DRC - Are you buying the hype??

[Partial]

Dominic Rodgers-Cromartie is being hyped up by scouts to be a clone of his cousin.

I am not sure I believe this because he bro was a top 5 talent who got hurt in college. He was also recruited by a big time powerhouse in FSU.

DRC went to a small school. I don't understand why that would be if he was such a fantastic athlete.

Has anyone here seen him play? I certainly have not. If he turns out to be a freakish jock like his cousin, I would love to have him.

[Joemailman]

He may be a late bloomer physically and may have escaped the notice of the big universities coming out of high school. Or maybe he preferred a small school. Who knows? The only drawback to a talented guy coming from a small school is that he might take a little longer to develop. That wouldn't bother me since the Packers won't be expecting him to start as a rookie anyway. He's getting a lot of attention, and if he has a great combine, he may not be available when the Packers pick.

By the way, I believe it's his cousin who plays for the Chargers, not his brother.

[ny10804]

He only started playing football in high school during his senior year.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/dominiquerodgerscromartie.html

His draft grade came before he dominated in the senior bowl.

[BallHawk]

No.

This draft screams trade down.

[Partial]

By the way, I believe it's his cousin who plays for the Chargers, not his brother.

I know I think I had a typo in there. I keep thinking brother when I hear clone of cousin. Don't know why. At any rate, is this guy looking like our guy?

It'll be interesting to see how he tests out at the Combine. I really wish I had NFLN this time of year.

[BallHawk]

If the hype continues to follow him and he does well at the combine (basically runs a good 40) then I doubt he'll be there when we pick.

[The Leaper]

This draft screams trade down.

But our position screams draft up.

For the 391st time, anyone who claims we are in some kind of great position to trade down ignores past history. Teams typically don't trade up into the last 2-3 spots of the 1st round...because the salary they will be paying their pick will be twice what it would be if they stood pat in the 2nd round.

Sure, we all love trading down...but you need to have a partner willing to trade up, and history suggests we won't find one where our #1 pick lies.

[Zool]

2007 draft

4, Philadelphia traded its first-round (No. 26) to Dallas for the Cowboys' second- (No. 36); third- (No. 87) and fifth-round (No. 159) picks. Dallas selected Anthony Spencer, lb, Purdue. Philadelphia selected Kevin Kolb, qb, Houston; Stewart Bradley, lb, Nebraska and (No. 159).

5, New England traded its first-round (No. 28) to San Francisco for the 49ers' fourth-round (No. 110) pick and 2008 first-round pick. San Francisco selected Joe Staley, ot, Central Michigan. New England selected (No. 110).

2006 Draft

3. New York Giants traded their first-round (No. 25) pick to Pittsburgh for the Steelers' first- (No. 32), third- (No. 96) and fourth-round (No. 129) picks. Pittsburgh took Santonio Holmes, wr, Ohio State. New York took Mathias Kiwanuka, de, Boston College and Gerris Wilkinson, lb, Georgia Tech.

4. Chicago traded its first-round (No. 26) pick to Buffalo for the Bills' second- (No. 42) and third-round (No. 73) picks. Buffalo took John McCargo, dt, N.C. State. Chicago took Danieal Manning, db, Abilene Christian and Dusty Dvoracek, dt, Oklahoma.

2005 Draft

Raiders get: Jets' first-round pick (No. 26), which they used to select CB Fabian Washington, and seventh-round pick (No. 230), which they later traded.
Jets get: Raiders TE Doug Jolley, a second-round pick (No. 47 overall), which they used to select K Mike Nugent, and two sixth-round picks (No. 182 and No. 185), which they used to select RB Cedric Houston and traded the other pick.

Redskins get: Denver's first-round pick (No. 25), which is used to select QB Jason Campbell.
Broncos get: Washington's third-round pick (No. 76) they used to select CB Karl Paymah, and first- and fourth-round picks in next year's draft.

I'll just stop there for now. Its not unheard of to trade in the latter part of the 1st, but its unusual to be 30th or later and swing a trade.

[vince]

Leaper, I also did a bit of research on this, and found evidence that at least partially contradicts what you've said here. My guess is that you missed the thread as it dropped down the page, so here's a link to it.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=238502&highlight=#238502

and here's the post and data...


Leap, the information I came up with is different than you cited.

Gonzalez signed a 5/$7.5 mil deal, not a 5/$10 mil. deal according to Rotoworld.

Also, except for the length of contract dropping from 5 to 4 years, there is no evidence that I can find to suggest an inordinate drop in salaries from the first to second rounds. Of course there's a drop, but it is far less than you indicated and not out of line with the differences in contracts only slightly above this area of the draft board.

In my opinion, it's certainly not enough of a drop to automatically conclude that no GM who sees someone on the board that they think could really help their team would would be interested in trading up, particularly if they fear losing the opportunity to get that player between #30 and whenever they may pick lower down the board.

Here are the relevant draft picks, contracts and the annual drop in pay from pick to pick surrounding the end of the first round and into the top of the second...

Pick.......Name.....................Years......Mil lions.......Difference from Previous Pick per Year

25.........John Beason.............5............12.51
26........Anthony Spencer.........5...........9.................$702 ,000 less
27........Robert Meachum.........5..........11.3..............$460, 000 MORE
28........Joe Staley..................5............8............ ....$660,000 less
29........Ben Grubbs................5............8.............. ...$ same
30........Craig Davis.................5..........7.83............$ 34,000 less
31........Greg Olson.................5..........7.769...........$ 12,200 less
32........Anthony Gonzalez.......5...........7.5..............$53,80 0 less
ROUND 2
33........Alan Branch................4.............5............. .$250,000 less
34........Paul Posluszny...........4.............4.75..........$6 2,500 less
35........Arron Sears
36........Kevin Kolb..................4............4.32..........$ 53,750 less
37........Eric Weddle.................4
38........Zach Miller..................4
39........Justin Blalock
40........John Beck...................4............4.5........... $11,250 MORE

[The Leaper]

Most of Zool's examples are in the 25-26 pick range...which isn't exactly the last few picks of the 1st round.

Also, nearly all of the trades included either future first round picks in return (which is something Thompson has openly admitted he is wary of) or included current NFL players as part of the deal.

A true "trade-down" to acquire additional picks in the current draft to help you is what I'm arguing is less likely...not trading your pick to acquire other NFL players or gamble on some future 1st round pick, which Thompson probably isn't willing to do.

[twoseven]

Rocket Ismail versus Qadre Ismail?

Kris Jenkins versus Cullen Jenkins?

Ty Detmer versus Koy Detmer?

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive. Don't mention Eli, Peyton is still a much better QB, regardless of them both having the one ring.

Drafting Cromartie for his name only, no thank you.

[The Leaper]

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive.

You can add Matt/Tim Hasselbeck to your list.

The problem is that there are probably numerous example of younger brothers being better than the older brothers too. It is just that we are more likely to remember when the older brother is successful first and heaps expectations on a younger brother. If a younger brother pans out, but his older brother was never in the picture, we aren't going to hear about it.

[The Leaper]

Leaper, I also did a bit of research on this, and found evidence that at least partially contradicts what you've said here.

I was going off the $10M deal I saw for Gonzalez...so it is possible then that there is less emphasis on the money. However, I still think the amount of guaranteed money from 1st to 2nd round is still fairly significant...which is why teams push for that 5th year on 1st round deals.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rocket Ismail versus Qadre Ismail?

Kris Jenkins versus Cullen Jenkins?

Ty Detmer versus Koy Detmer?

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive. Don't mention Eli, Peyton is still a much better QB, regardless of them both having the one ring.

Drafting Cromartie for his name only, no thank you.

Great examples, too bad they have nothing to do with DCR as he is a COUSIN.

BTW, Q vs. R ismail: 68 GS, 353, 5137 or 74, 363, 5295...OOOPS!!! Q kills in in KR.

Kris Jenkis: 85 Games, 64 GS, 18 sacks. Cullen: 62 games, 29 GS, 14 sacks. AND STILL PLAYING. Shortlived comet or 10 year average player. I'll take Cullen.

[twoseven]

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive.

You can add Matt/Tim Hasselbeck to your list.

The problem is that there are probably numerous example of younger brothers being better than the older brothers too. It is just that we are more likely to remember when the older brother is successful first and heaps expectations on a younger brother. If a younger brother pans out, but his older brother was never in the picture, we aren't going to hear about it.
The older brother probably kicked little brother's ass so often growing up, the inferiority complex that ensued will never allow the older brother to be outplayed, so never draft the sibling.

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Darren Sharper was better than his younger LB brother Jamie.

[twoseven]

Rocket Ismail versus Qadre Ismail?

Kris Jenkins versus Cullen Jenkins?

Ty Detmer versus Koy Detmer?

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive. Don't mention Eli, Peyton is still a much better QB, regardless of them both having the one ring.

Drafting Cromartie for his name only, no thank you.

Great examples, too bad they have nothing to do with DCR as he is a COUSIN.

BTW, Q vs. R ismail: 68 GS, 353, 5137 or 74, 363, 5295...OOOPS!!! Q kills in in KR.

Kris Jenkis: 85 Games, 64 GS, 18 sacks. Cullen: 62 games, 29 GS, 14 sacks. AND STILL PLAYING. Shortlived comet or 10 year average player. I'll take Cullen.
Kris is a massive DT that stuffs the run, not a pass rusher. Anyone that has actually watched Kris Jenkins play will still take what he's done on the CAR line (think Pickett, but every year he played) over what Cullen has done for us.

[The Leaper]

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Brett Favre outplayed his older brother Scott.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples...but when younger brothers succeed, rarely do the older brothers get a chance to prove themselves...as their playing days are, in essence, done.

When older brothers succeed, their younger brothers get plenty of chances based on the success of their older brother...probably a few too many. That is why there are so many examples of failed younger brothers that come to mind.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rocket Ismail versus Qadre Ismail?

Kris Jenkins versus Cullen Jenkins?

Ty Detmer versus Koy Detmer?

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive. Don't mention Eli, Peyton is still a much better QB, regardless of them both having the one ring.

Drafting Cromartie for his name only, no thank you.

Great examples, too bad they have nothing to do with DCR as he is a COUSIN.

BTW, Q vs. R ismail: 68 GS, 353, 5137 or 74, 363, 5295...OOOPS!!! Q kills in in KR.

Kris Jenkis: 85 Games, 64 GS, 18 sacks. Cullen: 62 games, 29 GS, 14 sacks. AND STILL PLAYING. Shortlived comet or 10 year average player. I'll take Cullen.
Kris is a massive DT that stuffs the run, not a pass rusher. Anyone that has actually watched Kris Jenkins play will still take what he's done on the CAR line (think Pickett, but every year he played) over what Cullen has done for us.

Kris WAS a player, but i'll take 10 years of being solid over 3 years of being great. You think Carolina wasn't hurting paying him a ton of cash for him to basically not play for 2 consecutive years. And, not one start last year.

Consistency with a team is what makes teams great.

I'll just take the fact that you didn't mention DCR and Q vs. R as tacit admission of your mistake.

[twoseven]

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Brett Favre outplayed his older brother Scott.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples...but when younger brothers succeed, rarely do the older brothers get a chance to prove themselves...as their playing days are, in essence, done.

When older brothers succeed, their younger brothers get plenty of chances based on the success of their older brother...probably a few too many. That is why there are so many examples of failed younger brothers that come to mind.
That's true. Few will remember that the Gramaticas and the Del Grecos had some serious battles as to who was el burro grande in their families.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive.

You can add Matt/Tim Hasselbeck to your list.

The problem is that there are probably numerous example of younger brothers being better than the older brothers too. It is just that we are more likely to remember when the older brother is successful first and heaps expectations on a younger brother. If a younger brother pans out, but his older brother was never in the picture, we aren't going to hear about it.
The older brother probably kicked little brother's ass so often growing up, the inferiority complex that ensued will never allow the older brother to be outplayed, so never draft the sibling.

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Darren Sharper was better than his younger LB brother Jamie.

I already gave you Quadry.

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.

Hard to discern when one brother plays o and the other plays defense. Tiki vs. Ronde.

But, i'm pretty sure we'll see kenny irons outperform david.

Time will tell for the Bullocks.

[Charles Woodson]

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive.

You can add Matt/Tim Hasselbeck to your list.

The problem is that there are probably numerous example of younger brothers being better than the older brothers too. It is just that we are more likely to remember when the older brother is successful first and heaps expectations on a younger brother. If a younger brother pans out, but his older brother was never in the picture, we aren't going to hear about it.
The older brother probably kicked little brother's ass so often growing up, the inferiority complex that ensued will never allow the older brother to be outplayed, so never draft the sibling.

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Darren Sharper was better than his younger LB brother Jamie.

I already gave you Quadry.

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.

Hard to discern when one brother plays o and the other plays defense. Tiki vs. Ronde.

But, i'm pretty sure we'll see kenny irons outperform david.

Time will tell for the Bullocks.

Peyton outplayed eli,

[twoseven]

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.
Arguable at best, especially amongst Packer fans. If Sterling doesn't have the neck injury he probably goes on to be one of the best WRs in history. Shannon was very good, but I think Sterling's ceiling was much higher.

[twoseven]

Romeo Bigguns was a much better poster than Tyrone.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.
Arguable at best, especially amongst Packer fans. If Sterling doesn't have the neck injury he probably goes on to be one of the best WRs in history. Shannon was very good, but I think Sterling's ceiling was much higher.

If my aunt was my sister...blah blah blah.

Look, my friend, we can play the "what if" game all you want. But, when people analyze careers you can only go with what is in the books.

Shannon had a better career. And, arguably SS revolutionized the TE position. From needing to be a blocker to being a receiver.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

IMO, the little brother was/has not been quite as productive.

You can add Matt/Tim Hasselbeck to your list.

The problem is that there are probably numerous example of younger brothers being better than the older brothers too. It is just that we are more likely to remember when the older brother is successful first and heaps expectations on a younger brother. If a younger brother pans out, but his older brother was never in the picture, we aren't going to hear about it.
The older brother probably kicked little brother's ass so often growing up, the inferiority complex that ensued will never allow the older brother to be outplayed, so never draft the sibling.

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Darren Sharper was better than his younger LB brother Jamie.

I already gave you Quadry.

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.

Hard to discern when one brother plays o and the other plays defense. Tiki vs. Ronde.

But, i'm pretty sure we'll see kenny irons outperform david.

Time will tell for the Bullocks.

Peyton outplayed eli,

How so? Eli won his first championship years quicker than Peyton.

[twoseven]

If my aunt was my sister...blah blah blah.


..you'd be from Kentucky.

[twoseven]

Peyton outplayed eli,

How so? Eli won his first championship years quicker than Peyton.
You're saying you would take Eli over Peyton Manning as a player because he got a SB win faster? So.. stats matter when looking at the Sharpe's and Ismails but not when looking at the Mannings?

[Charles Woodson]

Peyton outplayed eli,

How so? Eli won his first championship years quicker than Peyton.
You're saying you would take Eli over Peyton Manning as a player because he got a SB win faster? So.. stats matter when looking at the Sharpe's and Ismails but not when looking at the Mannings?

but anyways how does this compare to cromartie since they are cousins and not brothers.

[twoseven]

Peyton outplayed eli,

How so? Eli won his first championship years quicker than Peyton.
You're saying you would take Eli over Peyton Manning as a player because he got a SB win faster? So.. stats matter when looking at the Sharpe's and Ismails but not when looking at the Mannings?

but anyways how does this compare to cromartie since they are cousins and not brothers.
It doesn't. Blame Partial.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Peyton outplayed eli,

How so? Eli won his first championship years quicker than Peyton.
You're saying you would take Eli over Peyton Manning as a player because he got a SB win faster? So.. stats matter when looking at the Sharpe's and Ismails but not when looking at the Mannings?

QB is a special case where winning superbowls seems to count more than almost anything else. Not saying I agree with that..but, it seems to come up here alot.

Stats: I wouldn't ever say OUTPLAYED since Eli has been in the league for a much shorter time. I wouldn't even begin to compare their careers.

I used Q and SS because their careers were OVER. You brought up Eli and Peyton..not i.

[twoseven]

QB is a special case where winning superbowls seems to count more than almost anything else. Not saying I agree with that..but, it seems to come up here alot.

I have yet to hear an argument in favor of a QB because he won a SB faster than another.

[KYPack]

If my aunt was my sister...blah blah blah.


..you'd be from Kentucky.

Now, now, 27.

Them, "Did your mom & dad meet at the family re-union"? jokes will get yer ass shot down here.

[twoseven]

If my aunt was my sister...blah blah blah.


..you'd be from Kentucky.

Now, now, 27.

Them, "Did your mom & dad meet at the family re-union"? jokes will get yer ass shot down here.
Hey man, your avatar is laughing about it right now.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

QB is a special case where winning superbowls seems to count more than almost anything else. Not saying I agree with that..but, it seems to come up here alot.

I have yet to hear an argument in favor of a QB because he won a SB faster than another.

Fine, then it is one to one. Still haven't outplayed.

More importantly, you brought them up. Stupid, their careers aren't over.

[Charles Woodson]

QB is a special case where winning superbowls seems to count more than almost anything else. Not saying I agree with that..but, it seems to come up here alot.

I have yet to hear an argument in favor of a QB because he won a SB faster than another.

Fine, then it is one to one. Still haven't outplayed.

More importantly, you brought them up. Stupid, their careers aren't over.

what do you mean that one hasnt outplayed the other yet?
comparing eli's first 4 years to peytons is a joke


And i brought them up not 27

Eli: comps:987 attmps 1,805 %54.7 yds 11,385 avg6.3 tds77 ints64**didnt play much his first year

Peyton:comps:1357 attmps:2226 %61 Yds:16,418 avg 7.4 tds:111 ints 81

the first 4 years of each of their carrers peyton destroyed eli, granted eli didnt even start his first year

interesting note that peyton reached 4,000 yards in his 2nd year while eli has yet to reach it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

QB is a special case where winning superbowls seems to count more than almost anything else. Not saying I agree with that..but, it seems to come up here alot.

I have yet to hear an argument in favor of a QB because he won a SB faster than another.

Fine, then it is one to one. Still haven't outplayed.

More importantly, you brought them up. Stupid, their careers aren't over.

what do you mean that one hasnt outplayed the other yet?
comparing eli's first 4 years to peytons is a joke


And i brought them up not 27

Eli: comps:987 attmps 1,805 %54.7 yds 11,385 avg6.3 tds77 ints64**didnt play much his first year

Peyton:comps:1357 attmps:2226 %61 Yds:16,418 avg 7.4 tds:111 ints 81

the first 4 years of each of their carrers peyton destroyed eli, granted eli didnt even start his first year

interesting note that peyton reached 4,000 yards in his 2nd year while eli has yet to reach it.

Destroyed is a strong term.

It is pretty useless comparing Peyton to Eli as the teams offenses aren't even close.

Both started with good/great rbs, but pretty much everyone would rather start with Faulk than Tiki.

Comparing yardage is also poor..i'd say the same thing for a number of QBs (big ben)..the colts go down the field way more than the giants.

Peyton calls his own plays, Eli doesn't. Coughlin is very conservative..clone of Parcells.

Anyone who watched the giants for any part of the year saw that outside of plax their recievers were really poor. toomer dropped tons of balls.

Couglin will never pass that much downfield, the gmen are a running team, eli is playing in the toughest market in the world, etc.

Rookie year: leading gmen receivers are toomer and hilliard. Things are bad when ike hilliard is your #2 receiver. No legit 3rd wr.

Next year: Hilliard gone, plax in. So, working with brand new receiver. Still no 3rd receiver.

3rd year: Plax, decling Toomer plays 8 games with 32 catches, still no 3rd wr. Tim Carter is 3rd WR..with 19 catches. C'mon, we all saw how bad favre looked when we had scrubs. You expect more from eli?

4th: Plax and toomer. Still no 3rd wr. Shockey lost at end of season.

And, no dominant back.

Peyton first year: 3 receivers around 50..1 more than eli. Some HOF named Harrison. Also two legit TEs..pollard and dilger.

2nd: Harrison 115 receptions. Stud rb in james. Still had pathon. Still had two TEs.

3rd: Dominant james. 3 WRs. Still two TEs.

4th: Harrison, wayne, pathon, wilkins, dilger, pollard.

If you wanna say peyton was better in their early years..fine. But, the point was comparing brothers..and i think it is best to do when their careers are over.

At this stage of the game, eli has answered a question that plagued him for 9 years..well, more if you wanna count 4 years at Tenn. Eli answered the bell, and that counts for something.

And, against the greatest team EVUH!!! :P

[Bretsky]

Shannon Sharpe is a good example.
Arguable at best, especially amongst Packer fans. If Sterling doesn't have the neck injury he probably goes on to be one of the best WRs in history. Shannon was very good, but I think Sterling's ceiling was much higher.

If my aunt was my sister...blah blah blah.

Look, my friend, we can play the "what if" game all you want. But, when people analyze careers you can only go with what is in the books.

Shannon had a better career. And, arguably SS revolutionized the TE position. From needing to be a blocker to being a receiver.


When I think of who revolutionized the TE position that way Kellen Winslow of the Chargers jumps out at me. But then there were some clods after him and SS continued on.

[Bretsky]

While using details effectively, I have a hard time thinking TB actually believes Eli is close to as good as Payton or will be for that matter at the end of their respective careers.

Eli had a nice run the second half of the season and in the playoffs. Before that he was nothing more than a decent QB.

[Charles Woodson]

If you wanna say peyton was better in their early years..fine. But, the point was comparing brothers..and i think it is best to do when their careers are over.



yes i still do think that peyton is better than eli, hell if eli had not won the sb, everyone would still be saying how bad he was.... i do agree with the fact that comparing them when their careers are over, but thats a hell of a long time away. And when comparing them, people will compare elis stats which includes his first 4 years.

i do acknoledge that peyton had a much better team overall, but saying that the giants had no dominant back is bull, Brandon jacobs was injured for the first few games and still hit 1000 yds. When he was hurt ward filled in and did a phenomenal job. Near the end of the season Bradshaw came in and swept up

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If you wanna say peyton was better in their early years..fine. But, the point was comparing brothers..and i think it is best to do when their careers are over.



yes i still do think that peyton is better than eli, hell if eli had not won the sb, everyone would still be saying how bad he was.... i do agree with the fact that comparing them when their careers are over, but thats a hell of a long time away. And when comparing them, people will compare elis stats which includes his first 4 years.

i do acknoledge that peyton had a much better team overall, but saying that the giants had no dominant back is bull, Brandon jacobs was injured for the first few games and still hit 1000 yds. When he was hurt ward filled in and did a phenomenal job. Near the end of the season Bradshaw came in and swept up

If 1000 yards is dominant to you, fine. But, far from it for me.

Jacobs is a nice back, and they have complementary backs. But, none of them compare to Faulk or edge in his prime. Jacobs barely catches the ball.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

While using details effectively, I have a hard time thinking TB actually believes Eli is close to as good as Payton or will be for that matter at the end of their respective careers.

Eli had a nice run the second half of the season and in the playoffs. Before that he was nothing more than a decent QB.

B,

I watched Eli a lot in college...Ty lived in the south before relocating his box to the desert. I have tremendous respect for eli..he went to his father's alma mater...lot of guts to do that. Lot of guts to lead an undermanned squad against better talent. Witness their decline after he left.

Ty watched alot of Peyton at UT..could not win the big game.

Ty respects both QBs, but Ty definitely thinks eli is mentally tougher. Ty thinks eli would do just fine with indys talent. Ty isn't so sure about peyton in NYC. Nor with the talent eli had. And, with a ball buster like coughlin.

[Noodle]

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Vince DiMaggio (older) v. Joe DiMaggio (better)

[The Leaper]

Ty respects both QBs, but Ty definitely thinks eli is mentally tougher. Ty thinks eli would do just fine with indys talent. Ty isn't so sure about peyton in NYC. Nor with the talent eli had. And, with a ball buster like coughlin.

I'm not sure about the mental toughness part, as Eli never once looked mentally tough prior to this postseason. He did grow up big time during this season, but he was a deer in headlights prior to this.

I'm not sure there is any argument as to who is the better QB overall. Peyton's numbers are HOF caliber...Eli's are not. Both rode teams to SB wins on the strength of a great defense...although I think Eli did much more to help his team on the SB run than Peyton did.

Does one SB run make Eli a better overall QB? I don't think so. If I had to choose between them, I'd take Peyton every time...even now.

[oregonpackfan]

I agree that Peyton is the proven winner. Eli had a tremendous second half of the season. To be in Peyton's upper echelon, Eli is going to have to perform at this current level for the next 5 years, IMO.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty respects both QBs, but Ty definitely thinks eli is mentally tougher. Ty thinks eli would do just fine with indys talent. Ty isn't so sure about peyton in NYC. Nor with the talent eli had. And, with a ball buster like coughlin.

I'm not sure about the mental toughness part, as Eli never once looked mentally tough prior to this postseason. He did grow up big time during this season, but he was a deer in headlights prior to this.

I'm not sure there is any argument as to who is the better QB overall. Peyton's numbers are HOF caliber...Eli's are not. Both rode teams to SB wins on the strength of a great defense...although I think Eli did much more to help his team on the SB run than Peyton did.

Does one SB run make Eli a better overall QB? I don't think so. If I had to choose between them, I'd take Peyton every time...even now.

I think he did. Did you ever hear him complain about the media or the coach. Or about his fellow players?

this year, when Tiki called him out, he responded.

Peyton was never considered mentally tough all the way back to college. Thus the "peyton manning face."

There is no doubt that Peyton is the better QB at the moment, but as i have said, let's wait until the careers are over.

[cpk1994]

Now I'm curious, can anyone come up with a younger brother that outplayed the older one?

Brett Favre outplayed his older brother Scott.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples...but when younger brothers succeed, rarely do the older brothers get a chance to prove themselves...as their playing days are, in essence, done.

When older brothers succeed, their younger brothers get plenty of chances based on the success of their older brother...probably a few too many. That is why there are so many examples of failed younger brothers that come to mind.
That's true. Few will remember that the Gramaticas and the Del Grecos had some serious battles as to who was el burro grande in their families.Don't forget the Kicking Zendejas's, Luis, Tony, and Max.

[The Leaper]

I think he did. Did you ever hear him complain about the media or the coach. Or about his fellow players?

Personally, I don't think either guy is really mentally tough. They are physically skilled, but both have had their share of mental miscues over the years.

I do agree that this debate is one that is better left for 5+ years down the road...too early to really judge either guy on an absolute basis just yet.

[Charles Woodson]

If you wanna say peyton was better in their early years..fine. But, the point was comparing brothers..and i think it is best to do when their careers are over.



yes i still do think that peyton is better than eli, hell if eli had not won the sb, everyone would still be saying how bad he was.... i do agree with the fact that comparing them when their careers are over, but thats a hell of a long time away. And when comparing them, people will compare elis stats which includes his first 4 years.

i do acknoledge that peyton had a much better team overall, but saying that the giants had no dominant back is bull, Brandon jacobs was injured for the first few games and still hit 1000 yds. When he was hurt ward filled in and did a phenomenal job. Near the end of the season Bradshaw came in and swept up

If 1000 yards is dominant to you, fine. But, far from it for me.

Jacobs is a nice back, and they have complementary backs. But, none of them compare to Faulk or edge in his prime. Jacobs barely catches the ball.

he didnt play in 5 games, and he barely played in the season opener... I think he played well in the games he did, hit 100 yards in 5 outa the 10 games, and never had a avg. lower than 3.2, while he had mostly 5 avg.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If you wanna say peyton was better in their early years..fine. But, the point was comparing brothers..and i think it is best to do when their careers are over.



yes i still do think that peyton is better than eli, hell if eli had not won the sb, everyone would still be saying how bad he was.... i do agree with the fact that comparing them when their careers are over, but thats a hell of a long time away. And when comparing them, people will compare elis stats which includes his first 4 years.

i do acknoledge that peyton had a much better team overall, but saying that the giants had no dominant back is bull, Brandon jacobs was injured for the first few games and still hit 1000 yds. When he was hurt ward filled in and did a phenomenal job. Near the end of the season Bradshaw came in and swept up

If 1000 yards is dominant to you, fine. But, far from it for me.

Jacobs is a nice back, and they have complementary backs. But, none of them compare to Faulk or edge in his prime. Jacobs barely catches the ball.

he didnt play in 5 games, and he barely played in the season opener... I think he played well in the games he did, hit 100 yards in 5 outa the 10 games, and never had a avg. lower than 3.2, while he had mostly 5 avg.

Ya gotta play to be dominant...that is kinda a criteria...and catch the ball.

As i said, he is a nice back..certainly what they hoped for when they drafted a certain UW back, but i wouldn't call him dominat. Not yet, at least.

[twoseven]

Peyton was never considered mentally tough all the way back to college. Thus the "peyton manning face."
Eli's meally-mouthed complacent face is 24-7 though, yuck. Peyton is the superior commercial star and kicks Eli's ass in product marketability, all except for Stridex and Clearasil. Peyton was untouchable on SNL. Peyton has a better haircut. Time to re-think things Bigguns.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Peyton was never considered mentally tough all the way back to college. Thus the "peyton manning face."
Eli's meally-mouthed complacent face is 24-7 though, yuck. Peyton is the superior commercial star and kicks Eli's ass in product marketability, all except for Stridex and Clearasil. Peyton was untouchable on SNL. Peyton has a better haircut. Time to re-think things Bigguns.

The "peyton manning face" is when the choked. Not on commercial tv.

You need to read bill simmons.

[twoseven]

Peyton was never considered mentally tough all the way back to college. Thus the "peyton manning face."
Eli's meally-mouthed complacent face is 24-7 though, yuck. Peyton is the superior commercial star and kicks Eli's ass in product marketability, all except for Stridex and Clearasil. Peyton was untouchable on SNL. Peyton has a better haircut. Time to re-think things Bigguns.

The "peyton manning face" is when the choked. Not on commercial tv.

You need to read bill simmons.
Sarcasm.

[red]

damn this guys looking impressive at the combine

[red]

i watched the db's at the combine yesterday (on tv)

cromartie stole the show. he looked much faster and more crisp then any other guy on the field. and he's bigger then everyone else

he sure looks like the real deal and not just hype

but i think he moved up the board and might be gone by our pick.

talib on the other hand looked very sloppy and almost out of control

[Carolina_Packer]

This draft screams trade down.

But our position screams draft up.

For the 391st time, anyone who claims we are in some kind of great position to trade down ignores past history. Teams typically don't trade up into the last 2-3 spots of the 1st round...because the salary they will be paying their pick will be twice what it would be if they stood pat in the 2nd round.

Sure, we all love trading down...but you need to have a partner willing to trade up, and history suggests we won't find one where our #1 pick lies.

Unless you can find a partner like San Fran was to New England last year. That worked out well...for New England! They used the 4th to get Moss and have the 7th pick this year. The rich got richer.

[b bulldog]

he'll be gone by our pick