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RashanGary
02-05-2008, 06:48 PM
1. Miami Dolphins -- Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
Record: 1-15 | Needs: OT, DL, ILB, CB, QB
Previous mock selection: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
Assuming for our purposes that the Dolphins are unable to trade down, they will have a difficult decision to make between Ryan, DE Chris Long, OT Jake Long and DT Glenn Dorsey. Either of the Longs makes sense, considering offensive tackle and defensive line are two of the team's biggest needs. Dorsey is considered by many to be the No. 2 player in this year's class, but he's not an ideal fit for a 3-4 defensive scheme and it doesn't make financial sense to spend No. 1-type money on a lineman who will be asked to take up space. That's why Ryan makes a lot of sense.


At the end of the day, it will come down to Bill Parcells' opinion of current Miami QB John Beck, whom the former Dolphins regime drafted in the second round last year. If Parcells thinks he can win with Beck, Jake Long would be the next best option, followed by Chris Long, then Dorsey. If not, Ryan should be the selection. He has all the physical tools of a franchise quarterback and, most importantly, he possesses rare intangibles.



2. St. Louis Rams -- Chris Long, DE, Virginia
Record: 3-13 | Needs: DE, G/OT, CB, OLB, WR
Previous mock selection: Same
The season-ending injury to perennial Pro Bowl tackle Orlando Pace and the Rams' overall poor play along the offensive line in 2007-08 make Jake Long a possibility with this pick. But assuming Pace returns to form, the Rams have a much bigger need along the interior of their offensive line, and tackle can be addressed in free agency or in later rounds of the draft.

Don't be surprised, then, if St. Louis goes with the other Long at No. 2. Chris is not a prototypical edge rusher, but he is a dominant playmaker with rare versatility and a motor that never quits. The Rams could solidify their defensive line for years to come by teaming him with last year's first-round selection, DT Adam Carriker.


3. Atlanta Falcons** -- Darren McFadden*, RB, Arkansas
Record: 4-12 | Needs: QB, OT, DT, RB, S
Previous mock selection: Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
Ryan should be the Falcons' selection if he is available, but if he is not, Atlanta will have to make a difficult decision among McFadden, Dorsey and Jake Long. The team has needs at all three positions, so this would be tough choice. McFadden is the top prospect on most teams' draft boards, though, so it is easy to envision this scenario playing out. McFadden could provide the type of offensive boost for the Falcons that Adrian Peterson gave the Vikings last season. That type of potential is tough to pass up.


4. Oakland Raiders** -- Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
Record: 4-12 | Needs: OT, DT, WR, DE, RB
Previous mock selection: Darren McFadden*, RB, Arkansas
The Raiders are financially strapped and will not want to dish out top-five money one year after selecting QB JaMarcus Russell with the top overall pick. If McFadden still is on the board, don't count out a blockbuster trade by owner Al Davis, since Cowboys owner and Arkansas alum Jerry Jones already has made his interest known. If Oakland is stuck here with McFadden gone, it will need to choose between Dorsey and Jake Long. While Long is worth the pick, Dorsey is the higher-rated player. He could provide the type of interior disruption the Raiders' defense has been lacking and fill in nicely for Warren Sapp, who announced his retirement following the 2007 season.


5. Kansas City Chiefs** -- Jake Long, OT, Michigan
Record: 4-12 | Needs: OT, DE, C, WR, CB
Previous mock selection: Same
Quarterback still is a question mark, but the Chiefs' No. 1 priority this offseason should be solidifying their offensive front. Long is unquestionably the most dominant offensive lineman in the 2008 class and could help Kansas City achieve its goal in a hurry. He has the versatility to play either right or left tackle, and his combination of size, technique, athletic ability and a mean streak would improve the Chiefs' line almost immediately.


6. New York Jets -- Vernon Gholston*, DE, Ohio State
Record: 4-12 | Needs: WR, NT, OLB, ILB, G
Projected pick: Same
This could be a bit of a reach for Gholston, who flashes top-10 talent in some games (three sacks against Michigan this season) but disappears in too many others. However, don't be surprised if he works his way into the top 10 simply because this year's crop of elite edge rushers does not meet the level of demand. That said, Gholston is one of the premier pass-rushing prospects in the 2008 class, and he would be the right fit as a rush linebacker in the Jets' 3-4 scheme.




7. N.E. Patriots (from 5-11 San Francisco) -- Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
Record: 18-1 | Needs: ILB, CB, OLB, OL depth
Previous mock selection: Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
The Patriots would like to inject some youth at inside linebacker, but there isn't a player worth selecting this high, with USC's Rey Maualuga and Ohio State's James Laurinaitis both returning to school in the fall. The next priority is to find a replacement for Asante Samuel, a free agent who can't be franchised for a second consecutive year. McKelvin currently is the top-rated cornerback in a 2008 crop that is deep but lacks elite talent atop the board. As always, look for the Patriots to shop this pick heavily.


8. Baltimore Ravens -- Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
Record: 5-11 | Needs: CB, QB, OLB, LOT, DT
Previous mock selection: Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville
Baltimore would like to use this pick to put an end to a seemingly endless pursuit for a franchise quarterback. Unfortunately, there isn't one worth selecting here with Ryan off the board. Instead, the Ravens could go with the best value on the board (Ellis) or fill a hole at either cornerback (Mike Jenkins) or left tackle (Ryan Clady). Knowing the Ravens' draft-day discipline, Ellis will be the pick in this scenario.




9. Cincinnati Bengals -- Derrick Harvey*, DE, Florida
Record: 7-9 | Needs: DT, LB, OT, DE, TE
Previous mock selection: Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
The Bengals have a much bigger need for interior help, but if Dorsey and Ellis are gone, there isn't a defensive tackle worth drafting at No. 9. Harvey is a bit of a reach here, but coach Marvin Lewis' defense is starving for potential playmakers, and Harvey possesses the pass-rushing skills and frame to develop into an impact starter in the NFL.




10. New Orleans Saints -- Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
Record: 7-9 | Needs: CB, MLB, DT, OLB, TE
Previous mock selection: Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina
Cornerback and linebacker are the Saints' biggest areas of need, and Jenkins is the best athlete available at those positions. His combination of size, speed and athleticism is outstanding, and his recognition skills continue to improve each season. Jenkins also brings versatility to the table, since he can play some safety and chip in on returns. If New Orleans uses this pick on a corner, it should find much better value at linebacker early in Round 2.




11. Buffalo Bills -- Malcolm Kelly*, WR, Oklahoma
Record: 7-9 | Needs: WR, CB, TE, LB, DT
Previous mock selection: DeSean Jackson*, WR, California
Kelly is the type of big receiver the Bills need as a complement to current wideout Lee Evans. Kelly is unusually fluid for a bigger wideout and he might have the strongest hands of any player in the 2008 draft. However, Jackson could join forces with RB Marshawn Lynch to give Buffalo one of the most exciting young offensive skill groups in the NFL.


12. Denver Broncos -- Ryan Clady*, OT, Boise State
Record: 7-9 | Needs: OT, DT, S, MLB, G
Previous mock selection: Same
Clady still is improving his strength, but he possesses impressive feet to go along with his enormous wingspan and huge frame. He would be an ideal fit in Denver's famed zone-blocking scheme and give a boost to the Broncos' running game.


13. Carolina Panthers -- Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
Record: 7-9 | Needs: QB, DE, OT, WR, OLB
Previous mock selection: Calais Campbell*, DE, Miami
Instead of drafting a young signal-caller who will need time to develop, look for the Panthers to bring in veteran competition for current QB Matt Moore, who showed some positive signs late in the season. Drafting a defensive end like Campbell to fill a need is a possibility, but don't be surprised if the team looks to fill a hole at offensive tackle, where Travelle Wharton and Jordan Gross are set to become free agents.


14. Chicago Bears -- Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville
Record: 7-9 | Needs: QB, LOT, DT, G, RB
Previous mock selection: Andre' Woodson, QB, Kentucky
The Bears will have a tough decision to make if Brohm still is available at No. 14. There has been a lot of talk about the Bears going in a different direction with this pick, including offensive and defensive tackle. And while that makes a lot of sense, I still wouldn't rule out Brohm just yet. His stock is likely to soar between now and April's draft because he should impress scouts with his overall passing efficiency and football intelligence during the combine and individual workouts.


15. Detroit Lions -- Aqib Talib*, CB, Kansas
Record: 7-9 | Needs: ROT, G, CB, S, DE
Projected pick: Same
The Lions will be selecting outside of the top 10 for the first time since 2001, and now the trick is to find quality players this far down the line. The Lions' secondary is undermanned and would welcome the services of Talib, who is a versatile, fluid athlete with excellent size and ball skills. His elite athleticism was on display when returned an interception 100 yards for a touchdown this season, and he also saw some snaps on offense.


16. Arizona Cardinals -- Rashard Mendenhall*, RB, Illinois
Record: 8-8 | Needs: CB, OLB, TE, RB, DE
Previous mock selection: Jonathan Stewart*, RB, Oregon
The Cardinals have more pressing needs on the other side of the ball -- defensive tackle and cornerback -- but there isn't an available player at those positions who is as valuable as Mendenhall. He has the size, burst and versatility to eventually develop into an every-down starter. In the meantime, Mendenhall and Edgerrin James would make a heck of a 1-2 punch for the next year or two.


17. Minnesota Vikings -- DeSean Jackson*, WR/RS, California
Record: 8-8 | Needs: DE, WR, S, QB, TE
Previous mock selection: Derrick Harvey*, DE, Florida
Believe it or not, Minnesota still is in the market for help at wide receiver and defensive end, despite investing first- or second-round picks in the past four drafts on WRs Troy Williamson (2005) and Sidney Rice (2007), and DEs Kenechi Udeze (2004) and Erasmus James (2005). Jackson still has room to improve as a route runner, and he must get stronger in order to endure a grueling 16-game NFL schedule, but his home run ability after the catch, on vertical routes and on punt returns will be tempting for teams drafting in the top 20 overall.


18. Houston Texans -- Jonathan Stewart*, RB, Oregon
Record: 8-8 | Needs: CB, RB, WR, S, LOT, G
Previous mock selection: Kenny Phillips*, S, Miami
The Texans need a featured back to go along with QB Matt Schaub and WR Andre Johnson, and Stewart has the bulk, burst and versatility to quickly fill that role. He also could offer a boost in the kickoff return game.


19. Philadelphia Eagles -- Calais Campbell*, DE, Miami
Record: 8-8 | Needs: WR, TE, DE, OT/G, S, LB
Previous mock selection: Malcolm Kelly*, WR, Oklahoma
Philadelphia OTs Jon Runyan and William Thomas aren't getting any younger, so Pittsburgh OT Jeff Otah is a possibility here. The Eagles also are in search of a home run threat at wide receiver, so don't count out Michigan's Mario Manningham. However, there aren't that many 6-foot-8, 280-pound defensive ends with Campbell's athleticism coming out of the college ranks these days, so don't be surprised if the Eagles take a flyer on this unpolished but supremely talented end.


20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Mario Manningham*, WR, Michigan
Record: 9-7 | Needs: WR, OT, OLB, CB, QB
Previous mock selection: Sam Baker, OT, USC
Coach John Gruden will be pressing general manager Bruce Allen for a young playmaker at wide receiver, and Allen knows Manningham is capable of special things in the NFL. If Manningham gets with a coach like Gruden at the next level, he could emerge as the most productive wideout from a very talented 2008 class.




21. Washington Redskins -- Phillip Merling*, DE, Clemson
Record: 9-7 | Needs: WR, DE, S, OT, CB
Previous mock selection: Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
Sweed is a possibility here since wide receiver is on the short list of big needs for the Redskins, but Merling is a fast-rising junior prospect who is shooting up the draft boards of many NFL teams. The more we study film of him, the more we like his combination of size (6-4, 275), power and agility, and his ability to get into opposing backfields. Merling has the tools to become an impact starter in the next couple of seasons and would fill an area of need for Washington.


22. Dallas Cowboys (from 10-6 Cleveland) -- Sam Baker, OT, USC
Record: 13-3 | Needs: CB, WR, OT, RB, ILB
Previous mock selection: Mario Manningham*, WR, Michigan
Assuming owner Jerry Jones doesn't package picks to trade up, expect Dallas to use its two picks to address needs at corner, receiver, offensive tackle and possibly running back. Baker's stock is dropping after an injury-plagued senior season and a mediocre showing at the Senior Bowl, but he possesses the athleticism and technique to surprise a lot of people at the next level.


23. Pittsburgh Steelers -- Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
Record: 10-6 | Needs: OT, C, DE (3-4), G, RB
Previous mock selection: Same
The Steelers could use two of their first three picks on offensive linemen. They have bigger holes to fill inside, but Otah is far and away the best lineman available in this scenario. Interior help is available for a good value in later rounds (Oregon State G Roy Schuening, and centers Mike Pollak of Arizona State and John Sullivan of Notre Dame).


24. Tennessee Titans -- Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
Record: 10-6 | Needs: WR, CB, TE, WR, OL
Previous mock selection: Early Doucet, WR, LSU
The Titans need to draft a legitimate weapon for QB Vince Young to target in the passing attack, and who would be better than Young's former college teammate? Sweed could slip a bit due to a wrist injury that cut his senior season short and was re-aggravated at the Senior Bowl. However, when Sweed is healthy, he is arguably the most physically gifted receiver in this year's class. The 6-4, 217-pounder is worth the risk, in my opinion.


25. Seattle Seahawks -- Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina
Record: 10-6 | Needs: ROT, DT, RB, TE, G
Previous mock selection: Rashard Mendenhall*, RB, Illinois
It is unlikely current Seattle starting RB Shaun Alexander will ever return to his 2005 MVP form, and backup Maurice Morris has proved to be at his best when limited to a complementary role. However, with McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall all off the board, look for the Seahawks to go in a different direction here. Balmer is a fast-rising prospect with very good size, power and quickness. He would be a welcome addition to Seattle's thin interior defensive line.


26. Jacksonville Jaguars -- Early Doucet, WR, LSU
Record: 11-5 | Needs: WR, DE, SS, CB
Previous mock selection: Quentin Groves, DE, Auburn
The Jaguars should use this pick on the best available receiver or pass-rusher. Groves will be a possibility if he checks out physically at the combine. Doucet is another solid choice this late in the first round, however. While he is unlikely to emerge as anything more than a No. 2 receiver in the NFL, Doucet possesses the quickness and run-after-catch ability to complement Jacksonville's group of bigger receivers.


27. San Diego Chargers -- Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
Record: 11-5 | Needs: RG/ROT, NT, FB, RB
Previous mock selection: Dan Connor, MLB, Penn State
The Chargers can select the best available athlete if they want, but the right side of their offensive line could use an upgrade, and Cherilus projects as a solid starting right tackle in the NFL. Cherilus' stock is on the rise following his impressive showing at the Senior Bowl.


28. Dallas Cowboys -- Felix Jones*, RB, Arkansas
Record: 13-3 | Needs: CB, WR, OT, ILB, RB
Previous mock selection: Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
If owner Jerry Jones can't strike a deal for McFadden, he could settle for Arkansas' other first-round running back prospect. Felix Jones is a speedster who could complement current Dallas RB Marion Barber well and provide a home run threat in the return game.


29. S.F. 49ers (from 13-3 Indianapolis) -- James Hardy*, WR, Indiana
Record: 5-11 | Needs: WR, OT, OLB, DE, QB
Previous mock selection: Same
San Francisco needs a playmaker at wide receiver to take the attention away from TE Vernon Davis and pressure off QB Alex Smith. Hardy comes with some baggage and he needs some polishing, but no receiver in this class possesses a more imposing combination of size and natural athleticism.


30. Green Bay Packers -- Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tenn. St.
Record: 13-3 | Needs: CB, OT, S, TE, PT
Previous mock selection: Fred Davis, TE, USC
Packers QB Brett Favre certainly would welcome the addition of a tight end like Davis, who can stretch the seam and generate yards after the catch. However, the team has a more pressing need in the defensive secondary, and Rodgers-Cromartie is one of the fastest-rising prospects in the 2008 class right now. The small-school product proved capable of playing with the big boys at the Senior Bowl, where he demonstrated outstanding versatility and athleticism playing both free safety and cornerback throughout the week.


31. N.E. Patriots -- Pick forfeited
Record: 18-1 | Needs: ILB, CB, OLB, OL depth
Previous mock selection: Same
The Patriots lost this pick as part of the penalty handed down for illegally taping Jets coaches from the sideline in Week 1.


26. New York Giants -- Keith Rivers, OLB, USC
Record: 10-6 | Needs: OLB, CB, S, OT, DT
Previous mock selection: Same
The Giants are in need of an immediate and legitimate upgrade at linebacker, and Rivers is instinctive and athletic enough to contribute immediately on the weak side. They also could use a quick, explosive back who would complement current Giants power back Brandon Jacobs, so keep an eye on this selection.

packinpatland
02-05-2008, 07:00 PM
31. N.E. Patriots -- Pick forfeited
Record: 18-1 | Needs: ILB, CB, OLB, OL depth
Previous mock selection: Same
The Patriots lost this pick as part of the penalty handed down for illegally taping Jets coaches from the sideline in Week 1.

I had to read that several times................. :violin: just pulls on my heart strings. :wink:

b bulldog
02-05-2008, 07:15 PM
My bet is that Cromartie will be off the board by our pick if we stay put.

Deputy Nutz
02-05-2008, 07:23 PM
Besides, now that he has been linked to the Packers in several mock drafts TT will use him to trade down for more picks.

b bulldog
02-05-2008, 07:35 PM
Good point

PackerPro42
02-05-2008, 10:16 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

BallHawk
02-05-2008, 10:25 PM
I don't like hyphenated last names. Keep him out of Green Bay.

BF4MVP
02-05-2008, 10:31 PM
nfldraftcountdown.com has us taking cromartie too.

Deputy Nutz
02-05-2008, 11:18 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.

Merlin
02-06-2008, 01:12 AM
How much longer can the Patriots rely on their aging team? They have some good young players but their D is older than dirt.

twoseven
02-06-2008, 05:27 AM
The Doplhins are going to select a QB with the first overall pick? I'll believe that when I see it. I don't see them hanging onto that pick regardless with all of the players teams below them may be after, much less using it on a QB that heads a group of playcallers that are far from elite.

twoseven
02-06-2008, 05:43 AM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

The Leaper
02-06-2008, 07:59 AM
My bet is that Cromartie will be off the board by our pick if we stay put.

Yes, but I think it is likely Thompson trades up in this draft. The cost of moving up 5-10 spots at the bottom of the first round isn't that great, so if there is someone he really likes he can make the move. Cromartie could be that kind of guy.

The Leaper
02-06-2008, 08:00 AM
I don't like hyphenated last names. Keep him out of Green Bay.

KGB has worked out well...we can call him DRC.

The Leaper
02-06-2008, 08:02 AM
Besides, now that he has been linked to the Packers in several mock drafts TT will use him to trade down for more picks.

Once again...trading down from the second to last pick in the first round is almost never done because of the significant contract differences between 1st rounders and 2nd rounders.

Deputy Nutz
02-06-2008, 08:08 AM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

You take all this athletic ability stick him on the field at SLB for two years, watch him get his ass kicked because he has to continually go against the tight end, then a lead blocker and then make the play? Urlacher was tried at SLB when he was a rookie and got benched because he was too small. They moved him to middle where he was protected and he became an All Pro. You need size to play on the line of scrimmage and fill gaps. The SLB is in a position to force everything back to the backside so the MLB can make plays. If the Packers needed a weakside linebacker I think Rivers would be your man, but the Packers spent a 5th pick two years ago on Hawk, and although he was been slightly above average, the Packers still have a 5th pick in the draft invested in the WLB position. Lastly, if Rivers is or was projected to go in the last half of the round how could you compare his talent to Urlachers or think he has the skills to play ahead of Hawk? Unless the predraft scouts are missing something on him which they might be since his Senior Bowl performances, he just isn't good enough then to consider moving Hawk to the SLB, or good enough to wait for him to put on 25 pounds.

run pMc
02-06-2008, 08:40 AM
Based on what I've read about him & his play in the Senior Bowl, I'd be very happy with D.Cromartie. He'd apprentice well under Al and Woodson and push Blackmon, J.Bush, and Tramon to play better.

TT will surprise; but I don't think he'll trade up for a punter. ;)

I think the combine will have a lot to say about mock drafts, and the actual draft will look much different.

twoseven
02-06-2008, 03:03 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

You take all this athletic ability stick him on the field at SLB for two years, watch him get his ass kicked because he has to continually go against the tight end, then a lead blocker and then make the play? Urlacher was tried at SLB when he was a rookie and got benched because he was too small. They moved him to middle where he was protected and he became an All Pro. You need size to play on the line of scrimmage and fill gaps. The SLB is in a position to force everything back to the backside so the MLB can make plays. If the Packers needed a weakside linebacker I think Rivers would be your man, but the Packers spent a 5th pick two years ago on Hawk, and although he was been slightly above average, the Packers still have a 5th pick in the draft invested in the WLB position. Lastly, if Rivers is or was projected to go in the last half of the round how could you compare his talent to Urlachers or think he has the skills to play ahead of Hawk? Unless the predraft scouts are missing something on him which they might be since his Senior Bowl performances, he just isn't good enough then to consider moving Hawk to the SLB, or good enough to wait for him to put on 25 pounds.

Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition.

I simply implied that Rivers should be more than capable of getting his weight up to 235-240, eventually 250 if need be, shouldn't take more than a year, two tops. When that happens and he still has all of the other intangibles, I think you have a machine at LB.

Thank you for pointing out that Urlacher rode pine until he was ready, are you saying a guy like Rivers couldn't do this? I also wasn't under the impression that we were drafting a starter with the 30th pick, are we? Our first round pick might have to ride pine until he is ready, but when he is that time he spent maturing may pay off big. I know we'd never do something like that..Harrel..but I don't think it is the worst idea in the world.

Deputy Nutz
02-06-2008, 04:06 PM
I will put it this way, if he is available at the 30th pick, then the Packers should take him because he is probably the best overall player. He will most likely not make an impact if he is not on of the three best linebackers on the roster, which most likely would be due to size and lack of position on the Green Bay Packers starting defense.

twoseven
02-06-2008, 04:22 PM
I will put it this way, if he is available at the 30th pick, then the Packers should take him because he is probably the best overall player. He will most likely not make an impact if he is not on of the three best linebackers on the roster, which most likely would be due to size and lack of position on the Green Bay Packers starting defense.
CB, LB, DL, RB..none of what we will see at 30 is going to be good enough to make much of an impact next season outside of special teams or nickel/dime pkgs. If they do, bonus. I too don't think Rivers will be there, but if TT is thinking about trading up for a tempting talent that slides a few spots closer to 30, you never know. As much as I want impact from the first round, that #30 won't be good enough to start is expected and appreciated, we don't suck anymore.

lcbj68c
02-06-2008, 05:21 PM
Needs: CB, OT, S, TE, PT

I must be having a mind fart. For the life of me, I can't figure out what that PT position is? Wouldn't punter be just P by itself?

BallHawk
02-06-2008, 05:49 PM
I don't like hyphenated last names. Keep him out of Green Bay.

KGB has worked out well...we can call him DRC.

Something about having him named after a war-torn country in Central Africa doesn't have the same ring to it as the secret police for a Communist country. :lol:

Deputy Nutz
02-06-2008, 10:12 PM
I will put it this way, if he is available at the 30th pick, then the Packers should take him because he is probably the best overall player. He will most likely not make an impact if he is not on of the three best linebackers on the roster, which most likely would be due to size and lack of position on the Green Bay Packers starting defense.
CB, LB, DL, RB..none of what we will see at 30 is going to be good enough to make much of an impact next season outside of special teams or nickel/dime pkgs. If they do, bonus. I too don't think Rivers will be there, but if TT is thinking about trading up for a tempting talent that slides a few spots closer to 30, you never know. As much as I want impact from the first round, that #30 won't be good enough to start is expected and appreciated, we don't suck anymore.

Yep. I wouldn't mind trading the pick, I would take a 2nd and a 3rd. Probably get a 2nd, 4th, and maybe a 7th.

KYPack
02-06-2008, 10:52 PM
[Yep. I wouldn't mind trading the pick, I would take a 2nd and a 3rd. Probably get a 2nd, 4th, and maybe a 7th.

I know what ya mean Nutz, but things are changing. Thompson has done turned over the roster now.

We now need a few quality rooks instead of a whole slew of guys.

I know it's against TT's religion, but does anybody think he might try to move up to get a couple quality players?

Joemailman
02-06-2008, 11:05 PM
I'd like to see him go after Faneca, and then get a good CB in the draft, which he can probably get by staying where he is in the 1st round.

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 07:22 AM
I'm curious about a guy like Joe Flacco maybe in the 2nd round. He's got the size/arm to warrant higher consideration, but his small school spread experience seems to be keeping him out of first round consideration.

Everything I read, the guy needs to adjust to taking drops and work on his fundementals a little. He'd be perfect for MM's quarterback school. I'm not saying to "give up" on Rodgers but at the same time, I'd love it if we had two good options to sift through after Favre retires rather than one.

We'll see how it goes. It all depends on who TT has rated where and as we've found out over the last couple years, it's rarely conventional. He'll take the best guy. Who is that? Nobody knows.

Bretsky
02-07-2008, 07:43 AM
[Yep. I wouldn't mind trading the pick, I would take a 2nd and a 3rd. Probably get a 2nd, 4th, and maybe a 7th.

I know what ya mean Nutz, but things are changing. Thompson has done turned over the roster now.

We now need a few quality rooks instead of a whole slew of guys.

I know it's against TT's religion, but does anybody think he might try to move up to get a couple quality players?

no :lol:

MJZiggy
02-07-2008, 07:45 AM
You guys can be so stubborn. He told you exactly what he was going to do.

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 07:52 AM
There are plenty of players that we'd be well served to replace with good up and comers. . . . .


Colin Cole / Corey Williams at DT

Montgomery and KGB at DE

I'd be OK with a young TE to replace Bubba

Poppinga, Bishop and White at LB

Frank Walker, Peprah, Collins, Blackmon if he can't stay healthy and Bush in the secondary could be upgraded pretty easily.

We don't have anybody as the #3 QB

Anywhere on the OL could be addressed and it would help

I wouldn't complain if we had another really good RB

Ruvell Martin, Koren Robinson or Carlyl Holiday don't seem untouchable to me.

I'm sort of OK with the FB situation

I'm OK with the K and P

I'm OK with Davis for another year if he shows up in good shape and ready to rumble.


Mostly though, we could use guys at every position. Nothing wrong with adding competition for camp. May the cream rise to the top and would you really want it any other way considering "moving up to get what you want" has no more likelyhood of succeeding than staying where you're at and stayign true to your board. Only difference is you have less chances to hit.

Deputy Nutz
02-07-2008, 07:54 AM
I'm curious about a guy like Joe Flacco maybe in the 2nd round. He's got the size/arm to warrant higher consideration, but his small school spread experience seems to be keeping him out of first round consideration.

Everything I read, the guy needs to adjust to taking drops and work on his fundementals a little. He'd be perfect for MM's quarterback school. I'm not saying to "give up" on Rodgers but at the same time, I'd love it if we had two good options to sift through after Favre retires rather than one.

We'll see how it goes. It all depends on who TT has rated where and as we've found out over the last couple years, it's rarely conventional. He'll take the best guy. Who is that? Nobody knows.

From everything I heard from the Senior Bowl, the guy struggled. The guy looks big but really sort of slow looking, methodical release, slow drops.

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 07:57 AM
As far as what Thompson does, I think he'll either stay put or move back. He could move up, but teams tend to overrated the guys high on their board so usually it's easier to find a dance partner moving back, not moving up. Thompson will do whatever's best as far as aquiring the best talent is concerned, it just so happens he's working in an enviorment that it favors moving back. It's not that he tries to move back, it just sort of happens. I would guess it's likely to happen again. Thaler and Massey had that thesis on the draft. It talked about GM's overrating their opinions and causing mistakes. What impresses me most about Thompson is that he recognizes that and works in his world of what he sees as right and not the erred consensus.

Thompson has said over and over that he's true to his board. He's talked about the dangers of desperation and that he plans to avoid taking risk out of desperation.

He'll do what he does. Next year if the roster is deeper and stronger than it is this year, I could see him being less likely to trade back and more likely to trade up but right now we have so many holes accross the board that I see no reason not to add 10 more rookies to the mix. And even if the roster was a little stronger, I think you're better off playing the odds. It's always good to raise competition, even when it's already high (and I don't think it's so high right now).

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 07:59 AM
From everything I heard from the Senior Bowl, the guy struggled. The guy looks big but really sort of slow looking, methodical release, slow drops.

I heard he started slow but ESPN Insider has him as one of their top 5 offensive players. I'll dig up the artical.

As far as his drops go, he's never done them so it will probably take a year working on his fundementals just to get natural with them. I think we'd be a good place for him. He'd be able to work with a good QB coach who focuses on fundementals and he wouldn't be rushed on the field.

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 08:05 AM
ESPN Insiders top 5 offense and defense at the Senior Bowl by Todd McShay



Last week, I previewed the 2008 Senior Bowl by breaking down the top five offensive and defensive prospects expected to participate. Well, that turned out to be a colossal waste of time.

First, there were the bail outs. Some like QB Matt Ryan and CB Mike Jenkins skipped Mobile on their own accord while others like QB Brian Brohm and DE/OLB Quentin Groves pulled out due to lingering injuries.

Then the rankings were also affected by players who fell victim to injury like WRs Limas Sweed and Early Doucet, TE Fred Davis, DT Kentwan Balmer and CB Leodis McKelvin. Other players -- like QB Andre Woodson -- failed to live up to expectations.

So, suddenly, a week later, the lists of the top-ranked prospects in the Senior Bowl look almost nothing like the originals.





Top five offensive players
1. Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
Biggest pro: Agility.
Biggest con: Explosive power.
Draft projection: First round.


2. Sam Baker, OT, Southern California
Biggest pro: Agility.
Biggest con: Bulk/strength.
Draft projection: First round.


3. Lavelle Hawkins, WR, California
Biggest pro: Precision route-runner.
Biggest con: Bulk/strength.
Draft projection: Late-first or early-second round.


4. Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
Biggest pro: Efficiency as a pocket passer.
Biggest con: Inability to make plays outside the pocket.
Draft projection: Second round.


5. Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
Biggest pro: Prototypical size/arm.
Biggest con: Adjustment from small-school, shotgun-heavy offense.
Draft projection: Second round.



Top five defensive players

1. Sedrick Ellis, DT, Southern California
Biggest pro: Explosive quickness.
Biggest con: Durability.
Draft projection: Top-10 pick.


2. Keith Rivers, OLB, Southern California
Biggest pro: Motor and leadership.
Biggest con: Not a playmaker in passing game.
Draft projection: Mid-to-late first round.


3. Dan Connor, ILB, Penn State
Biggest pro: Toughness, instincts and tackling.
Biggest con: Lack of ideal speed.
Draft projection: Mid-to-late first round.


4. Ali Highsmith, OLB, LSU
Biggest pro: Range versus run and in coverage.
Biggest con: Undersized.
Draft projection: Late-first round.


5. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State
Biggest pro: Size/athleticism.
Biggest con: Run support.
Draft projection: Late-first round.

MJZiggy
02-07-2008, 08:06 AM
Who cares about top 5 when we're picking in the bottom 3?

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 08:07 AM
It's top 5 at the senior bowl. Maybe only 10 of those guys will go in the first round. Maybe 15 but a good number of JR's and SR's who held out will go ahead of these guys.

Deputy Nutz
02-07-2008, 08:07 AM
As far as what Thompson does, I think he'll either stay put or move back. He could move up, but teams tend to overrated the guys high on their board so usually it's easier to find a dance partner moving back, not moving up. Thompson will do whatever's best as far as aquiring the best talent is concerned, it just so happens he's working in an enviorment that it favors moving back. It's not that he tries to move back, it just sort of happens. I would guess it's likely to happen again. Thaler and Massey had that thesis on the draft. It talked about GM's overrating their opinions and causing mistakes. What impresses me most about Thompson is that he recognizes that and works in his world of what he sees as right and not the erred consensus.

Thompson has said over and over that he's true to his board. He's talked about the dangers of desperation and that he plans to avoid taking risk out of desperation.

He'll do what he does. Next year if the roster is deeper and stronger than it is this year, I could see him being less likely to trade back and more likely to trade up but right now we have so many holes accross the board that I see no reason not to add 10 more rookies to the mix. And even if the roster was a little stronger, I think you're better off playing the odds. It's always good to raise competition, even when it's already high (and I don't think it's so high right now).

So many holes? I wasn't happy how the season ended but it certainly wasn't because the roster had glaring weaknesses anywhere. The team is old in certain places and like any NFL roster there is a lack of depth at certain positions, but to say this team has many holes is a bit of a stretch. I recognize your list from above, and it would be nice to address all those areas, but that is a lot wants, and actually not too many needs.

Still Thompson isn't going to change his draft stratedgy too much, he is going to get as many picks as he can stick in his pocket and make a run at getting the best players, regardless of position to make this roster better as a whole.

RashanGary
02-07-2008, 08:12 AM
So many holes? I wasn't happy how the season ended but it certainly wasn't because the roster had glaring weaknesses anywhere. The team is old in certain places and like any NFL roster there is a lack of depth at certain positions, but to say this team has many holes is a bit of a stretch. I recognize your list from above, and it would be nice to address all those areas, but that is a lot wants, and actually not too many needs.
.

I hear ya. I guess what i was trying to say is that we can improve across the board at every position. It's not like we can't use a good LB, DE, DT, OL, RB, WR or QB. Do we need immediate starters? Not really. Is our roster better than a lot of teams? Probably, but you can't set your standards at just better than most. I think you want to be the best you can be and I believe playing the odds in a game of unsurity is the way to become the best.

BallHawk
02-07-2008, 11:12 AM
Considering how late we are picking the 1st, I'd much rather trade down and pick up maybe an early 2nd and a mid-late 3rd. TT has proven he cant strike gold with later picks and the way this draft looks there isn't going to be a dramtic drop in talent after the 1st round.

Trade down, pick up picks and let TT do the rest.

Tarlam!
02-07-2008, 11:56 AM
TT likes first rounders, I think. I think there's nothing like having a #1 Uniform in your hands....Wait... that's only for guys that are at the draft. I guess our guy will be at home waiting for the cell phone call...

OK, I'm convinced. Let's trade down, or up!

BTW, how come we pick at 30? The boys had a better record than us, didn't they??

Zool
02-07-2008, 11:57 AM
TT likes first rounders, I think. I think there's nothing like having a #1 Uniform in your hands....Wait... that's only for guys that are at the draft. I guess our guy will be at home waiting for the cell phone call...

OK, I'm convinced. Let's trade down, or up!

BTW, how come we pick at 30? The boys had a better record than us, didn't they??

They did, but they lost in the divisional round.

Tarlam!
02-07-2008, 12:00 PM
My understanding was that only the SB teams were taken out of there original slots...

Zool
02-07-2008, 12:07 PM
All playoff teams.

Tarlam!
02-07-2008, 12:08 PM
Learn something new every day...

woodbuck27
02-07-2008, 01:01 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

Good post.

Things you can't coach ( easily) are a motor or foot speed, and attitude towords the proper application of aggression.

It's hard to teach a loser (the fella that just gives enough for another payday) to be a winner in a team concept. That falls under the heading PROPER Systems and Schemes and Directed Goal Orientation.

Weed and Feed based in objective analysis and no room for false pride. That's why it must be all about the fan.

It's impossible to coach God's rare gifts or size in terms of hands, arm length and height.

Deputy Nutz
02-07-2008, 03:14 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

Good post.

Things you can't coach ( easily) are a motor or foot speed, and attitude towords the proper application of aggression.

It's hard to teach a loser (the fella that just gives enough for another payday) to be a winner in a team concept. That falls under the heading PROPER Systems and Schemes and Directed Goal Orientation.

Weed and Feed based in objective analysis and no room for false pride. That's why it must be all about the fan.

It's impossible to coach God's rare gifts or size in terms of hands, arm length and height.

One of the most insane ramblings I have heard in a while.

swede
02-07-2008, 03:40 PM
I would prefer to see them get Keith Rivers if he's available, but I not going to complain about Rodgers-Cromartie either.

Where would you play another 225 pound linebacker? He is too small to play the strongside in this scheme. You almost have to be a defensive end. Poppinga is about 250.
His scouting notes concerning size, strength, playing style all make him sound just like Ernie Sims who was also 225lbs when he came out. You can increase a player's weight and size with appropriate training. Can you teach the already heavy enough player the necessary instincts to be a tackling monster that plays with an attitude, delivers sledgehammer type hits, and has a non-stop motor like Sims and Rivers seem to be? Not so easy to put all of the onus just on size, I think. Rivers is the same height as Hawk, Rivers has the room to gain weight without sacrificing much speed. Not saying he's perfect for us, just that you don't have to pidgeon hole a LB because of his college playing weight, they all beef up if they have to when they transition. A 6' 5" Urlacher started at 220 out of college as a safety, gradually put on 40 lbs in first few years. Draft talent, attitude, and instincts ahead of weight--in my opinion the scale is the easiest trait to influence.

Good post.

Things you can't coach ( easily) are a motor or foot speed, and attitude towords the proper application of aggression.

It's hard to teach a loser (the fella that just gives enough for another payday) to be a winner in a team concept. That falls under the heading PROPER Systems and Schemes and Directed Goal Orientation.

Weed and Feed based in objective analysis and no room for false pride. That's why it must be all about the fan.

It's impossible to coach God's rare gifts or size in terms of hands, arm length and height.

One of the most insane ramblings I have heard in a while.

I agree. Might be time to tweak the meds.