No Joke Thread

[Tarlam!]

Anyways, Nutz mentioned crack-dealers on his street corner in another thread in another time, but it still has me thinking.

I am generally against killing people. I know, I know, being the forum Nazi you would not expect this liberal behaviour, but, I am against the death penalty.

I am, however, strongly in favour of inflicting grave bodily harm to certain members of the gene pool. My all time top 5 list of genres who should be confined to "Escape from NY" prison type habitats:

5. Wife beaters. I know they had bad childhoods. I have heard all about how abused kids become abusing adults. It's time to break the vicious cycle.
4. Rape "victims", that are bullshitting to get back at a man.
3. True Rapists. There is no excuse. Ever.
2. Drug Dealers, large and small. I am not counting Hemp as a drug, nor coffee, tobacco, alcohol. But, crack, smack, snow, that kinda stuff.
1. Child Molesters. I could prolly go with the death penalty on this.

I know corrective institutions wanna rehab these people. Guess what? The world is overpopulated as it is. The above 5 categories need to be taken out of society immediately, and never allowed to return. Yes, I mean 1st offenders.

You might all wonder why I have left murderers off of my list? Most murders are committed without pre-meditation. They are usually spur of the moment things. My top 5 are the opposite. These are pre-med crimes.

[Homer Jay]

It's our job as a society to keep the most innocent safe and protect them, not to inflict pain. Child molesters are the absolute bottom of the barrel. The law doesn't allow us to do what should be done.

[Tarlam!]

A government for the people, by the people of the people, right?

Maybe the law lacks teeth. The people could change that. The masses could overturn the academics.

Are you ready to mobilize them?

[Little Whiskey]

of your list i think the drug trafficers should be last in the list. here is my thinking. with them you have a willing "victim" someone has to come and buy from them. if the demand dried up so would the supply. however in the other cases you don't have that. put the drug dealers to 5 and move the rest up, then i'd agree. if you f-with a kid you should be slowly dismembered. i don't care about the excuse. they have been running this dateline special catching internet preditors. they lured this one guy to a house and the cop posing as a 14 year old told him to get naked before he walked in. as he walks in wearing his b-day suit, the reporter walks out of the next room and asks what he is doing?? and after they walk out of the house they get a nice warm welcome from the cops.

[GrnBay007]

Child molesters are the absolute bottom of the barrel. The law doesn't allow us to do what should be done.

True. You may find some satisfaction though in knowing, if they are actually sent to prison, they are at the bottom of the barrel there in every sense of the word. They are ridiculed, set up and beaten up.....unless of course they are in protective custody, in which case they spend 23 hours a day in isolation. Years of that has to drive anyone insane. Problem is too many of them do not get sent to prison and are allowed to remain on the streets to reoffend.

[Tarlam!]

of your list i think the drug trafficers should be last in the list. here is my thinking. with them you have a willing "victim" someone has to come and buy from them. if the demand dried up so would the supply

Here's why I disagree. 90% of the drug dealers sell to maintain their habits to our kids.

They are molesting our children, only, it's non-sexual. One of your Presidents declared War on drugs. Well, I say, shoot the enemy.

I know many disagree with my logic. You are good people and want to believe in the good side of humans. But society has been held hostage too long. It's time we cleaned up. Find an island, parachutre in the criminals. God will decide if they live or die. Just take them out of society. We do not need to kill them.

[GrnBay007]

Here's why I disagree. 90% of the drug dealers sell to maintain their habits to our kids.



This is where it's good to see the DARE program in the schools and being introduced at a very young age. For whatever reason many parents don't talk to their children about drugs, whether it's that they feel too uncomfortable, maybe they feel they are not knowledgable enough on the subject or maybe just have that "it won't happen to my kid" attitude. If the DARE program keeps one or two kids from getting involved it's worth it.

I think they should go a step further and work on educating the parents more on what signs to look for that their kids are using/experimenting with drugs. I feel extremely bad for young kids that experiment with drugs and before anyone notices they are in too far. It's not like it used to be where kids would just smoke a little pot every now and then. Crack cocaine and meth are just way to accessible in our society.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Murdering another human being is the worst crime in civilized society. Any of you that are of the Biblical faith should be answering that automatically. Even as an agnostic I hold that as the highest crime.

tyler

[Charles Woodson]

Murdering another human being is the worst crime in civilized society. Any of you that are of the Biblical faith should be answering that automatically. Even as an agnostic I hold that as the highest crime.

tyler


but that all depends on the circumstance. yes murder is bad, but it is neccesary in self defense and such

[jack's smirking revenge]

Murdering another human being is the worst crime in civilized society. Any of you that are of the Biblical faith should be answering that automatically. Even as an agnostic I hold that as the highest crime.

tyler


but that all depends on the circumstance. yes murder is bad, but it is neccesary in self defense and such

I don't want to turn this into a Biblical discussion, but murder is never right--even in self-defense. Personally, like everyone else, I would fight for my own life if it came down to having to defend my own life; I'm just suggesting that doesn't make it acceptable. What other situations would warrant murder (ie. what do you mean by "and such")?

tyler

[Deputy Nutz]

So a naked woman walks into a bar holding a poodle under one arm and a salami under the other. She walks up to the bartender, and the bartender says, "I guess you won't be needing a drink,.....


Opps, this is the non joke thread sorry.


I think if anyone lays a hand inappropriately on a child they should be dismembered and tortured, then as slowly as possible, put to death. Sick fuckers are the lowest forms of life.

If you don't believe me go to www.pervertedjustice.com and see for yourself. This is a website set up by vigilantes in the cyberworld to catch child predators.

[MadtownPacker]

Sorry but when criminals even think you are garbage you are truly the worst.

Child molesters without a doubt. At least murder ends there, a child that was molested lives with it forever and liekly goes on to do the same to others.

Death is a light punishment. IMO they should be fed to other sexual predators every day for the rest of their life.

[Mazzin]

Mad I agree with you, I couldn't even imagen how a child could continue on with their life after something like that. They would no doubt be permanently messed up. I do think that child molesters should have what they did tattooed on them, and than sent to the big house. From what I hear everyone will beat their ass, and make them their B****. I would much rather bubba and his boys do that to him, to make him see what its like and beat him half sensless, and have the gaurds not care either. No one in there has ANY remorse for those type of people, and neither do I that is the worst sin you could EVER commit. :mad:

[jack's smirking revenge]

Essentially, punishment should fit the crime. Child molesters (and sexual predators) are definitely horrible creatures, but I can't agree with the murder of them. There's got to be something useful they can do for society--like create massive hamster cages where they get to run in a wheel all day long to power their prison. By day, they can run. By night, as Mazzin suggested, they can be somebody's b**** and feel what its like to be molested.

Sadly, they might end up enjoying it....

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

Essentially, punishment should fit the crime. Child molesters (and sexual predators) are definitely horrible creatures, but I can't agree with the murder of them. There's got to be something useful they can do for society--like create massive hamster cages where they get to run in a wheel all day long to power their prison. By day, they can run. By night, as Mazzin suggested, they can be somebody's b**** and feel what its like to be molested.

Sadly, they might end up enjoying it....

tyler
Your right, the punishment should fit the crime. They killed someones soul, let them pay the worse way possible.

I agree that they might end up enjoying it so once that happens they shold be used for human expiements.

[Tarlam!]

I would kill anybody that touched my child. By default, I would kill anybody that touched another's child.

I have family members that ought to be killed. Not sure if I would treat their murderer the same way I would treat a child molester, Tyler.

In fact, I know what is worse to me.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I would kill anybody that touched my child. By default, I would kill anybody that touched another's child.

I have family members that ought to be killed. Not sure if I would treat their murderer the same way I would treat a child molester, Tyler.

In fact, I know what is worse to me.

That's cool. Just posing a philosophical question. My girlfriend has three beautiful and special children (and I am with them every day), so I can agree that child molestation is deplorable. In ranking severity of crimes, I just find it interesting that people put the abuse of a child above the murder of another human being. True, the molestation affects a child for the rest of his/her life; the murder of another person affects scores of people--friends, family members, co-workers, etc.--and reduces our race to the basest of animal menality where the taking of life is just part of natural selection.

Not minimizing child molestation in any way. I just find the discussion very interesting. I am in the minority in the poll (by choosing other) for once and I feel a bit like an outsider. :D

tyler

[pacfan]

I would kill anybody that touched my child. By default, I would kill anybody that touched another's child.

I have family members that ought to be killed. Not sure if I would treat their murderer the same way I would treat a child molester, Tyler.

In fact, I know what is worse to me.

That's cool. Just posing a philosophical question. My girlfriend has three beautiful and special children (and I am with them every day), so I can agree that child molestation is deplorable. In ranking severity of crimes, I just find it interesting that people put the abuse of a child above the murder of another human being. True, the molestation affects a child for the rest of his/her life; the murder of another person affects scores of people--friends, family members, co-workers, etc.--and reduces our race to the basest of animal menality where the taking of life is just part of natural selection.

Not minimizing child molestation in any way. I just find the discussion very interesting. I am in the minority in the poll (by choosing other) for once and I feel a bit like an outsider. :D

tyler

#1.)I would rank child molestation above murder. Children are trusting and, for the most part, defensless. They look to adults for guidance, love, and nurturing. When somebody removes that trust for their own sick end, I would be compelled to committ #2.

#2.) Murder is next, the loss of companionship of a friend or relative due to senseless violence (any violence actually) is as hard. The loss is nearly inconceivable unless you have lost somebody in that fashion. Religion provides guidelines, but passion can overide almost anything.

I could see #1 happening and somebody committing #2 because of it.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I would kill anybody that touched my child. By default, I would kill anybody that touched another's child.

I have family members that ought to be killed. Not sure if I would treat their murderer the same way I would treat a child molester, Tyler.

In fact, I know what is worse to me.

That's cool. Just posing a philosophical question. My girlfriend has three beautiful and special children (and I am with them every day), so I can agree that child molestation is deplorable. In ranking severity of crimes, I just find it interesting that people put the abuse of a child above the murder of another human being. True, the molestation affects a child for the rest of his/her life; the murder of another person affects scores of people--friends, family members, co-workers, etc.--and reduces our race to the basest of animal menality where the taking of life is just part of natural selection.

Not minimizing child molestation in any way. I just find the discussion very interesting. I am in the minority in the poll (by choosing other) for once and I feel a bit like an outsider. :D

tyler

#1.)I would rank child molestation above murder. Children are trusting and, for the most part, defensless. They look to adults for guidance, love, and nurturing. When somebody removes that trust for their own sick end, I would be compelled to committ #2.

#2.) Murder is next, the loss of companionship of a friend or relative due to senseless violence (any violence actually) is as hard. The loss is nearly inconceivable unless you have lost somebody in that fashion. Religion provides guidelines, but passion can overide almost anything.

I could see #1 happening and somebody committing #2 because of it.

I do find it interesting that you've framed religion as "guidelines". I studied theology in college, so that's a bit of a side passion. In most religions, murder is a sin, something that cannot be attoned for. Thus, "thou shalt not kill" is not a guideline; its a rule.

Pederasty and pedophilia and various other forms of child molestation have existed throughout the ages and civilizations--throughout medieval Japan and China and Europe, classical Greek and Roman civilizations, and even in the Catholic Church. That doesn't make it right or any less repulsive. I'm just amazed that it was ever remotely acceptable.

tyler

[Little Whiskey]

I could see #1 happening and somebody committing #2 because of it.


do you need some toliet paper??? I hate when i'm going #1 and all of a sudden you have an immedate urge for #2. :mrgreen:


hell this thread has been serious for too long.

[The Leaper]

I'm not sure I could possibly find a way to classify molestation or murder where one is clearly "worse" than the other. Both are equally heinous IMO.

That said, I feel that someone who molests a child is likely a greater danger to society than someone who committed a murder. The vast majority of murders are spontaneous and based on a combination of several major conditions that are really not likely to reappear in their lives again. Think OJ Simpson...it is highly unlikely he is going to commit murder again. You could bump into him at a restaurant and not fear for your life in the least.

Child molestors are entirely different. Thousands of them have been put through extensive "rehabiliation"...and once released back into society, almost all of them revert back to their life as a predator. The psychological evidence is pretty substantial that there is little hope for reforming most of these people. Most murderers can openly recognize that what they did was wrong. For some reason, child molestors can always find a way to justify their actions in their own mind...which is what makes it so hard to reform them.

With that in mind...it makes more sense to apply the death penalty, or at least a life sentence without parole, to child molestors...simply because they are less likely to re-enter society as a reformed, rehabilitated citizen.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm not pro-molestation, but I think everyone needs to realize that must child molesters were victims themselves of molestation. Rarely do things happen in a vacuum.

That is why child molestation is such a terrible crime, it perpetuates itself.

However, I can't see killing a child molester. Yes, it makes me sick to think of it, but it also makes me sick to think that they were molested themselves.

Child molesters, serial killer, rapists or any other deviant is just that. A deviant. They are not really in control of their behavior. They are a deviation from the norm. But, that deviation is part of the norm...just as being gay goes against the norm.

To quote Love & Rockets, "when you go against nature, that is a part of nature too."

[MJZiggy]

It's simple. Just take the child molester and remove his balls, hands, tongue and a couple of toes for extra insurance and voila! you don't have to kill him so there's no death penalty issue, he can't reoffend and if you conveniently forget the anesthetic while removing these offensive pieces, then he's summarily punished as well.

[Tarlam!]

Leaper, I really liked your post.

Tyler, I guess some of the thoelogy classes left an impression.

I believe your legal system has different degrees of Murder, plus Manslaughter. I am willing to put psychopaths above drug dealers, cause they, too, are preditors. Murder one people.

But, if someone touches one of my babies, and I know who, believe me, I will plot and implement a death for that individual that would have historic value.

Does that make me as vile as him?

[MJZiggy]

That makes you a parent.

[Mazzin]

Agreed....a good one at that. Tarlam, I don't have any kids but I have 2 neices and 1 nephew, and I think the WORLD of them.

[jack's smirking revenge]

That makes you a parent.

Well, considering I almost plotted something similar to eradicate the man who had an affair with my exwife (which led to my divorce), I guess I would concur. If I had children, I would probably do something similar.

tyler

[Mazzin]

Jack sorry to hear about that buddy, I'm young and in love, so of course naturally I dont think my boyfriend can do no wrong, but I do keep a keen eye on him, although he is probably the nicest most sincere guy I have ever met, and would do anything in the world for me.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Jack sorry to hear about that buddy, I'm young and in love, so of course naturally I dont think my boyfriend can do no wrong, but I do keep a keen eye on him, although he is probably the nicest most sincere guy I have ever met, and would do anything in the world for me.

Thanks Mazzin. I was once young and in love. All I can say is that times change and people change with them. Everyone thought I had the perfect marriage until "he" turned up, a total surprise to everyone, and life spiraled out of control. A story for another day. All I can suggest is keep your eye on him. I won't suggest anything else; I'd start using my jadespeak.

:wink:

tyler

[pacfan]

I could see #1 happening and somebody committing #2 because of it.


do you need some toliet paper??? I hate when i'm going #1 and all of a sudden you have an immedate urge for #2. :mrgreen:


hell this thread has been serious for too long.

I make an excellent straight man..... :cool:

[Charles Woodson]

Murdering another human being is the worst crime in civilized society. Any of you that are of the Biblical faith should be answering that automatically. Even as an agnostic I hold that as the highest crime.

tyler


but that all depends on the circumstance. yes murder is bad, but it is neccesary in self defense and such

I don't want to turn this into a Biblical discussion, but murder is never right--even in self-defense. Personally, like everyone else, I would fight for my own life if it came down to having to defend my own life; I'm just suggesting that doesn't make it acceptable. What other situations would warrant murder (ie. what do you mean by "and such")?

tyler


Really quick, when i meant and such, i meant war and things of that sort

----------

According to the NIV version of Exodus 20:13

13 "You shall not murder.

---------
I agree with you that murder is not right.

But if you look up the deffention of murder, you find that:


"The unlawful killing of one human by another"

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=murder

Its the unlawful killing. I belive that if in self defensie, like a situation that your life was being threatened, i think that you should use any other options but if nothing else works i think that it is not wrong.

This is just how i see it.

[The Leaper]

Legally, murder typically has the connotation of intent. Killing another person unintentionally is not murder, but manslaughter. In some societies, self-defense is considered manslaughter, and not murder...because you did not truly intend to kill anyone, but were protecting your own right to survive against someone else who is trying to infringe on that right.

[Deputy Nutz]

Killing is ok. Sometimes murder is ok. It only matters what you preception is. People are just other living things unless you have decided to attach yourself to others. I have attached myself to my family and friends, their deaths would make me really upset, but hell I have worked with people one day and the next day, their gone, oh well, didn't care about them to begin with.

I have gone to school one day to have all my classmates alive, and the next day some were dead, I wasn't friends with them, they had very little impact on my life, I wasn't going to get all teary eyed over it, I thought that was a bit disrespectful, especially when others that treated these kids like dirt when they were alive, started balling their eyes out and giving statements to the press about how wonderful this young men were. What bullshit.

So killing some scum bag for molesting innocent children is really no big deal, hell I think we should line those fuckers up and take aim. Call it whatever the fuck you want, I call it taking care of the trash, the pieces of shit that make me fear for my children's safety and the safety of other children.

The sad thing is that well over 50% of all sexual assaults on children are commited by people your child knows. So talking about killing some dirt bag for touching children, the fact is your probably talking about a relative, boyfriend, friends, teacher, or a neighbor. They are not nameless faces.

[Mazzin]

Nutz couldn't agree more.

[Packers4Ever]

It's simple. Just take the child molester and remove his balls, hands, tongue and a couple of toes for extra insurance and voila! you don't have to kill him so there's no death penalty issue, he can't reoffend and if you conveniently forget the anesthetic while removing these offensive pieces, then he's summarily punished as well.


MJZ, if someone hadn't come up with this solution soon I'd have had to do

it myself. I've long since thought all it would take is a (wooden) cutting

board and a very sharp knife. Problem solved, no one taking up

space in prison or rehab or ever hurting a child again. Forget

anesthetic ?? Wellllllllll.......maybe.

[MJZiggy]

It's simple. Just take the child molester and remove his balls, hands, tongue and a couple of toes for extra insurance and voila! you don't have to kill him so there's no death penalty issue, he can't reoffend and if you conveniently forget the anesthetic while removing these offensive pieces, then he's summarily punished as well.


MJZ, if someone hadn't come up with this solution soon I'd have had to do

it myself. I've long since thought all it would take is a (wooden) cutting

board and a very sharp knife. Problem solved, no one taking up

space in prison or rehab or ever hurting a child again. Forget

anesthetic ?? Wellllllllll.......maybe.

I apologize, after rereading the solution I realize that I had forgotten that for sanitary reasons, the genital area must be waxed before the balls are removed and to make the surgical process easier on the doctors (yeah, right) the scrotum should be duly compressed. By the parents of the victim.

[the_idle_threat]

My first instinct was to answer wife abuser, and I voted accordingly. Of the three on the list that I think are the worst---wife abuse, molestation and rape---I believe ALL are heinous, but wife abuse is unique in that a pattern of abuse can go on continuously and for so long. An abusive relationship can last for decades ... where all the while the abused spouse lives in very real terror of imminent abuse. Certainly a strong argument can (and should) be made that molestation is the worst, but I believe there are enough people beating that drum. I'm certainly not saying the other crimes are okay in any way, but I think more attention should be paid to spousal abuse.

Regarding murder and self defense, if a killing is determined to be self-defense under the law, it is not murder, and is not illegal.

[Tarlam!]

Idle, interesting thoughts and it is why it was on the list. I, howver, feel, that a child has nowhere to turn, yet a spouse has had education and can indeed find support.

Still, it is a fine line. Thanks for your contribution!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I have to agree with Jack on this one. Murder is far worse than child molestation, if both were to be ranked.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Understandably, child molestation is wrong and should never be committed, and victims of such crime must live with everlasting scars, but as robots of the world, robots capable of reasoning, we can indeed cure victims of molestation through psychological therapy, much as we can cure victims of rape in a similar way.

Can we bring back life? Yes, through cloning and stuff like that, but only the Almighty can bring back an original life.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not an advocates of child molestation. I just believe that life is precious and we should never kill. I am against the death penalty, but would not feel any sympathy toward a justly convicted cold blood murderer walking the green mile.

As a side note, unjust torture is wrong. That's why the US have to shut down the Guantanamo bay prison. Support Amnesty International.

[GrnBay007]

Idle, interesting thoughts and it is why it was on the list. I, howver, feel, that a child has nowhere to turn, yet a spouse has had education and can indeed find support.

Still, it is a fine line. Thanks for your contribution!

I voted for child molestation. Idle threat does bring up some good points concerning spouse abuse. I just wanted to respond to Tarlam's post by saying generally speaking education goes out the window in cases of spousal abuse. For any of us that have never experience spouse abuse the answers seem very clear cut on what the victim should do. It's far from clear cut for the person experiencing the cycle of violence. They may know where to go to find support but often times the fear is so great they won't ask for help, not to mention most have very little confidence and their self esteem has been shredded. I've worked with victims of domestic violence and it's very difficult to understand their thought process.

I do agree though that when an adult is the victim they generally know where to turn and that there is help available...... a child may not even be aware of that.

[the_idle_threat]

In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, when a child comes forward with a claim of abuse, he/ receives a presumption of innocence that leads to quick investigation and assistance.

An abused spouse will often face disbelief from family members that will reinforce her humiliation and feeling of worthlessness, which can prolong the pattern of abuse. An abused spouse is effectivley a slave of her husband.

[GrnBay007]

An abused spouse will often face disbelief from family members that will reinforce her humiliation and feeling of worthlessness, which can prolong the pattern of abuse.

May be true in some cases, but most often family members are aware/suspicious long before the victim admits to the problems....if ever. They either don't want to get involved in a "family matter" or do ask questions and are met with the "I had an accident" answer to explain injuries.



An abused spouse is effectivley a slave of her husband.

Absolutely!

[the_idle_threat]

Yes, the disbelief is often willful.

People often refuse to believe what they simply do not want to believe.