DE wanted

[b bulldog]

The Packers really need to find a every down DE who can start oppositte Kampy, be tough against the run and can provide a constant threat as a passrusher. Jenkins could than be a rotation guy inside or out and we could part ways with 99 and possibly KGB. I'd love to see TT swing a trade for Jarred Allen. The Chiefs will most likely tag him but I wouldn't mind seeing TT trade our number one and possibly KGB or Collins or one of our WR's for Allen. KC is a notoriously cheap organization and maybe something could be worked out. The best thing a D can have is a passrush in today's NFL that strongly favors the offense.

[Bretsky]

The Giants have showed us how two All Pro DE's can change games. They dominated against Dallas and MM decided to Max protect to help out against them and whoever Colledge had to block

[b bulldog]

Exactly what I was thinking B

[CaliforniaCheez]

During the the Giant playoff game I kept wanting to see a good play (you know, a sack or tackle for a loss) from one of the Packer's DE's.

It never occurred.

[RashanGary]

I'm not ready to sell the farm for one player and Collins or KGB and a late #1 isn't the farm. I'd gladly do that, but KC would be absolutely idiotic to do something like that. The only way we could get Allen would be Jennings and a #1 or maybe even more than that. Allen is a stud. I'd love to have him but it's just not going to happen.


Jenkins was knicked up all year. He's a good run stopper at DE and a decent pass rusher at DT. KGB is a good pass rushing DE and should still be effective for one more year. Kamp is a probowler and Montgomery is coming on. I'm not saying I don't want Allen, but for the young players we'd have to give up, I'm not so sure it's worth it.

[BallHawk]

Jared Allen is just a pipe dream, but realistically I think we have a few options at DE.

Mike Rucker(CAR) is older, but he's still affective and would be a good player for a good price. He's still considering retirement, but if he comes back and is willing to go to a contender I think he'd be a good fit. He fits under the mold of a "Packer Person."

Ebenezer Ekuban(DEN) is another older guy that I'd like. He didn't play this season due to a torn ACL, but he's a proven guy that can get to the QB.

Bobby McCray(JAX) Didn't have a great year, but in 2006 he played great having 10 sacks. Not that it's matters, but it was Bobby that caused sacked and caused the Roethlisberger fumble at the end of the JAX/PIT Wild Card game this year. I'd actually really like TT to sign this guy. Big guy, 6'6, 260 pounds.

Marques Douglas(SF) wouldn't be a bad pickup. Doesn't get to the QB like other guys, but he's a great tackler.

Justin Smith(CIN) would be a nice pickup. Two white guys with similar facial hair would be a nice touch for our DL. Had a great 2006, not as great in 2007, but I'd still love him as a Packer.

[Bretsky]

Jared Allen is just a pipe dream, but realistically I think we have a few options at DE.

Mike Rucker(CAR) is older, but he's still affective and would be a good player for a good price. He's still considering retirement, but if he comes back and is willing to go to a contender I think he'd be a good fit. He fits under the mold of a "Packer Person."

Ebenezer Ekuban(DEN) is another older guy that I'd like. He didn't play this season due to a torn ACL, but he's a proven guy that can get to the QB.

Bobby McCray(JAX) Didn't have a great year, but in 2006 he played great having 10 sacks. Not that it's matters, but it was Bobby that caused sacked and caused the Roethlisberger fumble at the end of the JAX/PIT Wild Card game this year. I'd actually really like TT to sign this guy. Big guy, 6'6, 260 pounds.

Marques Douglas(SF) wouldn't be a bad pickup. Doesn't get to the QB like other guys, but he's a great tackler.

Justin Smith(CIN) would be a nice pickup. Two white guys with similar facial hair would be a nice touch for our DL. Had a great 2006, not as great in 2007, but I'd still love him as a Packer.


Justin Smith might be decent; not really sure how much the other guys help us. Can we draft any of these are are you guys talking free agency :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jenkins seems to be a bit of an overachiever. He's quick, has a good motor. He's kinda stubby for defensive end. HE's more of a rotation guy.

[Bretsky]

Jenkins seems to be a bit of an overachiever. He's quick, has a good motor. He's kinda stubby for defensive end. HE's more of a rotation guy.


I considered him an overachiever until he signed for 4MIL per year. Now I expect better results and further development.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Jenkins seems to be a bit of an overachiever. He's quick, has a good motor. He's kinda stubby for defensive end. HE's more of a rotation guy.


I considered him an overachiever until he signed for 4MIL per year. Now I expect better results and further development.

Exactly. Jenkins disappointed me a lot this year.

[b bulldog]

Allen may be a pipe dream but you never know. They will most likely tag him and than that may be interesting.

[b bulldog]

I have absolutely no confidence in our Dline being able to put pressure on the elite teams QB's.

[b bulldog]

You all are goona throw your lunch up at this but I'd love to give Shawn Rodgers a chance. One year deal for 4-5mil, if he could be coached up, he would be the best DT in the game.

[b bulldog]

Imagine Pickett and Rodgers at DT! I doubt anyone would be able to run inside :lol:

[Lurker64]

You all are goona throw your lunch up at this but I'd love to give Shawn Rodgers a chance. One year deal for 4-5mil, if he could be coached up, he would be the best DT in the game.

We also have the rotation where he wouldn't need to be on the field more than the 20 plays his conditioning allows.

[Deputy Nutz]

Jenkins seems to be a bit of an overachiever. He's quick, has a good motor. He's kinda stubby for defensive end. HE's more of a rotation guy.


I considered him an overachiever until he signed for 4MIL per year. Now I expect better results and further development.

I think he is still a steal at 4 million a year. Hell, Eric Gagne is making ten million.

Anyways, a pass rush is a big need especially in the second half the season. Kampman really broke down, and I would think getting another solid backup for him is important. It is silly to bring Kampman off the field for someone like Montgomery, but Kampy can't be productive an entire season unless his snap total gets brought down.

Jenkins and KGB are ok on the right side, but reality you need four decent to good defensive ends.

Offensive linemen have gotten so big and athletic that defenses are going to have problems just brining four guys consistently. The Packers need to do a better job at using stunts, disguising blitzes, and overall creating pressure not only from the front four, but from the entire defense.

[b bulldog]

OK doesn't get the job done, we need to be better than OK opposite 74

[Carolina_Packer]

Is Jared Allen a good run stopper?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jenkins was crushed by injuries this year. I think he'll rebound next year--if he can stay healthy.

[BallHawk]

Jenkins was crushed by injuries this year. I think he'll rebound next year--if he can stay healthy.

Agreed.

[RashanGary]

Just keep aquiring extra picks and keep taking the BPA and as time goes by the team will continue to steam role talent at all positions.

If something good is available (Shawn Rodgers is a good example) then I'm all for it. I'd much rather give Rodgers a good sized contract than Williams. If something is not available that really makes sense than keep accumulating talent and making good decisisions. They will add up. I'm not ready for the off season desperation just yet.

[Joemailman]

Top free agent defensive linemen according to Football's Future:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

[twoseven]

I don't know what kind of bread KC has left in the hopper after re-upping Tony Gonzalez and Larry Johnson last offseason. I do know they regretted getting LJ into camp so late, so what are the odds Jared sees FA without getting the full franchise tag?

Giving up a 1st and 3rd round pick AND having to sign Allen to a charitable contract seems a pretty steep price, considering TT. With only 25 mil in cap, a few soon to be expiring GBP contracts to mull over, and possibly a decent CB in the first round and BPA in the third, it's hard to see giving up so much for one player.

I'm confused on the talk of a #1 and a player? What's that exactly? I thought either type of franchise tag only involved picks.

[twoseven]

Just keep aquiring extra picks and keep taking the BPA and as time goes by the team will continue to steam role talent at all positions.
At this point with our team so young, which 6-8 guys are we cutting to make room for our 6-8 08' draft picks? Is this easily done, is this a wise decision, are we potentially in a position to trade up rather than shuffle at the bottom of the pile tossing away some picks from the last couple of seasons?

[the_idle_threat]

Mike Rucker(CAR) is older, but he's still affective and would be a good player for a good price. He's still considering retirement, but if he comes back and is willing to go to a contender I think he'd be a good fit. He fits under the mold of a "Packer Person."

Ebenezer Ekuban(DEN) is another older guy that I'd like. He didn't play this season due to a torn ACL, but he's a proven guy that can get to the QB.

Bobby McCray(JAX) Didn't have a great year, but in 2006 he played great having 10 sacks. Not that it's matters, but it was Bobby that caused sacked and caused the Roethlisberger fumble at the end of the JAX/PIT Wild Card game this year. I'd actually really like TT to sign this guy. Big guy, 6'6, 260 pounds.

Marques Douglas(SF) wouldn't be a bad pickup. Doesn't get to the QB like other guys, but he's a great tackler.

Justin Smith(CIN) would be a nice pickup. Two white guys with similar facial hair would be a nice touch for our DL. Had a great 2006, not as great in 2007, but I'd still love him as a Packer.

As down as everybody is on Jenkins given the circumstances, I think he's better than all of these guys. I agree with Harv that he was nicked up and had a down year. Everyone who says he can't bring any pass rush is forgetting how good he was in previous seasons and in this preseason this year. Durability is a concern, though, and I do agree that more depth is needed so that both he and Kampy can rotate out more often for a breather.

[Carolina_Packer]

If you let Corey Williams walk, you could sign Albert Haynesworth. Can you imagine him and Ryan Pickett together? Then when Pickett got too old you'd have Jolly. Still, it would make for a strong rotation. OK, why don't we just sign Jared Allen and Albert Haynesworth and let Williams walk. Problem solved! Was that so hard? :-)

[LL2]

I'd love to see Allen in GB, but I agree it's not likely to happen. TT does need to be more agressive this offseason. Building up the defense and OL needs to be a priority.

I wonder if Favre is debating whether or not to come back based on what TT does this offseason. Last year he was pissed TT didn't get Moss or any weapons, but bought into the program. He might be thinking that the team is close to winning it all, but we still need a few playmakers.

[mmmdk]

The Giants have showed us how two All Pro DE's can change games. They dominated against Dallas and MM decided to Max protect to help out against them and whoever Colledge had to block

Spot on! I just do not agree with max protection especially when you have QBs (Favre/Rodgers) with quick releases plus speedy receivers. Try beat the pass rush with quick slants, TEs over the middle and what not. Max protection sucks and is a losers game.

[Carolina_Packer]

Sometimes you can fix things through the continued development of the players you already have, which is obviously what happened between last offseason and the 2007 season where we only acquired Frank Walker in free agency. That said, some fire under their asses with competition would be nice. I don't know who to go get. We can certainly do better than Adrian Klemm, but don't have to break the bank either. If Colledge is playing out of position, then sit his bottom down and let him play behind Cliff or Tausch until they hang it up or get too expensive. The guard situation has to be addressed once and for all.

Favre has weapons and we have a running back. We need a line that can consistently produce the type of performances like you saw from Ryan Grant against Seattle. I'm not saying he'll always get that much yardage, but he had space and was running down hill. We gotta get there. You saw what the lack of committment to the run was like on Sunday night. It cost the game and gassed our defense. Fix the O-line TT and MM.

[mmmdk]

Sometimes you can fix things through the continued development of the players you already have, which is obviously what happened between last offseason and the 2007 season where we only acquired Frank Walker in free agency. That said, some fire under their asses with competition would be nice. I don't know who to go get. We can certainly do better than Adrian Klemm, but don't have to break the bank either. If Colledge is playing out of position, then sit his bottom down and let him play behind Cliff or Tausch until they hang it up or get too expensive. The guard situation has to be addressed once and for all.

Favre has weapons and we have a running back. We need a line that can consistently produce the type of performances like you saw from Ryan Grant against Seattle. I'm not saying he'll always get that much yardage, but he had space and was running down hill. We gotta get there. You saw what the lack of committment to the run was like on Sunday night. It cost the game and gassed our defense. Fix the O-line TT and MM.

Another spot on! :D

[Deputy Nutz]

First Thompson isn't going to break the bank on any free agent signing. He might sign one maybe two medium to higher priced guys if that means a trip to the Super Bowl.

If the Packers sign someone like Justin Smith, who is a hard worker, good against the run, and only average as a pass rusher than expect to lose Corey Williams in free agency, and expect to see KGB get the axe. KGB is still our overall best pass rusher, although I think he is a one trick pony and really doesn't strike fear into any one offense.

If the Packers really wanted to upgrade this position in free agency than they have to look for the most bang for their buck and compete for some of these guys but spending over the top money is very risky considering we are going to have to re-up a lot of our own free agents in 2009 and 2010. The Packers have 25 million or so of cap space, and re-signing some of the Packers younger players is a better option than breaking the bank on superficial talent.

[Partial]

At the same time though, the cap is likely to go up and with Fave eventually gone that will free up some cap space. A lot of deals are near the end right now and paying out the "big buck" portion on them. I'm not especially concerned and think we could afford to make a run at a Jared Allen.

We all know TT won't do it, though. He's another failed piss test away from a year suspension.

[The Leaper]

Jenkins was crushed by injuries this year. I think he'll rebound next year--if he can stay healthy.

I agree.

The guy was a beast in preseason this year. He was virtually unblockable...and he was going up against some good OTs.

If Jenkins gets back to 100% and works hard on his conditioning and strength this offseason, he is a plenty capable 1st/2nd down DE.

I also agree with the notion that our defensive scheme needs to put more of an emphasis on attacking the QB with blitzes, as well as finding ways to disguise them. Stacking 7 men on the LOS isn't effective...the offense can see the blitz and adjust their blocking for it.

[run pMc]

Jenkins was hurt most of the year and couldn't play like he is capable of. I don't think he pulled a Cletidus with his contract.
I think Jared Allen will stay in KC...don't forget, this guys is one substance abuse violation away from sitting out a year. I know TT signed KoRo, but he knew him, and it was a smaller contract than what Allen will want. Also, conpared to the other guys on the list, is Williams really that bad? TT already knows what he'd be getting, so it's not out of the question. Smith and Suggs are intruiging. I think TT will let Williams walk, sign a lower tier guy, bring back Cole, and draft somebody. Don't know if Shaun Rogers has much in the tank...he might not be "Packer People" either....but that would be a pretty funny signing.
What about Grady? ;) Nah...

[The Leaper]

Suggs couldn't be a DE in our system. I suppose he could be a LB, but I'm not sure he would want to do that.

I wouldn't mind going after Lance Briggs...make the Bears worse while giving yourself the best LB corp in the NFL.

[Bossman641]

I'd love to have Briggs. Who would you take off the field in the nickel defense? Hawk? Barnett? Briggs? Boy would that be a nice problem to have.

I'd play a lot of 3-3-5 on passing downs and then bring blitzes. You could bring them off the corner with a nickelback or send some linebackers.

[Partial]

Personally I am kind of for scrapping the Bobby Sanders system in favor of something of the flavor the Giants were running. We have the guys to stuff the run on 1st down and with some added depth could have some guys capable of getting some pressure.

[denverYooper]

Suggs couldn't be a DE in our system. I suppose he could be a LB, but I'm not sure he would want to do that.

I wouldn't mind going after Lance Briggs...make the Bears worse while giving yourself the best LB corp in the NFL.

I wouldn't mind seeing us pick up Briggs either. He could be one of those guys that help our D go from average to great.

[Partial]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

[dissident94]

Main concern in offseason has to be both lines.
Agree our pass rush was ineffective last half of year. Our main sack guys, Kampan, KGB and Williams barely touched the qb in the last half. I really think we need to use Hawk and Barnett more in the pass rush.

[twoseven]

If the Packers sign someone like Justin Smith, who is a hard worker, good against the run, and only average as a pass rusher than expect to lose Corey Williams in free agency, and expect to see KGB get the axe.
That's losing 16 sacks from a D line that already has problems consistently pressuring the QB. It's also freeing up an additional, what, like 7+ million a year? (not sure what KGB counts against cap if we cut him a year early) Only to add an average pass rusher? I would hope we'd do a little more than that if we're saying adios to KGB too.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

[Partial]

Welcome to a 3-4 defense. He rushs every play, just like Merriman in SD.

[twoseven]

Suggs couldn't be a DE in our system. I suppose he could be a LB, but I'm not sure he would want to do that.

I wouldn't mind going after Lance Briggs...make the Bears worse while giving yourself the best LB corp in the NFL.
I realize he's been 3-4 LB for the last 5 years, but Suggs was a DE in a 4-3 at AZ State, wasn't he? He's 6-3, 265. Has the size. He has posted some nice sack totals every year for Balt. They dropped some last season, but he also kicked his tackle total up from 60+ to 80+, that plus his size would suggest to me he could hold the line against the run. The guy plays like a beast if you've gotten to see some BAL games. What's your angle on him not being able to play DE for us? Just curious.

[Deputy Nutz]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

Actually you are both wrong.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?team=bal&formationId=16
Suggs is a defensive end in the Ravens base 4-3 defense.

I am not sure he is more of a product of the talented defense, or if he is an actual player. Again is he someone you want to give a <10 million dollar signing bonus to?

[The Leaper]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

Actually you are both wrong.

Go click on him in the link you gave us Nutz...

He's listed as a LB.

Apparently no one knows exactly what this guy is, even the Ravens.

[The Leaper]

Suggs is a defensive end in the Ravens base 4-3 defense.

Yes, but the Ravens also show a 3-4 scheme...and he is a LB in that set.

He's more of a 3-4 LB to me than a 4-3 DE. It would be nice for our defensive coaching staff to be able to craft a defense around a talented guy like that...but they are probably incapable of doing so. They didn't do it for a #5 overall pick, so why would they do it for Suggs?

[The Leaper]

I realize he's been 3-4 LB for the last 5 years, but Suggs was a DE in a 4-3 at AZ State, wasn't he? He's 6-3, 265. Has the size. He has posted some nice sack totals every year for Balt. They dropped some last season, but he also kicked his tackle total up from 60+ to 80+, that plus his size would suggest to me he could hold the line against the run. The guy plays like a beast if you've gotten to see some BAL games. What's your angle on him not being able to play DE for us? Just curious.

Oh, I think he can play DE...I just don't think he fits Thompson's plan after paying big money to Kampman and Jenkins. Thompson isn't going to bring in a starting caliber DE IMO...he might find a pass rush specialist to join/replace KGB, but I don't see him paying top dollar to a DE.

Maybe I worded my previous message differently than I meant. We could use him as a LB...but I doubt Suggs wants OLB money when he can get DE money.

[Deputy Nutz]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

Actually you are both wrong.

Go click on him in the link you gave us Nutz...

He's listed as a LB.

Apparently no one knows exactly what this guy is, even the Ravens.

It says that he is a starter at right defensive end.

He has always been a hybrid pass rusher, and I guess if you have really big defensive tackles and some good linebackers you can get away with having him at defensive end, but he isn't going to control the line of scrimmage on run down.

He is probably a better player in a 3-4 defense, but the Raven went away from it because Lewis struggled taking on blocks and and needs two defensive tackle to protect him.

I like Justin Smith, but I also think the combination of Jenkins and KGB is just as good if not better than any available free agents.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

Actually you are both wrong.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?team=bal&formationId=16
Suggs is a defensive end in the Ravens base 4-3 defense.

I am not sure he is more of a product of the talented defense, or if he is an actual player. Again is he someone you want to give a <10 million dollar signing bonus to?

No, you are wrong. You looked at the depth chart, but if you actually click the link for Suggs you'll see he is listed as a LB.

[The Leaper]

It says that he is a starter at right defensive end.

Yes...but click his name, and it lists him as a LB.

[MJZiggy]

Why don't you guys look him up on NFL.com? That's the official listing from the league...

[The Leaper]

I like Justin Smith, but I also think the combination of Jenkins and KGB is just as good if not better than any available free agents.

I agree. No reason to get rid of KGB right now. He's still a decent pass rusher who can dominate late in the game against tired OTs. He probably will be asked to take a pay cut, which is only reasonable since he's not a full-time player anymore. I think he would be agreeable to that.

[Deputy Nutz]

It says that he is a starter at right defensive end.

Yes...but click his name, and it lists him as a LB.

I really don't care what it says, I care where he actually played this season. He is listed on the depth chart as a defensive end in a base 4-3 scheme.

Splitting hairs, anyways, Thompson really isn't going to have interest anyways, not his style so if Bretsky wants to start calling him a turtle again he can start whenever he wants because TT isn't going to sign any big name free agents today or in the next three months.

He isn't going to go after a high priced cornerback because he still has two pro bowl type veterans who would see it as a slap in the face. Harris and Woodson will both be considered starters next year so you don't sign another legit starter and ask him to play nickel and you certainly don't ask Woodson or Harris to play the nickel unless you want them to walk off the field.

The top three defensive ends all make prime dollars for the Packers and all have been at the very least serviceable. Kampman is going to his second pro bowl and KGG had 10 sacks. Jenkins battled injury and really never matched his expectations set for him for 2007. Jenkins has always been productive, so injury is likely the culprit in his struggles in 2007. To bring in another choice free agent, the Packers would most likely cut one of their top three defensive ends, I would gather that would be Kabeer. I believe TT is going to address this position with the draft or lower priced veterans that can either play the run, or rush the passer a little bit. Kampman needs help on the left side.

The only other place where I could see TT spending money is on the offensive line. If Thompson really feels that Colledge or Spitz are not the long term answer at guard then I could see him opening up the pocket book and solidifying the line for the next several years.

[The Leaper]

He isn't going to go after a high priced cornerback because he still has two pro bowl type veterans who would see it as a slap in the face. Harris and Woodson will both be considered starters next year so you don't sign another legit starter and ask him to play nickel and you certainly don't ask Woodson or Harris to play the nickel unless you want them to walk off the field.

If we sign a high priced CB who is a stud, I'd have no problem telling Al Harris to walk off the field. The guy will be 34 next year. He'll take what we tell him to take and like it, especially after that sorry ass performance in the NFCC game.

However, I agree with you. I think CB will be a prime target for our top draft pick. A DE who can spell Kampman as a pass rusher can be found in the draft as well. If Thompson is going to spend coin, it will be on the OL.

[b bulldog]

If TT spends money imo, he will be doing so on either line and the defensive secondary.

[Partial]

Suggs couldn't be an LB. He is strictly a pass rusher.

Interesting since he is listed as a LB.

Actually you are both wrong.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?team=bal&formationId=16
Suggs is a defensive end in the Ravens base 4-3 defense.

I am not sure he is more of a product of the talented defense, or if he is an actual player. Again is he someone you want to give a <10 million dollar signing bonus to?

Yeah, I could see that in a 4-3. He does play OLB primarily though and rush the passer just about every play. They barely play a 4-3 as far as I know. Rex Ryan definitely ran the 3-4 primarily against the Pats this year.

[Deputy Nutz]

If TT spends money imo, he will be doing so on either line and the defensive secondary.

If you really look at the roster, and mind you this seems to be the strongest position on the team, but our receiving core does not have a lot of speed. Robinson is a decent returner but he certainly didn't wow anyone with his speed or burst through holes. Martin is not a fast person, he has other attributes but speed just isn't one of them. Jones tailed off at the end of the year, but that is the rookie wall, but he is never going to be a burner, but I am not as concerned with him as I am the other two.

I looked over the WR group of free agents, but I really don't see a lot of speed outside of Devery Henderson who finished the 2007 season with the Saints. Not real productive, but does have some speed and ability.

[b bulldog]

I agree and we could use a wr with size/speed