Favre

[Sparkey]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......

[Joemailman]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

[Sparkey]

He had the same look on his face as he did during the Bears game. The week prior, versus the seahawks, he looked excited when intro's were being made.

Just an observation. But if I saw that, you know the rest of his teammates noticed that as well. Granted, the whole team did no play well at all.

Still a great season for the Packers.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......

I definitely noticed that he wasn't as focused as he was in the Settle game. I wouldn't even be that mad about his performance if he would just not throw those dumb ass picks with the game on the line. I would rather have seen a punt in overtime and have the defense lose the game instead of losing because Favre just has one of his give up plays.

[Deputy Nutz]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

Bingo. :clap:

[gbgary]

no complaints for the defense from me. they were out there over 40 minutes and were spent. MM could have got Al some help but chose not to. the problem was NO OFFENSE IN THE SECOND HALF. IT WAS HORRIFIC!! poor play calling and execution.

[Freak Out]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......

I definitely noticed that he wasn't as focused as he was in the Settle game. I wouldn't even be that mad about his performance if he would just not throw those dumb ass picks with the game on the line. I would rather have seen a punt in overtime and have the defense lose the game instead of losing because Favre just has one of his give up plays.

It was cold as hell...not many were smiling...and the pick was not a give up play just a bad throw on an out route if I remember....Grant was open after he released and that was a throw #4 should have made.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I have always adored Brett and what he is accomplished. Everyone likes Brett. That's part of the problem.

A pampered Favre rarely is under stress so he does not handle it well when it comes.

95 in Dallas, 97 Superbowl, 01 St Louis, 02 at home, 03 Philidelphia, 04 at home, 07 at home, Brett Favre crumbles under the pressure of the playoffs and needs teammates to make up for his mistakes. With the game on the line you don't want the ball in his hands. Some team members lean on Brett coming through for them instead of them coming through for Brett.

It hurts to to say that.
That said I will take a couple more seasons like this one.

[packers11]

OK Favre had a bad game, but who the hell took the packers here??? AARON RODGERS??? Give me a break... He threw 2 INTS the hole game and everyone blames him...

Tom Brady throws 3 int's but his D bails him out of the game, and he doesn't get bashed... Like last year when he played SD in playoffs, he played miserable and got bailed out by his team...

Simple as this, if they win, you all love him to death, if they lose, you all think he isn't good and simply disappoints us to much...

Sure he didn't have a good game but I am not going to sit and say this loss was because of him, the offesne has a whole sucked... THE WHOLE TEAM SUCKED...

[hurleyfan]

Tom Brady throws 3 int's but his D bails him out of the game, and he doesn't get bashed... Like last year when he played SD in playoffs, he played miserable and got bailed out by his team...

Simple as this, Brady's D bailed him out... The Packer D couldn't get off the field on a consistant basis..

[Patler]

I definitely noticed that he wasn't as focused as he was in the Settle game. I wouldn't even be that mad about his performance if he would just not throw those dumb ass picks with the game on the line. I would rather have seen a punt in overtime and have the defense lose the game instead of losing because Favre just has one of his give up plays.

It was cold as hell...not many were smiling...and the pick was not a give up play just a bad throw on an out route if I remember....Grant was open after he released and that was a throw #4 should have made.

I didn't really have a problem with who he threw to, it was just the throw itself. It was just a bad throw. It could have been completed if thrown more accurately, or if the route had been better, whatever. The receiver and the ball were not on the same course.

Favre had a couple ill-advised/desperation throws earlier, one when he had a lot of time to throw and threw to I believe Robinson or Jennings who was well covered. That luckily fell incomplete. The other was his first interception generously returned to the Packers by McQuarters and graciously accepted by Tauscher!

[Patler]

Man I' messing up big time

[twoseven]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.

[Tarlam!]

We've always known Brett's strengths an weaknesses.

He made a coupla mistakes last night, but on the whole, he did what M3 asked him to do, IMHO.

Therein lies the problem! I think M3 fucked up the gameplan. Don't get me wrong, I love M3. Sometimes my kids fuck up right before my eyes, too. Doesn't mean I wanna trade my kids!

I think M3 has a lot of power in influencing this group of players and this last night, he didn't influence them to be their best.

[packinpatland]

This has probably already been discussed somewhere, but why, when there was 6+ minutes left in the game, why were we throwing the ball long? Even if there'd been a TD, that would have left too much time on the clock.
M3, in my mind, should have stuck to short passes and eating the clock.

[The Shadow]

Spit the bit again.

[Patler]

Ooops! Meant to be a Tauscher new topic!

[Chubbyhubby]

Its NOT official yet but I believe that Brett Favre era in Green Bay is over. This was his last hurrah. This team needs to get better. Even after this year. Al Harris is getting old and needs to be replaced. Its going to be an intresting off-season.

[mmmdk]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

Bingo. :clap:

Double bingo...McCarthy admitted afterwards that he was not committed to the run. Giants were even though they didn't run that well early. McCarthy is ambivalent when it comes to running the ball. As McCarthy would say: "That needs to be fixed".

[mmmdk]

I have always adored Brett and what he is accomplished. Everyone likes Brett. That's part of the problem.

A pampered Favre rarely is under stress so he does not handle it well when it comes.

95 in Dallas, 97 Superbowl, 01 St Louis, 02 at home, 03 Philidelphia, 04 at home, 07 at home, Brett Favre crumbles under the pressure of the playoffs and needs teammates to make up for his mistakes. With the game on the line you don't want the ball in his hands. Some team members lean on Brett coming through for them instead of them coming through for Brett.

It hurts to to say that.
That said I will take a couple more seasons like this one.

Don't bash this post above; there's truth in it. Favre is amazing.

[BallHawk]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

Bingo. :clap:

Double bingo...McCarthy admitted afterwards that he was not committed to the run. Giants were even though they didn't run that well early. McCarthy is ambivalent when it comes to running the ball. As McCarthy would say: "That needs to be fixed".

As long as McCarthy learns from his mistake and never does this again I can accept this loss as a learning process. However, if this become a re-occurring issue it shows a lack of discipline and decision making.

I'm confident that MM will realize what he did and say "Well, that's the last time that's going to happen."

He's a young coach. He's gotta have at least one "WTF" game in the playoffs.

[mmmdk]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

Bingo. :clap:

Double bingo...McCarthy admitted afterwards that he was not committed to the run. Giants were even though they didn't run that well early. McCarthy is ambivalent when it comes to running the ball. As McCarthy would say: "That needs to be fixed".

As long as McCarthy learns from his mistake and never does this again I can accept this loss as a learning process. However, if this become a re-occurring issue it shows a lack of discipline and decision making.

I'm confident that MM will realize what he did and say "Well, that's the last time that's going to happen."

He's a young coach. He's gotta have at least one "WTF" game in the playoffs.
He said that too. I'll stay tuned in. :D If he actually learns from this then we've got great things to look forwards to.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I didn't really have a problem with who he threw to, it was just the throw itself. It was just a bad throw. It could have been completed if thrown more accurately, or if the route had been better, whatever. The receiver and the ball were not on the same course.

Favre had a couple ill-advised/desperation throws earlier, one when he had a lot of time to throw and threw to I believe Robinson or Jennings who was well covered. That luckily fell incomplete. The other was his first interception generously returned to the Packers by McQuarters and graciously accepted by Tauscher!

Quite honestly, I didn't have a problem with the way Favre played until that last throw. Tough conditions, and he played pretty well. I think you are talking about a throw to Jennings. I don't think that's a bad decision. Take a shot deep. Jennings had one guy to beat. The week before he had a similar pass, adjusted by coming inside for the ball, and he scored a TD. Jennings just didn't make a similar play on the ball. The pass to Robinson I blame on Robinson. Has anybody played QB at any level (high school, college, rec ball)? Favre was scrambling around like a madman. He looks up the field, he has a split second to figure out who to throw to, and there's Robinson waving his hands. Don't wave your stinkin' hands if you aren't wide open. Ruvell did it earlier in the year, but the ball bounced off two defenders and he got a TD. The last throw wasn't poor judgement. He just didn't make a good throw. If he gets it further outside, it's probably a long completion that puts us in good shape for a FG. At that point, our offense was doing nothing, so I'm sure he was pressing. Bad time to have a bad throw though. Blame can be spread around equally. McCarthy's playcalling stunk. The 1 yd passes to Robinson were pathetic. Abandoning the run after getting 19 yards on a couple of carries in the third quarter was bad. Al Harris got torched. Bush should have fallen on the ball. Collins made a dumb late hit. The run blocking was poor. The DL didn't quite get enough pressure. Just a bad game overall.

[Patler]

Quite honestly, I didn't have a problem with the way Favre played until that last throw. Tough conditions, and he played pretty well. I think you are talking about a throw to Jennings. I don't think that's a bad decision. Take a shot deep. Jennings had one guy to beat. The week before he had a similar pass, adjusted by coming inside for the ball, and he scored a TD. Jennings just didn't make a similar play on the ball. The pass to Robinson I blame on Robinson. Has anybody played QB at any level (high school, college, rec ball)? Favre was scrambling around like a madman. He looks up the field, he has a split second to figure out who to throw to, and there's Robinson waving his hands. Don't wave your stinkin' hands if you aren't wide open. Ruvell did it earlier in the year, but the ball bounced off two defenders and he got a TD. The last throw wasn't poor judgement. He just didn't make a good throw. If he gets it further outside, it's probably a long completion that puts us in good shape for a FG. At that point, our offense was doing nothing, so I'm sure he was pressing. Bad time to have a bad throw though. Blame can be spread around equally. McCarthy's playcalling stunk. The 1 yd passes to Robinson were pathetic. Abandoning the run after getting 19 yards on a couple of carries in the third quarter was bad. Al Harris got torched. Bush should have fallen on the ball. Collins made a dumb late hit. The run blocking was poor. The DL didn't quite get enough pressure. Just a bad game overall.

I don't disagree with any of that, really. On the other hand, it is seldom good to throw into the middle of the field deep when a play has broken down and extended for a long time. Favre did it twice, once intercepted, and once close to it. I agree Robinson should not have been waving as he did.

The last interception was poor execution, not a poor decision at all. It should have been a completion, and honestly I have no clue if it was more a bad throw, an imprecise route, or a combination of both.

I kept looking for the variations of the CONTROLLED passing game that worked all year. Instead I saw mostly screens that have not worked all season, for the most part.

When Grant broke the 13 yard run, followed by 7 yars two carries later, I though, OK here we go. But running remained an afterthought.

[Bretsky]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.


Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

[motife]

I love Favre, but I wouldn't mind if the Packers moved on.

I like the way Aaron Rodgers works within the system, his confidence level, and how he moves on his feet. It might be time, the 4th year already, to see what they have in him. But damn.. Rodgers is injured all the time.

Green Bay is going to have a tough time repeating last year's record with next year's schedule regardless who is QB.

[packinpatland]

Rodgers is a team guy. Every game where I've been able to see the team come onto the field, there's Aaron with his back to the field, cheering the guys coming in.
He's good, he's got the right attitude, he's got talent (in the words of Troy Aikman, he's athletic)........maybe it's time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.

I don't think he played well. He didn't play horrible either. He was about as good as everybody else. Just not good enough. The conditions were tough for a QB. For most of the game, he managed them well. But he had a bad throw in OT, and that's what people will remember--especially the Favre hater. The Giants made Tony Romo look like a complete stiff in ideal conditions. They have a pretty good defense.

[pbmax]

I with Bretsky here. Favre was below average.

And while I think blaming play calling is one step worse that blaming the refs, I think Bretsky has another good point.

On many plays, with the RB and the TE (usually Bubba waived into motion to the backfield) stayed in to block. More than half the time there was no blitz.

My question to McCarthy is this, why bring in Bubba to the 3 wide package? He obviously was concerned about the Giants pass rush. And maybe Dallas taught him the wrong lesson. He was still planning on airing it out, but he wanted an extra blocker. It was clear before halftime that wasn't working.

But Favre also had a role here. If he has to waive Bubba/Lee into motion to the backfield, then he is reacting to a protection read. And more than half the time, that read was false.

All those throws to receivers who were bracketed or short throws to backs short of the first make sense if two possible receivers are being held up in the backfield, waiting for a blitz. This is on both of them. A short throwing game in four to five wide would make better sense. Esp. if the Giants react to no TE or no RB by bringing pressure. That max protect, while we have certainly used it this year, made it look like we were running last year's offense.

And if Favre reads the blitz correctly, he has a TE in the pattern to threaten the middle.



So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.


Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

[pbmax]

I like the fact that McCarthy tries to attack a defense. I wish he had attacked more with multiple WRs than TE/RBs and shorter rather than deeper routes.

[Freak Out]

After all that had gone wrong we still had a chance to win it in OT if they play smart...and old #4 makes what is arguably his worst throw of the night. I have looked at it s few times and the DB has read Drivers route perfectly..he's just standing there waiting for it. :bang:

I know it does not matter now but there is Grant coming out of the backfield...just a pitch and catch away form 5-10 yard gain.

[motife]

Favre seem liked he just said "screw this" in that last Bears game. He doesn't like to play in the cold. Thompson to some extent is building a dome team. I think they'd be much better off building a power running attack with humongous offensive lines. Or hire June Jones as OC and move the team to Georgia.

[packinpatland]

Favre seem liked he just said "screw this" in that last Bears game. He doesn't like to play in the cold. Thompson to some extent is building a dome team. I think they'd be much better off building a power running attack with humongous offensive lines. Or hire June Jones as OC and move the team to Georgia.


??????? :?:

[motife]

Or hire June Jones as OC and move the team to Georgia.


??????? :?:

Mouse Davis. Run and Shoot offense. 1990's. Works good in domes and Arena Football. Not in Lambeau at 2 below.

[Packerarcher]

First of all let me say hi I don't post much I am more of a lurker. But after hearing all of this get rid off Bret talk I can't take it anymore. I am not a football expert by any means,but due to medical problems I am a stay at home dad. This means I watch a TON of football and football related shows. All I can say guys and girls is there ain't to many better or even equal to old number 4 even at his age. You can't discount his reliablity,over half of gettin the job done is being there week in and out to gwt the job done. Another thing is everyone says he can't play in the cold. People even in Greenbay this weather is the exception not the rule. I spend a lot of time outdoors year round and even with todays clothing functioning in weather like that is tough. Also why would you build a team for weather like this,it is so infrequent yes even in Wi that it would be a waste. I feel alot of blame for this game should go on the coaching staff. The packers were not simply out played they were very out coached. Inow several of you agree with this so how come no one has been calling for MCcarthy's head like you have Favre's. They both were partially responsible for the loss. But they also both were the reason we were there to lose to begin with.

[Bretsky]

Walking out of the stadium after the loss I witnessed some moron screaming how worthless Favre was and how he should retire; my gut told me to let him have it but my better judgment told me it would not be worth my breath.

MM is a good coach who coached a terrible game Sunday. He had a great season. Holmgren was outcoached at times; it happens to everyone.

It just sucks that this had to end our season.

[MJZiggy]

Nice post Packerarcher. Maybe they're not calling for M3's head because they see this more like a rookie mistake he's gotta learn from. He doesn't learn, they'll be calling for his head next time. I think Brett should hang around and take one more shot at it. We know Brett can get us here. We've gotten a hint that Rodgers might be good and he might. We know Brett is good and if HE feels he isn't then he's said he'd rather retire than play too long. I believe him.

[Packers4Ever]

If the Packers had had a running game, and if Al Harris had been able to cover Plaxico Burress, I don't think anyone would be worried about what Favre's face looked like before the game.

Bingo. :clap:

Double bingo...McCarthy admitted afterwards that he was not committed to the run. Giants were even though they didn't run that well early. McCarthy is ambivalent when it comes to running the ball. As McCarthy would say: "That needs to be fixed".

There! That's what I've been waiting to see, Coach admitting not choosing to use the run when it's worked so well week after week for how long now? Will someone please explain WHY he gave up using our #1 RB, when he's been piling up yardage for weeks? And - while we're on it - has the blitz been discarded and why? Seems it's missing frequently, no wonder Brett barely had time to scan the field last night - unlike Eli Manning who had all the time in the world to make his choice.
This whole topic was under discussion today on ESPN, I believe on the 'Mike and Mike Show.'
SO - why weren't adjustments made during half-time, isn't that the logical time to make changes?

I guess I'd figured we'd be seeing something along the lines of the Seattle game again, minus the snow.

[b bulldog]

Nobody was talking at all where we were exiting the stadium. Favre had a off day as did Brady on Sunday. In Brett's case, he had some bad passes into triple coverage but he played as well as the rest of the team. IMO, it was a total team loss. I don't think we are a tough team, that is disappointing.

[packinpatland]

First of all let me say hi I don't post much I am more of a lurker. But after hearing all of this get rid off Bret talk I can't take it anymore. I am not a football expert by any means,but due to medical problems I am a stay at home dad. This means I watch a TON of football and football related shows. All I can say guys and girls is there ain't to many better or even equal to old number 4 even at his age. You can't discount his reliablity,over half of gettin the job done is being there week in and out to gwt the job done. Another thing is everyone says he can't play in the cold. People even in Greenbay this weather is the exception not the rule. I spend a lot of time outdoors year round and even with todays clothing functioning in weather like that is tough. Also why would you build a team for weather like this,it is so infrequent yes even in Wi that it would be a waste. I feel alot of blame for this game should go on the coaching staff. The packers were not simply out played they were very out coached. Inow several of you agree with this so how come no one has been calling for MCcarthy's head like you have Favre's. They both were partially responsible for the loss. But they also both were the reason we were there to lose to begin with.

Welcome..........I like what you say.

[b bulldog]

A team debacle

[Deputy Nutz]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.


Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

I still disagree with the offensive line being horrid. There was only one maybe two plays where Grant was actually held to a loss on the play. The run blocking wasn't great, but the fact that the coaching staff only ran the ball 13 times and Grant's foul play I tend to say the offensive line really didn't get a legit opportunity to run the football successfully.

[b bulldog]

Oline pass protected pretty well, the run blocking on the other hand was not up to task.

[Packerarcher]

Ziggy,sorry I just don't think Rodgers will be any good,well maybe he will be ok talent wise but I think he is a puss. But it could be that I am a little spoiled by having Iron Man Favre at the helm for so long.

[b bulldog]

Nobody can say for sure in regards to anything when it comes to Rodgers.

[MJZiggy]

Ziggy,sorry I just don't think Rodgers will be any good,well maybe he will be ok talent wise but I think he is a puss. But it could be that I am a little spoiled by having Iron Man Favre at the helm for so long.

While I agree with what you say, Ted Thompson actually put it pretty well when he said that there WILL come a day when Brett Favre is no longer playing football for the Green Bay Packers. One day he will retire, and we don't intend to close up shop when he does...(or something very similar to that). He has a point. Much as MOST of us want him to play, he won't be here that much longer if he stays...(in other words, we're a little spoiled)

[Bretsky]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.


Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

I still disagree with the offensive line being horrid. There was only one maybe two plays where Grant was actually held to a loss on the play. The run blocking wasn't great, but the fact that the coaching staff only ran the ball 13 times and Grant's foul play I tend to say the offensive line really didn't get a legit opportunity to run the football successfully.

We just have to agree to disagree here; I thought Grant ran hard and as well as he could. Ran hard and fell forward like he always does. He had a thirteen yard gain on one play. Besides that he had 12 carries for 16 yards. Colledge was dominated. Wells and Spitz were often in the backfield. Tauscher played well against Strahan. Clifton seemed OK.

I would agree that MM did not give the OL enough of a chance.

On the other hand, MM may have just realized the OL was not good enough to establish a running game.

[twoseven]

First of all let me say hi I don't post much I am more of a lurker. But after hearing all of this get rid off Bret talk I can't take it anymore. I am not a football expert by any means,but due to medical problems I am a stay at home dad. This means I watch a TON of football and football related shows. All I can say guys and girls is there ain't to many better or even equal to old number 4 even at his age. You can't discount his reliablity,over half of gettin the job done is being there week in and out to gwt the job done. Another thing is everyone says he can't play in the cold. People even in Greenbay this weather is the exception not the rule. I spend a lot of time outdoors year round and even with todays clothing functioning in weather like that is tough. Also why would you build a team for weather like this,it is so infrequent yes even in Wi that it would be a waste. I feel alot of blame for this game should go on the coaching staff. The packers were not simply out played they were very out coached. Inow several of you agree with this so how come no one has been calling for MCcarthy's head like you have Favre's. They both were partially responsible for the loss. But they also both were the reason we were there to lose to begin with.
I'm not exactly sure where you are reading 'all this get rid of Brett talk..' I certainly don't see it prevailing in this string, I see the opposite. I certainly hope that being critical of Brett's play Sunday night is not a punishable offense at this point, he is human.

As for building a cold weather team being a waste...Let's just pretend that Brett (or any Packer for that matter) is no longer capable of performing in temps that fall below 15-20 degrees, I am in no way saying he has. For the sake of hypothetical discussion, do you actually push forward and deal with this knowing full well that it gets damn cold at Lambeau every late December and January? Things will be tip top September through November and early December. But, if the final hurdle to a SB may just include a battle with the temperature gauge and your leader (and whoever else), how do you handle things at that point? If cold weather is what you will face one or two steps before a SB, how wasteful is it to factor this into your team building strategy? Temps that fall between 10 degrees and subzero temps are NOT abnormal in WI in January. Again, hypothetical discussion, not accusation, right here..anyone care to comment?

[cpk1994]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.


Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

I still disagree with the offensive line being horrid. There was only one maybe two plays where Grant was actually held to a loss on the play. The run blocking wasn't great, but the fact that the coaching staff only ran the ball 13 times and Grant's foul play I tend to say the offensive line really didn't get a legit opportunity to run the football successfully.

We just have to agree to disagree here; I thought Grant ran hard and as well as he could. Ran hard and fell forward like he always does. He had a thirteen yard gain on one play. Besides that he had 12 carries for 16 yards. Colledge was dominated. Wells and Spitz were often in the backfield. Tauscher played well against Strahan. Clifton seemed OK.

I would agree that MM did not give the OL enough of a chance.

On the other hand, MM may have just realized the OL was not good enough to establish a running game.If M3 came to that realization and decided not to run the ball becuase of it, he is hitting Mike Sherman levels of stupidity. No matter how much you struggle, you must keep doing it unless you are way behind, which they weren't.

[packinpatland]

I really would be OK with Brett retiring. He's done it all. With the team as young as it is, perhaps now is a good time to bring in a younger QB.....they can 'grow old together'.

[denverYooper]

And if Favre reads the blitz correctly, he has a TE in the pattern to threaten the middle.


There were a few nice plays to Donald Lee in the middle. It's too bad they didn't send him out more.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Favre played good in the first half, but looked lost and confused in the second. Sometimes his picks look so bad you wonder if he threw it on purpose.

MM also had a bad game plan. On the first two plays of the game, I was like OK we are about to kill this team, but after that his play calling got very uncreative and dumb. Also as many have said already, why did he max protect in the game? Why did we revert back to 2006? We did not go to the championship game by max protecting and I didn't understand why he started in that game. I would rather make the another team beat me then play scared and basically lose the game.

[fan4life]

I watched the tape again yesterday (with the sound turned off.) In the calm of knowing the outcome, I have to say: give the NYG credit, please. It was disappointing to get so far and not take the final step... but stop looking to place blame for the failure to win. Both teams fought hard down to the wire and left everything on the field.

NY has a big, strong front 7 that handled our O-line, especially Colledge. Spag's defense is designed to disguise pressure, and mess with protection schemes, which it did to perfection. Much like the Eagles' defense, the way to attack that defense is to run the ball... and throw deep out of play-action to WRs who can beat their coverage. Favre was rarely comfortable in the pocket and even when he had time to throw, NYs scrappy secondary was in our WRs faces disrupting and dictating their routes. The dbs were sitting on the short slants and outs.... you saw what happened in OT when Brett tried to throw a short out to Donald. That could have happened a lot more. Unfortunately, I think the weather affected both Brett and the WRs ability to connect downfield, too (wobbly, poor throws and dropped passes). That, and the relentless pressure to hurry throws contributed to our normally smooth offense looking terribly out of sync.

If Green Bay is going to take their game to the next level (you have to expect that Chicago, Philly and DAL are going to continue to be strong) then TT needs to bring in bigger, stronger guards. The only time GB (and other WCOs) have been successful against Jimmy Johnson's Eagles defensive schemes (and now Spagnuola's) is when Green could pound the ball and Brett could take selective shots downfield out of play-action. Yesterday, GB couldn't run the ball with any authority and that was ultimatley their undoing.

On the other side, GBs defense couldn't get off the field. NY sustained long drives that -quite litterally- froze our offense on the sidelines. They ran the ball with authority, and Manning had time to find his big, physical receivers often enough to be effective.

The NYG earned their win yesterday. Sure, GB had a chance at the end, but when the game goes down to the wire, its a crap-shoot at best. GB was fortunate that the game went to OT. Having been stopped on the final couple of drives in regulation, it was not a given that Favre & Co could march down the field and get into scoring position. Favre and DD tried to make a play, but -once again- NY made a better one.

There are things GB can do to get better, but there just wasn't much more they could do in that game. Why is that so hard for some fans to get? Why do they attack and blame players who are willing to put everything on the line, risking failure, but come up a little short?

It was a great year and I've made my peace with how it ended. GB got beat Sunday by a strong, physical, scrappy team that earned everything they got.
Meanwhile, our veterans Favre, DD, Donald Lee, KRob, Tauscher and Cliffy showed that, while not invincible, they can play with the best of them. Jennings, Martin, and Jones showed real talent, but also that they need to play with more grit (like Plaxico Buress, T.O., Wes Welker and DD). Grant has potential, but needs an O-line and schemes that can open holes against big DTs. GBs defense improved over last year, but it is not championship level, yet. Better play from the defensive backfield and more pressure from the front 7 is needed; whether that comes from personnel or schemes is for the coaches to ponder (hint: I think it is schemes.)

As Larry McCarren often says, "Sometimes, you don't do anything wrong, you just get beat. The other guys get paid to play, too, you know."

[Bossman641]

Did I watch the same game some of you did? I keep reading about the Giants' relentless pass rush? WHAT? Favre probably only got hit a few times the whole game. On most plays he had a beautiful pocket to step into. I thought the pass-blocking was quite good. Now if you want to say that was only due to us keeping extra blockers in that is another thing.

It was a bad game all around. Bad run-blocking, gave up on the run way too soon, bad throws from Favre, some drops by the WR's. UGLY.

[fan4life]

Did I watch the same game some of you did? I keep reading about the Giants' relentless pass rush? WHAT? Favre probably only got hit a few times the whole game. On most plays he had a beautiful pocket to step into. I thought the pass-blocking was quite good. Now if you want to say that was only due to us keeping extra blockers in that is another thing.

It was a bad game all around. Bad run-blocking, gave up on the run way too soon, bad throws from Favre, some drops by the WR's. UGLY. Favre had time to throw a number of times because they kept in the TE's and RBs (max-protect.) He had a good pocket, but his only throws were downfield to WRs who were covered. When he didn't keep in blockers, they were in his face. He dumped off a couple to Morency, who was tackled well short of 1st down marker (he slipped and fell on one which surely would have gone for a 1st down.) On another play, Favre lobbed it over the linemens' head for Grant - who wasn't ready for the ball because he was still engaged by a db; the play went for naught, but it was better than taking a sack for a loss.

And let's not even talk about the screen passes that weren't blocked upfield.

You're right.... UGLY, the combination of good coverage and poor execution of a flawed game plan. My point is, Favre wasn't superhuman, but he wasn't the only reason the team lost, either.

[Fosco33]

Nobody can say for sure in regards to anything when it comes to Rodgers.

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

Ditch him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Part of me is ok if Brett retires now - never thought I'd come to that point. He just didn't look like he was having any fun on Sunday and the cold was clearly getting to him...

[woodbuck27]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......

I definitely noticed that he wasn't as focused as he was in the Settle game. I wouldn't even be that mad about his performance if he would just not throw those dumb ass picks with the game on the line. I would rather have seen a punt in overtime and have the defense lose the game instead of losing because Favre just has one of his give up plays.

It was cold as hell...not many were smiling...and the pick was not a give up play just a bad throw on an out route if I remember....Grant was open after he released and that was a throw #4 should have made.

It was a really low percentage play call given the conditions. Way too much margin for error. Think back on the perspective bet. the defender and Driver.

It was a pick ALL DAY. STUPID CALL.

A lamb to slaughter.

[Merlin]

This game was reminiscent of the first Bears game this season. We had plays that worked in the first half effectively but abandoned them in the second half. When we ran play action out of a normal running formation, the Giants defense didn't cover well and we were successful moving the ball that way. Only when we went to 4-5 WR's a lot in the second half did we not move the ball very well. We needed to come out with the same strategy in the second half but did not. The play action should not have worked at all in this game because we couldn't run the ball. However, it did work when we ran it. The Giants bit every time. We knew they would not pressure Favre and we knew they were going to stack the run. For whatever reason, it worked and we stopped doing it.

Al Harris did not have a bad game. Not by any stretch. Burris had an awesome game, the best game I have seen a WR have this season in fact. Harris had coverage 99% of the time but Burris would make the catch, usually some kind of outstanding catch at that. Burris didn't have a TD and although he racked up some yards, it wasn't the dagger people are making it out to be.

The officiating was not all that great and they let the Giants WR get away with everything accept once. Our WR's were being held, interfered with and hardly any calls our way. That part was a poor officiating. Not to mention Eli's acting job on the personal foul. Favre got the wood laid to him when his hands were at his side and there was no call. Again, double standard.

The main reason we lost was the second half play calling. Our defense did a good job for being out there as long as they were. Even after Favre's last INT, they only gave up a few yards to force a field goal attempt. They did their jobs pretty well considering the amount of time on the field. Favre did not lose this game, he is not too old, he is not a choke artist, and he doesn't need to retire because he still has the skills. Harris is aging but by no means a bad player and his skills don't appear to be declining.

Everyone figured after the huge Seahawk win that we could keep with the status quo and win the game. McCarthy said as much, as did the players. They did not implement very many new plays at all if any. Their strategy was the same against an opponent with a better defense then Seattle. It was the wrong strategy and one I am certain McCarthy will never make again. He doesn't make the same mistake twice and that's why I love the guy.

I expect that Favre will be back and next season will be a great one. McCarthy won and lost his first playoff games this season and that isn't too bad for a no-name coach who came from the worst offense in the NFL.

Here's to hoping the Patriots lose and go 18-1, that Favre returns next season, that McCarthy's coaching will only get better, and Favre retires after a 19-0 2008 season after his final record to break.

[The Leaper]

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

He played well against a decent Dallas defense in a hostile environment after little practice time with the #1 offense, working in a system TAILORED to suit Brett Favre, not whoever the flavor-of-the-month backup is.

I'd hardly say that I have zero confidence in Rodgers. I'm also not going to christen him the next starting QB for the Packers. At this point, he is a capable backup that comes at a good price with some upside. He's also still one of the youngest QBs in the league who seems to be soaking in a lot of valuable experience from watching Favre week in and week out.

How are you going to do better Fosco? What good QB is going to come to Green Bay and sit on his ass behind Favre? Favre, if he returns, is the #1 QB. We can't tell someone they will be given a chance to be the starter. That eliminates just about any of the top 45 QBs in the league who feel they have a shot at being a starter...even if it with a poor team.

Rodgers is the best we can do at this point...a young kid with reasonable upside who comes at a reasonable price.

[Fosco33]

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

He played well against a decent Dallas defense in a hostile environment after little practice time with the #1 offense, working in a system TAILORED to suit Brett Favre, not whoever the flavor-of-the-month backup is.

I'd hardly say that I have zero confidence in Rodgers. I'm also not going to christen him the next starting QB for the Packers. At this point, he is a capable backup that comes at a good price with some upside. He's also still one of the youngest QBs in the league who seems to be soaking in a lot of valuable experience from watching Favre week in and week out.

How are you going to do better Fosco? What good QB is going to come to Green Bay and sit on his ass behind Favre? Favre, if he returns, is the #1 QB. We can't tell someone they will be given a chance to be the starter. That eliminates just about any of the top 45 QBs in the league who feel they have a shot at being a starter...even if it with a poor team.

Rodgers is the best we can do at this point...a young kid with reasonable upside who comes at a reasonable price.

Should we change the offensive scheme to fit the QBs style - to some degree yes - but you have to have your QB adapt to the system of design in case of injury.

I just don't see any durability in Rodgers. He did display and give me a little confidence with his ability but he's had 2 near season ending injuries in the last 2 years (this last one he could've played in the very last game or the playoffs). To me - he's like Blackmon - a guy with potential that can't stay off the training table....

Would I give him a shot to start if Favre retires - absolutely! If I thought I could get a QB with more upside via FA or drafting would I ditch him now (while the value is still there) - yes.

Would I expect him to finish the season (or make it through a month of hits) - no. Therefore, I'm looking for a capable journeyman backup and drafting a relatively high (1st-3rd round) QB. Unlike this year, when we didn't staff the emergency QB as one of 52 (until after Dallas), I'd have 3 QBs (and a few on my mind to bring in later).

[Deputy Nutz]

Al Harris did not have a bad game. Not by any stretch. Burris had an awesome game, the best game I have seen a WR have this season in fact. Harris had coverage 99% of the time but Burris would make the catch, usually some kind of outstanding catch at that. Burris didn't have a TD and although he racked up some yards, it wasn't the dagger people are making it out to be.

You say some funny thing here on this forum but this might be the funniest. Al Harris was torched over and over again, he was spun around, turned around, and then just beaten like a work mule in the first half, things did actually get better in the second half because they switched coverage, which left holes other places.

Harris got beat on good throws and by a big physical receiver that simply beat Harris at his one game. Harris can't beat guys like Owens, and Burress, big body receivers give him fits because he can't beat them on the line, and he doesn't have the greatest of wheels so after five yards Harris can't catch up.

Harris had a bad game, is he washed up? No but I wouldn't count on him or Woodson past 2008.

[Joemailman]

Harris has acknowledged he lost the battle with Burriss. He knows he had a bad game.

[cheesner]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......
This was my comment as soon as I saw this. I told my girlfriend that the Packers were going to have a very bad day.

Although it was a miserable day, the Giants were playing in the same weather. Although there were several Packers who played poorly, Brett is a leader of the team and should be doing everything he can to rally the troops. Standing there with a sour puss, isn't firing anyone up or instilling any confidence.

Making Favre look worse, Eli Manning had a fantastic day. He made great passes all day.

Favre had a great year, and I hope he comes back. I just know that he is a poor extreme cold weather QB. Hopefully, if we make the playoffs next year, we have some warm weather, or Brett steps aside when the temp drops below 20.

[denverYooper]

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......
This was my comment as soon as I saw this. I told my girlfriend that the Packers were going to have a very bad day.

Although it was a miserable day, the Giants were playing in the same weather. Although there were several Packers who played poorly, Brett is a leader of the team and should be doing everything he can to rally the troops. Standing there with a sour puss, isn't firing anyone up or instilling any confidence.

Making Favre look worse, Eli Manning had a fantastic day. He made great passes all day.

Favre had a great year, and I hope he comes back. I just know that he is a poor extreme cold weather QB. Hopefully, if we make the playoffs next year, we have some warm weather, or Brett steps aside when the temp drops below 20.

Bill Simmons was a bit hard on Favre, but had an interesting take:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080122


On paper, it seems absolutely incredible that Eli totally outplayed Favre in Lambeau in the third coldest playoff game ever. I never would have predicted this in a million years, especially given Eli's past performance in cold weather. Then I thought about it afterward and realized something: Favre is 38, Eli is 27 and the weather was minus-4. Who's more likely to be affected by bone-chilling temperatures -- a young QB with little wear and tear on his body, or an old QB who has started 270 consecutive games, battled an addiction to painkillers and probably takes 15 minutes to get out of bed every morning? Wouldn't it be the old guy?

Think of it this way: A family gets together for the holidays in Buffalo. There are three brothers in the family (ages 27, 35 and 38), two sisters, a mom, a dad and a grandfather. One morning, Buffalo gets crushed by a blizzard and somebody has to shovel the driveway in minus-4 degree weather for two hours. Which family member gets bundled up and goes out there? The youngest brother. Why? BECAUSE HE'S 27!!!!!!!!! He's the youngest, healthiest one! Is there any chance the 38-year-old guy goes out there? No! Why? BECAUSE HE'S 38!!!! Why didn't I think of this before the game? I hate myself.

</sigh>

[packinpatland]

I love the media types who are screaming..."This is what I said back in week whatever...."...............Favre sure kept them quiet all season didn't he? :wink:

[The Leaper]

Harris has acknowledged he lost the battle with Burriss. He knows he had a bad game.

God, I sure hope so. If he thinks he did fine, then he's certifiably insane.

[fan4life]

Early in the year, the analysts said that GB would have to develop a running game to be a real contender. Ryan Grant emerged and seemed to take some pressure off our 38-yr old QB to carry the load.

It turned out that our run game worked when - and because - teams respected our pass-first offense. When we ran into defenses with strong front 7s (linemen and LBs) that could dominate our O-line without safety help, our run game was stopped... and it fell back on our QB to wing home a win. He couldn't do it in 40 mph winds, and had a tough time in sub-zero weather, throwing to young WRs too cold and stiff to adjust their routes, out-jump and out-muscle the double coverage.

Surely age had something to do with it. But age wasn't Hasselbeck's problem. The fact is, teams that are, or can be rendered one dimensional, because they can't run - because they can't control the LOS - will always be vulnerable in less than ideal weather conditions.

The media experts were right all along.

[swede]

Early in the year, the analysts said that GB would have to develop a running game to be a real contender. Ryan Grant emerged and seemed to take some pressure off our 38-yr old QB to carry the load.

It turned out that our run game worked when - and because - teams respected our pass-first offense. When we ran into defenses with strong front 7s (linemen and LBs) that could dominate our O-line without safety help, our run game was stopped... and it fell back on our QB to wing home a win. He couldn't do it in 40 mph winds, and had a tough time in sub-zero weather, throwing to young WRs too cold and stiff to adjust their routes, out-jump and out-muscle the double coverage.

Surely age had something to do with it. But age wasn't Hasselbeck's problem. The fact is, teams that are, or can be rendered one dimensional, because they can't run - because they can't control the LOS - will always be vulnerable in less than ideal weather conditions.

The media experts were right all along.

I think this may be the most succinct expression of my thoughts about Favre, our season, and the two bitter losses to the Bears and the Giants.

And I am becoming a believer in McCarthy's ability to make this team even better by dealing with the running game and adjusting game plans to teams that shift against our running game.



p.s. I still think we would have beat Dallas in Dallas.

[woodbuck27]

We've always known Brett's strengths an weaknesses.

He made a coupla mistakes last night, but on the whole, he did what M3 asked him to do, IMHO.

Therein lies the problem! I think M3 fucked up the gameplan. Don't get me wrong, I love M3. Sometimes my kids fuck up right before my eyes, too. Doesn't mean I wanna trade my kids!

I think M3 has a lot of power in influencing this group of players and this last night, he didn't influence them to be their best.

Yup. He's new at the game as a HC and positioned Sunday in a very criticle game. A lot at stake so early as a HC. All eyes on him ie PRESSURE

[woodbuck27]

Walking out of the stadium after the loss I witnessed some moron screaming how worthless Favre was and how he should retire; my gut told me to let him have it but my better judgment told me it would not be worth my breath.

MM is a good coach who coached a terrible game Sunday. He had a great season. Holmgren was outcoached at times; it happens to everyone.

It just sucks that this had to end our season.

That's cool B.

That DAM weak inside toss on a lousy play call looked way too weak.

Immediately after that pick Brett Favre went to the play book and wanted to check something. I would be surprized if that move was to shread blame fr. him or a media ploy. He seems too honest to me. He has a traight I admire most. INTEGRITY.

Now I might be wrong.

We were 2nd and about 7 yards; so why that particular low percentage to make - high percentage for a pick toss fly straight to the man covering Driver? Favre threw the ball way too far inside DD's route.

Favre didn't see the defender?

Did Favre just make a lousy inside the route throw?

Did DD run the exact correct route as the play called for (inside hash marks to outside) or was he required to hold up in front of the CB or possibly come back to the ball (QB)?

Favre had ample pass coverage and there was no rush for points as the plan should have been to just get a first down and build momentum to set up the FG and a win later on in the series.

NOT just toss it away on a lousy play.

What happened?

[Bretsky]

It was a bad throw Woody; no question about it. Driver ran the correct Route.

Favre didn't choke; he just made a poor throw. He admitted that as well. You have to throw that ball to the outside where only Driver can catch it

[Fosco33]

http://www.hostpic.biz/uploads/bdac20e7b8.jpg (http://www.hostpic.biz)

Another depressing view from behind the line of scrimmage on the play in question....

Throw the left sideline, maybe Jennings gets a touchdown.
Catch Donald Lee crossing the middle… good shot at a first down.
Check down to Ryan Grant five yards past the line of scrimmage, who knows how far he goes.
The yellow circle is the football in flight :(

[The Leaper]

Where is the 11th NYG defender (and 11th Packer) outside that picture Fosco? I'm guessing to the left somewhere.

[packers11]

Where is the 11th NYG defender (and 11th Packer) outside that picture Fosco? I'm guessing to the left somewhere.

I hope to god that he can't just be seen in the picture... If they had 10 out there, its going to make this play even worse...

[Partial]

The Big Lamborghini isn't in the photo. My guess is he and Osi are battling to the left of the camera.

[The Leaper]

NOT just toss it away on a lousy play.

What happened?

Bad throw...and a good defensive play. The CB was playing the out route the entire time...he let Driver get a little separation, but he was watching Favre and waiting for the out route. As soon as he saw Favre gear up to throw, the CB broke on the route.

A good throw there probably is still an incompletion at best. In those weather conditions, I don't think an 15 yard out route is a high percentage play. Both QBs had been missing on those throws all night.

[Fosco33]

Where is the 11th NYG defender (and 11th Packer) outside that picture Fosco? I'm guessing to the left somewhere.

Behind the line of scrimmage (bottom left) - I had to crop it to get under 50kb for free posting.

http://www.hostpic.biz/uploads/560a53070a.jpg (http://www.hostpic.biz)

[The Leaper]

That picture is just greater evidence of why the Patriots are absolutely going to kill the Giants in SB42. Brady doesn't make mental mistakes like Favre does...and crossing patterns can KILL the Giants.

[vince]

Wow, that's a great shot Fos. IMO, Favre was negatively impacted by the cold. I don't care what McCarthy said. He didn't have any fire in his gut throughout the second half and overtime of that HUGE game.

[esoxx]

Why don't you show the shot when he's cranking up the throw. Showing it when the ball's halfway there means nothing.
If that's how it looked when he decided to throw it, it's a "mental error." Something Tom Brady would never do.
Otherwise it was just a bad throw.

[vince]

Why don't you show the shot when he's cranking up the throw. Showing it when the ball's halfway there means nothing.
If that's how it looked when he decided to throw it, it's a "mental error." Something Tom Brady would never do.
Otherwise it was just a bad throw.
Showing the play when the ball is halfway there means EVERYTHING. QB's need to get the ball to players WHEN they break open, not after.

[esoxx]

We'll disagree then.

[Fosco33]

Well, I can't take too much credit for the shot - just relaying info.

IMO, the cold played a part in the game - but there are other reasons why that play happended:

1. Offense was inconsistent throughout the game (1 for 10 on 3rd down)
2. Only about 20 minutes in ToP. They couldn't get a drive going for most of the 2nd half and late 4th Quarter.
3. Favre and the playcalling chose a lot of pass plays - but the team that could own the running game was likely going to win (a very representative stat in the playoffs).

The game shouldn't have even been that close (into OT) - by my count the Giants could have been up nearly 2 TDs. It was amazing the Pack got this far and somehow had a few shots to win the game. Simple fact - it was a bad read, bad throw, bad game.

I think Jennings would've been as tough a throw as the one to Driver (but he was more open).

The picture shows a few things - but watching the tape from a few angles is the only way to really see it - and you will still be disappointed...

[Fosco33]

Why don't you show the shot when he's cranking up the throw. Showing it when the ball's halfway there means nothing.
If that's how it looked when he decided to throw it, it's a "mental error." Something Tom Brady would never do.
Otherwise it was just a bad throw.
Showing the play when the ball is halfway there means EVERYTHING. QB's need to get the ball to players WHEN they break open, not after.

Shot with ball in Favre's hand. Grant wasn't yet an option (nor should have Driver been an option). D-lineman did have his hand up but it likely wasn't blocking Favre's view. Jennings was a few steps open with the safety turned, too.....

http://www.hostpic.biz/uploads/3578614e01.jpg (http://www.hostpic.biz)

[esoxx]

Why don't you show the shot when he's cranking up the throw. Showing it when the ball's halfway there means nothing.
If that's how it looked when he decided to throw it, it's a "mental error." Something Tom Brady would never do.
Otherwise it was just a bad throw.
Showing the play when the ball is halfway there means EVERYTHING. QB's need to get the ball to players WHEN they break open, not after.

Shot with ball in Favre's hand. Grant wasn't yet an option (nor should have Driver been an option). D-lineman did have his hand up but it likely wasn't blocking Favre's view. Jennings was a few steps open with the safety turned, too.....



http://www.hostpic.biz/uploads/3578614e01.jpg (http://www.hostpic.biz)


Thanks for the above shot Fosco.

I think it shows what I originally contended. It was more of a bad throw than a mental error. If he puts the ball on a line further to the outside, it's either complete or they go to 3rd down. The ball seemed to lack the juice required and was too far inside.

The better option likely was Jennings but no QB has fly vision and it's split second decision making. Jennings had only one catch in the game and Driver was the hot receiver, had scored the 90 yarder on a fabulous catch n run. Favre probably had more confidence in DD to make a play at that point and went that way with it.

All speculation at this point.

[Fosco33]

Why don't you show the shot when he's cranking up the throw. Showing it when the ball's halfway there means nothing.
If that's how it looked when he decided to throw it, it's a "mental error." Something Tom Brady would never do.
Otherwise it was just a bad throw.
Showing the play when the ball is halfway there means EVERYTHING. QB's need to get the ball to players WHEN they break open, not after.

Shot with ball in Favre's hand. Grant wasn't yet an option (nor should have Driver been an option). D-lineman did have his hand up but it likely wasn't blocking Favre's view. Jennings was a few steps open with the safety turned, too.....



http://www.hostpic.biz/uploads/3578614e01.jpg (http://www.hostpic.biz)


Thanks for the above shot Fosco.

I think it shows what I originally contended. It was more of a bad throw than a mental error. If he puts the ball on a line further to the outside, it's either complete or they go to 3rd down. The ball seemed to lack the juice required and was too far inside.

The better option likely was Jennings but no QB has fly vision and it's split second decision making. Jennings had only one catch in the game and Driver was the hot receiver, had scored the 90 yarder on a fabulous catch n run. Favre probably had more confidence in DD to make a play at that point and went that way with it.

All speculation at this point.

I agree on your points. From the stands, I had to ask a few times if GJ even showed up for the game. Totally ineffective use of talent.

Still have to wonder if it was a toughness test really. Pack did not practice outdoors; Giants did. Giants stuck it to the Pack on the ground (and then the air); Pack did not.

Just getting around to watch this one and burn a DVD... I'll have to watch the Seattle game just to leave this season with some positive memories.