No decision on Williams... Wahle back in GB?

[packers11]

No decision on Williams, Thompson says

By Pete Dougherty
pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com February 12, 2008

The odds look long on the Green Bay Packers re-signing defensive tackle Corey Williams, though they haven't given up on it.


The Packers have been in contact with Williams' agent, and the sides have discussed contract parameters. But considering the possibility Williams could be the most coveted defensive tackle available in a thin free-agent crop this offseason, he could be in for a payday on the open market that General Manager Ted Thompson would consider too steep because of the Packers' depth at that position.


Thompson could use the Packers' franchise tag on Williams by the Feb. 21 deadline, and said Monday he has not ruled out that possibility, though the $6.263 million tender would be high for a rotational player at a deep position. If the Packers don't sign or tag him, Williams becomes an unrestricted free agent Feb. 29.


"I'd say ongoing," Thompson said of the Packers' talks with Mitch Frankel, who is Williams' agent. "It's safe to say there were some differences of opinion of where it was headed. We have guys here, (pro personnel director) Reggie McKenzie and (personnel analyst for the general manager) John Schneider, that have touched base with all those (pending free agents) and certainly have talked to Corey's people and let them know we still like him and still would like to have him on the team."


Williams is the Packers' lone unrestricted free agent of note — he started nine games, and his seven sacks was third on the team and tops among the club's defensive tackles. The Packers will be about $25 million under the cap when the new league year begins, so they have the money to pay Williams a sizeable contract, but defensive tackle is their deepest position, and Thompson has helped build a healthy cap by being careful about the salary structure of the roster.


Though Williams probably was their best pass rusher at defensive tackle, the Packers have an up-and-coming defensive tackle of even more promise in third-year pro Johnny Jolly, who arguably was playing better than Williams before his season ended with a shoulder injury in the 10th game. Jolly had surgery and faces a relatively long comeback, though the Packers expect him ready for the start of training camp at the latest.


The Packers also return starter Ryan Pickett, their best run stopper, and Justin Harrell, their first-round draft pick last year. They'll be looking for Harrell to make a major jump from his nondescript rookie season after spending this offseason in their workout program.


"We're big believers in improving from within," Thompson said, "and we'd expect all of our players, including Justin, to improve. We felt like we made great strides last offseason, and I think that's the reason we were successful this season as a team is our individual players worked very hard and got better. Each of them improved in areas they needed to improve. So yeah, we'd hope for improvement from everyone, including Justin."


Tennessee's Albert Haynesworth will be the best defensive tackle available in free agency if he hits the open market, but chances are he won't. If the Titans don't re-sign him soon, they're expected to use their franchise tag on him, which will make him all but unavailable because it will cost another team two first-round draft picks as compensation to sign him. Williams at 27 might be the next-best defensive tackle on some or many teams' boards, so he could be looking at guaranteed money as high as $10 million on the open market from a team desperate for a starting-caliber defensive tackle.


By comparison, Pickett in 2006 signed a four-year deal with the Packers that included $6.5 million in first-year pay and averages about $4 million a season.


Along with how hard to pursue Williams, Thompson has several other decisions to make this month. Among those are to map out a plan for free agency; whether to bring back highly paid veterans Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila and Bubba Franks; and what tenders to offer to his restricted free agents.


Thompson was unusually inactive in free agency last year, when the only unrestricted free agent he signed was backup cornerback Frank Walker, who signed a one-year deal won't be back. With the $25 million in cap room and a team that advanced to the NFC championship game, Thompson probably will be more active in free agency in an attempt to get the team over the hump and into the Super Bowl.


Judging by his first three offseasons running the Packers, Thompson is less likely to pursue the most-coveted free agents, who generally sign inflated deals in the first few days of free agency, and more likely to go after players still on the market after a week or 10 days. The Packers could use an upgrade at any number of positions — a tight end, a starting guard, a linebacker, an outside pass rusher, a cornerback — and Thompson and his scouting staff will have to decide whether the draft or free agency offers better opportunities at each spot.

Thompson also will have to decide whether to pursue a pay cut from Gbaja-Biamila as a pass-rush specialist. Gbaja-Biamila, 30, will make a base salary of $6.15 million in '08. He plays a crucial pass-rush role, but that might be on the high side for a part-time player who had a solid but not great season (9½ sacks). The best pass rushers who could be free agents probably won't make the open market — Kansas City President Carl Peterson has said he'll use the franchise tag on defensive end Jared Allen, and the Baltimore Ravens are expected to do the same with defensive end-outside linebacker Terrell Suggs.


Franks' base salary for '08 is $3 million and he's due a $500,000 roster bonus in March, but he's had a chronic knee injury the past couple of years that sidelined him for eight games last season. If the 30-year-old Franks doesn't accept a substantial pay cut, the Packers will have to consider cutting ties with him.

The Packers' two restricted free agents are defensive tackle Colin Cole and halfback Vernand Morency. Cole helped make defensive tackle the team's deepest position last year before a broken forearm ended his season in the fourth game. He's a good candidate for the $927,000 minimum tender — the Packers then will retain the right to match any deal he signs with another team but won't get compensation if they don't match because he entered the league as an undrafted rookie. If they think another team would sign him, they could offer the second-round tender of $1.417 million, and have the right to match or get a second-round pick as compensation.


The decision with Morency is whether to tender him at all because of patellar-tendon injury that limited him all last season and could be a chronic problem. The minimum tender in effect will guarantee his return to the Packers, because he entered the league as a third-round pick, and it's a certainty no NFL team would give up that high a draft pick to sign him.


Thompson also might consider signing former Packers guard Mike Wahle to compete for a starting job. Carolina cut the 30-year-old Wahle on Monday.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Thompson also might consider signing former Packers guard Mike Wahle to compete for a starting job. Carolina cut the 30-year-old Wahle on Monday.

rather thin report there. he might do a lot of things. might take a vacation to belgium. might marry a girl.

[Brando19]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

[Farley Face]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.

[4and12to12and4]

My 2 cents? Let Bubba go. Not even close in worth to salary. A joke. He was made by Favre, never had 'ecxeptional' talent. Favre's rocket arm in the red zone MADE him. Pick up Wahle (has A LOT left in the tank, isn't even close to losing it, and would be able to sink right in with his buddies on the end of the line), and get Jared Allen. This player is the PERFECT fit. He would compliment Aaron and he would probably come here if courted with roses. He would look at GB as a team who was a win away from the Trophy and he would know that he could have a MONSTER year opposite a probowler. If we offer him more than the next guy, my bet is he comes to TitleTown. With those two upgrades, ANYTHING is possible. We would have a great secondary, VERY goood backer core, and one of the best if not the best d-lines in the league. Imagine that with Favre tossing it to athletic receivers that are either probowlers, second or third year men, not to mention an improved line with Mr. Grant hitting the holes? Those TWO acquisitions would, IMHO, catipult us to one of the greatest team assembled, assuming Lord Favre returns. God, I hope TT sees it my way!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jared Allen likely won't be available.

[Bretsky]

IMO Allen will get tagged

IMO Wahle would be a good addition; open up the competition at OG for the other spot cuz Wahle would start. He still plays at a level our OG's are not at and I don't think he'd come as expensive as some others.

[Merlin]

Hear we go again bashing a player that had a solid year when he wasn't injured. Franks played very well for us this season and if it wasn't for his injury on a blown call by the officials, he would have made a difference. Is he worth what he is getting paid? Maybe maybe not. But to call him a "joke" is as naive as it gets.

I really hate the off season.

[Deputy Nutz]

Hear we go again bashing a player that had a solid year when he wasn't injured. Franks played very well for us this season and if it wasn't for his injury on a blown call by the officials, he would have made a difference. Is he worth what he is getting paid? Maybe maybe not. But to call him a "joke" is as naive as it gets.

I really hate the off season.

I agree, who else are you going to get that is as good if not better than Bubba? Franks is one of the top blockers at the tight end position in the league.

[Pacopete4]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

[packers11]

Bubba is very solid at blocking... Hes probably better than our guards... :wink:

But in all seriousness, i hope the packers keep him... Hes a good veteran leader and a really solid blocker...

[ND72]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.

If I remember right, while he wasn't heartbroken over leaving, he also did have his ego/pride hurt though as he thought he would be a Packer forever.

[KYPack]

Jared Allen will be back in KC.

If they can't sign him long term, he'll be tagged.

Mike Wahle will sign a multi-year deal with a nice signing bonus. It would be long odds that the Pack will join in the bidding for him that will take place.

Bubba had an awful '06, but came back with a productive year in '07. Lee has passed him on the depth chart and in the bank account. Franks will be scrutinized in camp, but unless someone beats him out, he'll be a Packer in '08.

[Deputy Nutz]

Wahle and his wife wanted to be in a bigger community than Green Bay. They didn't like the constant attention, they were also used to living in bigger cities. Wahle might have been one of the first Packers to back his U-haul out the drive way.

[Carolina_Packer]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.

If I remember right, while he wasn't heartbroken over leaving, he also did have his ego/pride hurt though as he thought he would be a Packer forever.

Wouldn't you guess he understands the business a little? If you think about it, Carolina had to do the same thing (don't know if exact same circumstances) as the Packers in 2005. Now, the Packers are cap healthy, so why not the Packers? I bet he would take Packer money again, unless for some reason unknown to us, he had a bad time in Green Bay. It all depends on the bidding for him, if he gets any interest from TT, and likes what he hears. I'd like him back. He addresses a big need.

Allen probably will be tagged. Bubba will be a tough call. I agree on his "hidden" contributions. They'll have to decide if he's worth the money; I think he is. Williams will find a richer deal. KGB will be the toughest one. Perhaps he will restructure to stay.

[Farley Face]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.

JSO's take:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=717534

Maybe more plausible than I thought, but more likely posturing by a guy looking for leverage and a job for the most $$ possible. He would definitely be an upgrade for us, but he will get more coin than I see TT putting on the table. At only 30 years of age and still capable, someone will throw more dollars on the table than we would likely pay.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

[twoseven]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

[cpk1994]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.Exactly. WHen people say that KGB and Bubba need to restructure to stay either igonre or forget the fact that the PAck is $25 Million under the cap. The $6 million with that cap room is chump change. These guys won't restructure when they see $25 million in cap space sitting there.

[RashanGary]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

I'm not saying the KGB or Franks situation is cut and dry, but there is more to it than one years effect.

The Packers have a shot every year to win the SB (just like any team). A mistake today doesn't only effect today (even though the effect today may be small). It effects 3, 4, 5 years down the road as well. We may not be pressed against the cap today, but maybe we are two years down the road and that 9-10 million spent on these two older, soon to be over the hill players today could be the extention of a really good player (let's say Greg Jennings or Jason Spitz).

There is more to it than just how it effects today. It's how it effects the whole picture of getting to and winning a superbowl. With chances to do that happening every year, you have to consider the total impact of letting a player go or keeping him, not just what it does today.

[Patler]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.Exactly. WHen people say that KGB and Bubba need to restructure to stay either igonre or forget the fact that the PAck is $25 Million under the cap. The $6 million with that cap room is chump change. These guys won't restructure when they see $25 million in cap space sitting there.

A player might restructure if the alternative is to be released, and he believes his market value could be less than offered by the Packers in a restructured deal. For example, if the Packers offer a restructured deal to KGB worth 4 million, and he feels he could only get a $2.5-3 million dollar deal on the FA market, he might be willing to sign.

That is the game played by Sharper and the Packers. Sharper correctly determined that he could get a very good deal on the FA market.

Some teams and GMs believe it is important to maintain a logical pay structure on the team, not having players with lessened value paid lofty salaries for season after season. They seem to tolerate it for a season or two, but not forever, even if they have the cap space to do so.

KGB and Franks will be two very interesting situations to follow in the off-season. I really have no feeling about what the Packers might do. I can easily believe they will do nothing, I can just as easily believe they will ask both to restructure.

[RashanGary]

Look at what Sherman did. He rarely trimmed fat because while it was costly, there was nobody better at the moment. He didn't like to extend guys early seemingly because he already had them. Why do somethign that would be good for tomorrow when he could buy a UFA today.

He never really seemed to have a grasp of just doing the right thing for the whole term of the contract. He always seemed to have blinders on. Eventually that, (what does it do for today, forget the rest of years ahead) mentality sort of lead to the Packers destruction.

I think you have to think past your nose in this league. Look at what Parcells did in Miami. He cut a lot of aging dead weight. Maybe they are better than the young guys, but it's barely and the price and energy wasted on decent but never be better guys starts to take its toll.

[RashanGary]

And I'm not saying they should cut them either, but the logic, we have money today is no better than if you had a few thousand dollars in your pocket so blow it today, it will make your day better. You have many days, why not blow it on somethign worthwhile tomorrow over just spending it because you have it today?

[Iron Mike]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

I liked Jackie Harris. 8-)

[Zool]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

If you could guarantee that Bubba would play more than 8 games then I'm all for it. Seems like he's starting to break down though.

[twoseven]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

I'm not saying the KGB or Franks situation is cut and dry, but there is more to it than one years effect.

The Packers have a shot every year to win the SB (just like any team). A mistake today doesn't only effect today (even though the effect today may be small). It effects 3, 4, 5 years down the road as well. We may not be pressed against the cap today, but maybe we are two years down the road and that 9-10 million spent on these two older, soon to be over the hill players today could be the extention of a really good player (let's say Greg Jennings or Jason Spitz).

There is more to it than just how it effects today. It's how it effects the whole picture of getting to and winning a superbowl. With chances to do that happening every year, you have to consider the total impact of letting a player go or keeping him, not just what it does today.
Yep, very well aware that it' not just about today, but to play the sky is falling game with regards to our cap in the next 2-3 years when it is clearly not looking like that is in the same category of tunnel vision as my supposed play for today (?) attitude.

That 9-10 mil you mention in reference to KGB and Bub is already counting against the cap andthere's still 25 mil there, cut KGB and Bubba and we're 35 mil under? Clifton expires in two years, that's another 6 mil. Brett's 11 million could go anyday, and to rationally expect his 11 to be counting against our 2010 roster is I think, safe to say, very improbable.

Al Harris, Woodson, DD all could be gone in 2-4 years. Tauscher and Nick Barnett will not be long behind them, and so on. How many more million is that? So, who are all of the young guys that are going to explode and be getting these massive raises in the next five years that will still be able to trump the dollars cleared when all of the names mentioned in the previous paragraphs are gone?

I am already aware of the save for tomorrow theory, you should open your eyes to the fact that we will also be aging and getting rid of high priced talent at the same time the young guys are due for more money.

Things seem pretty evenly blanced between cheap and expensive, young and old, it appears to be flowing nicely. Masterful job, TT! Which brings me back to my original point..it seems very silly if you are not going to be doing much with a 25 mil cap to be cutting two serviceable vets, only to add another 10 mil to that oversized cap that isn't getting spent, and then not be getting the same production from their (Bub and KGB's) replacements.

[Merlin]

Bubba had a good season. KGB had an excellent season for a part time DE. Are they overpaid? Who the hells knows. Building for the future is all fine and good if as long as you keep perspective on the present. Barnett isn't that old and just signed a new contract so I don't see how he will be following a player like Tauscher out the door considering Tauscher has 5-6 season on Barnett at a very physical position. We need veteran depth on this team. We need people that although aren't starting caliber, an step in when someone goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat. We are weak at CB, LB, OL, RB and yes, QB right now. We have no depth at these positions. Rodgers may end up being a very good QB but let's face it, he hasn't had any competition for the role since he got here. Competition brings out things in players that you never knew they had. It's a good thing. Last year Rayner got beat out because he didn't rise to the occasion. What if McCarthy told Rodgers "guess what, you aren't the backup QB anymore until you beat out X,Y, & Z." Would Rodgers rise to the occasion? Who knows, but it's better to find that out NOW then before you name him your starter.

[twoseven]

Look at what Sherman did. He rarely trimmed fat because while it was costly, there was nobody better at the moment. He didn't like to extend guys early seemingly because he already had them. Why do somethign that would be good for tomorrow when he could buy a UFA today.

He never really seemed to have a grasp of just doing the right thing for the whole term of the contract. He always seemed to have blinders on. Eventually that, (what does it do for today, forget the rest of years ahead) mentality sort of lead to the Packers destruction.

I think you have to think past your nose in this league. Look at what Parcells did in Miami. He cut a lot of aging dead weight. Maybe they are better than the young guys, but it's barely and the price and energy wasted on decent but never be better guys starts to take its toll.
Sherman was a financial moron that never ever should have control of the purse strings. That you continue to channel his poor examples whenever spending FA money is mentioned is beyond me.

I'd be curious to know how far under the cap any SB winner has been since the inception of FA. Patler, you game?

(after Rhodes) Shermy followed Holmgren's back to back SBs, no pressure to win the SB on his shoulders, naww. With a decent core of guys on his roster, how ready were GB fans to accept him breaking his team down ala TT when they were ripe to go deep into the playoffs. Sorry, but any coach that plays for tomorrow and pisses away a chance to get to the SB when it is in reach can be scrutinized just as heavily as the one that gambles and falls short. It's real easy to wag the finger at those moves after they failed.

As for Parcells, it's a real brave and supra-genius act to cut a bunch of medium level, overpriced talent when you are: coming off of 1-15, you traded your best WR to SD last year, your RB Brown is coming off ACL surgery and his backup is Rickey Williams, there's no franchise player out there to use that #1 pick on, and you have no quarterback of note to speak of for the upcoming season. :roll: Think past your nose? That was about the easiest decision any GM could make in the history of the league.

[twoseven]

Barnett isn't that old and just signed a new contract so I don't see how he will be following a player like Tauscher out the door considering Tauscher has 5-6 season on Barnett at a very physical position.
Tauscher was drafted 3 years before NB, not 5-6. How long do linemen last in the NFL on avg, how long do MLBs last in the NFL on avg? This considered, I think it's fair to say that NB will not be far behind Tauscher in moving on, 1-2 years maybe? I didn't mean literally follow him out of the league, and I didn't say NB wouldn't go elsewhere before he's retired.

IMO we can probably say goodbye to Harris, Woodson, and DD at the latest 3-5 years from now, I could see Tausch in 4-6, NB in 5-7. My point is there will be turnover to balance the youngers getting paid.

[MJZiggy]

1. Agreed we need depth, why does it have to be veteran? The boys pretty much proved that the kids TT brings up can play.

2. How can you say Aaron Rodgers has had no competition? He's failed to beat out Brett Favre every year since he got here. And don't think he hasn't tried either.

[4and12to12and4]

Bubba is very solid at blocking... Hes probably better than our guards... :wink:

But in all seriousness, i hope the packers keep him... Hes a good veteran leader and a really solid blocker...

I completely agree that Bubba is an excellent blocker, and the fact that he blocks better than our guards is the reason I think we should pick up Wahle. TT will most definitely choose another OL in the draft now that he sees how average the ones he has are. With Wahle back, we won't need to count on a great blocking TE as much, thus, Lee can be utilized as a pass catcher on more downs, he is a MUCH better threat in that capacity than Bubba. I used the word "joke" hastily, and don't really feel that, however, he is definitely not worth keeping at his salary IF we can assemble a line that can block CONSISTENTLY. Big IF, and with no upgrades in that area, we have to keep Bubba as a default.

[Green Bud Packer]

1. Agreed we need depth, why does it have to be veteran? The boys pretty much proved that the kids TT brings up can play.

2. How can you say Aaron Rodgers has had no competition? He's failed to beat out Brett Favre every year since he got here. And don't think he hasn't tried either.

More like Brett has had no competition. They should bring in a young guy this off-season and let him compete for the #3.If favre sticks around.

How can #4 comeback if he's never left?

[LL2]

2. How can you say Aaron Rodgers has had no competition? He's failed to beat out Brett Favre every year since he got here. And don't think he hasn't tried either.


ARod really hasn't been competition to Favre. Favre is a lock as long as he's on the team. It's not like M3 is going to dump Favre for ARod like when Dallas dumped Bledsoe for Romo.

I think it would be great to bring Wahle in. He's a very good guard. Why not have him playing while the younger guys still develop. It will not happen though.

[4and12to12and4]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.
If I remember right, while he wasn't heartbroken over leaving, he also did have his ego/pride hurt though as he thought he would be a Packer forever.

Wouldn't you guess he understands the business a little? If you think about it, Carolina had to do the same thing (don't know if exact same circumstances) as the Packers in 2005. Now, the Packers are cap healthy, so why not the Packers? I bet he would take Packer money again, unless for some reason unknown to us, he had a bad time in Green Bay. It all depends on the bidding for him, if he gets any interest from TT, and likes what he hears. I'd like him back. He addresses a big need.

Allen probably will be tagged. Bubba will be a tough call. I agree on his "hidden" contributions. They'll have to decide if he's worth the money; I think he is. Williams will find a richer deal. KGB will be the toughest one. Perhaps he will restructure to stay.

You must've missed the divisional playoff game. To remind you, we kicked the shit out of Seattle, one of the most dominant playoff performances in Lambeau history. I'm sure Wahle would rather play with Brett's ex-back-up.

[Patler]

1. Agreed we need depth, why does it have to be veteran? The boys pretty much proved that the kids TT brings up can play.

2. How can you say Aaron Rodgers has had no competition? He's failed to beat out Brett Favre every year since he got here. And don't think he hasn't tried either.

And the stirring competition between Rodgers and Craig Nall. Who can forget that?? :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:

[RashanGary]

twoseven, it's really not that complicated. The Packers are going through a dearth of "in their prime" talent because of the thin Sherman drafts. They have extra money.

They've had better drafts over the last couple years. They'v also gotten younger with Bigby, Grant, Tramon, Muir and others. They're on the upswing, but the cost ot keep the guys who are still getting paid pennies is going to go up.

Do we have 7 or 8 guys from the Wolf/Sherman era that are exiting? Sure, but it's not nearly as many as the 40 that are young and coming up.

The goal isn't to spend it all inefficiently and fall short of those who are spending it all efficiently. The mistake you're making is seeing teh Pats who have it spent on great players and wanting the Packers to spend it on average players.

The goal is to spend it all efficiently and to do that, a GM has to limit mistakes while taking advantage of oppertunity. Over a long enough period of time, that will lead to a roster that is streching the cap, but doing it without overpaying, doing it by just having the most talent in the league. That's what I hope for. I hope to be at the top and win. I always thought that was the goal.

[RashanGary]

And for the record, I don't think we should necessarily cut KGB and/or Franks. If you had to ask my opinion, I'd try to keep KGB for one more year (maybe con him into a restructure and keep him for two more) while doing my best to replace Franks this year.

I'm sure my ability to judge what is going on pales in comparision to the Packers front office, so whatever they do I'll assume it to be a good move until proven other wise.

The reason I even jumped in here is because that whole "spend it inefficiently because it's better than not spending it" attitude is pretty wide spread and it really ignores the many other ways money can be used when real oppertunity arises.

[Zool]

twoseven, it's really not that complicated. The Packers are going through a darth of "in their prime" talent because of the thin Sherman drafts.

Maul sucks as a LB, but he looks cool. Sideous is a great kicker though. What even needs to be said about Vader? The guy is a beast.

[RashanGary]

twoseven, it's really not that complicated. The Packers are going through a darth of "in their prime" talent because of the thin Sherman drafts.

Maul sucks as a LB, but he looks cool. Sideous is a great kicker though. What even needs to be said about Vader? The guy is a beast.

:) dearth, a hole :)

[twoseven]

Do we have 7 or 8 guys from the Wolf/Sherman era that are exiting? Sure, but it's not nearly as many as the 40 that are young and coming up.

The goal isn't to spend it all inefficiently and fall short of those who are spending it all efficiently. The mistake you're making is seeing teh Pats who have it spent on great players and wanting the Packers to spend it on average players.

40 players, huh? Go through the rosters from one team to the next, the bulk will be distributed through, what, 8-12 guys roughly (?), not 40. 20-25 players that are not much more than special teams players are hardly in a position to earn mad dollars.

So, our 25 mil in space and the many many millions that will be added over the next 2-8 years with the spread out exodus of Clifton, Favre, Harris, Franks, KGB, Driver, Woodson, Tauscher, Barnett, Kampman, etc..is NOT going to be enough to balance out what is coming up the pike years from now ala Rodgers, Hawk, Jennings, Bigby, Grant, Rouse, Poppinga, Jones, Crosby, and a few TBAs?

'The mistake you're making is seeing teh Pats who have it spent on great players and wanting the Packers to spend it on average players.'

Not only is this statement about what I may be thinking ridiculous (as compared to what I actually think), it makes absolutey no sense at all. I see the Pats, what they've done, now I want GB to spend a lot of money on average players? WTF are you talking about?

[twoseven]

The reason I even jumped in here is because that whole "spend it inefficiently because it's better than not spending it" attitude is pretty wide spread and it really ignores the many other ways money can be used when real oppertunity arises.
I think you see the words 'money', 'cap', 'spend' and you subsequently jump to way too many conclusions about what is actually being discussed, maybe you're dragging too many arguments from other strings around?

How much sense does it make to cut KGB and Bub RIGHT NOW, versus in the next 1-2 years, when (1) you'd (right now) have 35 mil in space that doesn't look to be used this year, and (2) the guys you stick in their spot most likely will not equal their production?

This is the point you jumped on. Care to comment on what was actually typed?

[RashanGary]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.


There ya go. Since you were such an expert on what was said and not said, I didn't think I had to requote the same post for the 20th time.




Well, before you go shouting like an angry little kid, why don't you write what you mean next time.

This time you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline and you only related it to the money we had as if to imply having money means spending to say it's spent.

[RashanGary]

Again, I'm not even advocating replacing KGB or Franks right now. I'm just saying the point to replace them comes before the point in which you find someone better, certainly it comes no later than the point in which you find someone younger and cheaper but of the same quality and for me a little earlier than that.

[the_idle_threat]

Again, I'm not even advocating replacing KGB or Franks right now. I'm just saying the point to replace them comes before the point in which you find someone better, certainly it comes no later than the point in which you find someone younger and cheaper but of the same quality and for me a little earlier than that.

:?: :?: :?:

[b bulldog]

I will jump on the replace 88 bandwagon cause he is oft injured and he is not worth the money he is being paid. I also think KGB will take a paycut but that is just a hunch.

[RashanGary]

Idle, he's saying you don't replace them unless someone is better, no matter how much the price of KGB or the discount of the replacement. I disagree with that. Even if the young guy isn't "better" at this point, he might be close and he has upside to be better the following 5 years as KGB declines on top of the 7 million dollar savings.

With this "spend it because it's going no were" logic, there would be no reason to not up the anty for 99 because we don't have anyone better at rushing the passer from the interior and the price doens't matter.

I'm saying price is always an issue. It's not jsut the quility of the player, but the quality of the player in relation to his salary and that even applys to the Packers right now becuase they won't be in such good shape if they forget that concept.

[twoseven]

Idle, he's saying you don't replace them unless someone is better, no matter how much the price of KGB or the discount of the replacement. I disagree with that. Even if the young guy isn't "better" at this point, he might be close and he has upside to be better the following 5 years as KGB declines on top of the 7 million dollar savings.

With this "spend it because it's going no were" logic, there would be no reason to not up the anty for 99 because we don't have anyone better at rushing the passer from the interior and the price doens't matter.

I'm saying price is always an issue. It's not jsut the quility of the player, but the quality of the player in relation to his salary and that even applys to the Packers right now becuase they won't be in such good shape if they forget that concept.
Seriously, you need to stop rambling. Did you watch or listen to any of what Clemens had to say today, because you're reminding me of him right now.

What was our record this year Justin? How close were we to the SB Justin? Why in God's name do you take a step backwards at 3rd down DE (KGB) and lose 8 sacks if money is not a big problem, especially when you are ready to win right now, not 2-3 years from now? Are we rebuilding at 13-3?

Stop trying to tell others what I am saying when you don't seem too keen on it to begin with. KGB is already couting against our cap, CW is NOT, so your sarcastic assumption (yet another one) that throwing 6 mil a year at him is a no brainer is NOT correct.

Cut KGB now, gain 7 mil more of cap space and put who exactly in his place? I'm sure that will really help our chances next year, considering our pass rush was already struggling badly last half of 2007. Oh, but we'll have even more money in the cap and a young hopeful in his place that might be ready in a couple of years. Pure genius.

'You don't replace unless someone is better'? Stop generalizing, I was being specific. Don't cut KGB THIS offseason because we will not find a replacement for his 8 sacks out there, his money is not hurting us THIS year with our big cap, and we are geared to get after the SB THIS year, so why the hell would we stick someone less effective in his place?! Get one more year out of him, then cut his ass or trade him. Get it through your head please, I AM TALKING ABOUT 2008, KGB, and WHY I THINK IT IS UNWISE TO CUT HIM THIS SUMMER VERSUS NEXT SUMMER.

[the_idle_threat]

My 2 cents:

It's too early to know for sure that KGB's production can't be replaced. We have to go into the offseason with that assumption, because nobody has stepped up yet, but there's still the draft and training camp to bring in/develop challengers for his job. This does mean there's no hurry to cut him even though he's a bit overpaid. He's not dramatically so given the rising market (i.e. rising cap), and after the Super Bowl this year, I'll bet pass rush brings an even higher premium.

So we see if a draft pick or another young guy (e.g. Jason Hunter) can come into camp and push for KGB's job. If that happens, then maybe we ask him to renegotiate or cut him. If there's nobody behind him to give us the production, then I agree with twoseven that if you have the money to pay him, you don't just cut him for purely financial reasons and leave your team worse off when they're ready to compete for the Super Bowl.

[twoseven]

My 2 cents:

It's too early to know for sure that KGB's production can't be replaced. We have to go into the offseason with that assumption, because nobody has stepped up yet, but there's still the draft and training camp to bring in/develop challengers for his job. This does mean there's no hurry to cut him even though he's a bit overpaid. He's not dramatically so given the rising market (i.e. rising cap), and after the Super Bowl this year, I'll bet pass rush brings an even higher premium.

So we see if a draft pick or another young guy (e.g. Jason Hunter) can come into camp and push for KGB's job. If that happens, then maybe we ask him to renegotiate or cut him. If there's nobody behind him to give us the production, then I agree with twoseven that if you have the money to pay him, you don't just cut him for purely financial reasons and leave your team worse off when they're ready to compete for the Super Bowl.
One more reason NOT to cut KGB right now..if we cut KGB this off season you can bet dollars to doughnuts he's wearing purple and coming off the edge after Brett or AR in September. MN has even more cap than we do and they need pass rushing DEs desperately. Cut KGB, he'll be a Viking. Bet on it.

[the_idle_threat]

My 2 cents:

It's too early to know for sure that KGB's production can't be replaced. We have to go into the offseason with that assumption, because nobody has stepped up yet, but there's still the draft and training camp to bring in/develop challengers for his job. This does mean there's no hurry to cut him even though he's a bit overpaid. He's not dramatically so given the rising market (i.e. rising cap), and after the Super Bowl this year, I'll bet pass rush brings an even higher premium.

So we see if a draft pick or another young guy (e.g. Jason Hunter) can come into camp and push for KGB's job. If that happens, then maybe we ask him to renegotiate or cut him. If there's nobody behind him to give us the production, then I agree with twoseven that if you have the money to pay him, you don't just cut him for purely financial reasons and leave your team worse off when they're ready to compete for the Super Bowl.
One more reason NOT to cut KGB right now..if we cut KGB this off season you can bet dollars to doughnuts he's wearing purple and coming off the edge after Brett or AR in September. MN has even more cap than we do and they need pass rushing DEs desperately. Cut KGB, he'll be a Viking. Bet on it.

I lean toward keeping KGB too (did you miss where I said I agree with you?) but I'm not married to the idea. I think we keep him through the summer, and if he's better than his competition, we keep him for another year. Even if he's a bit overpaid (i.e. paid starter's money to come off the bench) it's a good enough deal if he produces and we can afford to pay him.

However, if he gets beat out in camp, then he's not a difference maker and the Vikings can have him. You can't hold onto guys who are not earning their money just to play keep-away from other teams. We'll face better pass rushers than KGB. I'm not scared of that.

If it's that big of a concern, then maybe you try to trade him for something cheap, like a conditional pick, just to control where he goes.

[RashanGary]

twoseven, I didn't tell people what you said. I repeated it and paraphrased it quite well.

I'll still agree to disagree on principle that you keeping KGB and Bubba is a no brainer because we don't have anyone better. That logic completely ignores the price vs production value concept that drives competitiveness in the NFL becuase of the CBA.

No amount of tossing around "We're almost there" fan rhetoric is going to change the basic economic concept of oppertunity cost and just because we have money now does't eliminate it either.

[RashanGary]

Get it through your head please, I AM TALKING ABOUT 2008, KGB, and WHY I THINK IT IS UNWISE TO CUT HIM THIS SUMMER VERSUS NEXT SUMMER.

Well, before you go shouting like an angry little kid, why don't you write what you mean next time.

This time you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline and you only related it to the money we had as if to imply having money means spending to say it's spent.

[RashanGary]

And for the record, on the KGB topic, if I had to make the decision with my common fan knowledge I'd keep him too. Just not for the logic of having money and not worrying about spending it. I'd keep him becuase I think he's still very good and slightly overpaid, but not bad enough to cut him.

So I never argued with you about KGB specifically. I argued your logic for it. I thought that was pretty clear. I don't know why you're even trying to prove something I never disagreed with anyway. If you came out in the first place and said KGB's really good at what he does and a one more year, might be a little high priced but probably worth it, I would have jumped right on board with you. When you go through a rationalization involving having money in your pocket so why not spend it, I start to object because that very idea gets tossed around here way to liberally as if it has no concequence. It was the principle. Plus, you're a good new poster. I just wanted to get my opinion out there about fiscal responsiblity to a newby. I've sort of quit talking about it because the regs and I have gone round and round on the same issue too often so it's gotten boring.

[Bretsky]

I'd also keep KGB, even if he is slightly overpaid...which is what I think he is now.

With every passing day we hear nothing, it becomes more likely CWilliams is out the door. Unless TT decides to tag him for the purpose of keeping him for one more year or trying to pressure him to a deal, he's probably good as gone IMO.

I sure would like to see a starting OG brought in here though and then we can let all the youngies fight it out for the other spot.

[KYPack]

He's a one trick pony, but it's a helluva trick. Several teams have spent years trying to find a 3rd down rusher and have never done it.

I once was pissed at KGB, that's a ton of $ for a one down player and he'ds getting 3 down money. But man, QB pressure is a rare commodity and if that's what we gotta pay to get it, that's what we gotta pay.

Maybe Jenkins will get his "3rd down off the edge" act together.

[GrnBay007]

Haven't read all the Wahle stuff. Was this posted?



http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=717534&format=print

"They're a real class organization. I've got a lot of respect for that franchise."

[GrnBay007]

or this.....?




Veteran guard Mike Wahle to meet with Hawks

By José Miguel Romero

Seattle Times staff reporter



Guard Mike Wahle, released Monday by Carolina, made the Pro Bowl in 2005.

Mike Wahle, a one-time Pro Bowl left guard, was on his way to Seattle on Tuesday to meet with the Seahawks today, the team confirmed.

Wahle, 30, was one of two former starters released by the Carolina Panthers in a cost-cutting move Monday after three seasons there. He's a 10-year NFL veteran who was originally selected in the second round of the supplemental draft in 1998 by the Green Bay Packers.

The NFL free-agency period won't start until next month, but Wahle can talk to the Seahawks now because he was released and does not have a contract that is expiring. The 6-foot-6, 304-pound lineman could address the Seahawks' need to make improvements on their offensive line, particularly in run blocking.

Second-year pro Rob Sims started every game of the 2007 season at left guard and struggled at times. In the second half of the season, Sims was replaced by veteran Floyd Womack during games.

The Seahawks have yet to find a satisfiable replacement for Steve Hutchinson, who left in free agency for the Minnesota Vikings before the 2006 season. Wahle, who was born in Portland and went to high school in Southern California, has missed just three regular-season games in his entire career.

[KYPack]

Haven't read all the Wahle stuff. Was this posted?



http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=717534&format=print

"They're a real class organization. I've got a lot of respect for that franchise."

No, but check the Wahle/Morgan thread below.

Patler posted some stuff about the Packer/Wahle rift when he was cut by us. His cap number was over 11 mil that time!

(In the JSO article you posted the link for, they don't list Juice Coston as one of the guards.)

[RashanGary]

We'll see how it goes. He's 31. Our guys are 23, 24, 25. . . .


If he passes a physical and is close to the player that left here 3 years ago, you'd have to think he'd be an upgrade over the last guard on our roster at the very least. At best, he's an instant starter and makes our whole line better.

Clifton/Colledge/Barbre
Wahle/Colledge/Barbre
Wells/Spitz
Spitz/Coston/Moll
Tauscher/Moll


I don't think it will be as good as the great lines of the early 2000's, but it's certainly deeper and somewhat prepared for the retirement of the OT's as opposed to how unprepared we were for the exit of the OG's a few years ago.

[twoseven]

My 2 cents:

It's too early to know for sure that KGB's production can't be replaced. We have to go into the offseason with that assumption, because nobody has stepped up yet, but there's still the draft and training camp to bring in/develop challengers for his job. This does mean there's no hurry to cut him even though he's a bit overpaid. He's not dramatically so given the rising market (i.e. rising cap), and after the Super Bowl this year, I'll bet pass rush brings an even higher premium.

So we see if a draft pick or another young guy (e.g. Jason Hunter) can come into camp and push for KGB's job. If that happens, then maybe we ask him to renegotiate or cut him. If there's nobody behind him to give us the production, then I agree with twoseven that if you have the money to pay him, you don't just cut him for purely financial reasons and leave your team worse off when they're ready to compete for the Super Bowl.
One more reason NOT to cut KGB right now..if we cut KGB this off season you can bet dollars to doughnuts he's wearing purple and coming off the edge after Brett or AR in September. MN has even more cap than we do and they need pass rushing DEs desperately. Cut KGB, he'll be a Viking. Bet on it.

I lean toward keeping KGB too (did you miss where I said I agree with you?) but I'm not married to the idea. I think we keep him through the summer, and if he's better than his competition, we keep him for another year. Even if he's a bit overpaid (i.e. paid starter's money to come off the bench) it's a good enough deal if he produces and we can afford to pay him.

However, if he gets beat out in camp, then he's not a difference maker and the Vikings can have him. You can't hold onto guys who are not earning their money just to play keep-away from other teams. We'll face better pass rushers than KGB. I'm not scared of that.

If it's that big of a concern, then maybe you try to trade him for something cheap, like a conditional pick, just to control where he goes.
Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you one bit. Your line about what happened in the SB bringing an even higher premium on pass rushers seemed the perfect sedgway into what I think the Vikings might do if we turn him loose.

Personally, I do not want to see a still effective KGB playing for MN. Their dline is already pretty damn good, leave for a pass rushing DE.

[twoseven]

Get it through your head please, I AM TALKING ABOUT 2008, KGB, and WHY I THINK IT IS UNWISE TO CUT HIM THIS SUMMER VERSUS NEXT SUMMER.

Well, before you go shouting like an angry little kid, why don't you write what you mean next time.

This time you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline and you only related it to the money we had as if to imply having money means spending to say it's spent.
You quote me exactly, it says I am talking about KGB for 2008. Yet you come away with you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline . Priceless. Talking to you is like clapping with one hand..

Advice for you..instead of taking three left turns, just drive straight, it's faster and doesn't drive everyone in your car insane.

[Zool]

Advice for you..instead of taking three left turns, just drive straight, it's faster and doesn't drive everyone in your car insane.

I wanted to leave this alone, but its just not in me. 3 left turns=1 right turn.

[RashanGary]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.


Idle, he's saying you don't replace them unless someone is better, no matter how much the price of KGB or the discount of the replacement. I disagree with that. Even if the young guy isn't "better" at this point, he might be close and he has upside to be better the following 5 years as KGB declines on top of the 7 million dollar savings.

With this "spend it because it's going no were" logic, there would be no reason to not up the anty for 99 because we don't have anyone better at rushing the passer from the interior and the price doens't matter.

I'm saying price is always an issue. It's not jsut the quility of the player, but the quality of the player in relation to his salary and that even applys to the Packers right now becuase they won't be in such good shape if they forget that concept.


Get it through your head please, I AM TALKING ABOUT 2008, KGB, and WHY I THINK IT IS UNWISE TO CUT HIM THIS SUMMER VERSUS NEXT SUMMER.


Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.


You quote me exactly, it says I am talking about KGB for 2008. Yet you come away with you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline . Priceless. Talking to you is like clapping with one hand..

Advice for you..instead of taking three left turns, just drive straight, it's faster and doesn't drive everyone in your car insane.


Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.



Seems to me like you're the on taking all left turns. Even your 3 left turn to go straight analogy is inaccurate.

It's not a whole lot of fun for me to run around and cut and paste and quote you to refresh your memory on what you said. Most people here just sort of admit they may have mis communicated and change their view, at which point everyone just sort of moves on, realizing there wasn't much of a disagreement. Rather than doing that, you pretend you never said it, make something new up and try to argue about something I never disagreed with to begin with. Rediculous.

[The Leaper]

Why is there a need to cut KGB or Franks right now? We have no issues with the cap and they are both respected veteran members of the locker room.

If, in the course of training camp, they do not prove themselves to be clearly better than others at their position making far less...then you cut them.

Otherwise, it is pointless to argue in favor of dumping either guy at this time without adequate evidence that either has a capable replacement.

[twoseven]

Advice for you..instead of taking three left turns, just drive straight, it's faster and doesn't drive everyone in your car insane.

I wanted to leave this alone, but its just not in me. 3 left turns=1 right turn.
Thanks Zool, FOUR left turns. It was early.

[twoseven]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.


Idle, he's saying you don't replace them unless someone is better, no matter how much the price of KGB or the discount of the replacement. I disagree with that. Even if the young guy isn't "better" at this point, he might be close and he has upside to be better the following 5 years as KGB declines on top of the 7 million dollar savings.

With this "spend it because it's going no were" logic, there would be no reason to not up the anty for 99 because we don't have anyone better at rushing the passer from the interior and the price doens't matter.

I'm saying price is always an issue. It's not jsut the quility of the player, but the quality of the player in relation to his salary and that even applys to the Packers right now becuase they won't be in such good shape if they forget that concept.


Get it through your head please, I AM TALKING ABOUT 2008, KGB, and WHY I THINK IT IS UNWISE TO CUT HIM THIS SUMMER VERSUS NEXT SUMMER.


Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.


You quote me exactly, it says I am talking about KGB for 2008. Yet you come away with you said high priced players like KGB as if to include many (if not any) high priced players on their decline . Priceless. Talking to you is like clapping with one hand..

Advice for you..instead of taking three left turns, just drive straight, it's faster and doesn't drive everyone in your car insane.


Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.



Seems to me like you're the on taking all left turns. Even your 3 left turn to go straight analogy is inaccurate.

It's not a whole lot of fun for me to run around and cut and paste and quote you to refresh your memory on what you said. Most people here just sort of admit they may have mis communicated and change their view, at which point everyone just sort of moves on, realizing there wasn't much of a disagreement. Rather than doing that, you pretend you never said it, make something new up and try to argue about something I never disagreed with to begin with. Rediculous.
That you went to the lengths that you did to prove that your are right and I am wrong about what I said and what I meant by editing and omitting the shit out of good chunks of several posts, concerning something as simple as let's keep KGB and Bubba, etc.. speaks volumes about you, chief.

[twoseven]

Why is there a need to cut KGB or Franks right now? We have no issues with the cap and they are both respected veteran members of the locker room.

If, in the course of training camp, they do not prove themselves to be clearly better than others at their position making far less...then you cut them.

Otherwise, it is pointless to argue in favor of dumping either guy at this time without adequate evidence that either has a capable replacement.
Careful Leaper, that was my exact point to begin with. Look what it got me, a good rodgering courtesy of Justin Harell, ouch.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Bring back Wahle. Colledge needs a role model.

*Edit*

Give Bubba another year. Can he play guard too?

[woodbuck27]

Did TT get to really trying to sign Cory Williams during the season?

It never should harm anyone to try that approach or am I wrong there? Am I missing something? Cory Williams will likely leave now (the BIG BUCKS) and he made it very clear he loved playing for and living in Green Bay. When he came out with that stuff I would have waited a week of two and gone right after him. That man is a Packer afterall.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

Why is there a need to cut KGB or Franks right now? We have no issues with the cap and they are both respected veteran members of the locker room.

If, in the course of training camp, they do not prove themselves to be clearly better than others at their position making far less...then you cut them.

Otherwise, it is pointless to argue in favor of dumping either guy at this time without adequate evidence that either has a capable replacement.

Now that's being very logical.