Anyone think that Collins can...

[Tony Oday]

play CB? Just wondering I think that is our biggest weakness going into next year. I would think that beefing up the secondary and the offensive line would be the best moves but that is just me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

well, we had this argument to the tune of about 300 posts a couple months ago. IMO, Collins could probably be a nickle corner.

I think they are OK at safety. I agree that offensive line is a priority, followed by a new corner back for the future.

[BallHawk]

I don't know where Collins fits in, but I'm beginning to think that it isn't as a starting safety. I'm hoping (I don't know whether we will see it) that we have a Rouse/Bigby Safety tandem in '08.

[Charles Woodson]

Could they even try him at lb?

[pbmax]

No, can't see him at CB. He struggles at times with finding TEs.

[Tony Oday]

finding in coverage yes I can see that but put him in bump and run coverage and I think he has the skill set to take on 2nd WRs.

[Tony Oday]

well, we had this argument to the tune of about 300 posts a couple months ago. IMO, Collins could probably be a nickle corner.

I think they are OK at safety. I agree that offensive line is a priority, followed by a new corner back for the future.

and lol how the hell did I miss that post?

[Patler]

I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:


Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.

[Deputy Nutz]

No, can't see him at CB. He struggles at times with finding TEs.

I think if Collins was asked to play some man coverage as a nickel back he would fair better than say Jarrett Bush. The nickel back plays on the outside receiver while Woodson takes the guy in the slot.

[twoseven]

I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:


Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.
Sounds like AJ Hawk to me.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:


Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.
Sounds like AJ Hawk to me.

?

[Joemailman]

No, can't see him at CB. He struggles at times with finding TEs.

The way the Packers use their CB's, finding the guy they're supposed to cover isn't much of a problem. They're usually lined up about a yard away from the receiver.

[Tony Oday]

No, can't see him at CB. He struggles at times with finding TEs.

The way the Packers use their CB's, finding the guy they're supposed to cover isn't much of a problem. They're usually lined up about a yard away from the receiver.

well Carroll seemed to have trouble...hehe had too!

[Bretsky]

I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:


Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.
Sounds like AJ Hawk to me.

?

Probably pointing out that Hawk is solid, but not a playmaker. A strong part of that is the scheme; but there is some validity to it as well

[b bulldog]

Bigby may be are only playmaker on D, maybe kampy and Barnett as well but after those three???

[b bulldog]

B, I agree with your point on Hawk, scarey isn't it. :lol:

[packers11]

Bigby may be are only playmaker on D, maybe kampy and Barnett as well but after those three???

Woodson... 12 ints in two seasons...

[Partial]

I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:


Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.
Sounds like AJ Hawk to me.

?

Probably pointing out that Hawk is solid, but not a playmaker. A strong part of that is the scheme; but there is some validity to it as well

I think Greg Williams could make him into a very good LB. :D

[MacCool606]

Or just fire Schottenheimer

[MJZiggy]

Harv, please check your pms.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harv, please check your pms.

you want him to take a midol?

[Packers4Ever]

[quote=twoseven][quote=Patler]I think we are all missing something about Collins, apparently.
Collins was a Pro-Bowl alternate, not a first alternate, just alternate. That means some think he is something like the 6-9th best safety in the NFC.
Also, I was also surprised to read the following in the GBPG grading article:

[quote]Was targeted 46 times but gave up only 15 completions

It seems his biggest deficiency is failing to generate turnovers. Otherwise, he must be more solid than we think he is.
Sounds like AJ Hawk to me.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here's what Bob McGinn had to say this morning in the Milwaukee Journal - RE; Collins, After 3 seasons, he has played one memorable game at Chicago, started 15 games in his 3rd year and didn't have a single turnover. led the team with dropped interceptions with 3, giving him 8 in his career. Can be moody. Knows his playbook but doesn't always see the big picture and ends up making poor decisions. Gave up 5 and 1/2 big plays and 3 TD passes, had just 1 1/2 tackles for loss, Tackling better than he did as a rookie. Paper graded him at C- (C minus)

There was LOTS more in this long article covering every GB player plus Thompson and McCarthy. Each was graded for performance this year. I think someone else here is covering this subject also - check other posts here.
Suggestion given for Defensive Coord. also.

[b bulldog]

Could someone please post this article in it's entirity

[Harlan Huckleby]

bulldog, I think if you sniff in the garbage can, you might find something to your liking.

[Deputy Nutz]

bulldog, I think if you sniff in the garbage can, you might find something to your liking.

Some people just don't get it. Don't go to the garbage can, you will be infected.

[woodbuck27]

Harv, please check your pms.

Is that the same kind reminder as ''you should now check the oven''?

Sorry mj but I'm just entering the start of the POST Packer crashdown reality phase, that as a symptom includes silliness or giddyness.

I'm trying to re-boot my Packer psyche to full off the shelf ''what in the HELL are we going to do now TT ''?

It's really ALL about Packers Forever. :)

[woodbuck27]

Harv, please check your pms.

you want him to take a midol?

Hahahahahah. . . JUST GREAT HH!! :) :) :) :) :) :)

[woodbuck27]

bulldog, I think if you sniff in the garbage can, you might find something to your liking.

Some people just don't get it. Don't go to the garbage can, you will be infected.

Oh noooo !

NOT Nuclear waste un - recycled. Really BAD stuff!!

[MJZiggy]

Harv, please check your pms.

Is that the same kind reminder as ''you should now check the oven''?



Why is a simple request that someone retrieve a message from me this interesting? We're not even really far enough into the offseason yet to be this bored, people.

Thanks again, Harvey!

And Woodbuck, it may be very possible that TT holds off doing anything until he sees how his very young, yet talented team handles this offseason. It's possible that nothing need be done considering we were 3 points from the Super Bowl this season. Much easier to watch what happens than to fret about it.

[The Leaper]

And Woodbuck, it may be very possible that TT holds off doing anything until he sees how his very young, yet talented team handles this offseason. It's possible that nothing need be done considering we were 3 points from the Super Bowl this season. Much easier to watch what happens than to fret about it.

True, but the main reason you were 3 points from the Super Bowl is 38 and damn close to retirement. At some point, you have to recognize that your best shot at winning a title anytime soon is in 2008 if Favre returns. We have cap space, so why not bring in some veteran help in areas that we need it? This year's FA crop will probably be better than last year's.

[MJZiggy]

Depends. IF Favre retires, TT believes he has the heir apparent. If Favre returns, TT still has to believe that any vet he brings in is better than the player he's brought in to replace--AND he has to believe (and this is the tricky part) that the vet he brings in is better for the long-term health of the team than a player he could draft (a la Charles Woodson). Not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying it has to be right in TT's mind no matter what anyone else thinks and that there is the possibility that he may not go gangbusters and bring a lot of veterans in. If any.

[Packers4Ever]

Could someone please post this article in it's entirity


Bulldog, the JS article ran almost 3 full pages long,it would be difficult to
post. You might have a better chance checking your local drugstores, etc
to see if they have any leftovers, sometimes they do and will keep them
on the racks for a couple more days. Or maybe a neighbor has one.

One other suggestion in the article that I don't think I mentioned was
to fire Sanders.
Garbage ??

[Harlan Huckleby]

Garbage ??

articleay is ostedpay in the arbagegay ancay.

[twoseven]

?
I haven't been a rat long enough to know where everyone stands on certain players, you name it. You WILL NOT find a bigger AJ fan than me. On another board I got tired of the relentless bs you would hear about Hawk being a bust, not making enough plays, you name it, simply because he wasn't standing out in a flashy way.

My post was a sarcastic comment, and an automatic knee-jerking smartass reaction brought on by bad memories of those that do not see AJ for what he is, maybe the most solid and consistent player we have on defense. He may not be all over the place racking up big play stats, but at the end of the day when the grades are in, he's usually done his job as it was asked of him. Probably better than some care to realize. Patler pointing out that Collins may be more effective than we think he is when the numbers are analyzed just harkened me back to the arguments I used to have at the JSO home for juvenille delinquents with Hawk haters. Sorry to have confused you. I've yet to read any Hawk hater-esque posts here, so I probably shouldn't have posted the sarcasm. My apologies.

[Rastak]

Garbage ??

articleay is ostedpay in the arbagegay ancay.


HAHAHAHA......it all comes together now.


That was outstanding.

[Packers4Ever]

Garbage ??

articleay is ostedpay in the arbagegay ancay.


HAHAHAHA......it all comes together now.


That was outstanding.

I do know what an arbagegay ancay is !! :roll:

[vince]

?
I haven't been a rat long enough to know where everyone stands on certain players, you name it. You WILL NOT find a bigger AJ fan than me. On another board I got tired of the relentless bs you would hear about Hawk being a bust, not making enough plays, you name it, simply because he wasn't standing out in a flashy way.

My post was a sarcastic comment, and an automatic knee-jerking smartass reaction brought on by bad memories of those that do not see AJ for what he is, maybe the most solid and consistent player we have on defense. He may not be all over the place racking up big play stats, but at the end of the day when the grades are in, he's usually done his job as it was asked of him. Probably better than some care to realize. Patler pointing out that Collins may be more effective than we think he is when the numbers are analyzed just harkened me back to the arguments I used to have at the JSO home for juvenille delinquents with Hawk haters. Sorry to have confused you. I've yet to read any Hawk hater-esque posts here, so I probably shouldn't have posted the sarcasm. My apologies.
You and bulldog will undoubtedly hook up in future posts, twoseven. He's a wolverine to the bone, so he's genetically predetermined to hate on Hawk... :wink:

Like a lot of posters here though, bulldog is a great guy to exchange opinions with. He always keeps in on the up and up (as long as you do) and brings facts with his smack. He'll take you head on in one post, then he'll be your biggest ally if he agrees with you in the next post.

[twoseven]

?
I haven't been a rat long enough to know where everyone stands on certain players, you name it. You WILL NOT find a bigger AJ fan than me. On another board I got tired of the relentless bs you would hear about Hawk being a bust, not making enough plays, you name it, simply because he wasn't standing out in a flashy way.

My post was a sarcastic comment, and an automatic knee-jerking smartass reaction brought on by bad memories of those that do not see AJ for what he is, maybe the most solid and consistent player we have on defense. He may not be all over the place racking up big play stats, but at the end of the day when the grades are in, he's usually done his job as it was asked of him. Probably better than some care to realize. Patler pointing out that Collins may be more effective than we think he is when the numbers are analyzed just harkened me back to the arguments I used to have at the JSO home for juvenille delinquents with Hawk haters. Sorry to have confused you. I've yet to read any Hawk hater-esque posts here, so I probably shouldn't have posted the sarcasm. My apologies.
You and bulldog will undoubtedly hook up in future posts, twoseven. He's a wolverine to the bone, so he's genetically predetermined to hate on Hawk... :wink:

Like a lot of posters here though, bulldog is a great guy to exchange opinions with. He always keeps in on the up and up (as long as you do) and brings facts with his smack. He'll take you head on in one post, then he'll be your biggest ally if he agrees with you in the next post.
All I can say and have ever said about hating a player because of where they are from is, for me, that rah rah bs should be left at the door when the talent is coming to play on your NFL team. It seems a bit silly to let some college rivalry, even the best of all time UM/OSU, still being upheld in the NFL. Do Woodson and Hawk dislike each other because of this? If not, then why should a fan, even an alumnus of one of the schools? I have never cheered against a Michigan player, Ohio State player, or Minnnesota player that we picked up just because I am a Badger fan, I think that's nothing short of ridiculous. Reality is I have absolutely torched many Badger players verbally that have attempted to play in the NFL. I have had more than enough insight on them like most WI residents, but I leave trashing other big ten kids to their respective fans, works for me but others can do what they want. BOTH schools attract and produce outstading talent into the NFL, that's ALL that I care about, and I wish we had more ofit coming to GB.

[run pMc]

Collins is a S.
He's not a ballhawk.

That's the problem for many people. He has lots of athletic skill, but not very good hands. If his name isn't being mentioned, he's probably doing his job.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've yet to read any Hawk hater-esque posts here, so I probably shouldn't have posted the sarcasm. My apologies.

See our poll. I didn't post in that thread because everybody knows that I think Hawk is a very good starter who just does his job well. Statistically, he's one of the best coverage LBs in the business. He's well above average in his tackling ability. He also doesn't take poor angles a lot. It would be nice if the Packers used all of his abilities (blitzed him more). That's where a lot of big plays happen. Until he gets to blitz more, we probably won't see the big turnover numbers. There's not much he can he do about that.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=10189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[b bulldog]

Anyone think that Collins can actually make a play:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Our D has too many players that are above average but not playmakers.

[b bulldog]

I guess I don't really need to post my opinion on Hawk :shock:

[Joemailman]

Anyone think that Collins can actually make a play:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Our D has too many players that are above average but not playmakers.

I think it's an open question whether the Packers defense lacks playmakers, or whether they lack a defensive scheme that puts players in a good position to make big plays.

[hurleyfan]

Anyone think that Collins can actually make a play:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Our D has too many players that are above average but not playmakers.

I think it's an open question whether the Packers defense lacks playmakers, or whether they lack a defensive scheme that puts players in a good position to make big plays.

Joe, I think it's a combination of both!

They have some "playmakers", maybe not studs, but real good players.
I would love to see a more aggressive defensive philosophy, possibly allowing Hawke to really blossom, along with Barnett and his speed.

Not sure if Collins will ever become a great safety, but in a more agressive scheme, maybe we'll get to see some upside!

[Bretsky]

Anyone think that Collins can actually make a play:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Our D has too many players that are above average but not playmakers.

I think it's an open question whether the Packers defense lacks playmakers, or whether they lack a defensive scheme that puts players in a good position to make big plays.


Or the coach that will maximize the players by implementing the scheme