Goodell has character issues of his own.

[PackerBlues]

Ran across this story today, which then led me to look into the story of Pacman Jones and his involvement in the shooting of Tommy Urbanski. I have to admit, that I never really checked into the story at all before today, and I am disgusted by the fact that Jones is even allowed to walk the streets. While it is nice that Goodell suspended Jones for the entire 2007 season, I have to question Goodell's character in regards to what he told the Urbanski family. It sounds to me, as if he told these poor people exactly what they wanted to hear to keep them quiet until the story "blew over".


http://dwil.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/long-day-comin-more-pressure-for-goodell-belichick-pioli-speak-out-on-spygate-walsh-kidd-to-dallas-is-taking-shape-again/

Goodell under more pressure

Pennsylvania senator, Arlen Specter, says NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s explanation for his actions regarding Spygate are not believable. Goodell has acted quickly to impugn the character of some NFL players - Terry, “Tank” Johnson, Adam “Pacman” Jones, and Michael Vick to name a few - while allowing others to slink away into the shadows - Jared Allen, Jonathan Babineaux, and Patrick Kerney, to name a few.

Goodell’s inconsistent behavior has slipped by the national sports media members unnoticed. However, Larry McShane of the New York Daily News has authored an article that acts as the first serious public indictment of the NFL Commissioner. In it McShane recounts the story of Las Vegas strip club bouncer, Tommy Urbanski’s post-shooting relationship with Goodell as told through Urbanski’s wife, Kathy.

According to Kathy Urbanski Goodell offered to aid her husband in his recovery in any way possible. But when push came to shove, Goodell turned his back on the Urbanskis:

“Roger Goodell told me, ‘You don’t have to call us. We’ll get in touch with you,’” Kathy Urbanski recalled angrily. “Now I realize he meant, ‘Don’t call us, we’ll call you.’”

McShane reveals that renovations to the Urbanski home to accommodate the crippled former bouncer will cost millions of dollars - and the Urbanskis are nearly broke:

The Urbanskis claim Goodell made his offers to help them in two phone calls last year. But when they called the NFL back, they say they were ignored.

Goodell remember differently:Goodell has said the NFL was willing to participate in a fund-raiser to aid Tommy Urbanski - but things changed once the couple sued the NFL.

“I’m sorry about the tragedy the family is going through, but I don’t feel we have any responsibility,” Goodell said before the Super Bowl. Goodell said that Kathy Urbanski agreed with him during their chat.

Whether the Urbanskis acted in poor faith and sued the NFL was not answered. However Kathy Urbanski has nothing but unkind words for Goodell as she refutes his claims:

“This is a David-and-Goliath situation, with working people against a very greedy and evil corporation called the NFL,” she said.

Goodell has been charged by the 30 NFL team owners to publicly represent them and their interests. The newly-minted commissioner came out of the box swinging. He was lauded in every corner of the press for his heavy hand in punishing those players who were involved in wrong-doing.

However, the reality of Goodell is that he has been selective in choosing which players to punish, a fact that has gone unnoticed by the NFL and sports press. Now the tide has, fairly quickly, begun to swing in the other direction. And perhaps we will soon get to see if the press turns on Goodell and rebukes the Urbanskis.

But for now Kathy Urbanski’s statements act as a serious indictment of Goodell - and the owners.



http://www.tommyurbanskifund.com/

Shattered Hopes and Dreams

The life of native Long Island New Yorker Tommy Urbanski was forever tragically altered when he was shot and paralyzed on the morning of February 19th. Tommy, a morning shift manager at the Minxx nightclub in Las Vegas, was shot multiple times outside the main entrance of the club just as he was about to begin his early AM shift. Tommy was rushed to University Medical Center's trauma unit in critical condition with multiple gunshot wounds to his chest, left hand and arm. The bullet to his chest caused significant internal injuries before ultimately lodging in and severing his spinal cord, leaving Tommy paralyzed from the waist down and clinging for life on a ventilator.

Eyewitnesses allege the shooter was a patron of the Minxx club that evening, seen entering the club and partying side-by-side with NFL Tennessee Titans football star Adam 'Packman' Jones. Club video surveillance also corroborates eyewitness accounts. The shooting occurred after Jones was restrained and ejected by club security for repeatedly and viciously assaulting a woman inside the club. Just prior to being ejected from the club, along with the rest of Jones's entourage, eyewitnesses allege that Jones made direct death threats to club security personnel who had restrained him, stating they would be dead before the night was over. Within minutes of Jones's death threat, the bouncer who had restrained Jones, along with Tommy and another female patron, were shot multiple times just outside the clubs front entrance; Tommy sustaining the most serious injuries. The shooter is currently still at large. In spite of numerous eyewitness accounts to the contrary, Jones claims to have no knowledge of the shooters identity or his whereabouts. Jones is also scheduled to appear in a Georgia court to answer subpoenas for felony and misdemeanor obstruction of justice charges for yet another unrelated incident that occurred in February 2006.

A real estate agent by day, Tommy had only recently landed a part-time management position at the Minxx nightclub to help pay for his wife's law school education, during the slower winter real estate season. By all accounts Tommy and his wife Kathy were living the American dream up until the day of the shooting. Tommy and Kathy pulled up stakes and moved out West to Las Vegas in 1998, with nothing more than a thousands dollars in their pockets, a beat up clunker of a car and their dream for a better life together. Shortly after arriving in Vegas Kathy landed a job as a schoolteacher, and Tommy as a doorman at an upscale nightclub. They worked hard as a family, purchasing their first home only several years after arriving in Vegas. A couple of years later Tommy and Kathy sold their first home after the Vegas housing boom, which lead way to the purchase of their second dream home. Tommy and Kathy's dream life however has since been shattered since the morning of the shooting. The only dream they share now is for Tommy to live and to someday walk again through some modern medical miracle. All they have now is hope. The challenges Tommy and Kathy face together are numerous and great, least not the devastating financial impact on Tommy and Kathy looking ahead. Friends and family have established the 'Tommy Urbanski Fund' to assist Tommy and Kathy rebuild their shattered life.

Please mail donations to the address below; personal check, bank check and money orders accepted. Please make your donation payable to the 'Tommy Urbanski Fund'. Your generosity is greatly appreciated.

[MJZiggy]

Oddly enough, I'm with Goodell on this one. If a Xerox employee goes out after work and shoots someone, is Xerox responsible? If the Urbanski's want reparations they should be suing Jones, not the NFL.

[The Leaper]

What? You actually think a strip club manager/bouncer has any credibility?

Renovations to their home cost SEVERAL MILLION?? Thousands of Americans are paralyzed from the waist down...and I don't see them needing millions of dollars in home renovations to survive.

How does this make Goodell a bad guy? Was he the one getting tossed out of a strip club at 3am and yelling out death threats? Was he the one who had his posse open fire?

Sure, the situation is a regretable one...but it isn't the fault of either the NFL or Goodell.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What? You actually think a strip club manager/bouncer has any credibility?

Renovations to their home cost SEVERAL MILLION?? Thousands of Americans are paralyzed from the waist down...and I don't see them needing millions of dollars in home renovations to survive.

How does this make Goodell a bad guy? Was he the one getting tossed out of a strip club at 3am and yelling out death threats? Was he the one who had his posse open fire?

Sure, the situation is a regretable one...but it isn't the fault of either the NFL or Goodell.

I'm not saying i agree with Urbanski's side, but did you read the story? He is a real estate agent working PT at the club to earn money for his wife's education.

Is the business legal? Yes. Does that make him less credible for working in that industry? No.

[PackerBlues]

Oddly enough, I'm with Goodell on this one. If a Xerox employee goes out after work and shoots someone, is Xerox responsible? If the Urbanski's want reparations they should be suing Jones, not the NFL.


I understand what your are sayin Zig, but I think that "Pacman" had enough legal problems before the shooting, that the league may have been obligated to "put him in check". Also, the Urbanski's did in fact sue Pacman, but also named the NFL and the Tennessee Titans in the lawsuit............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacman_Jones

On June 25, 2007, Tommy Urbanski and his wike Kathy sued Jones in civil court, claiming that Jones had bitten his left ankle, and was responsible for the shooting.[32]. The lawsuit also named the Tennessee Titans franchise and the NFL as defendants, on the grounds that Jones's employers knew of his erratic behavior prior to the Minxx incident but did not suspend him until afterwards. Had the Titans suspended Jones prior to the NBA All-Star game, the suit argues, he would not have been invited to the Las Vegas events, and the incident would not have taken place.

On July 13, 2005 Jones was arrested on charges of assault and felony vandalism stemming from a nightclub altercation.

On September 5, 2005 Jones was a guest at the annual Nashville Sports Council Kickoff Luncheon. After a loud verbal tantrum when he was told to wait in line for his vehicle later that evening, Jones was counseled by the police. He also refused to pay for any valet services used that evening, because he didn't have money at the time.

On October 2005, in a petition filed by the State of West Virginia, it was alleged that Jones had not made regular and sufficient contact with his probation officer and that he did not report his July arrest in Nashville in a timely fashion. The court ordered the probation extended for a period of 90 days, although the state requested it to be extended one year.

On August 25, 2006, Jones was arrested in Murfreesboro, Tennessee for disorderly conduct and public intoxication after claiming that a woman stole his wallet. She claimed that she did not steal anything and Jones spat on her. Police officers said they ordered Jones to leave several times, but he refused, continuing to shout profanities at the woman. A judge granted him six months probation on the conditions that he stays out of further trouble and away from the nightclub.

On October 26, 2006. Jones was cited for misdemeanor assault for allegedly spitting in the face of a female student from Tennessee State University during a private party at Club Mystic, a Nashville nightclub. He was suspended by the Titans for one game and was scheduled to be booked on the charge on November 17, 2006.

Jones also is set to appear in a Fayetteville, Georgia court in 2007 for his February 2006 incident on subpoenas for felony and misdemeanor obstruction of justice charges for an incident outside a home. The charges of marijuana possession in the same state were dismissed


Ok, so after all of this, I think anyone can see that this shit bag, Pacman Jones, has quite a history........as, at the very least, not someone that you would want to be associated with. Because after all of the above mentioned, we have his involvement in the nightclub shooting.........here is another story on that night from the same wikpedia link above:

On the morning of February 19, 2007 during the 2007 NBA All-Star Game weekend in Las Vegas, Jones is alleged to have been involved in an altercation with an exotic dancer at a local strip club. Jones and American rap artist Nelly patronized the club on the evening in question. Nelly began to shower the stage with hundreds of one-dollar bills, with fellow bad boy known only as Richard Rich, an act known as "making it rain." Jones then joined Nelly by throwing his own money for "visual effect." Club promoter Chris Mitchell then directed his dancers to collect the money. According to the club's co-owner, Jones became enraged when one of the dancers began taking the money without his permission. He allegedly grabbed her by her hair and slammed her head on the stage. A security guard intervened and scuffled with members of Jones' entourage of half a dozen people. Jones then allegedly threatened the guard's life.[24] During this time Mitchell and a male associate left the club with a garbage bag filled with $81,020 of Jones' money (holy shit man......thats a lot of cake to be runnin around with) and two Breitling watches, which police later recovered.[25]

After club patrons exited following the original confrontation, the club owner says a person in Jones' entourage returned with a gun and fired into a crowd, hitting three people, including the security guard involved in the earlier skirmish. The guard was shot twice, and one of the people hit, former professional wrestler Tommy Urbanski, was paralyzed from the waist down. Jones maintains that he did not know the shooter, although the club's owner insists that Jones did. On March 26, 2007 the Las Vegas Police recommended to the city's district attorney that Jones be charged with one count of felony coercion and also a misdemeanor count of battery and a misdemeanor count of threat to life.

[The Leaper]

I'm not saying i agree with Urbanski's side, but did you read the story? He is a real estate agent working PT at the club to earn money for his wife's education.

Is the business legal? Yes. Does that make him less credible for working in that industry? No.

Yeah...and lots of strippers are there to earn their way through college to be a lawyer.

If they were living in their "dream house", then why did he have to work part time to earn money for education?

Sorry Ty...people who are bouncers/managers at strip clubs usually are a little shady. You can sit here and try to defend him all you want, but their actions speak louder than words...and racking up several million in home renovations and trying to get someone else to pay for it sounds shady to me.

[MJZiggy]

I'll agree that the league was obligated to put him in check, if we also would agree that any other corporation is legally responsible to put their employees in check if they've had a history of misconduct and then something happens at the industry convention. If Xerox is liable, so it the NFL. Otherwise, I think it's the responsibility of the individual. Besides, any other company would probably have just fired the employee rather than try to "put him in check." I think Jones does have responsibility here even if he didn't pull the trigger, but the circumstances that put him in Vegas are immaterial. Not like the NFL chose the strip club for him or anything.

[PackerBlues]

Again, I understand that point of view, but I also understand why the Urbanski's would name the NFL and the Titans in the lawsuit. Apparently, Pacman still has not learned his lesson, this was a little further down the page on the Wikpedia link:


On January 15, 2008, Jones was accused of hitting a woman in a strip clup in Atlanta, Georgia on the morning of January 3, 2008. The woman, Wanda S. Jackson, was seeking an arrest warrant. However, on January 16, Jackson withdrew the warrant.


Considering Jones' obvious character issues, do you think he will ever be re-instated? Personally, I would prefer to see Goodell issue a statement banning Jones from EVER returning to the NFL.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm not saying i agree with Urbanski's side, but did you read the story? He is a real estate agent working PT at the club to earn money for his wife's education.

Is the business legal? Yes. Does that make him less credible for working in that industry? No.

Yeah...and lots of strippers are there to earn their way through college to be a lawyer.

If they were living in their "dream house", then why did he have to work part time to earn money for education?

Sorry Ty...people who are bouncers/managers at strip clubs usually are a little shady. You can sit here and try to defend him all you want, but their actions speak louder than words...and racking up several million in home renovations and trying to get someone else to pay for it sounds shady to me.

"Dream house" is subjective. For some it is a mansion, for others who are poor it is simply being able to afford a house.

Sorry, Leaper, but you can't lump everyone together. From the story and account it sure does appear he was a hard worker. His wife was a school teacher and then was becoming a lawyer..hardly seems shady.

He was a real estate agent...very slow in the winter, not to mention a CRIPPLED VEGAS MARKET. So, he picked up a PT job. One that probably paid better then working at the subway. One that started at 5 in the MORNING. Yep, he sure seems shady..getting up to work that early.

Lastly, he wasn't working at a dump, he is in Vegas working at an upscale club. Before you endite him, are you prepared to endite all the patrons. Guess according to you quite a bit of america is shady as there are no shortage of men and women attending the spearmint rhino, minxx, etc. in vegas. Don't be so fucking provincial.

And, you need to actually READ or try reading again. they haven't racked up any bills. That was what Mcshane said it would cost.

[Patler]

"Dream house" is subjective. For some it is a mansion, for others who are poor it is simply being able to afford a house.

Sorry, Leaper, but you can't lump everyone together. From the story and account it sure does appear he was a hard worker. His wife was a school teacher and then was becoming a lawyer..hardly seems shady.

He was a real estate agent...very slow in the winter, not to mention a CRIPPLED VEGAS MARKET. So, he picked up a PT job. One that probably paid better then working at the subway. One that started at 5 in the MORNING. Yep, he sure seems shady..getting up to work that early.

Lastly, he wasn't working at a dump, he is in Vegas working at an upscale club. Before you endite him, are you prepared to endite all the patrons. Guess according to you quite a bit of america is shady as there are no shortage of men and women attending the spearmint rhino, minxx, etc. in vegas. Don't be so fucking provincial.

And, you need to actually READ or try reading again. they haven't racked up any bills. That was what Mcshane said it would cost.

From a November article:


No one has been charged in the Feb. 19 shooting at the Minxx Gentlemen's Club. Police haven't identified a suspect in the shooting that left her husband, Tommy, paralyzed and living in a hotel while their home is renovated to be wheelchair accessible.

I have known several people who have had to make homes wheelchair accessible. Not one moved into a hotel while it was being done. For anyone connected with it to suggest several million dollars in remodeling costs is ridiculous, unless the house was worth tens of millions of dollars to begin with.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

"Dream house" is subjective. For some it is a mansion, for others who are poor it is simply being able to afford a house.

Sorry, Leaper, but you can't lump everyone together. From the story and account it sure does appear he was a hard worker. His wife was a school teacher and then was becoming a lawyer..hardly seems shady.

He was a real estate agent...very slow in the winter, not to mention a CRIPPLED VEGAS MARKET. So, he picked up a PT job. One that probably paid better then working at the subway. One that started at 5 in the MORNING. Yep, he sure seems shady..getting up to work that early.

Lastly, he wasn't working at a dump, he is in Vegas working at an upscale club. Before you endite him, are you prepared to endite all the patrons. Guess according to you quite a bit of america is shady as there are no shortage of men and women attending the spearmint rhino, minxx, etc. in vegas. Don't be so fucking provincial.

And, you need to actually READ or try reading again. they haven't racked up any bills. That was what Mcshane said it would cost.

From a November article:


No one has been charged in the Feb. 19 shooting at the Minxx Gentlemen's Club. Police haven't identified a suspect in the shooting that left her husband, Tommy, paralyzed and living in a hotel while their home is renovated to be wheelchair accessible.

I have known several people who have had to make homes wheelchair accessible. Not one moved into a hotel while it was being done. For anyone connected with it to suggest several million dollars in remodeling costs is ridiculous, unless the house was worth tens of millions of dollars to begin with.

FOR THE LAST TIME...NO ONE IS QUOTED AS SAYING IT WILL COST MILLIONS. That was the reporter. He didn't quote anyone.

"Kathy Urbanski spoke from the Nevada hotel where she and Tommy live as renovations continue to make their Las Vegas home wheelchair-accessible - one of the many expensive projects the couple face.

The total tab for the 44-year-old former Commack, L.I., resident's rehab is expected to cost millions of dollars."

It is amazing how smart people can read and not comprehend. There are TWO paragraphs. The millions of dollars refers directly to "rehab" not renovations.

Rehab includes all his medical bills, his home, the 70k van he will need, the special wheelchair to accomodate a six six four hundred pound man, etc.

[Patler]

The millions of dollars refers directly to "rehab" not renovations.
.

It does???:


McShane reveals that renovations to the Urbanski home to accommodate the crippled former bouncer will cost millions of dollars -

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The millions of dollars refers directly to "rehab" not renovations.
.

It does???:


McShane reveals that renovations to the Urbanski home to accommodate the crippled former bouncer will cost millions of dollars -

Patler, I expected a little better from you.

The link provided originally is from a blog. The author of the blog doesn't even quote from the article. He is regurgitating...and that is a nice term.

I would have expected you to 1) check the link and read or 2) understand what WORDPRESS means.

I gave you the exact quote. But, i guess that wasn't enough.

Here is the link to the article. There is no dispute on which is correct.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/02/17/2008-02-17_wife_in_pacman_jones_shooting_says_roger.html

Game, Set, Match.

[The Leaper]

Ty, you are starting to sound like Belichick.

Again...LIVING IN A HOTEL??? What renovations require you to move into a hotel for weeks at a time? I know people who are paralyzed from accidents...I don't recall any of them explaining how they had to stay in a hotel for weeks at a time while their home was renovated.

What happened to the guy is unfortunate...but if you work as a bouncer at a strip club, you have to expect that something bad could happen. It isn't like he was shot down while taking the collection as a church usher. I don't care how "upscale" a strip club is...you have guys like Pacman frequenting all the time.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, you are starting to sound like Belichick.

Again...LIVING IN A HOTEL??? What renovations require you to move into a hotel for weeks at a time? I know people who are paralyzed from accidents...I don't recall any of them explaining how they had to stay in a hotel for weeks at a time while their home was renovated.

What happened to the guy is unfortunate...but if you work as a bouncer at a strip club, you have to expect that something bad could happen. It isn't like he was shot down while taking the collection as a church usher. I don't care how "upscale" a strip club is...you have guys like Pacman frequenting all the time.

What is your point? You were wrong about the millions on his house. That was never stated EVER.

If he is staying at a motel/hotel..what is the problem? Perhaps he has other issues because of this that we don't know about. If it is 2 story..and no lift how does he get around. Or maybe he has trouble breathing and excess dust is bad for him? I don't know, neither do you.

We don't even know how far along in the renovations they are. The house might not even be able to accomodate a wheelchair...sunken rooms, etc. If you read the stories, you would know that he has a special wheelchair because he is so large..perhaps he can't fit it thru the door...or maybe the bathrooms don't accomodate...ie, half bath on the first floor..full bath on the second.

Your's and everyones point was that he was shaking down the system to renovate his house...that WAS PATENTLY FALSE.

Many were wrong about Sean taylor (i don't recall your position)..methinks you/they could be wrong again.

Stip clubs: Again, more of your puritanism. Very rarely in vegas at those types of places do things ever happen. Infact, it was rented out that night...so, it wasn't just open to the public.

[The Leaper]

If he is staying at a motel/hotel..what is the problem? Perhaps he has other issues because of this that we don't know about. If it is 2 story..and no lift how does he get around. Or maybe he has trouble breathing and excess dust is bad for him? I don't know, neither do you.

I don't know and neither do you. So, either of us could be 100% correct. Considering how well Vegas real estate was going in the decade prior to 2006, this couple should not have been struggling for money if he was in real estate. I doubt he needed to take up a second job at a strip club to get money for his wife's education. He worked there because it was lucrative and I'm guessing the couple liked money. That's well and good. However, his business was lucrative because it has risk. There ain't much pay to be a garbageman...but there ain't much risk either.

I'm not overly sorry for someone who took a risk and got burned. If he was someone just walking by a strip club who got capped in the crossfire, I'd feel more pity. Working as a bouncer at a strip club is a risky enterprise...not necessarily for being shot, but it isn't out of the question. If you take that gig, you should know the risks that come with it. And unlike other dangerous professions, operating a strip club really isn't viewed as a great service to society.

You can defend strip clubs all you want...they aren't welcome around most residential areas for a reason, and it has nothing to do with religion or puritanism. If you can't understand that reason, that is on you.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If he is staying at a motel/hotel..what is the problem? Perhaps he has other issues because of this that we don't know about. If it is 2 story..and no lift how does he get around. Or maybe he has trouble breathing and excess dust is bad for him? I don't know, neither do you.

I don't know and neither do you. So, either of us could be 100% correct. Considering how well Vegas real estate was going in the decade prior to 2006, this couple should not have been struggling for money if he was in real estate. I doubt he needed to take up a second job at a strip club to get money for his wife's education. He worked there because it was lucrative and I'm guessing the couple liked money. That's well and good. However, his business was lucrative because it has risk. There ain't much pay to be a garbageman...but there ain't much risk either.

I'm not overly sorry for someone who took a risk and got burned. If he was someone just walking by a strip club who got capped in the crossfire, I'd feel more pity. Working as a bouncer at a strip club is a risky enterprise...not necessarily for being shot, but it isn't out of the question. If you take that gig, you should know the risks that come with it. And unlike other dangerous professions, operating a strip club really isn't viewed as a great service to society.

You can defend strip clubs all you want...they aren't welcome around most residential areas for a reason, and it has nothing to do with religion or puritanism. If you can't understand that reason, that is on you.

Well, if anything you are foolishly consistent.

Let's review. First you were bitching because he was doing million dollars on his house. Proven wrong.

Now you switch to a dangerous job argument. Nice, you are blaming the victim. Classy move.

Now, you are saying he shoulda done better in the real estate market. That is rich. Neither you nor i know how long he was working in it. Or how successful he was at it. Or how he spent his money. Perhaps he is now overextened on his mortage...or most likely quite a bit of his money has been spent on medical bills.

Under your logic, any legal or illegal alien that moves to this country is at fault if they are ever shot. Clearly they knew that the U.S. is a violent country in which guns are routinely carried by private citizens...legally or illegally.

Or those who toil and convenience stores or liquor stores clearly know that they get robbed so they are to blame for their deaths should they get shot.

And, anyone who attends a school who gets shot is at fault. They should know that schools have been involved in shootings, both at the college and high school level. Homeschooling is the only solution.

Clearly you don't know much about Vegas as shootings and such are quite rare. And, strip clubs don't have a history of VIOLENCE. They are kept out of residential neighborhoods because of SEX and children..not because of violence.

Just like Adult bookstores, liquor stores, gun stores, etc.

THe point, which you consistently miss is that i don't make judgements till the facts are in..which i did with Taylor..whereas you jump to your conclusions and make judgements. And, you were wrong about taylor.

[The Leaper]

Let's review. First you were bitching because he was doing million dollars on his house. Proven wrong.

Not really. What was posted in this thread stated quite clearly that that millions were done in renovations. I guess it is my bad that whoever wrote that story didn't have a clue. I'm not an investigative journalist...I'm not required to sit here and do an hour of research before I type something.


Now you switch to a dangerous job argument. Nice, you are blaming the victim. Classy move.

I didn't blame the victim. I'm pointing out that he should have been well aware of the risks of working as a bouncer/manager at a strip club. It isn't quite the same as being a secretary for a legal firm. Is there fault in that statement?


Now, you are saying he shoulda done better in the real estate market.

No I'm not. It is clear that he DID do well in the real estate market, which is why the couple moved into their dream house. My point is that this "second job" which you seem to believe was something done out of necessity was really something that this guy enjoyed. He WANTED to work at the strip club. He LIKED it. It was bringing him a lot of coin, I suppose...but I seriously doubt he worked there because he HAD to. You don't get a gig as a bouncer or manager at an "upscale" strip club because you have to...you work your way up to that.

You are letting yourself get pulled into some sob story. I've always maintained that this was unfortunate...and it is in no way this guy's fault he got shot. That is entirely on whoever pulled the trigger...and probably secondarily on Pacman Jones.


Perhaps he is now overextened on his mortage...or most likely quite a bit of his money has been spent on medical bills.

I don't doubt the medical bills...but I doubt the financial crisis that caused him to work a "second job", as you suggest, prior to his being shot.

There was no crisis...this wasn't a case of this couple being hard on their luck. They had plenty of cash flow, but probably were also living well outside their means. Again...well and good, until something bad happens. We all have to prepare for the unexpected. If you take the risk of living high on the hog with no safety net, I'm not going to sit here and boo-hoo for you when life yanks on your chain.


Under your logic, any legal or illegal alien that moves to this country is at fault if they are ever shot. Clearly they knew that the U.S. is a violent country in which guns are routinely carried by private citizens...legally or illegally.

Or those who toil and convenience stores or liquor stores clearly know that they get robbed so they are to blame for their deaths should they get shot.

And, anyone who attends a school who gets shot is at fault. They should know that schools have been involved in shootings, both at the college and high school level. Homeschooling is the only solution.

Way to twist everything, Ty. You clearly feel this couple was somehow barely eeking by prior to this incident...so much so that this guy needed to work extra jobs to help put his wife through school. I'll bet he drove a 1979 Datsun too...all rusted out. I bet their dream home was a beat up trailer.

Most bouncers/mangers at "upscale" strip clubs in Vegas probably earn under the pverty level, don't you think?

And I've got some nice land in South Florida to sell you.

This isn't about me trying to put adult entertainment in a bad light. This is about me pointing out that this was a couple who likely was living beyond their means without a safety net. I don't feel sorry for them after the fact, even though I do feel the event was an unfortunate accident. He should have known the risks...and known that their entire financial situation was riding on it. He decided to keep rolling the dice.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Let's review. First you were bitching because he was doing million dollars on his house. Proven wrong.

Not really. What was posted in this thread stated quite clearly that that millions were done in renovations. I guess it is my bad that whoever wrote that story didn't have a clue. I'm not an investigative journalist...I'm not required to sit here and do an hour of research before I type something.


Now you switch to a dangerous job argument. Nice, you are blaming the victim. Classy move.

I didn't blame the victim. I'm pointing out that he should have been well aware of the risks of working as a bouncer/manager at a strip club. It isn't quite the same as being a secretary for a legal firm. Is there fault in that statement?


Now, you are saying he shoulda done better in the real estate market.

No I'm not. It is clear that he DID do well in the real estate market, which is why the couple moved into their dream house. My point is that this "second job" which you seem to believe was something done out of necessity was really something that this guy enjoyed. He WANTED to work at the strip club. He LIKED it. It was bringing him a lot of coin, I suppose...but I seriously doubt he worked there because he HAD to. You don't get a gig as a bouncer or manager at an "upscale" strip club because you have to...you work your way up to that.

You are letting yourself get pulled into some sob story. I've always maintained that this was unfortunate...and it is in no way this guy's fault he got shot. That is entirely on whoever pulled the trigger...and probably secondarily on Pacman Jones.


Perhaps he is now overextened on his mortage...or most likely quite a bit of his money has been spent on medical bills.

I don't doubt the medical bills...but I doubt the financial crisis that caused him to work a "second job", as you suggest, prior to his being shot.

There was no crisis...this wasn't a case of this couple being hard on their luck. They had plenty of cash flow, but probably were also living well outside their means. Again...well and good, until something bad happens. We all have to prepare for the unexpected. If you take the risk of living high on the hog with no safety net, I'm not going to sit here and boo-hoo for you when life yanks on your chain.


Under your logic, any legal or illegal alien that moves to this country is at fault if they are ever shot. Clearly they knew that the U.S. is a violent country in which guns are routinely carried by private citizens...legally or illegally.

Or those who toil and convenience stores or liquor stores clearly know that they get robbed so they are to blame for their deaths should they get shot.

And, anyone who attends a school who gets shot is at fault. They should know that schools have been involved in shootings, both at the college and high school level. Homeschooling is the only solution.

Way to twist everything, Ty. You clearly feel this couple was somehow barely eeking by prior to this incident...so much so that this guy needed to work extra jobs to help put his wife through school. I'll bet he drove a 1979 Datsun too...all rusted out. I bet their dream home was a beat up trailer.

Most bouncers/mangers at "upscale" strip clubs in Vegas probably earn under the pverty level, don't you think?

And I've got some nice land in South Florida to sell you.

This isn't about me trying to put adult entertainment in a bad light. This is about me pointing out that this was a couple who likely was living beyond their means without a safety net. I don't feel sorry for them after the fact, even though I do feel the event was an unfortunate accident. He should have known the risks...and known that their entire financial situation was riding on it. He decided to keep rolling the dice.

Again with the assumptions.

1. I clearly poined out that the quote wasn't there. Anything that has the word WORDPRESS should be understood by any savvy internet user that it is a blog.

2. Risks. Please show any factual evidence that working at a strip club is more dangerous than most other jobs. I'm willing to bet the incidence of violence is less. Why? Because they are already under intense scrutiny. More importanly, localize it to vegas.

3. Enjoyed. How so? And, where is your proof. Guys that like working in strip clubs don't work the morning shift..that is when the ugliest girls work and is the most undesirable shift.

4. Clearly, it states that he worked there as a second job to pay for his wife's education. What part of that don't you understand. He was going to work at 4-5 in the morning. How stupid would he be not to take a pt job that he had experience in...working in clubs.

5. Your reading comprehension needs work. I never suggested a financial cirsis caused him to work a second job. I said that a financial crisis is NOW after huge medical bills, unable to work, and since his wife is in law school she can't work..and now has LOANS.

6. Outside their means? Again, more conjecture. You don't know about that. One catastrophe and most people are outside their means. Perhaps you need a basic lesson in american spending habits, mortgages and credit cards. But, again, that isn't relevant. They didn't do anything wrong.

The fact is that they moved to Vegas in 98...it wasn't like they've been riding a huge real estate boom.

7. No one is asking you to cry for them. But, to be callous and ridiculous is also not expected.

8. NO, i don't think they were eeking by. But, i do think that whatever cash they had was eaten up by major medical bills. And, considering that that he was the only one working..don't you think that their income was less..thus a second job. As a pt job..let's give him 30K, but factor in a slow vegas maket. OH, and let's just take the most relevant part...HE WAS THERE ONLY TWO WEEKS BEFORE GETTING SHOT.
And, if you have to deal with workman's comp you would know that you have to fight for what you get.

"Urbanski's attorney Matthew Dushoff says the final tab will be millions of dollars. A motorized wheelchair costs $13,000. A van will cost $71,000. Home renovations will cost a bundle. Worker's compensation is supposed to pick up the medical bills, but Kathy fears the insurer is trying to shortchange her husband. "We've had to hire lawyers because workers' comp is definitely not on our side," she says. "

Here is quote from him...tell me he sounds like a shady guy.

"If I can ride a motorcycle again, if I can play the guitar again, if I can play golf with my dad again, that would be everything," Urbanski says. "That's all I need. That and Kathy. If I have my best friend by my side, I know we'll have a wonderful life together."

"For the rest of my life, I'll have to worry about things like skin sores and bladder infections. But I have Kathy," he says, squeezing her hand. "As long as we're together, I have a reason to get out of bed in the morning."