Randy Moss refused to play for Packers, hung up on calls

[Partial]

New England Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss was asked during a Super Bowl press conference this morning whether he thought he would be traded to the Green Bay Packers last offseason, and whether Packers quarterback Brett Favre called him.

Moss, appearing on an NFL Network telecast, replied: "I think Brett wanted to talk to me. I think the time that he wanted to talk to me I was a little tied up. I forgot what I was doing, but I was a little tied up and was unable to talk to him.

"But Green Bay was in the picture, but the things that was told to me about maneuvering money around and making it a good fit, the Packers were really talking a lot about the wrong things and not the right things.

"When they started talking more about the wrong things I just hung the phone up and didn’t want to talk to them anymore. I thought that at first, it’s something that could have worked out, for the fact that Brett Favre was there, but I think as the conversations continued throughout the day or the next day, I didn’t really want to go to Green Bay."

Moss was eventually traded by the Oakland Raiders to the Patriots on draft weekend last April. Favre later publicly complained that the Packers organization didn't do enough to acquire Moss.

Moss later was asked to explain what he meant by the Packers talking about the "wrong things."

He replied: "They were just talking about how their team concept, and the wide receivers, and Donald Driver, things like that. It's like they were telling me that they're going to somewhat take a chance on me, but if you do come here, these are the things that you have to watch out and be on your best behavior. And Donald Driver is the top receiver, so don't come in here and try to step on his toes, you know, things like that.

"I didn't think that was right because my whole career I have been taken out of (context) sometimes but, you know, at the end of the day, all I wanted to do is win games, and it's hard in this league to win games. I think that's why if we go ahead and do this thing the way it's supposed to be done on Sunday, going undefeated, man, it's an historical moment. I didn't feel that they really wanted me. I think Brett wanted me. I didn't think the Packers organization really wanted me."

[b bulldog]

Moss just didn't like that DD is the man and he had to respect that.

[oregonpackfan]

Moss just didn't like that DD is the man and he had to respect that.

I think Moss also did not like the "team concept" the Packers were wishing for him to follow.

[b bulldog]

:bclap: Can we finally put this to bed now?

[MTPackerfan]

Based on these comments, it would appear that Moss might not have been a good fit in Green Bay and could have turned into a problem for the team. As it turns out, it may have been for the best we didn't trade for him.

[packinpatland]

He might have done as well as he was doing in Oakland :roll:
Randy is all about Randy......somethings will never change.

[packers11]

This makes me root for the Giants even more now... I'd love to see that selfish piece of shit never win a Superbowl...

[BF4MVP]

Well then..I guess we can stop wondering what could have been..Now it's more like what COULDN'T have been. I was very happy with our receivers the whole season anyway though..I was just thinking how much better our corps could be if we had him, but we didn't need him. 1-5 our corps is one of the best in football, as it is.

[gbpackfan]

The Packers were 100% right. Donald Driver has paid his dues and is THE MAN in GB! I LOVE THAT THE PACKERS TOLD MOSS HE IS THE #1 GUY. You back up your boys. PERIOD. Nice job TT!

Donald Driver = MOST UNDERRATED WR IN THE GAME!

[OkayKyle]

Clearly, he isn't.

http://www.packersgab.com/2007/06/25/driver-most-overrated-wr-says-espn-insider-joyner/

[packinpatland]

Who in the hell is Matt Loede ?? :roll:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Clearly, he isn't.

http://www.packersgab.com/2007/06/25/driver-most-overrated-wr-says-espn-insider-joyner/

From Bob McGinn:

Donald Driver: Elected to second Pro Bowl, and for good reason. Dropped just two passes for the lowest drop rate (1.49%) of his career and averaged a career-best 5.33 yards after the catch. The target of 155 balls on average the last three years, he saw just 134 in '07. Touchdown production waned but he still caught 90 passes for 1,207 yards in 17 games. Will turn 33 this week but as willing as ever to troll among linebackers from the slot. The consummate professional. Played better than anyone else against the Giants. Grade: A.

[b bulldog]

DD is just plain awesome!

[SkinBasket]

Clearly, he isn't.

http://www.packersgab.com/2007/06/25/driver-most-overrated-wr-says-espn-insider-joyner/

I love when guys essentially create a mathematical system to prove their own point. Because if they used numbers, they can't be wrong.

[Patler]

Clearly, he isn't.

http://www.packersgab.com/2007/06/25/driver-most-overrated-wr-says-espn-insider-joyner/

1. That article was based on the 2006 season.
2. "YPA per bomb attempt" is ridiculous, unless it factors in whether or not the pass was even catchable. We all remember how inaccurate Favre was in 2006, particularly on long passes.
3. Most of his other YPA analysis is equally flawed. When a receiver is asked to run a very high percentage of short routes in the middle of the field, as Driver is, his YPA, YAC and other such calculations will suffer. Generally those routes have primary defenders close, and in the middle of the field tend to have help in the area.

Heck, Favre's completion percentage was bad in 2006, and MM even acknowledged it had a lot to do with Favre, his decisions and his throws. It was a point of emphasis between 2006 and 2007, which seemed to work based on Favre's completion percentage this past season.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Clearly, he isn't.

http://www.packersgab.com/2007/06/25/driver-most-overrated-wr-says-espn-insider-joyner/

I love when guys essentially create a mathematical system to prove their own point. Because if they used numbers, they can't be wrong.
I love how bad throws from a QB are used to show how bad the WR is.

Umm, how the hell does that make sense? That's like saying since the 3B keeps throwing the ball 10 feet over the 1B head, the 1B is a poor fielder.

[gbgary]

they're two completely different wr types. DD does the dirty work...slants, over-the-middle stuff, etc. moss is the go-deep-with-speed type. apples/oranges. it could have worked but we'll never know. the Packers didn't know if he had anything left or not just as the rest of the league didn't. the pats needed one puzzle piece...the Packers needed many more. they had nothing to lose.

[MadtownPacker]

:bclap: Can we finally put this to bed now?These comments settled it for me. Screw moss, and yes go giants.

[Carolina_Packer]

Moss later was asked to explain what he meant by the Packers talking about the "wrong things."

He replied: "They were just talking about how their team concept, and the wide receivers, and Donald Driver, things like that. It's like they were telling me that they're going to somewhat take a chance on me, but if you do come here, these are the things that you have to watch out and be on your best behavior. And Donald Driver is the top receiver, so don't come in here and try to step on his toes, you know, things like that.

If he had an issue about the "team concept", why did he go to New England? They are one of the more team concept oriented teams in the NFL. Truth is, New England didn't already have a true #1 receiver, and New England at the time had more of a predictable chance to make the playoffs, which is why Randy ultimately preferred that opportunity.

The quote about the Packers not wanting him as much as Favre might fuel Woody's fire more than put it out, or put the matter to rest with him. If you still want a guy who didn't really want to be in Green Bay, then what do you say? Even if the front office had really wanted him, according to how Moss perceives being wanted, he may have still preferred going to New England. Either way, he was going to have to play within a "team concept".

[Partial]

ATTN: Woodbuck!

[The Leaper]

Moss has stated all along that he wanted a one year deal...and the Packers weren't willing to do that. That is why Moss lost interest in Green Bay.

[Noodle]

I think folks are missing the point. The way I read this, Moss felt like the Pack viewed him as a trouble maker and were all in his grill warning him that DD was the man, he would have to accept his role, etc. I don't blame Moss a bit for saying screw that, I don't need people assuming I'm a bad guy, I'll go where the vibe is positive.

I hope TT views this as a learning experience. When you talk to a guy, don't tell him about limits, tell him instead about the limitless possbilities if he does x, y and z.

We would have been better with Moss. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you don't know what you are talking about.

[packinpatland]

I'm thinking the Packers are not going to get into a 'we said , he said'.......so it's all 'Randy said'. One year of being 'good' does not erase a carreer of acting like an ass.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I think folks are missing the point. The way I read this, Moss felt like the Pack viewed him as a trouble maker and were all in his grill warning him that DD was the man, he would have to accept his role, etc. I don't blame Moss a bit for saying screw that, I don't need people assuming I'm a bad guy, I'll go where the vibe is positive.

I hope TT views this as a learning experience. When you talk to a guy, don't tell him about limits, tell him instead about the limitless possbilities if he does x, y and z.

We would have been better with Moss. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you don't know what you are talking about.
Better to be honest upfront with him and set the right expectations than have Randy think one thing, get here, decide he didn't like his role and then pout and decide to "play when he wants to play".

That would have been a far worse scenario.

[The Leaper]

We would have been better with Moss. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you don't know what you are talking about.

We may have been better...I'm not sure it would've helped in the NFCC game any. The cold (and Giant DL) hindered the deep passing game.

[b bulldog]

Moss would have helped the run just by the coverage he takes with him. I'm glad that he isn't in GB, he is a jerk imo.

[woodbuck27]

I find it interesting that 100 different people can read an article like that. Then interpret it based more on their prejudices than what the person interviewed is saying or revealing to the audience.

or. . .

People read into an article just what they want to, to agree with their overriding values, beliefs and prejudices.

What I read is just what I felt I already understood.

1. Randy Moss was on Brett Favre's wish list.

2. Favre even went so far as to try a personal contact or speak to Randy Moss and give that proposition (of Favre to Moss - TD!!) a personal touch. Favre didn't get there, or actually speak to Randy Moss as Randy Moss was busy elsewhere at the time of Favre's call (calls).

Otherwise the article tells us that Randy Moss certainly felt he and Brett Favre would be a good thing.

3. Contacts with the Packer brass didn't exactly evoke an inviting tone, as Randy Moss interpreted it. It was a sorta cookie before the ingredients thing.

The trouble is no ingredients - no cookiie.

4. Again back to my TT and the Poker game correlation.

I'm not at all surprized that TT sidled up to the table but in character or as usual ' having no guts ' to get right in the game. TT isn't exactly the warmest fella by reputation and as he has come off to me when on camera or interviewed.

This or TT's personality, may give us a load of problems during his tenure. He's cold as a stone at the bottom of the well. That doesn't attract talented playmakers, usualy. Talent attracts talent and more talent draws more still.

5. Randy Moss didn't really feel welcome in Green Bay. Is that hard to believe? NO!!

NOT FOR ME! TT didn't, either want him, or he really messed this one up terribly? Playing it over the top way too cool?

Wait TT went to bed feeling he had the deal made. Uhhhh!! Did Randy Moss tell him that? I don't believe that was the case.

Who's number one doesn't matter to a talent such as Randy Moss anyway as he knows he is THE NUMBER ONE WR; and if he enters TC otherwise he'll rise as he puts the ball in the end zone a lot.

ALL then same. . .PACKERS FOREVER! :)

[Kiwon]

:bclap: Can we finally put this to bed now?

I could not agree more.

Frankly, I surprised it took to the Super Bowl week to finally hear directly from him about what went down.

The man's not in Green Bay because he didn't want to be in Green Bay. End of story.

[woodbuck27]

I think folks are missing the point. The way I read this, Moss felt like the Pack viewed him as a trouble maker and were all in his grill warning him that DD was the man, he would have to accept his role, etc. I don't blame Moss a bit for saying screw that, I don't need people assuming I'm a bad guy, I'll go where the vibe is positive.

I hope TT views this as a learning experience. When you talk to a guy, don't tell him about limits, tell him instead about the limitless possbilities if he does x, y and z.

We would have been better with Moss. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you don't know what you are talking about.

:bclap: and well, of course!


Randy Moss refused to play for Packers, hung up on calls

NOPE!! The writing doesn't support that heading:

"When they started talking more about the wrong things I just hung the phone up and didn’t want to talk to them anymore. I thought that at first, it’s something that could have worked out, for the fact that Brett Favre was there, but I think as the conversations continued throughout the day or the next day, I didn’t really want to go to Green Bay." Randy Moss


''. . . I didn't feel that they really wanted me. I think Brett wanted me. I didn't think the Packers organization really wanted me." Randy Moss

The article tells the story as I understood it and says that TT didn"t have the GM skills to attract Randy Moss or didn't have his heart in, any plan to acquire this great talent for OUR team.

Ted Thompson in all his glory blows another one.

The verdict on this one is finally in. TT blew the possible Randy Moss deal and did so with his anal manner of pretending to be a the real man we need to take us to the TOP.

NO SUPER BOWLS for the GREEN BAY PACKERS under Ted Thompson as our GM. Mark it on all the walls. He doesn't have it Packer fans.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[twoseven]

Is Moss even going to be around in NE next year, he did just sign for one season. That'll be an expesive keeper for NE.

[RashanGary]

It sounded to me like Moss felt disrespected. You don't tell the most spectacular WR to ever play the game that he's second fiddle to a good but no where near great WR like Donald Driver.



You tell Randy Moss that you think he's the greatest fucking thing since sliced bread and you've seen all of the negative storys and you worry, but you want to give him a chance. You ask him if he's willing to work and wants to be a part of your team. If he says "yes" then you have your guy. You don't tell Randy Moss that he better be on his best behavior and he's second fiddle. That is stupid.



I don't think it was a horrible mistake because I don't think anyone expected this kind of year. Only two GM's even dared touch him so it's not like anyone saw this coming. It's all hindsight. We all complain about 1,000,000 things and when one of them pans out, we all knew what we were talking about and the GM's an idiot. Reality is that Ted didn't realize what he passed on but neither did 30 other GM's so I can't really whine too much about Ted.

I agree with Woodbuck that this story in no way makes it seem like it was all Randy's decision. It acctually sounds like the Packers made him feel unwelcome by telling him he's not "the guy". It's one thing to tell that to Ryan Pickett but quite another when you tell it to a guy like Randy Moss. Treating him that way was a mistake.

[RashanGary]

The way I read that, is if the Packers made Moss feel welcome and told him they'd love to have a spectacular talent like him on the team he'd be here. Instead they tried to tell him he was worse than Driver and better thank us for giving him a chance.

Yeah right. Moss might be the greatest offensive weapon to ever play the game.

[twoseven]

The way I read that, is if the Packers made Moss feel welcome and told him they'd love to have a spectacular talent like him on the team he'd be here. Instead they tried to tell him he was worse than Driver and better thank us for giving him a chance.

Yeah right. Moss might be the greatest offensive weapon to ever play the game.
We only got RM's side of the phone call, but if it's remotely true our guys need some work on their salemenship/wooing skills. I too love to be reminded of my shortcomings and have people suggest I toe the line as someone is negotiating that I come and work with them. :roll:

[Scott Campbell]

You don't tell the most spectacular WR to ever play the game that he's second fiddle to a good but no where near great WR like Donald Driver.


Problem is, Randy was not the most spectacular WR to ever play the game when Ted was talking with him. He was the piece of crap stinking it up and pouting in Oakland, and years removed from the type of play we saw this year. His value was so diminished that the Pats only had to give up a 4th for him. Think about that. They got him for a 4th round pick. Think about how bad his reputation had become that the Raiders would have to settle for a lousy 4th. The Pats made a small bet on a longshot, and it paid off huge. Good for them. But I don't blame Ted or any of the other GM's in football that didn't bet more on the guy for not taking a longshot chance on damaged goods.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[Scott Campbell]

I too love to be reminded of my shortcomings and have people suggest I toe the line as someone is negotiating that I come and work with them. :roll:


I think Randy's reaction to his likely role on this team was a necessary indicator of his willingness to fit in here. If he couldn't deal with it, we wouldn't have wanted him. Unless you knew he'd have a humongous year. Which you didn't.

[Patler]

What would it have said to Donald Driver if the Packers fell all over Randy Moss to get him there? Some of you are concerned with not respecting Randy Moss, how about not respecting Donald Driver?

2004, 2005 2006 combined stats:

Moss- 42 games, 151 receptions, 1,825 yards.
Driver 48 games, 262 receptions, 3,724 yards.

Based on the last three seasons, you are going to tell Driver to step aside because Randy Moss is here? No, you tell Moss that he has to come here and earn his throws, just like everyone else, because Driver and Favre have a connection that has served both well for years.

It was much easier for NE to tell him that he could come in and be #1, because they had no established primary receiving threat.

[twoseven]

I too love to be reminded of my shortcomings and have people suggest I toe the line as someone is negotiating that I come and work with them. :roll:


I think Randy's reaction to his likely role on this team was a necessary indicator of his willingness to fit in here. If he couldn't deal with it, we wouldn't have wanted him. Unless you knew he'd have a humongous year. Which you didn't.
I simply stated that if what he said was even a bit true our side needs to work on their salesmanship. Forget Moss. Are they going to address future phone calls with the same scolding parental tones if the player has had issues? Pretty stupid if you ask me, and a total waste of cell phone minutes. I don't care if it's Randy Moss or Mother Theresa on the phone, nobody that has any pride or self-esteem wants to be talked to like that, or reminded of problems they have tried to put behind them. Both Briggs and Hayensworth have had issues, is the first step towards negotiating a deal with them to bring up the Lamborghini crash and stepping on players faces? I would hope not. If you have a big enough problem with those types of things maybe you shouldn't be calling the player in the first place, eh?

[vince]

I was one who advocated for signing Moss last offseason, and obviously he has produced like no other receiver in history over the course of this regular season. However, Moss's upside potential was clearly not without an equal potential for a cancerous presence if things didn't go the way he wanted them to. His continuing personal problems are also a negative weight to the team.

I think the approach taken by the organization was justified, particularly when you look at the fact that they've put together a potent receiving group without the potential cancerous presence. With the production and depth we now have, it's hard to argue we'd really be much better off with him. Someone already mentioned it, but Moss would not likely have made a big difference against the G-Men.

You can second guess every decision a GM makes. You obviously have to look at the overall body of work and the actual results.

[packinpatland]

Moss didn't want to come to GB............he 'stunk-up' our goalpost. :wink:

[twoseven]

If they can figure that much about a player's character, intentions, and current ability with a phone call then I wish they had called Ahmad Carrol a few more times before they drafted him.

[Scott Campbell]

Both Briggs and Hayensworth have had issues......


Not on the field they haven't. Randy's problems were greater on the field than anywhere else.

[twoseven]

Unless you knew he'd have a humongous year. Which you didn't.
I could give two spits about Moss after he became a Pat, but while you are making blind assumptions about me, for your info count me as one of those people that said he still had the goods.

[twoseven]

Both Briggs and Hayensworth have had issues......


Not on the field they haven't. Randy's problems were greater on the field than anywhere else.
So when Hayensworth stepped on that guy's face on the field and during a game, how exactly was that not an on the field issue?

Briggs getting drunk, crshing his car, fleeing the scene, then calling the police from his house to say his car was stolen is somehow not as bad as squirting a ref, mooning our fans, and walking to the lockerroom before then WAS game ended? C'mon.

[Scott Campbell]

Unless you knew he'd have a humongous year. Which you didn't.
I could give two spits about Moss after he became a Pat, but while you are making blind assumptions about me, for your info count me as one of those people that said he still had the goods.



Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew the Pack would go 13-3.

[RashanGary]

If you read all of my post SC, I agree with you. It's hindsight now. Still, Moss had been a GREAT player. I consider him the greatest WR or RB that I've watched.


He wasn't as productive in Oakland for a number of reasons. Still, you don't tell a guy like Moss that he's second fiddle. Whether you think it or not, you don't say it if you want a guy to come to your team. You tell him how amazing he was in Minnesota and if he plays half that good with your team, you'll be extatic.


I agree that htey need to work on their smoozing skills. That was just a piss/poor way to treat a player you want. If I was all of a sudden a great player and I was talked to like that, I'd go to the other team too. Even if I had a chance to play for the Packers and I was a fan like I am, I'd still go to the other team if they appreciated me more. I would not want to be somewhere that I wasn't wanted. That was their problem. They made him feel unwanted.

[woodbuck27]

What would it have said to Donald Driver if the Packers fell all over Randy Moss to get him there? Some of you are concerned with not respecting Randy Moss, how about not respecting Donald Driver?

2004, 2005 2006 combined stats:

Moss- 42 games, 151 receptions, 1,825 yards.
Driver 48 games, 262 receptions, 3,724 yards.

Based on the last three seasons, you are going to tell Driver to step aside because Randy Moss is here? No, you tell Moss that he has to come here and earn his throws, just like everyone else, because Driver and Favre have a connection that has served both well for years.

It was much easier for NE to tell him that he could come in and be #1, because they had no established primary receiving threat.

Ohhh DAM! Here comes the heavy gun!!

No! No! No! No!

TT wasn't offering the DAM world to Oakland to get Randy Moss to Green Bay. Only a mid 4th rounder. If in fact, TT had gone into all that BS on the phone, just to allow Randy Moss full knowledge that he was wanted (sarcasm intended) in Green Bay, and a deal hopefully would be done? He (TT) was certainly down the wrong path fr. Randy Moss and that wsn't a good way to say to Randy Moss the Green Bay Packers welcome YOU.

TT should never have gotten into ANY DAM politics at that stage only made a deal with Oakland.

The next thing you fellas will argue is that TT would have wanted DD to be the Number 1 WR and QB for the Packers if he had to offer a third. We are talking an outstanding prospect at WR for a team that looked thin-thin really thin in April on 'O'. If you can get a Randy Moss for a third any of YOU are you going to grab him by the balls over the phone and read him the riot act?

Why why why are all you intelligent and supposedly sensable people here defending Ted Thompson on this one? It's way beyond ridiculous in any manner of sense I can possible conjure up. I'm just astounded at how foolish a defense of TT here is!!

Again only if Randy Moss is giving the accurte account of evdents bet. him and Packer people responsible to recruit him. Now maybe that wasn't Ted Thompson? I'll read the article another time. I want to be really fair here.

Otherwise come on Ladies and gentleman.

Good grief for all that is HOLY allow this one to fall all over Ted Thompson as he blew it out of the water, if this account of the story by Randy Moss is accurate.

In other words.

If this article is accurate or the TRUTH? Then Ted Thompson acted incompetent. If after that sort of recruiting style he really felt that Randy was aboard . .

''I thought we had a deal with Oakland for Randy Moss for that 4th when I went to bed'' paraphrasing Ted Thompson on Draft Sunday.

Then Ted Thompson was sorely deluded. That's way too nice.

In fact. What we have, is just a real example of his BULLSHIT!!

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Patler]

None of us have any idea what was REALLY said, or how it was said. Egomaniac athletes, who feel DISRESPECTED by the slightest little thing, who pout when not enough throws come their way, or when their $10 million salary is surpassed by someone's $11 million salary are hardly an objective source for the reasonableness of a verbal comment or two.

TT may have said very innocently that Moss needed to come to GB and fit in with the team, and with another Pro-Bowl receiver in Driver. To Moss, the mere mention of Driver, or for that matter anyone other than Randy Moss, may have been an insult, a blatant show of DISRESPECT.

[Patler]

TT wasn't offering the DAM world to Oakland to get Randy Moss to Green Bay. Only a mid 4th rounder. If in fact, TT had gone into all that BS on the phone, just to allow Randy Moss full knowledge that he was wanted (sarcasm intended) in Green Bay, and a deal hopefully would be done? He (TT) was certainly down the wrong path fr. Randy Moss and that wsn't a good way to say to Randy Moss the Green Bay Packers welcome YOU.

TT should never have gotten into ANY DAM politics at that stage only made a deal with Oakland.

The next thing you fellas will argue is that TT would have wanted DD to be the Number 1 WR and QB for the Packers if he had to offer a third. We are talking an outstanding prospect at WR for a team that looked thin-thin really thin in April on 'O'. If you can get a Randy Moss for a third any of YOU are you going to grab him by the balls over the phone and read him the riot act?

Why why why are all you intelligent and supposedly sensable people here defending Ted Thompson on this one? It's way beyond ridiculous in any manner of sense I can possible conjure up. I'm just astounded at how foolish a defense of TT here is!!

Again only if Randy Moss is giving the accurte account of evdents bet. him and Packer people responsible to recruit him. Now maybe that wasn't Ted Thompson? I'll read the article another time. I want to be really fair here.

Otherwise come on Ladies and gentleman.

Good grief for all that is HOLY allow this one to fall all over Ted Thompson as he blew it out of the water, if this account of the story by Randy Moss is accurate.

In other words.

If this article is accurate or the TRUTH? Then Ted Thompson acted incompetent. If after that sort of recruiting style he really felt that Randy was aboard . .

''I thought we had a deal with Oakland for Randy Moss for that 4th when I went to bed'' paraphrasing Ted Thompson on Draft Sunday.

Then Ted Thompson was sorely deluded. That's way too nice.

In fact. What we have, is just a real example of his BULLSHIT!!

PACKERS FOREVER!

I believe Moss had a no trade clause, or something to the effect. At any rate it was commonly expressed that Moss had final say about what teams he would or would not go to. TT had to "play politics" and couldn't have just "made a deal with Oakland" as you expressed.

Perhaps the team "looked thin-thin really thin in April" only to us on the outside. Perhaps TT knew his receiving corp was in better shape than we thought it was. Perhaps that is why he did not view Moss as a necessity.

Defending Thompson? There is nothing to defend. It is simply a deal that never finalized. There are many, many, many deals that are discussed, that reach various levels, but are never finalized for various reasons. This was one stupid deal and you make such a big issue over it. The only thing absurd about this discussion is your belief that some how this was a defining moment in Packer history and the TT administration.

Even if TT said exactly what Moss implied he did, it was an honest statement of fact. Since you think that was an incompetent act, it paints a not so nice picture for me about you.

[Carolina_Packer]

What does anyone take from his statement that he never really wanted to come to Green Bay anyway? Doesn't that kind of say it all, regardless of how he thought he was treated? The other question I would have is, how would a team be able to legally speak with a player under contract with another team who is potential trade-bait? It's one thing if they are an UFA, but another thing if they are property of another team. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I would think it would be a no-no for any team to have contact with a guy who belongs to another team. Perhaps they didn't directly speak with him, but relayed messages through Oakland to Moss' representatives.

Bottom line is, this issue has been beaten to death and if you are still hanging onto it, you need to let it go and move on. If you want to use it as ammo to villify TT, go ahead. It will do you about as good as someone still wishing Randy was coming to Green Bay. The ship has sailed long ago. Move on!

[Patler]

The other question I would have is, how would a team be able to legally speak with a player under contract with another team who is potential trade-bait? It's one thing if they are an UFA, but another thing if they are property of another team. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I would think it would be a no-no for any team to have contact with a guy who belongs to another team. Perhaps they didn't directly speak with him, but relayed messages through Oakland to Moss' representatives.


When a team and player under contract recognize that a trade is in the interest of both parties, the team might allow a limited window for the player to seek a trade. This usually occurs when the player has a "no trade" clause, which gives him final approval anyway, or when the trade would require the player to revise his contract to make it work. It is not uncommon. The trade ends up involving both teams and the player to make it work.

[Bretsky]

Both Briggs and Hayensworth have had issues......


Not on the field they haven't. Randy's problems were greater on the field than anywhere else.


Haynesworth spiked a guy in the head with his shoes requiring stitches; doesn't that qualify with on the field issues

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The way I read that, is if the Packers made Moss feel welcome and told him they'd love to have a spectacular talent like him on the team he'd be here. Instead they tried to tell him he was worse than Driver and better thank us for giving him a chance.

Yeah right. Moss might be the greatest offensive weapon to ever play the game.
We only got RM's side of the phone call, but if it's remotely true our guys need some work on their salemenship/wooing skills. I too love to be reminded of my shortcomings and have people suggest I toe the line as someone is negotiating that I come and work with them. :roll:

I totally agree. I don't think that if we pursue guys like Ricky Williams, Viking RB (fake urine), Odell Thurman, etc. that we should ever talk with them about their past, how they will fit in, team chemistry, etc. That is just stupid.

Just sign them and be done with it. :roll:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

As usual we got more ridiculous out of Woody.

This is the bottom line. Moss said the "organization," not TT. Do you not think he woulda said the name of the person that pissed him off? Yep, that Moss is shy and retiring. :roll:

But, more to the point, we did nothing wrong. We talked to him about Randy and we talked about our team. That is what you do when you are INTERVIEWING a potential employee. I'm sorry, but the employee has less "rights" than the company. We do the same for everybody. Now, we have to make a special exemption for Moss. Great, we are already caving.

Just as randy is bitching so could we have signed a troubled player and he coulda turned his life around. We would be talking about what a great guy he is, newspaper articles, etc. How coming to GB was the best thing for his career.

Oh, wait. I guess we already did that with some other WR.

[Bretsky]

One point I will definitely agree with JH on.

If you want the guy you need to learn how to set the tone for getting him here.

In sales people often have to balance getting the deal with saying anything that will scare the buyer away or setting a negative tone before the deal is sealed.

This is just one bloated ego's view in RM, but if true it sounds like GB should have considered that more

[packers11]

"Among other things, the Packers wanted part of Moss’ $3 million pay for this season to come in the form of weekly bonuses that required him to be on the 45-man game-day roster. With the Patriots, Moss made the same $3 million in signing bonus and base salary, without the weekly roster bonuses. He reportedly has earned another $2 million in playing incentives — incentives similar to what the Packers are believed to have offered.

“I think Brett wanted to talk to me,” Moss said. “I think the time that he wanted to talk to me I was a little tied up. I forgot what I was doing, but I was a little tied up and was unable to talk to him. Green Bay was in the picture, but the things that was told to me about maneuvering money around and making it a good fit, the Packers were really talking a lot about the wrong things and not the right things. "

Didn't Favre state that he would give up 3 mill in his contract to acquire Moss...

Is Moss blatantly lying???

[KYPack]

Moss and his agent were given the negotiation window that Patler describes. Moss had not performed for the Raiders and they wanted out of his deal and some compensation for him. They gave Moss the shot to work a trade with other teams.

My take is the whole thing worked out for all parties.

We kept the roster room for jennings and Jones to operate in.

NE got a star reciever to help their offense,

Al Davis got more money to by that great styling gel he uses.


Let's all move on.

[woodbuck27]

I was one who advocated for signing Moss last offseason, and obviously he has produced like no other receiver in history over the course of this regular season. However, Moss's upside potential was clearly not without an equal potential for a cancerous presence if things didn't go the way he wanted them to. His continuing personal problems are also a negative weight to the team.

I think the approach taken by the organization was justified, particularly when you look at the fact that they've put together a potent receiving group without the potential cancerous presence. With the production and depth we now have, it's hard to argue we'd really be much better off with him. Someone already mentioned it, but Moss would not likely have made a big difference against the G-Men.

You can second guess every decision a GM makes. You obviously have to look at the overall body of work and the actual results.

We keep sidestepping the real issue here and turn the argument to PRO Randy Moss or not. To lay the judgement on Randy Moss based in his past. By doing this we miss the right bus out of town. We get on the wrong journey.

The real issue is.

If we wanted Randy Moss on our roster (specifically if TT did)? Then how did he slip away to NE after we are aware that TT thought that he had him on our side before retiring to bed Draft weekend - Sat. night ?

TT thought he had him? What's that about?

TT isn't paid to think he had's but to know he had's.

Now we have this reveas;ling article on TT"s method of recruitinfg that is nothing short of being purely Juvenile and an insult to the Packer Organization if it"s true.

This article on Randy Moss and why not the Green Bay Packers places the ball straight into the corner of TT's court and will be a difficult return for him. He may in his way even decide to ignore or sidestep it.

I see that as a serious error to only compound recruitment strategy's and give us the experienced talent we do need in specific positions or we just wait and wait. I hate to wait. I've waited another ten years. Favre hates to wait and the time is short in his hour glass.

The question now that any NFL player will have is:

''What kind of a person (personality) in Ted Thompson, am I going to have to deal with, if I consider Green Bay as my future team?''

[BallHawk]

The question now that any NFL player will have is:

''What kind of a person (personality) in Ted Thompson, am I going to have to deal with, if I consider Green Bay as my future team?''

Quick! Let's get our pitchforks and run the bastard out of town. :roll:

[Bretsky]

I might question TT's ability to compete and convince a big time player to come here over other teams

But he has made some good PR moves....like giving guys like Harris and Driver raises that should also be positive PR to players considering GB

[RashanGary]

I don't cast a ton of blame on TT for this. I will say, his weakest ability seems to be communication. He seems to have no clue what people want to hear (as evident by his "we'll win some games" quotes). He's just not a shmoozer. I respect that, but not everyone appreciates it.


There will be oppertunities to bring players in. I think it's important to talk them up, make them feel good about themselves and about the Packers. I'm not big on getting too many, but I would have loved to of gotten Moss. I hope TT learns because he's been pretty good in almost every other department and he's got this team on the doorstep. I'm not saying he HAS to do something this off season, but if it's there, I hope we don't miss it because the player feels underappreciated.

[Carolina_Packer]

I was one who advocated for signing Moss last offseason, and obviously he has produced like no other receiver in history over the course of this regular season. However, Moss's upside potential was clearly not without an equal potential for a cancerous presence if things didn't go the way he wanted them to. His continuing personal problems are also a negative weight to the team.

I think the approach taken by the organization was justified, particularly when you look at the fact that they've put together a potent receiving group without the potential cancerous presence. With the production and depth we now have, it's hard to argue we'd really be much better off with him. Someone already mentioned it, but Moss would not likely have made a big difference against the G-Men.

You can second guess every decision a GM makes. You obviously have to look at the overall body of work and the actual results.

We keep sidestepping the real issue here and turn the argument to PRO Randy Moss or not. To lay the judgement on Randy Moss based in his past. By doing this we miss the right bus out of town. We get on the wrong journey.

The real issue is.

If we wanted Randy Moss on our roster (specifically if TT did)? Then how did he slip away to NE after we are aware that TT thought that he had him on our side before retiring to bed Draft weekend - Sat. night ?

TT thought he had him? What's that about?

TT isn't paid to think he had's but to know he had's.

Now we have this reveas;ling article on TT"s method of recruitinfg that is nothing short of being purely Juvenile and an insult to the Packer Organization if it"s true.

This article on Randy Moss and why not the Green Bay Packers places the ball straight into the corner of TT's court and will be a difficult return for him. He may in his way even decide to ignore or sidestep it.

I see that as a serious error to only compound recruitment strategy's and give us the experienced talent we do need in specific positions or we just wait and wait. I hate to wait. I've waited another ten years. Favre hates to wait and the time is short in his hour glass.

The question now that any NFL player will have is:

''What kind of a person (personality) in Ted Thompson, am I going to have to deal with, if I consider Green Bay as my future team?''

When do you let it go, Woody? When you fall short in life, but succeed the majority of the rest of the time, do you appreciate someone constantly bringing up your failures to keep stomping on you? It does no good to keep harping on this issue as there is nothing to be gained from it. Everyone is painfully aware of how you feel about it. Move on already. Don't be a one trick pony.

[woodbuck27]

What does anyone take from his statement that he never really wanted to come to Green Bay anyway? Doesn't that kind of say it all, regardless of how he thought he was treated? The other question I would have is, how would a team be able to legally speak with a player under contract with another team who is potential trade-bait? It's one thing if they are an UFA, but another thing if they are property of another team. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I would think it would be a no-no for any team to have contact with a guy who belongs to another team. Perhaps they didn't directly speak with him, but relayed messages through Oakland to Moss' representatives.

Bottom line is, this issue has been beaten to death and if you are still hanging onto it, you need to let it go and move on. If you want to use it as ammo to villify TT, go ahead. It will do you about as good as someone still wishing Randy was coming to Green Bay. The ship has sailed long ago. Move on!

I didn't post the article.

All we really know (maybe TRUTH) is that Favre never spoke to Randy Moss and prior to this I believe we had the idea that Favre was personally all bellied up with Randy Moss and they were re-designing the play book.

Now we know it was never anywhere close to that.

We know fr. the article that Randy Moss was fine with playing with Favre and we know that it works the other way too. That's all good.

So an article is posted and it should be examined and as always happens when the heat goes on and the Nay TT side (that's really tiny) steps up, we become the fella's with two ugly heads. :)

Let's simply debate as gentlemen and gentlemaen and Ladies etc. without getting our shorts all in a bunch. Please. :) Hurling the derogatories.

No! It"s not time to move on as it's about TT"s style of doing his important job for me and OU. Us Packer fans. It's about the fans. US!!

TT will be very much under the gun this season. as TT felt he had the horses before TC this past season. Let's then take the leap. Now we can't be far out after 13-3 and losing the NFC Championship game.

A reality of having, or a fluke or a mirage? TT has to make moves now to get us there. All the heat is on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. Especially if Favre stays on.

If Favre retires then they have a back door if Aaron Rodgers doesn't fit the system. They can say it'll just take time. Well that is what this is about. . . time.

I want a Super Bowl and a GM that offers me a real plan and the parts to produce just that. Ted Thompson is in my certain view now, if Randy Moss is totally up front here too far away in his personality to ever get us to that Super Bowl game.

I want to be wrong of course but the assured reality of it is that I'm DAM well stuck with him for too much time if I'm right. the bottom line is my role is to be his critic and where I'm totally out to lunch to learn fr. all of you.

Now I can be his critic and also what I am in real life. A DAM fine person with the ability to view events,issues and managerial moves and reason and comment on it all. That's all we do here is share thoughts so let's do that without feeling it's personal.

TT is, will be always in the spotlight as he's immensely important for our elevation of success. Thus he's receive support and criticism. He's not going anywhere for awhile. For those who LOVE him he'll be OK.

[woodbuck27]

The other question I would have is, how would a team be able to legally speak with a player under contract with another team who is potential trade-bait? It's one thing if they are an UFA, but another thing if they are property of another team. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I would think it would be a no-no for any team to have contact with a guy who belongs to another team. Perhaps they didn't directly speak with him, but relayed messages through Oakland to Moss' representatives.


When a team and player under contract recognize that a trade is in the interest of both parties, the team might allow a limited window for the player to seek a trade. This usually occurs when the player has a "no trade" clause, which gives him final approval anyway, or when the trade would require the player to revise his contract to make it work. It is not uncommon. The trade ends up involving both teams and the player to make it work.

Ladies and Gentleman of PackerRats I introduce Y'all to Ted Thompson. :)

[Partial]

I don't cast a ton of blame on TT for this. I will say, his weakest ability seems to be communication. He seems to have no clue what people want to hear (as evident by his "we'll win some games" quotes). He's just not a shmoozer. I respect that, but not everyone appreciates it.


There will be oppertunities to bring players in. I think it's important to talk them up, make them feel good about themselves and about the Packers. I'm not big on getting too many, but I would have loved to of gotten Moss. I hope TT learns because he's been pretty good in almost every other department and he's got this team on the doorstep. I'm not saying he HAS to do something this off season, but if it's there, I hope we don't miss it because the player feels underappreciated.

No, he is humble and simiiar to a jedi. He rarely speaks in absolutes.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I don't cast a ton of blame on TT for this. I will say, his weakest ability seems to be communication. He seems to have no clue what people want to hear (as evident by his "we'll win some games" quotes). He's just not a shmoozer. I respect that, but not everyone appreciates it.


There will be oppertunities to bring players in. I think it's important to talk them up, make them feel good about themselves and about the Packers. I'm not big on getting too many, but I would have loved to of gotten Moss. I hope TT learns because he's been pretty good in almost every other department and he's got this team on the doorstep. I'm not saying he HAS to do something this off season, but if it's there, I hope we don't miss it because the player feels underappreciated.

No, he is humble and simiiar to a jedi. He rarely speaks in absolutes.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4666/ttyodabc1.jpg

Give me your draft picks you will.

[Patler]

Woodbuck;

Have you read the article about Wolf and his circuitous relationship getting Favre on his team?

According to Wolf, while with the Jets he had Favre ranked as the best player in the draft. The Jets had no 1st round draft choice, and figured Favre would go late first or early second. They thought they had a trade worked out a day ahead of time to move up in the draft and get him. At the last minute, just before the trade would have been announced, the other team pulled out of the trade because a player they really liked was still available. Favre didn't last to the Jets pick in the 2nd. Of course a year later Wolf got him for his team, but it was the Packers by then not the Jets.

How does Wolf thinking he had a deal enabling him to draft Favre for the Jets differ from TT thinking he had a trade for Moss? Until it is actually submitted to the NFL, either team can pull out. It happened to TT, it happened to Wolf.

[twoseven]

One point I will definitely agree with JH on.

If you want the guy you need to learn how to set the tone for getting him here.

In sales people often have to balance getting the deal with saying anything that will scare the buyer away or setting a negative tone before the deal is sealed.

This is just one bloated ego's view in RM, but if true it sounds like GB should have considered that more
Thank you Bretsky for better wording my basic point. Be it Moss or whoever, know someting about your target audience/market, including how they might be inclined to handle an interview and everything you plan to discuss with them before you start popping questions. Anybody that fails to recognize this should avoid sales as a career choice.

As I stated to begin with, RM gave his side which could be BS, maybe we did everything right, all I added is if we did not, let's figure it out before we call anyone else. For me this is not about Moss, it's wondering how we handle our communication with anyone.

This is a gross exagerration, but if we did call Briggs: do you bring up that we are set at LB and he is more of a luxury than a necessity, if he comes to play he may be on the sidelines often, he should expect to see his sack and tackle totals drop- because of this we would like to make his deal a performanced based contract, and he'd better not pull any Lamborghini stunts in GB, noting that Barnett and Hawk are our guys and Briggs better not step on their toes? Hey, maybe it is, I'm just wondering..does the want and the need mean you disclose all of your true intentions for the player upfront, or do you just close the deal and let them in on it after they are locked in? We did tell Woodson he could catch some passes, didn't we?

[MJZiggy]

You guys keep dancing around what I read in that article...IF TT wanted Moss. IF. I got the impression from that article that TT didn't even really want Moss and went into those discussions because Favre wanted him on the team. I get the impression that TT was more like those other 30 GM's than we think. And if I'm going after a malcontent that I'm not completely sold on, I'm damn sure gonna make certain he knows what's expected of him if he steps foot in my team's locker room. If he's not willing to play as a team, then let the other guys have him. Our boys did fine and in the end, I agree that Randy Moss wouldn't have gotten us any further than we got.

[GBRulz]

I agree that Randy Moss wouldn't have gotten us any further than we got.

I agree as well. Unless the guy can play CB as good as he is a WR!

[RashanGary]

No, he is humble and simiiar to a jedi. He rarely speaks in absolutes.

haha, good comparison. That is exactly what he does. I think it's honest and shows his awareness that you never really know what you have but nobody wants to hear that. Everyone wants to hear that the GM knows exactly what he has "like it's somehow possible".

[Patler]

You guys keep dancing around what I read in that article...IF TT wanted Moss. IF. I got the impression from that article that TT didn't even really want Moss and went into those discussions because Favre wanted him on the team. I get the impression that TT was more like those other 30 GM's than we think. And if I'm going after a malcontent that I'm not completely sold on, I'm damn sure gonna make certain he knows what's expected of him if he steps foot in my team's locker room. If he's not willing to play as a team, then let the other guys have him. Our boys did fine and in the end, I agree that Randy Moss wouldn't have gotten us any further than we got.

I agree, except I doubt TT was influenced that much by what Favre wanted. Wasn't there an article last spring that stated some members of the Executive Committee or the Board were real interested in Moss, and others were dead set against getting him? Perhaps TT was under a directive to gather facts about what a deal would entail.

[Carolina_Packer]

What does anyone take from his statement that he never really wanted to come to Green Bay anyway? Doesn't that kind of say it all, regardless of how he thought he was treated? The other question I would have is, how would a team be able to legally speak with a player under contract with another team who is potential trade-bait? It's one thing if they are an UFA, but another thing if they are property of another team. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I would think it would be a no-no for any team to have contact with a guy who belongs to another team. Perhaps they didn't directly speak with him, but relayed messages through Oakland to Moss' representatives.

Bottom line is, this issue has been beaten to death and if you are still hanging onto it, you need to let it go and move on. If you want to use it as ammo to villify TT, go ahead. It will do you about as good as someone still wishing Randy was coming to Green Bay. The ship has sailed long ago. Move on!

I didn't post the article.

All we really know (maybe TRUTH) is that Favre never spoke to Randy Moss and prior to this I believe we had the idea that Favre was personally all bellied up with Randy Moss and they were re-designing the play book.

Now we know it was never anywhere close to that.

We know fr. the article that Randy Moss was fine with playing with Favre and we know that it works the other way too. That's all good.

So an article is posted and it should be examined and as always happens when the heat goes on and the Nay TT side (that's really tiny) steps up, we become the fella's with two ugly heads. :)

Let's simply debate as gentlemen and gentlemaen and Ladies etc. without getting our shorts all in a bunch. Please. :) Hurling the derogatories.

No! It"s not time to move on as it's about TT"s style of doing his important job for me and OU. Us Packer fans. It's about the fans. US!!

TT will be very much under the gun this season. as TT felt he had the horses before TC this past season. Let's then take the leap. Now we can't be far out after 13-3 and losing the NFC Championship game.

A reality of having, or a fluke or a mirage? TT has to make moves now to get us there. All the heat is on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. Especially if Favre stays on.

If Favre retires then they have a back door if Aaron Rodgers doesn't fit the system. They can say it'll just take time. Well that is what this is about. . . time.

I want a Super Bowl and a GM that offers me a real plan and the parts to produce just that. Ted Thompson is in my certain view now, if Randy Moss is totally up front here too far away in his personality to ever get us to that Super Bowl game.

I want to be wrong of course but the assured reality of it is that I'm DAM well stuck with him for too much time if I'm right. the bottom line is my role is to be his critic and where I'm totally out to lunch to learn fr. all of you.

Now I can be his critic and also what I am in real life. A DAM fine person with the ability to view events,issues and managerial moves and reason and comment on it all. That's all we do here is share thoughts so let's do that without feeling it's personal.

TT is, will be always in the spotlight as he's immensely important for our elevation of success. Thus he's receive support and criticism. He's not going anywhere for awhile. For those who LOVE him he'll be OK.

I'll put it in Dr. Suess format for you...

WB: I am Woodbuck, Woodbuck I am...
TT: That Woodbuck fan, that Woodbuck fan, I do not like that Woodbuck fan.
WB: Would you, could you sign that Moss?
TT: I would not, could not sign that Moss.
WB: Would you sign him if I called your boss?
TT: Not calling my boss, not signing Moss, I do not like that Woodbuck guy, it's my job I'd like to see him try.
WB: Would you sign Moss for a 3rd?
TT: No, then of James Jones Packer fans never would have heard.
WB: Would you sign Moss on Day 2?
TT: I'll see, I'll see what I can do.
WB: Would you sign to a long term deal? Get him, get him, he's a steal.
TT: You realize that you are just a fan and that the Green Bay Packers made me the man?
WB: You suck, you suck, you never do what I say.
TT: I have, I have a different way.
WB: You are under pressure, you have much to fear.
TT: No shit Sherlock! It's like that every year.
WB: Would you, could you do as I say?
TT: I could, I could, there's no pleasing you anyway. If 13-3 did not do it for you Woodbuck, then I suggest it's you and not me and please take a flying...&%#$@

[Zool]

I'll put it in Dr. Suess format for you...

WB: I am Woodbuck, Woodbuck I am...
TT: That Woodbuck fan, that Woodbuck fan, I do not like that Woodbuck fan.
WB: Would you, could you sign that Moss?
TT: I would not, could not sign that Moss.
WB: Would you sign him if I called your boss?
TT: Not calling my boss, not signing Moss, I do not like that Woodbuck guy, it's my job I'd like to see him try.
WB: Would you sign Moss for a 3rd?
TT: No, then James Jones of Packer fans never would have heard.
WB: Would you sign Moss on Day 2?
TT: I'll see, I'll see what I can do.
WB: Would you sign to a long term deal? Get him, get him, he's a steal.
TT: You realize that you are just a fan and that the Green Bay Packers made me the man?
WB: You suck, you suck, you never do what I say.
TT: I have, I have a different way.
WB: You are under pressure, you have much to fear.
TT: No shit Sherlock! It's like that every year.
WB: Would you, could you do as I say?
TT: I could, I could, there's no pleasing you anyway. If 13-3 did not do it for you Woodbuck, then I suggest it's you and not me and please take a flying...&%#$@

Dude, whats your paypal account #?

[Cheesehead Craig]

That's hysterical Carolina!

[Scott Campbell]

Carolina popped a Woody!

[Deputy Nutz]

I'll put it in Dr. Suess format for you...

WB: I am Woodbuck, Woodbuck I am...
TT: That Woodbuck fan, that Woodbuck fan, I do not like that Woodbuck fan.
WB: Would you, could you sign that Moss?
TT: I would not, could not sign that Moss.
WB: Would you sign him if I called your boss?
TT: Not calling my boss, not signing Moss, I do not like that Woodbuck guy, it's my job I'd like to see him try.
WB: Would you sign Moss for a 3rd?
TT: No, then of James Jones Packer fans never would have heard.
WB: Would you sign Moss on Day 2?
TT: I'll see, I'll see what I can do.
WB: Would you sign to a long term deal? Get him, get him, he's a steal.
TT: You realize that you are just a fan and that the Green Bay Packers made me the man?
WB: You suck, you suck, you never do what I say.
TT: I have, I have a different way.
WB: You are under pressure, you have much to fear.
TT: No shit Sherlock! It's like that every year.
WB: Would you, could you do as I say?
TT: I could, I could, there's no pleasing you anyway. If 13-3 did not do it for you Woodbuck, then I suggest it's you and not me and please take a flying...&%#$@

POST OF THE MOTHERF*@CKING YEAR!!!!

[woodbuck27]

I might question TT's ability to compete and convince a big time player to come here over other teams

But he has made some good PR moves....like giving guys like Harris and Driver raises that should also be positive PR to players considering GB

YES!

[woodbuck27]

As usual we got more ridiculous out of Woody.

This is the bottom line. Moss said the "organization," not TT.

There YOU GO then. Proving that Randy Moss is cool.

Randy Moss didn't take the low ball approach and tell us all it ws TT he was talking to when it was DAM well TT that he was talking to.

Nice points there for Randy Moss. what a nice fella he is and the model of comportment. Again where did TT get it wrong twisted?

He didn't as he felt he'd offered enough and had Randy Moss in the bag.

Suuuuuuurrrre TT.

Packers Forever!

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck;

Have you read the article about Wolf and his circuitous relationship getting Favre on his team?

According to Wolf, while with the Jets he had Favre ranked as the best player in the draft. The Jets had no 1st round draft choice, and figured Favre would go late first or early second. They thought they had a trade worked out a day ahead of time to move up in the draft and get him. At the last minute, just before the trade would have been announced, the other team pulled out of the trade because a player they really liked was still available. Favre didn't last to the Jets pick in the 2nd. Of course a year later Wolf got him for his team, but it was the Packers by then not the Jets.

How does Wolf thinking he had a deal enabling him to draft Favre for the Jets differ from TT thinking he had a trade for Moss? Until it is actually submitted to the NFL, either team can pull out. It happened to TT, it happened to Wolf.

By Golly I think WE have a winner!! Nice job Patler.

:worship:

[woodbuck27]

You guys keep dancing around what I read in that article...IF TT wanted Moss. IF. I got the impression from that article that TT didn't even really want Moss and went into those discussions because Favre wanted him on the team. I get the impression that TT was more like those other 30 GM's than we think. And if I'm going after a malcontent that I'm not completely sold on, I'm damn sure gonna make certain he knows what's expected of him if he steps foot in my team's locker room. If he's not willing to play as a team, then let the other guys have him. Our boys did fine and in the end, I agree that Randy Moss wouldn't have gotten us any further than we got.

That's very insightful mj. Good stuff!!

That's what I like to read here at PackerRats.

Not the f,ing chop block posts or behavious that I last saw way back in Junior HS here in CANADA of course. Now of course, I know we have such a solid reputation for our manners and good sense as Canadians. To realize that, that works best. Why it amazes me, that a few of the Lad's here are somewhat (to be kind) manners challenged. Take a difference of opinion or focus different from theirs to the darkside is laughable to pathetic.

[woodbuck27]

The question now that any NFL player will have is:

''What kind of a person (personality) in Ted Thompson, am I going to have to deal with, if I consider Green Bay as my future team?''

Quick! Let's get our pitchforks and run the bastard out of town. :roll:

DAM well stuck with him for too many moons. :)

[woodbuck27]

I agree that Randy Moss wouldn't have gotten us any further than we got.

I agree as well. Unless the guy can play CB as good as he is a WR!

Bang On!!! A let's go to the heart of it, no sidestepping post.

TT souldn't have been faking the Randy Moss aquisition but trading Al Harris ( a mannequin gives us more at LCB ) and a bunch of cash and that 4th for Plaxico Burress.

and. . . Plaxico is telling us today, that the Pats and Randy Moss are toast.

If we can just get TT to STOP FAKING IT!!! We'll be so much better off.

[Scott Campbell]

Why it amazes me, that a few of the Lad's here are somewhat (to be kind) manners challenged.



Now you're Miss Manners too? What a joke.

[woodbuck27]

I'll put it in Dr. Suess format for you...

WB: I am Woodbuck, Woodbuck I am...
TT: That Woodbuck fan, that Woodbuck fan, I do not like that Woodbuck fan.
WB: Would you, could you sign that Moss?
TT: I would not, could not sign that Moss.
WB: Would you sign him if I called your boss?
TT: Not calling my boss, not signing Moss, I do not like that Woodbuck guy, it's my job I'd like to see him try.
WB: Would you sign Moss for a 3rd?
TT: No, then of James Jones Packer fans never would have heard.
WB: Would you sign Moss on Day 2?
TT: I'll see, I'll see what I can do.
WB: Would you sign to a long term deal? Get him, get him, he's a steal.
TT: You realize that you are just a fan and that the Green Bay Packers made me the man?
WB: You suck, you suck, you never do what I say.
TT: I have, I have a different way.
WB: You are under pressure, you have much to fear.
TT: No shit Sherlock! It's like that every year.
WB: Would you, could you do as I say?


** TT: I could, I could, there's no pleasing you anyway. If 13-3 did not do it for you Woodbuck, then I suggest it's you and not me and please take a flying...&%#$@

I almost gave you a decent mark until your attempt at something resembling writing prose went down the toilet with ** that last part.

You can't touch me appleseed.

[woodbuck27]

I was one who advocated for signing Moss last offseason, and obviously he has produced like no other receiver in history over the course of this regular season. However, Moss's upside potential was clearly not without an equal potential for a cancerous presence if things didn't go the way he wanted them to. His continuing personal problems are also a negative weight to the team.

I think the approach taken by the organization was justified, particularly when you look at the fact that they've put together a potent receiving group without the potential cancerous presence. With the production and depth we now have, it's hard to argue we'd really be much better off with him. Someone already mentioned it, but Moss would not likely have made a big difference against the G-Men.

You can second guess every decision a GM makes. You obviously have to look at the overall body of work and the actual results.

We keep sidestepping the real issue here and turn the argument to PRO Randy Moss or not. To lay the judgement on Randy Moss based in his past. By doing this we miss the right bus out of town. We get on the wrong journey.

The real issue is.

If we wanted Randy Moss on our roster (specifically if TT did)? Then how did he slip away to NE after we are aware that TT thought that he had him on our side before retiring to bed Draft weekend - Sat. night ?

TT thought he had him? What's that about? TT isn't paid to think he had's but to know he had's. Now we have this revealing article on TT's method of recruiting that is nothing short of being purely Juvenile, an insult to the Packer Organization if it's true.

This article on Randy Moss and why not the Green Bay Packers places the ball straight into the corner of TT's court and will be a difficult return for him. He may in his way even decide to ignore or sidestep it.

I see that as a serious error to only compound recruitment strategy's and give us the experienced talent we do need in specific positions or we just wait and wait. I hate to wait. I've waited another ten years. Favre hates to wait, the time is short in his hour glass.

The question now that any NFL player will have is:

''What kind of a person (personality) in Ted Thompson, am I going to have to deal with, if I consider Green Bay as my future team?''

When do you let it go, Woody? When you fall short in life, but succeed the majority of the rest of the time, do you appreciate someone constantly bringing up your failures to keep stomping on you? It does no good to keep harping on this issue as there is nothing to be gained from it. Everyone is painfully aware of how you feel about it. Move on already. Don't be a one trick pony.

DAM! DAM!! DAM!!!

For F_ _ _ S _ _ _'s

ONE TRICK PONY??? I'm just hoping we can all land on the same DAM page and understand this mystery man we don't know as Ted Thompson.

This isn't Rocket Science, merely a probe (again) into what makes TT tick? A lot of you take it as if I've called your Mother a rotten whatever. Made some insulting remark or joke against your wife and kids.

Lighten up fellas and lets see where this thread takes us. I actually believe we're making progress.

K?

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Carolina_Packer]

I almost gave you a decent mark until your attempt at something resembling writing prose went down the toilet with ** that last part.

You can't touch me appleseed.

Prose? That's poetry, Buckaroo!

And please, if you are going to swear, at least spell it right. It's Damn, not Dam. One is a curse, the other is holds water, unlike many of your opinions.

[woodbuck27]

Why it amazes me, that a few of the Lad's here are somewhat (to be kind) manners challenged.



Now you're Miss Manners too? What a joke.

Scott I know that isn't something you'll readily recognize with your many styles of blinders on.

In fact Scott Campbell I'm a very fine person and an exquisite gentleman and DAM proud of it all.

See Scott for what it wouldn't be worth to you. I was fortunate to have a fine upbringing. I owe it all to that. Well the manners anyway, and the rest of the positives are genetic. :D

[woodbuck27]

I almost gave you a decent mark until your attempt at something resembling writing prose went down the toilet with ** that last part.

You can't touch me appleseed.

Prose? That's poetry, Buckaroo!

And please, if you are going to swear, at least spell it right. It's Damn, not Dam. One is a curse, the other is holds water, unlike many of your opinions.

Poetry? mmmmmm. Where's the rhyme and, or the reason?

Damn! Your Damn right for a change in American. :D

Come up here to Oh Canada and we'll teach you another way to spell.

[Scott Campbell]

In fact Scott Campbell I'm a very fine person and an exquisite gentleman and DAM proud of it all.



I don't believe any of it, except for the (false) pride part.

[woodbuck27]

In fact Scott Campbell I'm a very fine person and an exquisite gentleman and DAM proud of it all.



I don't believe any of it, except for the (false) pride part.

Whatever Scott. Now crawl into another sandbox please. Your boreing me.

[twoseven]

The way I read that, is if the Packers made Moss feel welcome and told him they'd love to have a spectacular talent like him on the team he'd be here. Instead they tried to tell him he was worse than Driver and better thank us for giving him a chance.

Yeah right. Moss might be the greatest offensive weapon to ever play the game.
We only got RM's side of the phone call, but if it's remotely true our guys need some work on their salemenship/wooing skills. I too love to be reminded of my shortcomings and have people suggest I toe the line as someone is negotiating that I come and work with them. :roll:

I totally agree. I don't think that if we pursue guys like Ricky Williams, Viking RB (fake urine), Odell Thurman, etc. that we should ever talk with them about their past, how they will fit in, team chemistry, etc. That is just stupid.

Just sign them and be done with it. :roll:
What was I thinking, if anyone could convince Rickey Williams to give up his weed it would be TT and the GBP. :wink:

TT: Rickey?
RW:Yeah TT?
TT: We want your abilities at RB but you can't smoke weed in GB.
RW: But everyone knows I smoke and can't quit, why bring it up?
TT: Yeah, I know, but we haven't given you OUR lecture yet.
RW: I suppose.
TT: I'll make it easy, do you promise to give it up as long as you are in GB?
RW: Hmm. Sure.
TT: Scout's honor?
RW: Huh, waddaya mean? Um, I bought weed from a scout once I think.
TT: Jamboree, I bet, they have these fundraisers every year.
RW: Cool.
TT: Umm, forget the scouts, pinky swear?
RW: Sure, pinky swear.
TT: One more thing Rickey
RW: Uh huh?
TT: Ryan Grant is our RB, oustanding kid, great season he just had!
RW: Uh huh..
TT: Don't step on his toes, Ok? He's the man here.
RW: Ok, but won't that settle itself on the field?
TT: Probably, but I feel like I need to tell you upfront, ya know?
RW: Put me in my place even though I might have more talent?
TT: Exactly! By the way..
RW: Yes?
TT: Nobody else on this team smokes weed either.
RW: Ok?
TT: Just don't want you, ya know, being a bad influence on teammates.
RW: But they're grown men and professionals..
TT: I know, but I'm kind of like their dad, you understand.
RW: Got it. Do you handle all your FAs like this?
TT: Only the troublemakers.
RW: How's it working out so far?
TT: We've only signed four FAs in three years, but no troublemakers.
RW: Great, great.
TT: Yep, and we've got a great feeling about you.
RW: Right, right..
TT: I hear you have a wonderful pregame ritual..meditation or something?
RW: Uh, yeah, it's meditation, that's what it is.
TT: Sounds fabulous, you'll have to show me sometime.
RW: (snickers) I just might do that. Do you like Cheetohs?
TT: I'm an Old Dutch man, myself.
RW: Old school cat, I'm feelin' ya.
TT: So, Rickey.. big guy.. my man..... no more weed, riggggght?
RW: I haven't been able to shake it anywhere else, but GB seems different.
TT: Spectacular, Rickey, glad that's settled (walks away)
RW: Me too..(chuckles to himself as he rolls one)

[Scott Campbell]

Your boreing me.


I will endeavour to be more entertaining. Count on it.

[Scott Campbell]

.


Edited for more appropriate Koren Robinson reference.





What was I thinking, if anyone could convince Koren Robinson to give up his booze it would be TT and the GBP. :wink:

TT: Koren?
KR:Yeah TT?
TT: We want your abilities at WR but you can't drink booze in GB.
KR: But everyone knows I drink and can't quit, why bring it up?
TT: Yeah, I know, but we haven't given you OUR lecture yet.
KR: I suppose.
TT: I'll make it easy, do you promise to give it up as long as you are in GB?
KR: Hmm. Sure.
TT: Scout's honor?
KR: Huh, waddaya mean? Um, I bought booze from a scout once I think.
TT: Jamboree, I bet, they have these fundraisers every year.
KR: Cool.
TT: Umm, forget the scouts, pinky swear?
KR: Sure, pinky swear.
TT: One more thing Koren.
KR: Uh huh?
TT: Greg Jennings is our #2 WR, oustanding kid, great season he just had!
KR: Uh huh..
TT: Don't step on his toes, Ok? He's the man here.
KR: Ok, but won't that settle itself on the field?
TT: Probably, but I feel like I need to tell you upfront, ya know?
KR: Put me in my place even though I might have more talent?
TT: Exactly! By the way..
KR: Yes?
TT: Nobody else on this team has multiple DUI's either.
KR: Ok?
TT: Just don't want you, ya know, being a bad influence on teammates.
KR: But they're grown men and professionals..
TT: I know, but I'm kind of like their dad, you understand.
KR: Got it. Do you handle all your FAs like this?
TT: Only the troublemakers.
KR: How's it working out so far?
TT: We're going to the NFC Championship game. Do you want in or not?
KR: Great, great.
TT: Yep, and we've got a great feeling about you.
KR: Right, right..
TT: I hear you have a wonderful pregame ritual..meditation or something?
KR: Uh, yeah, it's meditation, that's what it is.
TT: Sounds fabulous, you'll have to show me sometime.
KR: (snickers) I just might do that. Do you like Cheetohs?
TT: I'm an Old Dutch man, myself.
KR: Old school cat, I'm feelin' ya.
TT: So, Koren.. big guy.. my man..... no more booze, riggggght?
KR: I haven't been able to shake it anywhere else, but GB seems different.
TT: Spectacular, Koren, glad that's settled.
KR: Me too. Thanks for taking a chance on me Ted. Where do I sign?

[the_idle_threat]

The article is here:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=713137

Read it, and you might notice something. For any of you who are using this story to bash TT over the head, the guy Moss actually talked to was McCarthy, not TT. Now, surely TT was involved in negotiations with the agent and he had the ultimate responsibility, but it sounds like it was M3's tough, no nonsense style that really turned Randy off. It's known that the same style had a similar effect on Charles Woodson at first.

Anybody who reads this story as a failure on TT's part without sharing the "blame" liberally with M3 is just reading an agenda into it and ignoring the facts.

I don't have a problem with how it turned out. As Patler pointed out, everybody won. The Raiders were as happy as they could have been given the situation in getting something for Moss. Moss went to the team he preferred. The Packers ended up with an outstanding WR corps anyway and no looming locker room cancer on a young team with a young coach.

[woodbuck27]

Your boreing me.


I will endeavour to be more entertaining. Count on it.

If your ability to entertain 10% equaled your obsession ** to stalk I'd refer you to Vegas Scott.

** What is it about that anyway Scottie? Did you find a Pic of me on the Net and get turned on?

You sassy boy! :)

[Scott Campbell]

Did you find a Pic of me on the Net and get turned on?


You got me. I have a fetish for grumpy old men in diapers.

:lol:

[Partial]

The point is they felt him out and Moss wasn't into it. That's not a failure imo. There's no room for a Rodger Clements on this team. No one should get special treatment. Not even Brett.

[cpk1994]

The point is they felt him out and Moss wasn't into it. That's not a failure imo. There's no room for a Rodger Clements on this team. No one should get special treatment. Not even Brett.

Who is Rodger Clements? Roger Clemens, I know, but Rodger Clements? :D

[woodbuck27]

The article is here:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=713137

Read it, and you might notice something. For any of you who are using this story to bash TT over the head, the guy Moss actually talked to was McCarthy, not TT. Now, surely TT was involved in negotiations with the agent and he had the ultimate responsibility, but it sounds like it was M3's tough, no nonsense style that really turned Randy off. It's known that the same style had a similar effect on Charles Woodson at first.

Anybody who reads this story as a failure on TT's part without sharing the "blame" liberally with M3 is just reading an agenda into it and ignoring the facts.

I don't have a problem with how it turned out. As Patler pointed out, everybody won. The Raiders were as happy as they could have been given the situation in getting something for Moss. Moss went to the team he preferred. The Packers ended up with an outstanding WR corps anyway and no looming locker room cancer on a young team with a young coach.

I'll lay the meat of it down here:

Were things a little bit different nine months ago, Moss might have been doing his winning in Green Bay.

The Packers reached a tentative agreement with the Oakland Raiders to send a fifth-round draft choice for Moss and were given permission to negotiate a new contract with him. Under the terms of his deal with the Raiders, Moss was scheduled to make base salaries of $9.75 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008.

The Packers wanted to cut his salary down to less than $3 million.

On the Friday before the draft, Moss' agent arranged for his client to speak to coach Mike McCarthy on the telephone.

Moss didn't like what he heard.

Asked what he considered the "wrong things" the Packers were talking about, Moss said, "It was like they were telling me that they're going to take a chance on me, but if you do come here these are the things you have to work out:

'Be on your best behavior; Donald Driver is the top receiver here so don't come in there trying to step on his toes.' Things like that.

"I didn't think that was right because my whole career things have been taken out of (context) at times, but at the end of the day all I wanted to do was win games. I don't feel they (the Packers) really wanted me. Brett wanted me, but I don't think the Packers' organization wanted me."

The Packers, in fact, were interested in Moss, but McCarthy had a young team and didn't want the mercurial receiver disrupting his clubhouse and setting a bad example the way he had through various stages of his time in Minnesota and Oakland.

"Is it too much to ask a guy to be a good citizen?" McCarthy said.

"I think that's reasonable. He and I talked about fit. I said,

'I think No. 1, is this a good fit for you and a good fit for us?' We talked about how we would use him, the starting point once he got here. But I don't recall ever having a conversation where we gave him conditions ."

Contrary to reports that Favre had spoken to Moss in an attempt to recruit him, Moss said he and Favre never talked.

At the same time all of that was going on, the Patriots were reconsidering their interest in Moss and decided on Saturday of the draft to up the ante to a fourth-round pick. They offered Moss a one-year, $3 million deal that unlike the Packers' offer wasn't tied to meeting various performance levels.

Before the Packers knew it, Moss was a New England Patriot.

After reportedly talking to quarterback Tom Brady several times, Moss became convinced he had found the right team.

"I'm still loving what I do and being here, being a New England Patriot. I think this is were I do want to be," Moss said.

"Hopefully, we can work something out after this season is over. "The sky is the limit. I would love to retire a Patriot."

OK. :)

It's all about '' The facts Mame, Just the facts.''

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

Did you find a Pic of me on the Net and get turned on?


You got me. I have a fetish for grumpy old men in diapers.

:lol:

Hey Junior!

I can always get YOU. Set you up easily with just YOU Scott.

[Scott Campbell]

I can always get YOU. Set you up easily with just YOU Scott.


Once again, I'm not quite sure what the hell you're rambling about. I'm sure it was quite devestating in your own mind. But your efforts are somewhat wasted unless other people can interpret your "writing".

Complete sentences are your friend Woody.

[woodbuck27]

I can always get YOU. Set you up easily with just YOU Scott.


Once again, I'm not quite sure what the hell you're rambling about. I'm sure it was quite devestating in your own mind. But your efforts are somewhat wasted unless other people can interpret your "writing".

Complete sentences are your friend Woody.

Scott isn't that just your way. Like a snake slides under the rock.

Take a break poor fella. :) Don't you get tired trying to pull down my pants with the left hand with boot polish in the right?

Relax sonny. Rest your small mind.

Maybe you have a barnraising or maybe an ice in to attend tomorrow? Give the wives a hand with those pies. Be useful.

[woodbuck27]

The article is here:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=713137

Read it, and you might notice something. For any of you who are using this story to bash TT over the head, the guy Moss actually talked to was McCarthy, not TT. Now, surely TT was involved in negotiations with the agent and he had the ultimate responsibility, but it sounds like it was M3's tough, no nonsense style that really turned Randy off. It's known that the same style had a similar effect on Charles Woodson at first.

Anybody who reads this story as a failure on TT's part without sharing the "blame" liberally with M3 is just reading an agenda into it and ignoring the facts.

I don't have a problem with how it turned out. As Patler pointed out, everybody won. The Raiders were as happy as they could have been given the situation in getting something for Moss. Moss went to the team he preferred. The Packers ended up with an outstanding WR corps anyway and no looming locker room cancer on a young team with a young coach.

Well with that the_idle_threat, I'm outta here! :)

[Bossman641]

I can always get YOU. Set you up easily with just YOU Scott.


Once again, I'm not quite sure what the hell you're rambling about. I'm sure it was quite devestating in your own mind. But your efforts are somewhat wasted unless other people can interpret your "writing".

Complete sentences are your friend Woody.

Scott isn't that just your way. Like a snake slides under the rock.

Take a break poor fella. :) Don't you get tired trying to pull down my pants with the left hand with boot polish in the right?

Relax sonny. Rest your small mind.

Maybe you have a barnraising or maybe an ice in to attend tomorrow? Give the wives a hand with those pies. Be useful.

????

[MadtownPacker]

So does every fucking thread have to evolve into a Woody/Campbell bitchfest?