No. 4 Should Have Been At Mini-Camp, If He's Still A Leader

[son of a vic]

There is absolutely not one good reason, for Favre not being present at this past weekend's minicamp. Is it too much to ask for the figurehead of the Packer franchise, to walk through a few drills, and stand around on the sidelines, getting to know some of the newer faces on the team? Isn't there a new offense to learn? Or does Brett just figure he'll keep throwing into triple coverage like he did under the former coach. Does he need to throw fastballs around the practice field? No, he does not. But by being physically present with THE TEAM, he shows the younger players that he is not above them, and will work hard WITH THEM, to win football games.
I question his willingness to do everthing that it takes, to lead this current group of young players into the season. His comments referring to "not changing the way he plays" shows that he refuses to acknowledge he's not the QB that won 3 MVP'S. He does need to change, and the excuses need to stop.
Before you respond with the rapid fire, anti- Favre, hatred filled, cuss laden posts, let me say I WANT Favre to be the heart and soul of this team. He just doesn't give me much of a reason to believe it can happen, based on his actions on and off the field the last few seasons.
I'm not so sure it wouldn't be in the best interest of the Packers and Brett, to open up the starting QB position in training camp, to light a fire under his ass. He is currently way too complacent, to be the fearless leader, that he once was.

[Homer Jay]

America is a wonderful country. Everyone is free to have their opinion. I disagree completely with yours, but thats OK. I have read in a couple spots that MM wanted to be able to work with Rodgers more this camp and so suggested Brett Favre take it off. If you have some proof that isn't true, I'd be interested to see it.

Brett Favre being in a 3 day mini camp in May will have absolutely no affect on how well the Packers do this fall. That is my opinion.

[son of a vic]

He didn't need to be there to throw another 5 yard slant. He needed to be there to show he's part of the team, and that he wants to improve his play this season. He needs to learn the new offense, just like everyone else does. Not showing up, makes him look like a prima donna, and that's not good for the chemistry of the team.

[packrulz]

The thing is if Brett starts throwing too early he has developed tendonitis in the past, and it bothered him all year. He could hang out with the players but the rooks have a lot to learn and they'll meet him soon enough. Plus, it's great to let A-Rod be the man and run the offense on his own for a while. I don't think it's a big deal.

[son of a vic]

It's no big deal when he throws 30 interceptions either. All those injuries are to blame.

[Rastak]

I was a bit surprised he wasn't there. What exactly is the negative to having him there?

Not my comentary but PFT's.......


====================================\\LORD FAVRE CATCHING MORE FLAK

There's plenty of chatter in league circles regarding the failure of Packers quarterback Brett Favre to appear at or participate in the team's weekend minicamp.

Sure, it's "voluntary." But that word has been rendered meaningless over the past five years. Voluntary minicamps are now "voluntary" only in the sense that a guy can't be fined for not attending. The players who believe in the cause and who intend to do their best to contribute for the coming season are expected to be there.

And where else is full participation more important than in Green Bay, where the team is coming off of a disastrous 4-12 season and breaking in a new coaching staff?

And why wouldn't Favre want to be there, especially if this very well could be his last season? He has the rest of his life to ride his tractor and play golf. (Maybe he can find a way to combine the two endeavors.) If he doesn't have a burning desire to soak in the final weeks and months of his pro football experience, maybe he should have retired.

There are other reasons for Favre to be there. Last season, he stayed away from much of the offseason workouts -- and look at the results. A career-high 29 interceptions.

Even if there's no correlation between his lack of preseason reps and his poor performance when the games counted, we always thought that pro athletes looked for ways to make changes after suffering through a bad season, if for no reasons other than superstition. This year, Favre really isn't doing anything much differently than a year ago.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the younger players need to see their on-field leader buying in to the new staff and the new zone blocking schemes and anything else that is different from a year ago. It will make it easier for them to sign off on the system, and it will make them less likely to view 2006 as the Favre farewell tour, where winning games is secondary to kissing Brett's butt.

As one league source opined to us, "The front office and coaching staff have no balls, and they are just feeding this guy's massive ego."

Based on the past four months, it's hard not to agree.

[Rastak]

Before you guys rip me a new asshole I don't think it's a huge deal. Just very surprised as Florio is I guess. Favre will be fine.

[Oscar]

I know Favre is THE center of attention.. at all times... He wasn't the only one not at camp. I think things are gonna work out.

[mraynrand]

The problem with the off-season these days is that there is too much of it. It gives you all kinds of time to magnify little things into big things, if you are so inclined. I bet guys like Horning or McGee laugh their asses off about all the whoop-dee-do regarding a frickin' mini camp. It's a non-issue for the most part, unless you've got extra time on your hands to kick it around. Wasn't this also the extra camp that McCarthy got because he's a new coach? *Yawn*

[Homer Jay]

Again, the last quote I read from McCarthy was he asked Brett Favre to skip this mini camp so he could concentrate on Aaron Rodgers. Until I see proof that isn't true I will consider this another non-story conjured up by media and people looking for reasons to bad mouth Favre.

[son of a vic]

So is it necassary for Favre to show up for training camp? He has played this silly game for 15 years you know. He should just stay in ol' Miss until the Saturday before the first game in September. He has thrown every pass there is to throw, and handed the ball off thousands of times. I mean really, what can the guy gain by practicing?

He's earned the right to not work as hard as the other lowlifes on the team. It's good to be the King.

[Guiness]

Oh, oh, let me be the first!

I can't believe this was posted over an hour ago, and no one has

Told Son of Vic to Shut The Hell UP!

Come on guys - he left JSO because they're such putzs, he was the altar boy in the buch. He missed getting told off when he was out of line. If we don't abuse him a bit, he'll leave here too!

[Rastak]

The problem with the off-season these days is that there is too much of it. It gives you all kinds of time to magnify little things into big things, if you are so inclined. I bet guys like Horning or McGee laugh their asses off about all the whoop-dee-do regarding a frickin' mini camp. It's a non-issue for the most part, unless you've got extra time on your hands to kick it around. Wasn't this also the extra camp that McCarthy got because he's a new coach? *Yawn*


With all do respect, the NFL is far more complicated (for better or worse) than it used to be. Yes he got an extra camp because new coaches usually install a new offense and defense and the players need to learn it. So the NFL allows an extra camp to help the players.

[Rastak]

Oh, oh, let me be the first!

I can't believe this was posted over an hour ago, and no one has

Told Son of Vic to Shut The Hell UP!

Come on guys - he left JSO because they're such putzs, he was the altar boy in the buch. He missed getting told off when he was out of line. If we don't abuse him a bit, he'll leave here too!


SOV is a fine poster....extremely dry sense of humor.,.and his bookmobile nascar reference was one of the best ever.....

[son of a vic]

Mike M. "Hey Brett, no need for you to come to this mini-camp, it will give Aaron Rodgers more reps with the no.1 offense. Just stay home and relax."

Brett -- " Relax, are you f'n kidding me? Iv'e been sitting around a half a frickin' year pissed about the way I stunk it up last year. I want to learn as much as I can about this new system. I want to be there, and I will be there, because it's my duty as the leader of this team. I don't give a shit if I'm just holding a clipboard and studying the playbook, I'm not going to skip out on my responsibilty to this franchise that pays me 10 million dollars a year."


Thee above is what we should be reading about in the papers, instead of why there's no need for the leader to make his presence known.
You guys can kiss Brett's ass, but I refuse.

[mraynrand]

With all do respect, the NFL is far more complicated (for better or worse) than it used to be. Yes he got an extra camp because new coaches usually install a new offense and defense and the players need to learn it. So the NFL allows an extra camp to help the players.

Don't sweat it. I don't deserve any respect. However, I recall McCarthy saying the offense was not that complicated.

[BlueBrewer]

So is it necassary for Favre to show up for training camp? He has played this silly game for 15 years you know. He should just stay in ol' Miss until the Saturday before the first game in September. He has thrown every pass there is to throw, and handed the ball off thousands of times. I mean really, what can the guy gain by practicing?

He's earned the right to not work as hard as the other lowlifes on the team. It's good to be the King.

I am in full agreement that every Favre situation including this one is far overblown. Are there things that Favre needs to learn for the new offense. YES!! Can he study the playbook in Kiln MS YES!! Does Aaron Rodgers need time with the first offense YES!! So should everybody chill out and tell the media to fing another story to overblow... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Patler]

pack4ever wrote: "Again, the last quote I read from McCarthy was he asked Brett Favre to skip this mini camp so he could concentrate on Aaron Rodgers. Until I see proof that isn't true I will consider this another non-story conjure"


The only problem is that the recent statement by MM was after one in which he made it sound clearly and completely to have been Favre's decision. That made me feel that the recent one was the "company line" to make it all sound good.

Just my impression.

[son of a vic]

So what positives were attained by him not being there? Does it outweigh the perception that's been created by him staying home?

I think not being there shows his lack of total commitment to the game he claims to still love.

And no, I won't shut the hell up!

[packerpete]

The money professional football players get paid makes it mandatory for them to be at the beck and call of the team 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 364 days a year.

Absolutely any time the league says the teams can have the players together is time EVERY player should be there.

This lazy, privledged, arrogant attitude displayed by some of the players simply infuriates me.

If I was the coach or GM, and the players should be very, very thankful Im not, I would be abusing those lazy do-nothing slackers every opportunity I got.

The players do NOT have to love management, but they MUST perform for them. The Socialist NFLPA has already gotten way more latitude from NFL management than players deserve, there is NO WAY team activity passes should be doled out as feel-good chits to favored players.

[Patler]

It seems to me very clear that Favre is being given special treatment, probably dictated by him.

!. MM has emphasized the need for "team bonding" in the off season workouts in Green Bay. He has the team lift together, not wonder in whenever they feel like it. Players have been very positive about the comraderie that is building. Favre does not attend those AND is told he can skip the 3 or 4 day minicamp? Doesn't make sense. The only conclusion is that Favre told MM when he would be there.

2. Favre could be there and Rodgers could still take most of the snaps. Favre's outward demonstration of commitment would impress the younger players just by being there. His exposure to the new coaches and new players sure couldn't hurt.

3. Why were no other players told to stay home, like maybe Henderson?

4. There is a new offense, sort of, but apparently a lot of new terminolgy. More experience with it would help. That would come from just "talking it", even if Rodgers was taking most of the snaps.

5. Favre will be taking snaps from a new center this year. As I recall, they had a few bad snaps last year when Wells substituted for Flanagan.

It is very clear that the team is treated one way and Favre another. The "reasons" that are given for his absence really make no sense if you look into them. On the other hand, there is no good reason for him to NOT be there, unless the staff is just humoring Favre until he decides to retire.

[Deputy Nutz]

Who really gives a shit? Stop falling into the media hype.

[Rastak]

It seems to me very clear that Favre is being given special treatment, probably dictated by him.

!. MM has emphasized the need for "team bonding" in the off season workouts in Green Bay. He has the team lift together, not wonder in whenever they feel like it. Players have been very positive about the comraderie that is building. Favre does not attend those AND is told he can skip the 3 or 4 day minicamp? Doesn't make sense. The only conclusion is that Favre told MM when he would be there.

2. Favre could be there and Rodgers could still take most of the snaps. Favre's outward demonstration of commitment would impress the younger players just by being there. His exposure to the new coaches and new players sure couldn't hurt.

3. Why were no other players told to stay home, like maybe Henderson?

4. There is a new offense, sort of, but apparently a lot of new terminolgy. More experience with it would help. That would come from just "talking it", even if Rodgers was taking most of the snaps.

5. Favre will be taking snaps from a new center this year. As I recall, they had a few bad snaps last year when Wells substituted for Flanagan.

It is very clear that the team is treated one way and Favre another. The "reasons" that are given for his absence really make no sense if you look into them. On the other hand, there is no good reason for him to NOT be there, unless the staff is just humoring Favre until he decides to retire.


You seem to have summed it up Shamler.....not a huge deal but a curiosity non-the-less.

[son of a vic]

Until someone has the stones to challenge King Brett, he will keep stringing us along during the off-season, and underachieving during the regulaR season.

[Patler]

I agree, Rastak, its not a huge deal one way or the other. But the only explanation that makes any sense to me, with all that MM has said, is that Favre told him he was not coming, not the other way around.

[b bulldog]

I posted this same opinion about two weeks ago and I agree with SOV 100%.

[son of a vic]

If Brett told MM he wasn't coming, that is a HUGE deal. That means he's uncoachable and will no doubt throw caution to the wind in the name of gunslingership.

[son of a vic]

This topic was not based on any thing the anti-Brett media has conjured up.
It is my take on the entire Favre saga, and it's impact on the Packers.

Favre has gotten a lot more love from the media, than negativity.

[Patler]

If Brett told MM he wasn't coming, that is a HUGE deal. That means he's uncoachable and will no doubt throw caution to the wind in the name of gunslingership.

Well...he has already told everyone he won't change, so there is nothing surprising in that.

It's not a big deal when players decide to skip VOLUNTARY camps. Its better if they don't. Personally, I would expect the real leaders to make every effort to be there one way or another. But, its the player's decision.

[FritzDontBlitz]

gloom-and-doom whiny ass threads like this one and the ones by polar bear are starting to make this board as lame as jso.

vic, is this supposed to be an objective discussion? or, are we just supposed to agree to your point of view without question?

in the future, i for one will just be reading and responding to the informative ones by motife and others who actually share information, rather than wasting my time viewing pointless rants like this one.

peace....

[swede]

I guess I 'd like it if I had read an article that spoke to Favre's commitment and leadership by attending every mini-camp and holding extra workouts with his receivers.

Since I am not extraordinarily unhappy to read that he's taking off for one mini-camp in May I am forced to admit that I must be holding on to some sort of double standard that I would grant, I think, to Brett alone.

I am not so certain that TT and MM are holding on to the same sort of warm, cuddly, all-forgiving feelings that I am. Brett will play well and limit his picks during the regular season or he will be asked to sit down.

Now here is a true poser: if Brett had a start taken away for poor play would he ride the pine in dutiful silence or immediately retire? If he were playing poorly and Rodgers came in and played well you'd still want Brett to be there backing Rodgers up. That would be the best thing to do for the team at that point.

My guess is Brett retires the minute he's asked to sit. With all due respect to a player I greatly admire, at this point in his career every decision Brett has made seems to be more about him than about the team.

[Patler]

gloom-and-doom whiny ass threads like this one and the ones by polar bear are starting to make this board as lame as jso.

vic, is this supposed to be an objective discussion? or, are we just supposed to agree to your point of view without question?

in the future, i for one will just be reading and responding to the informative ones by motife and others who actually share information, rather than wasting my time viewing pointless rants like this one.

peace....

And you are telling everyone this, why? Most of us do not read every thread, nor feel an obligation to respond to everything. There is nothing wrong with this thread. It is an opportunity for those who want to to discuss what the real motivation is behind the handling of Favre. Nothing wrong with that.

If you don't want to participate, don't.

[Patler]

I guess I 'd like it if I had read an article that spoke to Favre's commitment and leadership by attending every mini-camp and holding extra workouts with his receivers.

Since I am not extraordinarily unhappy to read that he's taking off for one mini-camp in May I am forced to admit that I must be holding on to some sort of double standard that I would grant, I think, to Brett alone.

I am not so certain that TT and MM are holding on to the same sort of warm, cuddly, all-forgiving feelings that I am. Brett will play well and limit his picks during the regular season or he will be asked to sit down.

Now here is a true poser: if Brett had a start taken away for poor play would he ride the pine in dutiful silence or immediately retire? If he were playing poorly and Rodgers came in and played well you'd still want Brett to be there backing Rodgers up. That would be the best thing to do for the team at that point.

My guess is Brett retires the minute he's asked to sit. With all due respect to a player I greatly admire, at this point in his career every decision Brett has made seems to be more about him than about the team.

Interesting. I agree, too, that a man who seemed to be the ultimate team player is now more interested in what makes him feel good, but I doubt he would retire in the middle of the season.

[son of a vic]

So Fritz Don't Blitz is boycotting threads that require reading without the green tinted spectacles. My life is now pointless, and I will drink myself to an early death.

[mraynrand]

How about this: The minicamp is a lame-ass minicamp that has three practices filled with a bunch f guys that won't even make it through half of training camp running around. Did any of you guys notice that a few guys got hurt running around on the turf and that a ton of guys didn't practive or show up because of injuries of different degrees. I wonder if some of you might be singing a different tune if Favre had gotten hurt (Ooops, I forgot - a lot of you think that Favre was the problem last year - not that fact that the entire team was injured).

The real question should be why anyone really gives a flying crap about a stupid 3 practice mini camp. What a waste of 00000s and 1111111s.

[swede]

Shamrock,

A digression: Do you recall a time when Lynn Dickey was struggling with interceptions and poor play? Subsequently he was benched, I think. In favor of whom I do not know.

I seem to remember him responding to a media question about it that if Coach Starr hadn't benched him he'd have benched himself. He went on to play very well after that.

("You can't lick our Dickey" was the sign that was NOT shown on the televised games in those days.)

Sorry for the digression people. You may now return to spirited debate over whether Favre's decision to miss a May mini-camp was an inconsequential event or indicative a growing and troubling self-centeredness in our legendary quarterback.

[MJZiggy]

Here's something that may interest only me. There were 23 people missing from this voluntary camp for various reasons. Why aren't we calling out the rest of them? The included rookies and team leaders (Al Harris). Is Al Harris less selfish than Favre because he was out for family reasons instead of a charity event? By the way, charity events are scheduled months and sometimes a year in advance. Should he have dumped the commitment he made to help the kids/sick people or whatever charity this was and cost them research and support dollars? What if this was the research money that was to cure childhood cancer that would not get raised so that Brett could be at mini camp? What if Coach Mac is telling the truth and doesn't want Brett throwing too much in the offseason thereby possibly injuring his throwing arm and at the same time costing Rodgers who will someday have to lead this ship the experience that he cannot get during the season. M3 said that once the season starts, Rodgers gets no reps with the first team unless he has to go into a game. Isn't it possible that while you want Favre in there, it's also to Rodgers' benefit to assert himself as the future leader of the team without Brett's dominant presence getting in the way? Who the hell's gonna pay any attention to Rodgers if they know Favre's taking the next snap? I don't see the big deal with Favre not being there. We've known he wouldn't be around for a long time (since before the first camp) and he will be at 10 of 14 OTA's so what's the big problem except that you all want him to be there. You seem to be the only ones who care because our team coach sure doesn't seem bothered by it, nor do the GM or any of his team mates.

[Noodle]

Ziggy -- what charity event was Favre at? I didn't see a mention of it on his website.

And for those needing some sort of confirmation that skipping practice was Favre's idea, I provide you the following from a story appearing May 8 before the current "this was M3's idea" spin: http://www.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_25926182.shtml:

"While McCarthy didn’t say so, he implied the decision was Favre’s. Last year, former coach Mike Sherman excused Favre from both minicamps. Although attendance at the next minicamp is optional, the majority of the players are expected to attend.

“Brettâà ¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s plan is that he will not participate in the next minicamp,” McCarthy said. “He will not be here.”

Finally, by way of contrast, I give you Ahman Green. Now, I'm admittedly a big Green fan. Green, of course, suffered a terrific injury last year and is still rehabing his thigh. No reason for him to be at camp, as he can't go full speed yet. But, according to Christl's camp report, Green showed up and even took some half speed hand-offs. Why? Because Green's a leader. Ever seen how he's the first guy to give congrats to the other backs when they do something well? Do you really think Favre would react the same way about Rogers?

It's not that anyone on the team cares that Favre is gone, but you can't tell me that they wouldn't dig it if ol' No. 4 were out there doing the do. He shoulda been there. And don't try telling me this was M3's idea. He's making the best of a situation thrust on him by Favre.

[Patler]

Shamrock,

A digression: Do you recall a time when Lynn Dickey was struggling with interceptions and poor play? Subsequently he was benched, I think. In favor of whom I do not know.

I seem to remember him responding to a media question about it that if Coach Starr hadn't benched him he'd have benched himself. He went on to play very well after that.

("You can't lick our Dickey" was the sign that was NOT shown on the televised games in those days.)

Sorry for the digression people. You may now return to spirited debate over whether Favre's decision to miss a May mini-camp was an inconsequential event or indicative a growing and troubling self-centeredness in our legendary quarterback.

That seems to be dredging a recollection of sorts, but nothing too specific. I have a vague recollection of him saying something about benching himself once, too.

[MJZiggy]

It's weird...I went digging for Favre's commitment and found this instead from packersnews.com.

Favre is one of several players who will miss this minicamp, which is voluntary, though McCarthy suggested all the absences were agreed upon shortly after he put out his offseason schedule in February. McCarthy mentioned only one player who won’t attend, halfback Ahman Green, because of a charity commitment. Green is recovering from a torn quadriceps tendon and won’t be ready to practice until late August anyway.

www.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_26082430.shtml that's bizarre because Green was there.


"It's voluntary. I mean, you'd like to have everybody here," McCarthy said. "We have a number of people (who may miss this camp) and we're working through that. I'll make those announcements (today). But we have some guys with excused absences, dealing with charity things and the sort. Some of these plans were made a year in advance. This is something that will iron itself out a little cleaner in the second year."

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=425021

Anyway, I can't find it--must've been something I read or misread back a couple of months ago when it was first announced that Favre wouldn't be at this camp. That was a long time ago.

[GrnBay007]

Really.......as Packer fans we should all be hoping for a great year from the whole team, right? If Favre has a good year do you really think anyone will remember or dwell on the fact that he missed a mini camp? Last season left a scare for everyone. The media has done a good enough job jabbing Favre since day 1 of off season. Lets not buy into that make mountains out of mole hills. Would it have been nice if he didn't miss this one? YES. Will the sky fall that he did miss this one? NO.

[MadtownPacker]

gloom-and-doom whiny ass threads like this one and the ones by polar bear are starting to make this board as lame as jso.

I wouldnt put SOV along sidetank at all. SOV may not have a popular opinion but he always brings a well explained arguement not rancid waste like tank.

SOV - I somewhat feel you on saying Favre should have been there but like others have mentioned he wasnt the only vet not to show up. Let's let him throw his first interception at least before we brand him a loser.

Besides, what good is being at your job for years if you cant have any perks? :mrgreen:

[Patler]

Here's a reason I hadn't thought of, why Favre should be there:

"But for the third straight day, Ruvell Martin turned heads, especially with a deep sideline catch. It looked as if he went up a stepladder to get the ball and he landed well in bounds.

"The three quarterbacks in camp, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin and Tom Arth, seemed to be throwing the ball higher to the 6-foot-4 Martin. Now the Packers will have to determine whether Martin is one of those players who looks great in May but fades to a memory by mid-August. They'll also have to find out how he does catching one of Brett Favre's missiles."

[GBRulz]

SOV complains about Favre receiving special treatment yet he ONLY creates a thread about Favre not attending mini-camp, but not for the other 30 something players that did not attend? Where is the attention they deserve?

[GrnBay007]

Here's a reason I hadn't thought of, why Favre should be there:

"But for the third straight day, Ruvell Martin turned heads, especially with a deep sideline catch. It looked as if he went up a stepladder to get the ball and he landed well in bounds.

"The three quarterbacks in camp, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin and Tom Arth, seemed to be throwing the ball higher to the 6-foot-4 Martin. Now the Packers will have to determine whether Martin is one of those players who looks great in May but fades to a memory by mid-August. They'll also have to find out how he does catching one of Brett Favre's missiles."

God forbid......lets not let Martin or the others have to wait a day or two or a week or two to catch one of Favre's "missiles". Please........lets not be Drama Queens over this.
Favre spreads it out....he's always shared the passes. If this guy is good enough, Favre will find him.

[RashanGary]

SOV complains about Favre receiving special treatment yet he ONLY creates a thread about Favre not attending mini-camp, but not for the other 30 something players that did not attend? Where is the attention they deserve?

Great point.

[Bossman641]

SOV complains about Favre receiving special treatment yet he ONLY creates a thread about Favre not attending mini-camp, but not for the other 30 something players that did not attend? Where is the attention they deserve?

I'm not SOV but I'll give my take on this. It's more than just the fact that Favre missed a minicamp. For me, it is a collection of things. The constant will-he or won't-he retire that has been going on for years. The skipping of minicamps, not just this year but others as well. The statements of "this is how I've always played the game and I'm not going to change" and "I'm not sure if I want the ball come crunch time." The dissing of management and his teammates during the offseason.

I want Favre to have a HUUGE season. I don't want a repeat of last year. To me at least, it appears as if Favre is not totally committed and that could lead to another awful year. My take on all of this is that Favre is simply not ready to leave the spotlight. It appears as if Favre has transformed from the ultimate team-first player that we have all adored over the years to one that is simply more concerned about his own comfort.

You may want to blame the whole Favre circus on the media. If that is the case I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Patler]

Here's a reason I hadn't thought of, why Favre should be there:

"But for the third straight day, Ruvell Martin turned heads, especially with a deep sideline catch. It looked as if he went up a stepladder to get the ball and he landed well in bounds.

"The three quarterbacks in camp, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin and Tom Arth, seemed to be throwing the ball higher to the 6-foot-4 Martin. Now the Packers will have to determine whether Martin is one of those players who looks great in May but fades to a memory by mid-August. They'll also have to find out how he does catching one of Brett Favre's missiles."

God forbid......lets not let Martin or the others have to wait a day or two or a week or two to catch one of Favre's "missiles". Please........lets not be Drama Queens over this.
Favre spreads it out....he's always shared the passes. If this guy is good enough, Favre will find him.

Who the hell is being a drama queen? You who think it is fine and dandy that your supposed team leader skips out on a weekend camp are the ones making a big deal out of this. All I did is point out inconsistencies in the stories that lead me to believe this is Favre's decision, not MM's. I have said several times IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL, but I think it is stupid on his part not to be there, unless he legitimately has a significant conflict. (None has been mentioned that I have seen.)

The quote concerning Ruvell Martin was intended to be tongue in cheek.

30 vets missing from camp? Not according to MM. He said 22, with 12 having injuries and 10 excused. But from the pictures and stories it seems like many of the them showed up anyway. Clifton was there, Green was there. Thornburg was there. All had been listed as expected "no shows". I have no idea about others, but I believe I read that Davenport was there, and some of the surgery recoveries have been there recuperating.

It never ceases to amaze me how unwilling some fans are to even let a hint of a thought enter their minds that their sports hero isn't perfect. The minute a negative comment comes out, the name calling and belittling begins. An unemotional debate is impossible.

[GrnBay007]

OK, I shouldn't have used your quote Shamrock......I wasn't calling you a drama queen. It's just the whole topic in general. Like you said .....nobody has mentioned the reason he wasn't there so I can't figure out why everyone wants to jump down his throat.

[Patler]

OK, I shouldn't have used your quote Shamrock......I wasn't calling you a drama queen. It's just the whole topic in general. Like you said .....nobody has mentioned the reason he wasn't there so I can't figure out why everyone wants to jump down his throat.

I think it is easy to understand why this bothers a lot of people.
New coaching staff.
New offense.
Lots of new players last year, probably a lot more this year.
Bad year last year for the team.
Worst year ever last year for Favre in many respects.

Put that all together and you want your team leaders to really lead. Demonstrate the importance of off season activities, conditioning etc.
Show the team that last year was not acceptable.
Show that you as a team leader will do everything you can to make last year an aberation, including rededicating yourself to team success .

Again, I don't think it is a real big deal by any means, but I find it disappointing unless there is a real good reason for Favre not being there. With all the attention his every move has, if he had a conflict it would seem like that would have been made known.

It has to make it a bit hard for the staff to try and impress upon players that these are important to the team if Favre doesn't see it as being important enough for him to be there. I think it was a bit different last year with a holdover staff. Just more of the same at the camps and much more important to newer players then Packer veterans. I see this year as a bit different because there is a new staff. It would have been nice for Favre to show a 100% commitment to the new coaches and what they are trying to do, especially after Favre waffled so much about even coming back this year.

Again, not a big deal, but kind of a mixed message being sent by Favre by not being there.

[mraynrand]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).

Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

[Patler]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).

Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

So why can't this just be a simple discussion???

[Patler]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).


Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

So why can't this just be a simple discussion???

I'll answer my own question - because it involves Favre. Very few people will tolerate a simple, fact based discussion about Favre.

[MJZiggy]

That is, perhaps not only because of his polarizing popularity, but also because we are trying to have a discussion regarding his motivation for skipping camp, and his reasons for absence which we do not know. Considering his level of involvement this offseason and how quickly it was announce that he would not be here, there must be some conflict (I still could swear I read of a charity conflict though I can't find the source to prove it).

Also, those that are saying that Favre's absence is telling the rookies that they don't have to totally commit to the team is silly to me. If I'm a National Football League rookie, I'm fighting for my job and my team leader could be picking his butt on the sideline for all I care. It's my job to dedicate myself to making the team no matter what ANYBODY else does and if I'm sitting back thinking that if my 15-year vet QB doesn't have to be there then I don't either, I won't be around long. What Favre does should not influence Blackmon in the least and I'm sure it doesn't. Also, there will be 10 OTA's and all of training camp for Martin to catch Favre's bullets. How 'bout we let him learn the system before we start breaking his fingers?

[Patler]

That is, perhaps not only because of his polarizing popularity, but also because we are trying to have a discussion regarding his motivation for skipping camp, and his reasons for absence which we do not know. Considering his level of involvement this offseason and how quickly it was announce that he would not be here, there must be some conflict (I still could swear I read of a charity conflict though I can't find the source to prove it).

Also, those that are saying that Favre's absence is telling the rookies that they don't have to totally commit to the team is silly to me. If I'm a National Football League rookie, I'm fighting for my job and my team leader could be picking his butt on the sideline for all I care. It's my job to dedicate myself to making the team no matter what ANYBODY else does and if I'm sitting back thinking that if my 15-year vet QB doesn't have to be there then I don't either, I won't be around long. What Favre does should not influence Blackmon in the least and I'm sure it doesn't. Also, there will be 10 OTA's and all of training camp for Martin to catch Favre's bullets. How 'bout we let him learn the system before we start breaking his fingers?

What a leader's actions says to a team as a whole, and not just rookies, is not like an on-off switch. Its not either good or bad. Its a subtle attitude, an impression. If you try to look at it as telling a rookie he doesn't have to prepare, you are missing the point. It is much more subtle than that. It can also have an impact even on veterans, and probably not one they will express publically, or maybe even be conscious of. They will recite the party line, even if in the back of their minds they start questioning whether Favre really wants to be part of the team or not. Does he really have the comittment he once had? After all, five years ago these same players probably couldn't imagine Favre skipping anything in the off-season. This may tell them that Favre is not the Favre of seasons past.

Leadership is a funny thing. Followers will follow a strong leader through anything, unquestioningly, so long as their confidence is not shaken and they have no doubts. Let a single doubt come in and allegiance begins to waiver, hesitation arises, and performance can decline in a crucial situation. I'm not referring to only sports teams, but group dynamics in general. Could that happen with the Packers and Favre? Of course it could. Will it? No one really knows until it does happen.

I guess in summary, I see much of what is happening as a weakening (NOT disappearance) of Favre's leadership position on the team. Maybe that is a good thing, because he won't be around that much longer, regardless. When he is not there, and most of the team is, he is not the leader of the team in that camp, on that day, at that time. The group, the lockerroom, will naturally look for other leaders. Rodgers, Tauscher and Kampman were ones the articles mentioned as stepping into leadership roles at the camp.

I find this all to be interesting more than disconcerting.

Am I suggesting Favre is not the leader of this team? ABSOLUTELY NOT. However, the power of his leadership may be declining, as it often does with aging leaders in a physically performing group, such as a sports team.

[Scott Campbell]

Brett missing?

No biggie. I think he's just chill'n.

[MJZiggy]

Patrock, do you think that this is, perhaps what M3 wants? Not necessarily to undermine Favre's leadership, but perhaps to transfer it over to Rodgers, who as Brett likes to say, is one injury away from being the starter? NOT that I want Brett Favre to have an injury, but the older he gets, the more of a possibility it becomes. Doesn't Rodgers have to establish himself as well. This idea actually reinforces to me that this could have been M3's idea as stated, because with Favre in the room, Rodgers will not be seen as a leader IMO. Favre is just too strong a personality. And AR really needs to be seen by this team as a leader (perhaps not THE leader, but A leader). It sounds like we're discussing psychology far more this morning than football.

[Rastak]

Patrock, do you think that this is, perhaps what M3 wants? Not necessarily to undermine Favre's leadership, but perhaps to transfer it over to Rodgers, who as Brett likes to say, is one injury away from being the starter? NOT that I want Brett Favre to have an injury, but the older he gets, the more of a possibility it becomes. Doesn't Rodgers have to establish himself as well. This idea actually reinforces to me that this could have been M3's idea as stated, because with Favre in the room, Rodgers will not be seen as a leader IMO. Favre is just too strong a personality. And AR really needs to be seen by this team as a leader (perhaps not THE leader, but A leader). It sounds like we're discussing psychology far more this morning than football.


Wow, that's an interesting theory. It's possible I guess.

[GBRulz]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/gbrulz/05-06-06_1730.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Ok, where did you get that? How old is the pic?

[Rastak]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/gbrulz/05-06-06_1730.jpg


Ah, so you think that's Bretts message to Green Bay? :mrgreen:

[GBRulz]

No, Rastak...just the drama queens and the media :wink:

Scott, I saw this pic in a bar I was at in Wausau (Joe you migt know this place...the Chatterbox) and I took a pic of it with my phone! I've been waiting for the perfect time to share it. This thread deems worthy IMO :lol:

[Patler]

Patrock, do you think that this is, perhaps what M3 wants? Not necessarily to undermine Favre's leadership, but perhaps to transfer it over to Rodgers, who as Brett likes to say, is one injury away from being the starter? NOT that I want Brett Favre to have an injury, but the older he gets, the more of a possibility it becomes. Doesn't Rodgers have to establish himself as well. This idea actually reinforces to me that this could have been M3's idea as stated, because with Favre in the room, Rodgers will not be seen as a leader IMO. Favre is just too strong a personality. And AR really needs to be seen by this team as a leader (perhaps not THE leader, but A leader). It sounds like we're discussing psychology far more this morning than football.

I'm not sure that Head Coaches are capable of thinking that far ahead!
I think the enhancement of Rodgers as a leader is more of an inevitable result of and not a purpose for Favre not being there.

[Scott Campbell]

Ah, so you think that's Bretts message to Green Bay? :mrgreen:


You're just upset because you'll be trotting out Brad Johnson as your starter. But have no fear. I'm sure Brad will attend all of the voluntary minicamps.

:razz:

[Rastak]

Ah, so you think that's Bretts message to Green Bay? :mrgreen:


You're just upset because you'll be trotting out Brad Johnson as your starter. But have no fear. I'm sure Brad will attend all of the voluntary minicamps.

:razz:


As any true leader would.... :wink:

[Scott Campbell]

As any true leader would.... :wink:

Well I'll roll the dice with our 3 time MVP, and I'll spot you your "true leader". Good luck with that.

[MJZiggy]

Most good coaches are also pretty good psychologists. Look at how Lombardi could work his players to a point and then at the exact right moment, back off to get the absolute effort out of each of his players, while at the same time, keeping their respect. I think they're much better at thinking ahead than we give them credit for. In this case, if the rumors were true that TT and M3 really didn't want him back, wouldn't this be their next likely move, excuse Brett from camp so that the one they wanted gets the reps and establishes himself with the team? Yes it's a product of, but don't you thnk it possible that it could be a motivating factor as well?

[Rastak]

As any true leader would.... :wink:

Well I'll roll the dice with our 3 time MVP, and I'll spot you your "true leader". Good luck with that.


I knew you'd resort to pulling out dusty trophies and then rely on yellowing stat sheets....LOL.


If he stays healthy Brad will be fine for a year or two then off into the sunset.[/i]

[Scott Campbell]

As any true leader would.... :wink:

Well I'll roll the dice with our 3 time MVP, and I'll spot you your "true leader". Good luck with that.


I knew you'd resort to pulling out dusty trophies and then rely on yellowing stat sheets....LOL.


If he stays healthy Brad will be fine for a year or two then off into the sunset.[/i]

I'm sure you'd resort to trophies and stat sheets too - if the Vikings had any.

[Rastak]

As any true leader would.... :wink:

Well I'll roll the dice with our 3 time MVP, and I'll spot you your "true leader". Good luck with that.


I knew you'd resort to pulling out dusty trophies and then rely on yellowing stat sheets....LOL.


If he stays healthy Brad will be fine for a year or two then off into the sunset.[/i]

I'm sure you'd resort to trophies and stat sheets too - if the Vikings had any.


Last time I checked Brad had a ring....anyway, why are you in such a pissy mood? I didn't post a pic of Brett giving the Pack the finger....geez. I actually thought Ziggy was onto something perhaps. Go rag on Shamler....LOL....

[MJZiggy]

As any true leader would.... :wink:

Well I'll roll the dice with our 3 time MVP, and I'll spot you your "true leader". Good luck with that.


I knew you'd resort to pulling out dusty trophies and then rely on yellowing stat sheets....LOL.


If he stays healthy Brad will be fine for a year or two then off into the sunset.[/i]

I'm sure you'd resort to trophies and stat sheets too - if the Vikings had any.


Last time I checked Brad had a ring....anyway, why are you in such a pissy mood? I didn't post a pic of Brett giving the Pack the finger....geez. I actually thought Ziggy was onto something perhaps. Go rag on Shamler....LOL....Where's Tank when you need him?

[GBRulz]

Actually, I think Scott's comment was brilliant :mrgreen:

Does that make me pissy, too?

[Rastak]

Actually, I think Scott's comment was brilliant :mrgreen:

Does that make me pissy, too?


No but it does make question your taste.... :smile:

[Scott Campbell]

Last time I checked Brad had a ring....anyway, why are you in such a pissy mood? I didn't post a pic of Brett giving the Pack the finger....geez. I actually thought Ziggy was onto something perhaps. Go rag on Shamler....LOL....



I haven't been in a pissy mood for months. I just never shy away from an opportunity to engage the enemy.

I can't remember, did Brad win his ring with the Vikings?

[Scott Campbell]

Actually, I think Scott's comment was brilliant :mrgreen:

Does that make me pissy, too?


I think they've got 4 of those 3" high trophies that say "Participant" on them.

[Rastak]

Last time I checked Brad had a ring....anyway, why are you in such a pissy mood? I didn't post a pic of Brett giving the Pack the finger....geez. I actually thought Ziggy was onto something perhaps. Go rag on Shamler....LOL....



I haven't been in a pissy mood for months. I just never shy away from an opportunity to engage the enemy.

I can't remember, did Brad win his ring with the Vikings?


You might want to lay off the booze if you're not sure....

[MadtownPacker]

Does that make me pissy, too?

Hey learn to spell. You used a "i" instead of a "u"!

[GBRulz]

hush it Mad, I'm deliberating with the enemy here :mrgreen:

[mraynrand]

Hey Shamrock,

There's no problem is there? This whole thread is a discussion, isn't it? My view is that the whole thing is way overblown. I also think there are Favre negativists who will load too much crap on Favre's back just as there are Favre apologists who think he can do no wrong. I think that SOV thinks he should show up as good PR/leadership and bulldog thinks he needs more reps so he doesn't throw as many INTs this year. So what? I think getting frothed up over 3 workouts is a waste of energy. I personally think that given the reaction that Favre generates to just about anything he does, he probably ought to show up just for the positive PR. He might also consider additional ablutions to cleanse himself of his evil wrongdoings (that last remark was sarcasm, not an attempt to stifle discussion!)

Wheeeee, the offseason is fun!

[Scott Campbell]

Here's a great pic of Brad Childress from the Viking's web site:

http://www.librarising.com/astrology/moonsigns/Simages/gavinmacleod.jpg

[mraynrand]

Actually, I think Scott's comment was brilliant :mrgreen:

Does that make me pissy, too?


I think they've got 4 of those 3" high trophies that say "Participant" on them.

and on top they've got a gold-painted plastic mini-trophy where the two sides are fused together, just a little off so that you can easily see the seam.

[Scott Campbell]

You might want to lay off the booze if you're not sure....

Oh comeon Ras, now who's gettin pissy.

:razz:

[GBRulz]

One might find a framed "award certificate" like the one below in the Vikings locker room.

http://www.oakstonewellness.com/product_images/choking.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Why are you ghosts changing the subject?

Favre is a selfish detractor. You can tell by the way he doesnt deny it. I bet he would bash himself if it gets him camera time.

[Rastak]

One might find a framed "award certificate" like the one below in the Vikings locker room.

http://www.oakstonewellness.com/product_images/choking.jpg


Now THAT'S funny. But all that went to jacksonville with Mr Tice....(I hope!)

[GBRulz]

Hopefully Jax have plently of pencils in supply for Mr. Tice come gameday!

[Patler]

Most good coaches are also pretty good psychologists. Look at how Lombardi could work his players to a point and then at the exact right moment, back off to get the absolute effort out of each of his players, while at the same time, keeping their respect. I think they're much better at thinking ahead than we give them credit for. In this case, if the rumors were true that TT and M3 really didn't want him back, wouldn't this be their next likely move, excuse Brett from camp so that the one they wanted gets the reps and establishes himself with the team? Yes it's a product of, but don't you thnk it possible that it could be a motivating factor as well?

From that viewpoint yes. As a matter of fact, I did suggest once either in this thread or another (I'm too lazy to look!) that perhaps the staff was just humoring Favre until he decides to retire, and they couldn't care less if he is there or not!

[Scott Campbell]

After record player participation last year, coach Childress and his crack event staff are eager for this years outing on Lake Minnetonka.


http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/images_tv/loveb.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Many Viking fans were unaware that new coach Brad Childress previously studied under the watchful eye of legendary Viking coach Lou "Bud" Grant.

http://www.creativescreenwriting.com/csdaily/csdart/images/2005-07-Jul/Mary%20Tyler%20Moore%20S2%20-%20We%20miss%20ya,%20Ted%20(175w).jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Brad Childress and disgruntled quarterback Duante Culpepper (upper left) in happier times.

http://www.albertspage.it/sigle_tv/foto/Love_Boat07.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Always the joker, freshly minted head coach Brad Childress asks director of media relations Vicky Cartright where the Viking trophy case is.

http://www.albertspage.it/sigle_tv/foto/Love_Boat03.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Coach Childress explains the new Viking dress code to probable starter Brad Johnson, but thanks him for showing up to mini camp in the best shape of his career.

http://www.tvland.com/shows/loveboat/images/observation/landscape_eva_gavin.jpg

[Rastak]

Coach Childress explains the new Viking dress code to probable starter Brad Johnson, but thanks him for showing up to mini camp in the best shape of his career.

http://www.tvland.com/shows/loveboat/images/observation/landscape_eva_gavin.jpg


You should find some shots of that dude in Mary Hartman Mary Hartman...I think he's a dead wringer for that guy.

[Scott Campbell]

New to the state, coach Childress was initially confused by the term Golden Gopher.

http://breezip.diaryland.com/images/gopher.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Lifelong Viking fan Sven Norseman shows Coach Childress the franchises unique version of a Superbowl trophy.

http://www.rockyoutfitters.com/KS-7.jpg

[Homer Jay]

pack4ever wrote: "Again, the last quote I read from McCarthy was he asked Brett Favre to skip this mini camp so he could concentrate on Aaron Rodgers. Until I see proof that isn't true I will consider this another non-story conjure"


The only problem is that the recent statement by MM was after one in which he made it sound clearly and completely to have been Favre's decision. That made me feel that the recent one was the "company line" to make it all sound good.

Just my impression.

I'm looking for some quotes that support that and I can't find any. Can you show me some quotes that make it seem to be clearly Favre's decision?

[MJZiggy]

Couldn't it possibly have been by mutual agreement? Favre's got something going on and mentions it to M3 who tells him not to worry about it, he wants to work with Rodgers anyway? Or perhaps M3 mentions something to Favre about "how much have you been throwing? Not at all? Why don't you do the first camp and we'll keep you out of the second, kinda ease you into things?" to which Favre says great, I wanna spend some time with my kids anyway...

It doesn't have to be either/or.

[Noodle]

And for those needing some sort of confirmation that skipping practice was Favre's idea, I provide you the following from a story appearing May 8 before the current "this was M3's idea" spin: http://www.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_25926182.shtml:

"While McCarthy didn’t say so, he implied the decision was Favre’s. Last year, former coach Mike Sherman excused Favre from both minicamps. Although attendance at the next minicamp is optional, the majority of the players are expected to attend.

“Brettâà ¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s plan is that he will not participate in the next minicamp,” McCarthy said. “He will not be here.”

Pack4Ever -- You must have missed my prior post on this. Don't you think M3 was pretty clear (or as clear as he could be) when he said "Brett's plan"; not "my plan" or even "our plan" but "Brett's plan."

Besides, M3 would have to be brain dead not to want his no. 1 QB in camp. I can understand the folks who think this is no big deal, but it is absurd to think this is anything but Favre's idea to miss camp.

[Scott Campbell]

Back at the Viking training facility, Brad shows off the results of his offseason training regimine. Looking pretty buff Mr. Johnson!

http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2001/11/13/20011112151658.jpeg

[Homer Jay]

3 practices in May. No pads, no helmets, no tackling. Until proven otherwise, I'll stick with the "company line" that it was MM's decision for Brett Favre not to attend. Go ahead and prove me wrong. For those hoping Brett fails this year, this is just more ammo for their "I told you so" rants they hope to be able to write later. "Apologists" may say # 4 can do no wrong. I'm saying this mini camp and Brett Favre not attending (no matter whose decision it was) is incredibly overblown. Even ESPN didn't waste any time on this "story."

[Patler]

pack4ever wrote: "Again, the last quote I read from McCarthy was he asked Brett Favre to skip this mini camp so he could concentrate on Aaron Rodgers. Until I see proof that isn't true I will consider this another non-story conjure"


The only problem is that the recent statement by MM was after one in which he made it sound clearly and completely to have been Favre's decision. That made me feel that the recent one was the "company line" to make it all sound good.

Just my impression.

I'm looking for some quotes that support that and I can't find any. Can you show me some quotes that make it seem to be clearly Favre's decision?

It was in an article at the end of the last camp. Someone quoted it in a thread on this board within the last couple days. To be honest, I have no inclination or desire to look for it myself. JSOnline has made it much more difficult and time-consuming to look for articles since they redesigned their site. I used to be able to pull up a full-years index of Packer articles on one screen. It also went back something like seven years. Their site is a pain in the butt now, and it goes back only about a year.

Sorry to not be more helpful!

[Patler]

Looks like Noodle did our work for us!

[Homer Jay]

First I agree about JSO and I'd say the same thing about packers.com.

I think the quote that is supposed to change my mind that MM said "Bretts plan is that he will not participate"..... Isn't it possible that MM and BF decided together that he wouldn't attend the camp or that MM asked him not to and MM saying "Bretts plan....." signified nothing?

You may be right, I have certainly been wrong before, but Im going to stick with what was said and not what somebody may have meant.

[MJZiggy]

First I agree about JSO and I'd say the same thing about packers.com.

I think the quote that is supposed to change my mind that MM said "Bretts plan is that he will not participate"..... Isn't it possible that MM and BF decided together that he wouldn't attend the camp or that MM asked him not to and MM saying "Bretts plan....." signified nothing?

You may be right, I have certainly been wrong before, but Im going to stick with what was said and not what somebody may have meant.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!

[billy_oliver880]

You know news has got to be slow if the most popular topic is the fact that someone didn't make it to a voluntary camp.

[swede]

You know news has got to be slow if the most popular topic is the fact that someone didn't make it to a voluntary camp.

Yeah, well what can you do? The corn in the poop thread never took off.

[GBRulz]

yeah and SOV will be happy that he doesn't have to bump his own posts :wink:

[mraynrand]

You know news has got to be slow if the most popular topic is the fact that someone didn't make it to a voluntary camp.

Yeah, well what can you do? The corn in the poop thread never took off.

LOL. I did my best!

[Scott Campbell]

I laughed at the thread. But I had to look up that screwy word you used.

[Murphy37]

VICTOR! I love the thread. You got the finger on the old hot button as usual. Don't even ask where my finger is. 6 pages too! Nice work. Good to have some controversy around here. I have always defended Favre in the past, and consider myself an optimist when it comes to this team. Honestly though, I do wish Favre attended every mini camp. I'm not all flarred up like a pack of hemmorids because of his absence, but him being around these camps would be beneficial from a leadership stand point. Will it have any impact on this season? Probably not, it's very early. Favre will take his leadership role later in the summer. Even if it did matter, would it be Favre's fault, or the Head Coach's for allowing it?

[Harlan Huckleby]

i'm shocked, shocked, shocked that this thread is still going on.

[Murphy37]

i'm shocked, shocked, shocked that this thread is still going on.

Don't be shocked, every piece Vic writes goes platinum. He's like Eminem, Stevie Wonder, Randy Wright, and Ned Beatty rolled into one.

[son of a vic]

The reason this topic keeps it's legs, is because some of us can admit Favre's skills and attitude, are nowhere near what they were in his prime.
He's not going to win games with his arm anymore. He needs to use his experience to his advantage, and make better choices with the rock.
He needs to work even harder now, knowing the talent level around him, is average at best. He doesn't seem like the QB that used to put the team on his back, and did whatever he had to to get a win. It's not just about missing a few days of practice, it's about a pattern of behavior, that exhibits a lack of motivation, to be the best.

[mraynrand]

"It's not just about missing a few days of practice, it's about a pattern of behavior, that exhibits a lack of motivation to be the best."


----

What about the new 'behaviour' last off season (and possibly continued this off-season) of hiring a personal trainer and devoting time to staing in shape?

[son of a vic]

Mentally, I don't think he's in football shape. Physically, he can still get it done, if he doesn't turn the ball over, which reverts back to the metal toughness that he lacked last season.

[Bretsky]

Who really gives a shit?

My thoughts as well

[Bretsky]

Until someone has the stones to challenge King Brett, he will keep stringing us along during the off-season, and underachieving during the regulaR season.


Yes, he's been drastically underachieving the past 3-4 seasons when he missed some of these invaluable minicamps as well :roll: :roll:

[Bretsky]

If Brett told MM he wasn't coming, that is a HUGE deal. That means he's uncoachable and will no doubt throw caution to the wind in the name of gunslingership.


NO; IF MM TOLD BRETT HE WAS NOT EXCUSED, THEN IT'S A PROBLEM

[Bretsky]

i'm shocked, shocked, shocked that this thread is still going on.

Sorry, I had ignored it til after the 24 season finale and am just getting caught up.

[Badgepack]

i'm shocked, shocked, shocked that this thread is still going on.

Don't be shocked, every piece Vic writes goes platinum. He's like Eminem, Stevie Wonder, Randy Wright, and Ned Beatty rolled into one.

Randy Wright? The ex-badger/packer?

[Murphy37]

i'm shocked, shocked, shocked that this thread is still going on.

Don't be shocked, every piece Vic writes goes platinum. He's like Eminem, Stevie Wonder, Randy Wright, and Ned Beatty rolled into one.

Randy Wright? The ex-badger/packer?


Yeah, I'm not sure where I was going with that one, but ya gotta love the Ned Beatty reference. Ned deserves his own thread.

[son of a vic]

The guy that sung the smash hit "Dream Weaver" back in the seventies, was Gary Wright.
Randy Wright also had quite a few hits." Multiple Blind Side Obliteration "
was album of the decade for the 80's.

[swede]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights is the same as a left.

(And don't forget it was two wrights that made an airplane.)

[K-town]

Was it Steven Wright who said: "Sometimes I go off into my own little world. But it's okay, they know me there."

[swede]

Wright again, K-Town!

[Iron Mike]

Yeah, I'm not sure where I was going with that one, but ya gotta love the Ned Beatty reference. Ned deserves his own thread.

Hell, yeah he does!!!

http://www.foogle.biz/deliverance_the_movie/deliverance_pants.jpg

Mountain Man: I'm gonna make you squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!
Bobby: Weee!
Mountain Man: Weeeeeeee!
Bobby: Weee!

[K-town]

The guy that sung the smash hit "Dream Weaver" back in the seventies, was Gary Wright.
Randy Wright also had quite a few hits." Multiple Blind Side Obliteration "
was album of the decade for the 80's.

SOV:
Since we seem to be straying into Randy Wright territory, can you confirm this for me: in 1986, in a game against either New Orleans or Minnesota, isn't it true Randy Wright fainted in the huddle?
For extra bonus points, I believe Scott Mitchell, ex-Lions and Bengal QB, also fainted in the huddle, which is why my buddy Rik calls him "Fainting Goat Boy." I am trying to get a confirmation on this also (haven't found anything on the 'Net yet).

BTW, thanks Swede!

[son of a vic]

I don't recall Randy fainting, but watching him play QB, put me in a clinical coma.
It was probably some kind of "delayed concussionary syndrome" brought on by the six times he got layed out earlier in the game.

[esoxx]

Indeed, Randy Wright fainted in the huddle of a game at the Metrodome in 1986. I believe the Vikings jumped out to something like a 21-0 first quarter lead, aided by a few picks. I'm not sure if his play had anything to do with his syncope episode, or whether he was simply trying to do the Packers a favor by getting himself removed from the game. Questions abound to this day.

[son of a vic]

Wright wasn't anything special, but I do think he would have been an o.k. NFL QB, if he wouldn't have gotten his brains beat in, every other play.
I repond with the notion GBM will accuse me of bumping my thread again.
Maybe I'll get lucky, 'cause she's too busy posting more of those thrilling snapshots of mini-camp action. LMAO

[MJZiggy]

Hey!! Those of us who don't live in GB and can't wander over to watch mini camp actually do appreciate those pictures!!

[son of a vic]

Then you need to find a hobby, if you need to look at pictures of football players walking through a practice in May. I'm sure if you surf the net, you'll find some fine action photos taken by a top notch photographer. Not some star struck female just wanting to see Brett Favre's hinder wiggle.

[MJZiggy]

In case you missed it, Brett wasn't there.

[Harlan Huckleby]

SOV, you're taking on fan photos!? Are people with packer rooms and player jerseys next on the list?

I've enjoyed some of your grumpy posts about Mike Sherman and the Kool Aide drinkers in the past. Going after people in a packer forum for doing fan-things is a little nutty.

But hell, you got to be you! So carry on, my wayward son.

[GrnBay007]

Then you need to find a hobby, if you need to look at pictures of football players walking through a practice in May. I'm sure if you surf the net, you'll find some fine action photos taken by a top notch photographer. Not some star struck female just wanting to see Brett Favre's hinder wiggle.


He's much to firm to wiggle. You must take a closer look SOV!!

[Joemailman]

Then you need to find a hobby, if you need to look at pictures of football players walking through a practice in May. I'm sure if you surf the net, you'll find some fine action photos taken by a top notch photographer. Not some star struck female just wanting to see Brett Favre's hinder wiggle.

In his next episode, SOV yells at kids for writing letters to Santa Claus!

[Badgepack]

How dare GBMichele watse our time by making us look at those pictures of camp when we are starving for Packer news. She probably isn't even a professional photographer. This is an outrage, and she must be stopped.

[Joemailman]

How dare GBMichele watse our time by making us look at those pictures of camp when we are starving for Packer news. She probably isn't even a professional photographer. This is an outrage, and she must be stopped.

Michele=Banned! :twisted:

[MadtownPacker]

Then you need to find a hobby, if you need to look at pictures of football players walking through a practice in May. I'm sure if you surf the net, you'll find some fine action photos taken by a top notch photographer. Not some star struck female just wanting to see Brett Favre's hinder wiggle.
Now, now vicky, no need for a cat fight. :cool:

GBM took those for the PR homepage. They where as good as the ones you will see on just about any other Packers website and she did it without a press pass! She will be providing more as the offseason, preseason, and regular season move along. You will likely check them out just like you did with these.

BTW - Check out her profile page's website link. She actually has a business doing film and video restore.

As for bumping your own thread, well if you hadn't noticed, yours is one of the longest on the front page. Doesnt even need any help. Well done! Did you get my PM?

[son of a vic]

If some of you don't know the history between GBM and myself, it goes something like this--------------I start a thread, she whines about how negative it is to make herself look good for her Packer homies. I then retaliate with a few smart ass comments, and all her Packer homies feel obligated to defend her.
Bring something to the table when you respond to my posts,GBM, otherwise just keep your big fat lense out of the debate.

[GBRulz]

SOV, God forbid if someone has a different opinion than your own. You seem to be able to dish out the sh*t real good, but you can't take it in return. Ya know, i could care less if you disagree with my opinions, but to personally attack me for sharing pics for the website is downright rude.

Here's a thought for that small bump 3 feet above your ass, don't look at them if you don't want to.

I have a better suggestion, since you are all about wanting to look at professional photography, how about going back to JSO and staying there? You can have all the AP stock photos that your small narrowed mind can handle.

[RashanGary]

I, for one, like your pictures Michele. It gives a little insight into how good of condition many of the players are in. Sure, we could wait untill the season starts but for us Packerrats, we'd rather know right now.

I appreciate the pictures. Vikki is just being a prick.

[mraynrand]

If some of you don't know the history between GBM and myself, it goes something like this--------------I start a thread, she whines about how negative it is to make herself look good for her Packer homies. I then retaliate with a few smart ass comments, and all her Packer homies feel obligated to defend her.
Bring something to the table when you respond to my posts,GBM, otherwise just keep your big fat lense out of the debate.

Vic, near as I can tell, GBM, on this thread, only commented that the other guys that were no-shows should have received at least equal treatment as Favre. You never responded. So, perhaps you could bring something to the table instead of smart ass comments.

[Merlin]

I had thought Favre was going to miss 3 of the 18 camps, etc that they Packer's had going on. That's not bad considering some player miss all of them...

[GrnBay007]

I had thought Favre was going to miss 3 of the 18 camps, etc that they Packer's had going on. That's not bad considering some player miss all of them...

Yeah, but you have to remember.......FAVRE sneezed and didn't use a kleenex......another media circus.

[jack's smirking revenge]

GBM, I think your shots of minicamp are bad-ass. I'm really not in the mood to surf the net looking for camp shots. Information overload is easy. Millions of websites, millions of pictures, millions of people calling their shit the best. Well, fly high Michele, because you took some good shots, regardless of what SOV says. On top of that, as you suggested, they are PR exclusives and mean much more than the stock photography on JSO or Packers.com.

If I remember correctly, this is a fan site. Created by fans, for the fans. Thus, fan photos are encouraged and welcomed. Fan participation is encouraged and welcomed.

Anyway, great job Michele....

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

My stance on Brett? Like anyone is going to be able to tell him what to do. He is uncoachable. He's been in the league for over a deacade, been through 5? head coaches, countless QB and offensive coordinators, won Super Bowls, been to Pro Bowls, and is a future lock for the HoF. With all that in mind, he doesn't really need a coach--he needs a guide. He decided to come back to a questionable team. TT and M3 really don't have much control over #4. He does his own thing, regardless of what's right or wrong or best for the team. He's in the twilight of his career and has the experience to know how the NFL works. He also knows that he will be personally accountable if he has another year like last year and I'm sure he doesn't want to face the massive fan and media scrutiny that will follow. He has a legend status to protect...

I suppose it sounds like I'm defending him. Well, I'm really not. I believe leaders lead by example, not by word. (*cue Braveheart*) Favre should be in every camp. His absence probably doesn't hurt, but his participation could instill extra confidence and fire in a team that desperately needs cohesion.

tyler

[GrnBay007]

When Donald Driver was asked the question if Favre was "uncoachable" he laughed and said Brett Favre was the most coachable QB in the NFL. What's Donald missing that the GB fans are more in tune with???

"uncoachable" is such a bad word to use. It means nothing but negative. It leads one to believe the player is unruly and doesn't try to do what's right. Favre has a style......and if you want to say he won't change his style (which he has said) is fine. But to say the guy is uncoachable is so wrong, in my opinion.

[Rastak]

When Donald Driver was asked the question if Favre was "uncoachable" he laughed and said Brett Favre was the most coachable QB in the NFL. What's Donald missing that the GB fans are more in tune with???

"uncoachable" is such a bad word to use. It means nothing but negative. It leads one to believe the player is unruly and doesn't try to do what's right. Favre has a style......and if you want to say he won't change his style (which he has said) is fine. But to say the guy is uncoachable is so wrong, in my opinion.


Actually wasn't that William Henderson that said that during the draft?

[Scott Campbell]

I find it reprehensible the way you people pick fights with Vic.

[Murphy37]

Damm this thread has legs. Nice work. Now you two kids who are having a slap fight, GBM and SOV, just calm down and take some deep breaths. Your'e both great for this forum. I got no probs with the photo's, and if Vic does who cares? Victor is a villain, and a damn good one. He brings up the topics that stir things up. If ya ain't got the thick skin to tangle with him, stay outta his threads. Vic, you really dissapointed me. You started a fight over photos? That's weak teenage girl bullshit. You're better than that. Now both of you go back to your corners and don't come back untill you learned your lessons. :D

[jack's smirking revenge]

When Donald Driver was asked the question if Favre was "uncoachable" he laughed and said Brett Favre was the most coachable QB in the NFL. What's Donald missing that the GB fans are more in tune with???

"uncoachable" is such a bad word to use. It means nothing but negative. It leads one to believe the player is unruly and doesn't try to do what's right. Favre has a style......and if you want to say he won't change his style (which he has said) is fine. But to say the guy is uncoachable is so wrong, in my opinion.

I see your point and I partially agree. Uncoachable is a difficult word to use with Brett...or with any player at his stage of the game. Once a player has been in the league for ten or more years and is on the path to the HoF, there's little more they can learn. Perhaps we should consider what it means to "coach". Dictionary.com says coaching is "To train or tutor or to act as a trainer or tutor". Well, if Favre won't change his style, which is done through training, then how is he being "coached"? If anything, he is being guided through the implementation of new offensive schemes and with the integration of new players.

Perhaps being "uncoachable" isn't fully negative. Once someone is an expert at a trade or a skill, they no longer need training to do a job or to perform. Sure, Favre can take criticism and suggestions, and he will incorporate them if he sees fit, but he's Brett Favre. He's truly not going to change his style. He's a gunslinger. He's a risk-taker. He's a warrior. He's not going to change his throwing motion. He's not going to stray from throwing the INT. At this age, he's not going to change how he reacts to pressure. He's probably not going to read a defense any differently. His experience and the coaching of his past has made him the player he is today.

So, if he's unwilling to change his "style", which is really an ambiguous term that covers a lot of ground with respect to training, how is he coachable? Any QB can read a team's assessment of the defense they're going to face. Armchair QBs--like you and me--know the strengths of every defense in the NFL. With all of the media coverage and information, there aren't many secrets in the NFL.

I guess the question comes down to "what is there left to coach Brett on"?

tyler

[GrnBay007]

When Donald Driver was asked the question if Favre was "uncoachable" he laughed and said Brett Favre was the most coachable QB in the NFL. What's Donald missing that the GB fans are more in tune with???

"uncoachable" is such a bad word to use. It means nothing but negative. It leads one to believe the player is unruly and doesn't try to do what's right. Favre has a style......and if you want to say he won't change his style (which he has said) is fine. But to say the guy is uncoachable is so wrong, in my opinion.


Actually wasn't that William Henderson that said that during the draft?

I think you are right Rastak......Henderson, when he owned ESPN reporters...lol .....another of my heroes!! :razz:

[GrnBay007]

I find it reprehensible the way you people pick fights with Vic.

LOL Pot, meet kettle. :razz:

[Badgepack]

I thought this was a Randy Wright thread? :D

[MJZiggy]

I thought it was Gary Wright. Now I can't get that song outta my head.

[son of a vic]

Where do I begin. I'm supposed to respond to GBM, when she doesn't even address the topic at hand. I recall the topic being Favre should have been at camp. She wants to know why I'm not questioning why some other players weren't there. Simple, because Brett is the Green Bay Packers right now. With all the turmoil and change going on, he is the one thing that should be a sure thing. But it's not ,because of his off-season yo-yo fest.
If I start a topic in the fall about a Packer loss, is GBM going to bust my balls because I'm not talking about one of the other 14 teams that lost that week? Get a grip woman. If you want to bash my threads, go right ahead, but don't complain when I do the same. If my memory is correct, YOU are the one that started this little skirmish, so don't act like you are the innocent little girl, who I like to pick on. You like to take pictures, great.
I like to discuss real issues with this football team. You do your thing, and I'll do mine. Good luck, and good riddance!

[Murphy37]

Hey Vic, I like to take pictures, what do you say you come over later? Are you into glamour shots? VIC AT NIGHT IS BACK YALL

[son of a vic]

My beloved says I need to practice my jump shot a little more often.

Looks like shutterbug is hidin' under the rug. No sweat, stay focused on your "Packer in baggy shorts" photo shoot. You keep up the good work.

[Murphy37]

I sense some sexual tension between you two. I bet it would be magic between the sheets.

Speaking of Sheets, he's turning into KerryWood. Fragile, very Fragile.

[son of a vic]

I'd dedicate my life to the priesthood, in hopes of getting the Pope to declare Rickie Week's glove, the holiest earthly possesion on the face of god's earth, before I'd saddle up that pony.