C North Dakota State
166 Pittsburgh Rian Wallace ILB Temple
167 Green Bay Michael Hawkins CB Oklahoma
168 Arizona Lance Mitchell MLB Oklahoma
169 Carolina Geoff Hangartner C Texas A&M
170 New England Ryan Claridge OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
171 Carolina Ben Emanuel S UCLA
172 Philadelphia Scott Young G Brigham Young
173 Indianapolis Tyjuan Hagler LB Cincinnati
174 San Francisco Rasheed Marshall WR West Virginia

LB Michael Boley was the player that came close to starting for the full year. He replaced Edgerton Hartwell after he went down in about game 5. The rest looked an awful like Coston.

[Patler]

Flanagan struggled badly in 2005 is certainly true. But Wells did not excel when he replaced Flanagan.


I thought Wells played pretty well(s) when he was at center last year. There were an awful lot of people who thought he should have stayed in at center and Flanagan should have sat. As a guard, I didn't think Wells was much better than Klemm. He was probably somewhat better as a run blocker, but he was not as good as a pass blocker as Klemm. I think he stayed in because the team was desparately trying to improve the running game.

[Rastak]

Flanagan struggled badly in 2005 is certainly true. But Wells did not excel when he replaced Flanagan.


I thought Wells played pretty well(s) when he was at center last year. There were an awful lot of people who thought he should have stayed in at center and Flanagan should have sat. As a guard, I didn't think Wells was much better than Klemm. He was probably somewhat better as a run blocker, but he was not as good as a pass blocker as Klemm. I think he stayed in because the team was desparately trying to improve the running game.

And it seemed to me it did improve as the year went on....

[Bretsky]

Coston was a disappointing selection last year because he was nowhere near ready to contribute.

I don't agree with this. 5th round picks rarely look ready to play.

5th round picks last year:


137 San Francisco Ronald Fields DT Mississippi State
138 Kansas City Boomer Grigsby MLB Illinois State
139 Cleveland David McMillan OLB Kansas
140 Chicago Airese Currie WR Clemson
141 Tampa Bay Donte Nicholson SS Oklahoma
142 Tennessee Damien Nash RB Missouri
143 Green Bay Junius Coston G North Carolina A&T
144 St. Louis Jerome Collins TE Notre Dame
145 Detroit Dan Orlovsky QB Connecticut
146 Philadelphia Trent Cole DE Cincinnati
147 Kansas City Alphonso Hodge CB Miami, O.
148 Indianapolis Jonathan Welsh DE Wisconsin
149 Carolina Adam Seward OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
150 Tennessee Daniel Loper T Texas Tech
151 Houston Drew Hodgdon C Arizona State
152 New Orleans Adrian McPherson QB Florida State
153 Cincinnati Adam Kieft T Central Michigan
154 Washington Robert McCune LB Louisville
155 Tampa Bay Larry Brackins WR Pearl River JC
156 Buffalo Eric King CB Wake Forest
157 Jacksonville Gerald Sensabaugh SS North Carolina
158 Baltimore Justin Green FB Montana
159 Seattle Jeb Huckeba DE Arkansas
160 Atlanta Michael Boley OLB Southern Mississippi
161 N.Y. Jets Andre Maddox DB North Carolina State
162 Miami Anthony Alabi T Texas Christian
163 Atlanta Frank Omiyale T Tennessee Tech
164 San Diego Wesley Britt T Alabama
165 Indianapolis Rob Hunt C North Dakota State
166 Pittsburgh Rian Wallace ILB Temple
167 Green Bay Michael Hawkins CB Oklahoma
168 Arizona Lance Mitchell MLB Oklahoma
169 Carolina Geoff Hangartner C Texas A&M
170 New England Ryan Claridge OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
171 Carolina Ben Emanuel S UCLA
172 Philadelphia Scott Young G Brigham Young
173 Indianapolis Tyjuan Hagler LB Cincinnati
174 San Francisco Rasheed Marshall WR West Virginia

LB Michael Boley was the player that came close to starting for the full year. He replaced Edgerton Hartwell after he went down in about game 5. The rest looked an awful like Coston.


How many of those picks put on a uniform gameday last year ? Special Teams help ? I'd like to see my fifth rounder be more than game day in jeans watching a game. Maybe things will change this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

San Francisco - DT Ronald Fields - 7 tackles
Kansas City - LB Boomer Grigsby - 16 tackles
Cleveland - LB David McMillan - 0 tackles
Chicago - WR Airese Currie - 0 receptions
Tampa Bay - S Donte Nicholson - 5 tackles
Tennessee - RB Damien Nash - 32 yards rushing, 3 receptions
Green Bay - OG Junius Coston - 2 games/0 starts
St. Louis - TE Jerome Collins - 0 receptions
Detroit - QB Dan Orlovsky - 7 of 17 for 63 yards
Philadelphia - DE Trent Cole - 46 tackles, 5 sacks
Kansas City - CB Alphonso Hodge - 0 tackles
Indianapolis - DE Jonathan Welsh - 4 tackles, 0 sacks
Carolina - LB Adam Seward - 5 tackles
Tennessee - OT Daniel Loper - 0 games/0 starts
Houston - OC Drew Hodgdon - 4 games/3 starts
New Orleans - QB Adrian McPherson - 0 pass attempts
Cincinnati - OT Adam Kieft - 0 games/0 starts
Washington - LB Robert McCune - 4 tackles
Tampa Bay - WR Larry Brackins - 0 receptions
Buffalo - CB Eric King - 29 tackles, 0 interceptions
Jacksonville - S Gerald Sensabaugh - 24 tackles, 0 interceptions
Baltimore - FB Justin Green - 4 rushing yards, 7 receptions
Seattle - DE Jeb Huckeba - 0 tackles
Atlanta - LB Michael Boley - 64 tackles
N.Y. Jets - S Andre Maddox - 0 tackles
Miami - OT Anthony Alabi - 0 games/0 starts
Atlanta - OT Frank Omiyale - 0 games/0 starts
San Diego - OT Wesley Britt - 0 games/0 starts
Indianapolis - OC Rob Hunt - 0 games/0 starts
Pittsburgh - LB Rian Wallace - 1 tackle
Green Bay - CB Michael Hawkins - 14 tackles
Arizona - LB Lance Mitchell - 8 tackles
Carolina - OC Geoff Hangartner - 6 games/0 starts
New England - LB Ryan Claridge - 0 tackles
Carolina - S Ben Emanuel - 39 tackles, 1 interception
Philadelphia - OG Scott Young - 0 games/0 starts
Indianapolis - LB Tyjuan Hagler - 0 tackles
San Francisco - WR Rasheed Marshall - 1 reception

Of the 31 other players drafted in the 5th round in 2005, only 3 contributed at all outside of special teams. Boley started about 1/2 the year and did pretty well for Atlanta. Emanuel played in some subpackages on a terrible San Fran team--after being cut by Carolina. Trent Cole was a pass rush specialist for Philadelphia.

Not one other 5th round pick contributed significantly. The 9 other OL drafted in the 5th round contributed a TOTAL of 10 games played and 3 starts.

[The Leaper]

I disagree heartily with the notion that there won't be new faces making an impact on this team. To me, Rod Gardner is still a new face. Sure, he was on the roster at year end last year...but he didn't have the first notion about what was really going on. He is more or less a new addition for 2006 in my book. And comparing him to Walker is ridiculous...was Walker playing last season, the period in time the article is actually referencing?? Gardner is a hell of an upgrade over who the #2 WR was during most of last season.

Donald Lee and Samkon Gado also fall into that category a little. Any guy picked up during the season is going to be playing catch up in regard to understanding the schemes and philosophy carried out on a weekly basis. You can't just label these guys "seasoned vets" in the Packer system who are status quo.

I agree that EVERYTHING hinges on the guards. Favre has proven in the past that he can elevate average talent to Pro Bowl level statistics. That may not quite be the case anymore...but he can still get above average production out of the talent on the Packer roster if the guards pan out.

[Green Bud Packer]

my gut says favre is going to bounce back and have a great year.the t.e. position should be a weapon after years of neglect and i'm looking for the fullbacks to catch more balls this year.favre said the smiles were back at the first mini-camp. after years of having the joy of football sucked from his existence brett will perform better than he has in years.the "o" will be alright and the pack will be in contention for the north title come dec. i'm a fan. i gotta beleive

[Murphy37]

Well the article was not exactly a pleasant read, but it mentioned the concerns that many of us have had all off season. OG and receiver. It is unfair to predict that there will not be an upgrade at those positions, but there is reason for concern. Mainly at OG. How can anyone be comfortable with the fact that Coston and Colledge are in the starting spots? They are fresh off the teet! Look, I hope they turn into super stars, but right now it's a crap shoot. Kinda like when you mix beer and Mexican food, a crap shoot.