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The Leaper
01-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Here is my early analysis of the 2007 Packer Roster going into the off-season. Feel free to add your thoughts.

BLUE CHIP – Player is among the best in the league at his position (top 2-3)
RED CHIP – Player has Pro Bowl caliber talent on a consistent basis (top 8)
WHITE CHIP – Player has the talent to be considered a reliable starter (top 16)
GREEN CHIP – Player might have talent to start, but is inconsistent or inexperienced
YELLOW CHIP – Player should never be considered more than a reserve player

(+) – Player is close to moving up a tier, usually due to upside potential/opportunity
(–) – Player is close to moving down a tier, usually due to age/injury

QB
Brett Favre: RED CHIP
Aaron Rodgers: GREEN CHIP +
Craig Nall: YELLOW CHIP

Favre had an excellent 2007 season. His physical skills remain strong outside of his mobility. His leadership and knowledge were important to a team with a relatively inexperienced set of players at the skill positions. Age is a concern, but there is little at this point to suggest his skills are suddenly going to erode drastically in 2008. Rodgers showed potential in limited action during 2007. He doesn’t possess great arm strength, but his accuracy is very good and he has sneaky good athleticism and mobility. Nall probably won’t be back. As long as Favre returns, there won’t be any change at the top 2 spots…and a second day draft pick will probably assume the #3 spot.

RB
Ryan Grant: WHITE CHIP + +
Brandon Jackson: GREEN CHIP +
Vernand Morency: GREEN CHIP
Deshawn Wynn: YELLOW CHIP

Grant took over the starting RB position halfway into 2007 and immediately made an impact. His running style suits the ZBS, and he has deceptive speed and strength as a runner. He was a Pro Bowl caliber runner in the second half of 2007, but he still needs work in several areas…namely blocking and receiving. I expect him to do just that and become a red chip caliber player during 2008. Jackson was abysmal early in the year, but had a few flashes late that give him something to build on in the off-season. Morency really has struggled to remain healthy, and really hasn’t distinguished himself as anything other than a halfway reliable pass blocker. He probably won’t be back in 2008. Wynn really did not do anything to show that he was worth more than a 7th round draft pick. Depth is a concern at this position, and I would expect Thompson to address it in the draft.

FB
John Kuhn: GREEN CHIP +
Korey Hall: GREEN CHIP +

Both Kuhn and Hall had their moments in 2007. Both guys seem to relish the role of a lead blocker, but their inexperience caused inconsistent play during most of the year. Both are young guys with lots of room for growth, and there is no reason to think that at least one of them won’t develop into a very reliable starter over the next few years. Both need to work hard on their development as a receiving threat in the offseason. With both showing good progress in 2007, there isn’t much priority on improving this spot during the off-season.

WR
Donald Driver: RED CHIP
Greg Jennings: RED CHIP
James Jones: GREEN CHIP +
Koren Robinson: GREEN CHIP +
Ruvell Martin: GREEN CHIP

Driver and Jennings both had excellent seasons in 2007. Neither has commanding size or speed, but both have incredible agility and field awareness. This makes them both incredibly dangerous after the catch. Driver’s age should not be viewed as a factor yet, but he probably has no more than 2-3 seasons left in him as a dynamic starter. Jones showed great hands, but was also extremely inconsistent and seemed to hit the wall late in the year. If he can take just half of the step forward that Jennings did this year, he could be viewed as a reliable starter in 2008. Robinson has talent, but the year off certainly affected his ability to contribute. With a full off-season schedule and training camp, he will push Jones for the #3 spot in 2008. Martin remains an enigma…making highlight reel catches on occasion, but he is too inconsistent to be considered starting material at this time. Position is probably the deepest on the team, and no changes are expected in 2008.

TE
Donald Lee: GREEN CHIP +
Bubba Franks: GREEN CHIP
Ryan Krause: YELLOW CHIP

Lee showed signs of being a capable receiver from the TE spot and looked more comfortable in the offense this year. Franks no longer is a consistent player, but his above average blocking skills remain useful and he knows how to get open in zone coverage inside the 10 yard line. Krause is a reserve player. Even though Lee has showed some promise, the Packers certainly should not pass over a chance to upgrade the receiving ability from this position in the off-season.

OT
Chad Clifton: RED CHIP –
Mark Tauscher: RED CHIP –
Tony Moll: GREEN CHIP +
Orrin Thompson: YELLOW CHIP

Clifton and Tauscher still play at a high level when they are at 100%. The problem is that their advanced age makes them more prone to nagging injuries that reduce their quickness and effectiveness. It is getting to the point where you really can’t count on either guy to last for all 16 games in a season, so depth is going to be a priority at this position in 2008. Moll has showed some signs that he could be an effective starting RT. This is an important off-season for Moll in terms of increasing his conditioning and strength...which could cause the Packer coaches to think about moving Tauscher to RG to shore up the interior OL and lengthen his career. Developing successors to CC and MT is a priority in 2008.

OG
Jason Spitz: WHITE CHIP
Daryn Colledge: GREEN CHIP
Allen Barbre: YELLOW CHIP +
Junius Coston: YELLOW CHIP +

This is the most maligned group in the Packer organization. Spitz is the best of the bunch, and he is merely adequate. Colledge has the tools but is terribly inconsistent and gets dominated a lot by the more talented DTs in the league…which Green Bay seems to face on a regular basis. Barbre and Coston have shown flashes of potential, but haven’t been able to stay healthy enough to show their true worth. Thompson has to view this position as one that needs a major upgrade going into 2008. Expect either a major roster shake-up (Tauscher to RG) or a free agent OG signing to get some needed experience in the middle of the OL. I wouldn't put it past Thompson to also draft additional OG help.

C
Scott Wells: WHITE CHIP

Wells is a reliable starter, but he is undersized and struggles against bulky DTs. He will probably never get much better than he is right now…probably not a great sign from a guy who still is relatively young. If the OG situation wasn’t as dire, he would probably be OK as the weak link of the OL. However, the lack of consistency around him makes his own shortcomings even more magnified. Thompson seems to be comfortable with Wells though, as he hasn’t really brought in anyone in the last few years who could seriously challenge him as a starting caliber prospect.

DE
Aaron Kampman: RED CHIP
Cullen Jenkins: WHITE CHIP
KGB: WHITE CHIP –
Corey Williams: GREEN CHIP +
Mike Montgomery: YELLOW CHIP +

Kampman is an excellent DE who is one of the 5 best in the game. If any player on the Packer squad deserves consideration for a blue chip, Kampman is the guy IMO. He has above average physical ability and off-the-charts determination and drive, but he was overworked in 2007 and wore down in December/January. Jenkins was a guy with great promise coming into the season, but injuries slowed him early in the year and he never became an impact player. Williams is a guy who flashes greatness occasionally, but will disappear for games at a time as well. KGB is solid in his role as a situational pass rusher, but he relies greatly on speed that will decline rapidly over the next few years. He likely will need to accept a pay cut to remain in Green Bay going forward if Thompson becomes more aggressive in FA, which I think he would accomodate. Montgomery showed more in 2007 than he had previously, and is a very adequate reserve. If KGB and Williams stay in Green Bay, the position is relatively set for 2008 although finding a pass rush replacement for KGB (who can also spell Kampman) should be a priority.

DT
Ryan Pickett: RED CHIP
Johnny Jolly: WHITE CHIP
Justin Harrell: GREEN CHIP +
Colin Cole: GREEN CHIP +
Daniel Muir: YELLOW CHIP

Pickett is one of the premier run stuffers in the NFC. He is as reliable as they come, and young enough to remain effective for several more years. Jolly showed tremendous promise early in the year before injuries placed him on IR. He showed good push in collapsing the pocket and was uncanny in his ability to disrupt passing lanes when he was held up. Cole showed upside as well before injury slowed him. Harrell was slow in getting up to speed after basically taking a year off of football, but when he got playing time at year end he showed why his massive frame could be a real factor in a few years when he gains more experience and strength. Muir might be a good prospect, but he is hopelessly lost in the Packers deepest position on defense. Positioned strongly for 2008.

LB
Nick Barnett: RED CHIP
AJ Hawk: WHITE CHIP +
Brady Poppinga: GREEN CHIP
Desmond Bishop: YELLOW CHIP
Tracy White: YELLOW CHIP
Abdul Hodge: YELLOW CHIP

Nick Barnett established himself as one of the better MLBs in the league this season, rebounding from a subpar 2006. He still can disappear in certain games, which is why he can’t be viewed as a blue chip player at this time. Hawk has had some difficulty transitioning to the NFL game, but he showed great improvement in coverage during the year and started to make more plays behind the LOS near the end of the year. Poppinga tends to over-pursue against the run, and struggles greatly in pass coverage. He plays his best against physical OLs and RBs that try to run over you rather than around you. The rest of the LBs really haven’t shown much of anything outside of special teams. Depth should be a large concern at LB for 2008.

CB
Charles Woodson: RED CHIP
Al Harris: RED CHIP –
Tramon Williams: GREEN CHIP
Jarrett Bush: GREEN CHIP
Will Blackmon: GREEN CHIP

Woodson had a great 2007, especially when you consider he was battling injuries the entire second half of the season. He is a Pro Bowl caliber player even if he hasn’t been recognized as one the last two years when he was clearly deserving of it. Harris played pretty well, but he struggles against big, physical WRs and allows himself to get distracted by trash talking. He’s getting a long overdue trip to the Pro Bowl, but he is on the verge of becoming more of an average player due to age. Williams, Bush and Blackmon each have held their own as reserves from time to time, but none really can be counted on as reliable starters yet. Depth is a major concern here. Expect to see a first day draft pick used on a CB or a major FA signing.

S
Atari Bigby: WHITE CHIP
Nick Collins: WHITE CHIP –
Aaron Rouse: GREEN CHIP
Charlie Peprah: YELLOW CHIP
Tyrone Culver: YELLOW CHIP

Bigby was the most surprising defensive player for the Packers in 2007. His inexperience caused inconsistent play in the first half of the year, but Bigby raised his level of play in the last month of the regular season and continued to gain confidence in the post season. While he remains a liability in coverage, he is a feared in-the-box safety capable of delivering big hits in run support and on pass plays over the short middle and in the flat. Collins was almost invisible in 2007, and seemed to regress somewhat. Rouse seems to have instincts to make plays, but was too inconsistent to use full-time in 2007. He has the potential to be a starter, and will push Collins for playing time in 2008. Peprah and Culver have not showed enough consistency to be anything but reserves at this time, but both are young and have potential to develop quickly. With all the young talent in place, this could be a position where Thompson looks to improve through free agency for experience in the off-season.

K
Mason Crosby: WHITE CHIP +
Jon Ryan: GREEN CHIP +

Crosby had a fabulous rookie season, leading the NFL in points scored. He missed a few kicks he probably should have made, but he was money inside of 40 yards and nailed two difficult kicks in the NFCC game that will boost his confidence going into 2008. He has the talent to be a Pro Bowl caliber kicker for a long time in this league. Ryan continues to show inconsistency, although I thought he did show improvement overall in 2007. He had a horrific game against Chicago, and has been mediocre often in poor weather conditions. As a punter in Green Bay, he needs to strengthen that aspect of his game. I don’t expect any turnover here, although a couple camp legs will be brought in to keep both on top of their game.

2007 Starting Offense:

0 – BLUE CHIPS
5 – RED CHIPS (2 declining)
3 – WHITE CHIPS (1 very promising)
3 – GREEN CHIPS (2 promising)

Weakest Link(s): Daryn Colledge
Strongest Link(s): Brett Favre, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings

2007 Starting Defense:

0 – BLUE CHIPS
5 – RED CHIPS (1 declining)
5 – WHITE CHIPS (1 promising, 1 declining)
1 – GREEN CHIPS

Weakest Link(s): Brady Poppinga
Strongest Link(s): Aaron Kampman

Positions where off-season upgrades are critical for team improvement:

1. OG
2. S
3. CB
4. LB
5. DE

Positions set up the best for continued success in 2008 and 2009:

1. WR
2. DT
3. K
4. FB
5. QB (assuming Favre returns)

Jerry Tagge
01-22-2008, 04:40 PM
I give Favre a blue chip. Only Brady put up better numbers.

Favre did more with less talent than Brady.

But that's my opinion.

PaCkFan_n_MD
01-22-2008, 04:46 PM
I think Barbre has a chance to be more than a yellow chip, I have heard that the coaches like what they have seen from him. I believe that he will be a factor in training camp.

The Leaper
01-22-2008, 04:47 PM
I think Barbre has a chance to be more than a yellow chip, I have heard that the coaches like what they have seen from him. I believe that he will be a factor in training camp.

Yeah, I gave him a plus...I think he can be more, we just haven't been able to see anything concrete yet.

PaCkFan_n_MD
01-22-2008, 04:57 PM
I think Barbre has a chance to be more than a yellow chip, I have heard that the coaches like what they have seen from him. I believe that he will be a factor in training camp.

Yeah, I gave him a plus...I think he can be more, we just haven't been able to see anything concrete yet.

Thats true. I just about agree with everything you wrote except I'm not as high as you are with Jenkins. I really don't think he had a good year and am hoping we address DE in the draft. We need a more consistent end like Kampman who can play the run and the pass equally well. I hate when the team we face passes on 1st down and I see Jenkins in the game. He played the run good, but if we can upgrade I think we should.

MJZiggy
01-22-2008, 05:00 PM
Hey, PaCkfan, Check your messages...

BallHawk
01-22-2008, 05:01 PM
I give Favre a blue chip. Only Brady put up better numbers.

Favre did more with less talent than Brady.

But that's my opinion.

Agreed. His performance on Sunday doesn't change the fact that he was one of the best QBs in the NFL this year. Only Manning and Brady are better QBs than him. I'd still take Favre over Romo, though it is extremely close.

mmmdk
01-22-2008, 05:29 PM
Good report.

Donald Lee is white chip in my book though and Al Harris is declining faster than what most think.

Packers overachieved but I still think they should've gone to the SB - the path doesn't get easier next season 'cos now teams have a scouting report on how to beat the Packers.

The Leaper
01-22-2008, 05:42 PM
I can see the argument that Favre remains the 3rd best QB in the league right now...but I can also see the argument that he is the 8th or 10th best QB.

I just think there is a considerable dropoff right now between Brady/Peyton and everyone else. Those guys are the only blue chip QBs in the league right now IMO.

Personally, it would be extremely difficult for me to say any 38 year old player is a blue chip guy in a sport like football, which is clearly slanted toward the younger athletes.

The Leaper
01-22-2008, 05:53 PM
Donald Lee is white chip in my book though and Al Harris is declining faster than what most think.

He was a tough guy to grade.

Lee caught a lot of balls in 2007. He generally had a very good season.

However, some stats jumped out at me. He wasn't very active in the red zone...only catching 7 balls when the team was in the red zone all year. He also tailed off notably at the end of the year, grabbing a mere 10 catches over his last 5 games played. He wasn't very active in the postseason either.

Toss on top of that the fact he's a mediocre blocker.

I think he's close to being a white chip guy, but I want to see a little more of it from him before I give it to him.

I also forgot to give Bubba a minus mark. He's a green minus...not a straight green.

Bretsky
01-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Colledge was a disaster Sunday; I'm way off his wagon.

Lurker64
01-22-2008, 08:23 PM
I think Barbre has a chance to be more than a yellow chip, I have heard that the coaches like what they have seen from him. I believe that he will be a factor in training camp.

Yeah, I gave him a plus...I think he can be more, we just haven't been able to see anything concrete yet.

He was a later round draft OL pick out of a Division II school. Those guys virtually never show anything in their first year and generally not much in their second year. Right now he's nothing better than a backup, but the way you phrase the yellow chip description as "Player should never be considered more than a reserve player" seems to imply that you're setting a cap on his ceiling as a player. Barbre certainly wasn't anything more than a backup this year and probably won't be anything more than that next year, but if he puts it together he could potentially be a fine player. There were a few plays when he was in where he absolutely mauled somebody, and other plays where you weren't sure he understood what "blocking assignments" meant. I think it's too early to really comment on his ceiling as a player.

If nothing else you should try to say something about the scope of your rankings. It sounds like a player can move up and down amongst blue, red, white, and green rankings but it sounds like you're saying that the we've seen the ceiling for the yellow chips and it is not good.

BallHawk
01-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Colledge was a disaster Sunday; I'm way off his wagon.

Don't think anybody was ever on his wagon, but I'm not giving up on him. He has shown the talent, now he just needs to show consistency.

Deputy Nutz
01-22-2008, 09:19 PM
Colledge was a disaster Sunday; I'm way off his wagon.

I don't think he played great on Sunday, and I don't think the transition to guard has been very easy for him. I think he still has a lot of potential physically, but I think he isn't the quickest learner and his attitude can stink. He had to have his butt chewed out in practice two weeks ago. He is a guy that simply needs to mature as a football player.

RashanGary
01-22-2008, 10:16 PM
I think Patler always makes good points on the guard issue. Rivera and Wahle sucked at this point in their careers. Will Spitz, Colledge, Coston Barbre, or Moll pan out? Who the hell knows, but it's too early for all of them to say we have to desperately search else where. I'd say Colledge and Spitz in their third year is a hell of a lot better than Whittaker and and whatever his name was of three years ago.

Is it a GREAT position? Hell no. Will it be? Probably not, but you never know how good some of these guys will be. Ted should keep looking for guards, tackles, DE's, Safety's, recievers, running backs, fullbacks, tight ends, quarterbacks, punters, kickers, corner backs, defensive tackles and whoever the hell else can make an impact of the field. This team can never have enough talent. I don't think the position is bad enough to go freak out and give up 10% of our recources to fill. Just keep making good decisions and over time I think it will work out. Desperation is emotion that leads to the most bad decisisons IMO. Just stay calm and do the best you can every off season. It will add up. Don't get desperate and try to force what is not there. Every action has a reaction because of the cap. You just have to keep chugging and plugging.

Bretsky
01-22-2008, 10:19 PM
I think Patler always makes good points on the guard issue. Rivera and Wahle sucked at this point in their careers. Will Spitz, Colledge, Coston Barbre, or Moll pan out? Who the hell knows, but it's too early for all of them to say we have to desperately search else where. I'd say Colledge and Spitz in their third year is a hell of a lot better than Whittaker and and whatever his name was of three years ago.

Is it a GREAT position? Hell no. Will it be? Probably not, but you never know how good some of these guys will be. Ted should keep looking for guards, tackles, DE's, Safety's, recievers, running backs, fullbacks, tight ends, quarterbacks, punters, kickers, corner backs, defensive tackles and whoever the hell else can make an impact of the field. This team can never have enough talent. I don't think the position is bad enough to go freak out and give up 10% of our recources. Just keep making good decisions and over time I think it will work out best.


The question becomes whether we wait to see if they will develop while on the job or while learning as backups. TT has not had enough time to do so, but the one thing Wolf did well was having the starters ready to go when one went out the door.

I think TT has did a good job at that with the DL; but one has to question how starter capable these OG's are and how soon they might become at least average enough not to get dominated in key games.

RashanGary
01-22-2008, 10:24 PM
I know the urge is to panic, Bretsky. I know you want to just go out and fix it right now. Hell, every team should just do that and we'll have 32 superbowl winners.

I think great teams are built over time, not over night. Just keep chugging, getting better whenever you can in the enviorment that they do buisness.

If a great guard or a good guard is available in such a way that it helps more than it hurts than I would hope Ted takes advantage of it and by all accounts he does that.

There is no amount of anxiety or panic that is going to fix our problems, the same way they won't fix all of Pittsburghs, INdy's, Cincy's or Tampa's. Just chill out, and let Ted work his magic. No need to have another miserable off season becuase you think you know what the team needs and you can't trust a guy getting paid millions to do the job for you.

The Leaper
01-23-2008, 09:15 AM
Right now he's nothing better than a backup, but the way you phrase the yellow chip description as "Player should never be considered more than a reserve player" seems to imply that you're setting a cap on his ceiling as a player.

The rankings are as of this season...and at this point, he should not be considered anything more than a reserve.

The chip level isn't a prediction of the future, so it shouldn't be seen as a cap on his ceiling.

Carolina_Packer
01-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Strange to see that you have Corey Williams as a green chip, meaning the potential to start, when he was our starter, and with the heavy rotation, it's not really about who starts anyway. A green chip and the guy is probably going to get a nice looking contract offer from someone. I would give him at least a white chip from what he has proven.

mmmdk
01-23-2008, 11:08 AM
Donald Lee is white chip in my book though and Al Harris is declining faster than what most think.

He was a tough guy to grade.

Lee caught a lot of balls in 2007. He generally had a very good season.

However, some stats jumped out at me. He wasn't very active in the red zone...only catching 7 balls when the team was in the red zone all year. He also tailed off notably at the end of the year, grabbing a mere 10 catches over his last 5 games played. He wasn't very active in the postseason either.

Toss on top of that the fact he's a mediocre blocker.

I think he's close to being a white chip guy, but I want to see a little more of it from him before I give it to him.

I also forgot to give Bubba a minus mark. He's a green minus...not a straight green.

True; I want the Packers run better in the red zone next season. Pound the rock more and score 17-22 rushing TDs for the season. Interior OL needs major help to achieve that.

More play makers on D too which could come from current roster, the draft and a free agent or two.

The Leaper
01-23-2008, 12:34 PM
Strange to see that you have Corey Williams as a green chip, meaning the potential to start, when he was our starter, and with the heavy rotation, it's not really about who starts anyway.

I'm not sure Williams would've seen as much action if Jolly/Cole/Jenkins had been healthy during the year.

Williams has potential to start IMO. Occasionally, he turned in a big performance. More often than not, he was invisible.

He played big against KC (very weak OL) and Carolina (weak OL) this year. Outside of those 2 games, he did very little to support your notion that he is a "reliable" starter...or white chip.