Female B-Ball Referee Banned Because of Gender

[oregonpackfan]

A Catholic high school near Topeka, Kansas recently banned a female referee from officiating a high school boys basketball game.

The religious school cited the reason for the ban because the bible states a woman should not be put in a position of authority over boys.

Needless to say, the move have generated a tremendous amount of outrage.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/national/main3829861.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829861

[Harlan Huckleby]

they can do what they want, its not up to the news media or general public to pass judgement, the parents in the religious group should voice their opinion.

[MJZiggy]

Actually, I didn't see the reference to the bible in the article. What I read was that the school doesn't believe that women should be in authority over boys. If it's in the bible, then I have yet to come across it and if they wanna start making policies by what's in the bible their school will turn into a very interesting place.

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

C'mon MJ, you know it has to be in the bible. The bible is rife with that type of thinking.

What do you think "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife" is all about?

What do think the marriage contract is about? Or the story of Leah and Rachel?


BTW, from the picture of the ref, i'm not so sure of her gender. :oops:

[MadtownPacker]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.Thats fucking stupid. Why should they have to change the policy?? Im sick of all this "participation award" mentality BS. If you dont meet the standards then too damn bad regardless of how unreasonable those standards are.

[MJZiggy]

C'mon MJ, you know it has to be in the bible. The bible is rife with that type of thinking.

What do you think "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife" is all about?

What do think the marriage contract is about? Or the story of Leah and Rachel?


BTW, from the picture of the ref, i'm not so sure of her gender. :oops:

Ya know it's just occurred to me that on that commandment, I can get off on the technicality and covet whoever I want...Hello, Henry!!

[Harlan Huckleby]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.

??? On what basis? It is a private school. One of our freedoms is to form private organizations and do things our own way: smoke cigars, be racist or sexist, have sex with your neighbor's wife.

The government can control discrimination in hiring practices, perhaps there is some angle there.

[MJZiggy]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.

??? On what basis? It is a private school. One of our freedoms is to form private organizations and do things our own way: smoke cigars, be racist or sexist, have sex with your neighbor's wife.

The government can control discrimination in hiring practices, perhaps there is some angle there.

I'm referring to both angles. Firstly, discriminatory hiring as these refs get paid, and I'm also referring to any games being played against public institutions along with the fact that it is the school's fault if the game can't be played because they don't approve of the choice of refs. Refs were provided but the school rejected them. It's their fault if other refs aren't available or willing to call the game.

[SkinBasket]

It's their fault if other refs aren't available or willing to call the game.

So they get left out because they refuse to let someone else impose their ideas and beliefs on them? That sounds enlightened.

Schools make accommodations all the time so retards or girls can play boy sports, so why not for these kids? Women make poor officials anyway.

[Deputy Nutz]

I wonder if the school has female teachers?

[Partial]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.Thats fucking stupid. Why should they have to change the policy?? Im sick of all this "participation award" mentality BS. If you dont meet the standards then too damn bad regardless of how unreasonable those standards are.

I agree.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well this isn't exactly a Catholic school, lets be fair.


St. Mary's Academy, about 25 miles northwest of Topeka, Kan., is owned and operated by the Society of St. Pius X, which follows older Roman Catholic laws. The society's world leader, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II in the late 1980s.

[MadtownPacker]

After reading the article I lay the blame on the schools. This should have been dealt with way before the game. It's really on them for not being prepared since they knew what was expected.

[MJZiggy]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.Thats fucking stupid. Why should they have to change the policy?? Im sick of all this "participation award" mentality BS. If you dont meet the standards then too damn bad regardless of how unreasonable those standards are.

So if the NFL decides that men are no longer good enough to ref the games (they do keep screwing it up it seems--we are always hearing about their bad calls) and will in the future only use females to ref the games, that's fine with you then. Men just don't meet the standards I guess.

[MadtownPacker]

Now that you mention the NFL. seems like they dont think females are good enough either. Good!

[MJZiggy]

Talk to Mrs. Mara about that, and I believe there have been a couple other female owners, but Mrs. M was the one on the platform with the Lombardi trophy this year...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

C'mon MJ, you know it has to be in the bible. The bible is rife with that type of thinking.

What do you think "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife" is all about?

What do think the marriage contract is about? Or the story of Leah and Rachel?


BTW, from the picture of the ref, i'm not so sure of her gender. :oops:

Ya know it's just occurred to me that on that commandment, I can get off on the technicality and covet whoever I want...Hello, Henry!!

There is no technicality...it doesn't say anything about coveting thy neighbor's husband. A piece of property can't covet anything. :roll:

[MJZiggy]

C'mon MJ, you know it has to be in the bible. The bible is rife with that type of thinking.

What do you think "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife" is all about?

What do think the marriage contract is about? Or the story of Leah and Rachel?


BTW, from the picture of the ref, i'm not so sure of her gender. :oops:

Ya know it's just occurred to me that on that commandment, I can get off on the technicality and covet whoever I want...Hello, Henry!!

There is no technicality...it doesn't say anything about coveting thy neighbor's husband. A piece of property can't covet anything. :roll:

My hormone levels beg to differ. :oops:

[swede]

Well this isn't exactly a Catholic school, lets be fair.


St. Mary's Academy, about 25 miles northwest of Topeka, Kan., is owned and operated by the Society of St. Pius X, which follows older Roman Catholic laws. The society's world leader, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II in the late 1980s.

I thought something was wrong with the premise of the story.

Excellent fact-checking Nutz.

This aint the Roman Catholics at work. It's a rogue nutter of a private school.

If the Catholics didn't want women in authority over boys how do you explain all the nun-induced ruler scars on my hands?

[GBRulz]

As much as one may not agree with it, it's a private school and they can do what they want.

Sorta like BYU, where drinking alcohol, men with hair past their collars and women with more than one ear pierced can get you booted. IMO, dumb but it's a private school and their beliefs about the LDS church.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

C'mon MJ, you know it has to be in the bible. The bible is rife with that type of thinking.

What do you think "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife" is all about?

What do think the marriage contract is about? Or the story of Leah and Rachel?


BTW, from the picture of the ref, i'm not so sure of her gender. :oops:

Ya know it's just occurred to me that on that commandment, I can get off on the technicality and covet whoever I want...Hello, Henry!!

There is no technicality...it doesn't say anything about coveting thy neighbor's husband. A piece of property can't covet anything. :roll:

My hormone levels beg to differ. :oops:

I swear i'm quite handsome and i do have a ton of frequent flyers.

I can be there tonite! 8-)

[MJZiggy]

It could never work. I like mainstream music...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It could never work. I like mainstream music...

I could help develop your palette. Or i could suffer in silence.

For the love of a good woman i'll give up my psuedo hipster music taste.

Daughtry and Nickleback are my new favs. I just can't get enough JT!!

[Zool]

Here's a movie of Tyrone in a rap battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfuRcgHI2I&feature=related

[MJZiggy]

I honestly couldn't make it through 2 minutes of that....

[Zool]

Sorry TB, I was tryin to help ya out.

[The Leaper]

The religious school cited the reason for the ban because the bible states a woman should not be put in a position of authority over boys.

So I guess to have children honoring your father and MOTHER, in essense through obedience and respect, apparently isn't in the Bible. :roll:

These kind of legalistic morons are about the same as the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus verbally bitch-slapped with the truth on numerous occasions while on earth.

[SkinBasket]

Here's a movie of Tyrone in a rap battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfuRcgHI2I&feature=related


All I got to say is I hope those kids parents never see that spot. I would send my kid to military school after watching that.

[Patler]

Interesting situation. Lots and lots of questions to be answered. I wonder, why was this was made into national news? It should have been handled by the associations involved, by the people with knowledge of the situation. Now, people like us, with no first hand information, will form staunch opinions from which we are unlikely to waiver.

It seems the only person who has remained calm and smart about this is the female official:


However, she told The Kansas City Star that she was "dumbfounded" by the incident but that she is not angry at the school. She said she does not want the situation to go any further than it already has.

"This issue was going to come up eventually," said Campbell, 49, a retired Albuquerque, N.M., police officer who now lives in Ozawkie, Kan. "I just happened to be the person who was there this time.

"It's kind of a sticky situation. It needs to be looked at carefully, slowly, with all the facts."

The questions surrounding religious groups, their freedom to practice their religions and beliefs, the differences they hold regarding the roles of the sexes, etc. are not easily addressed. Do they not have the right to practice what they believe? More importantly, should community, government and society work with them only if they subscribe to what we believe? Should they have to compromise their beliefs to interact with us on that level?

I disagree with them, and would probably be more than happy to debate them on such topics. However, does it hurt us to allow them to practice what they believe? It would seem to me that the accommodation would be small to provide only male officials to them. On a local basis, it probably could have been worked out, and no one would have been harmed. Now, with national attention, the result will likely be that the school must compromise its beliefs, or drop athletics. It will probably choose the latter.

I dislike focusing national attention on a local issue such as this.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.

??? On what basis? It is a private school. One of our freedoms is to form private organizations and do things our own way: smoke cigars, be racist or sexist, have sex with your neighbor's wife.

The government can control discrimination in hiring practices, perhaps there is some angle there.

I'm referring to both angles. Firstly, discriminatory hiring as these refs get paid, and I'm also referring to any games being played against public institutions along with the fact that it is the school's fault if the game can't be played because they don't approve of the choice of refs. Refs were provided but the school rejected them. It's their fault if other refs aren't available or willing to call the game.

This is a tough call. If a woman in that sect wishes to be a referee, and is willing to go against church elders and file a lawsuit, sure, I would support her. I'm OK with the government forcing a sect to hire woman or make some other accomodation.

Wait a second. I already changed my mind. I wouldn't support a woman being able to launch a lawsuit against the Catholic Church forcing them to allow female priests. We have conflicting values, and I'd have to give the nod to religious freedom. Tough issue.

As far as your idea of forcing the school to forfeit games, or setting their school busses on fire, or the other remedies you propose: nah. Better to be tolerant of other ways of life. I'm not going to force the Amish to treat their woman folk as equals to men. Better to play the Amish in basketball than to ostricize them over a difference in values.

[Zool]

I can tell you from first hand experience, Amish dudes throw a football like a girl.

[MJZiggy]

That said, I hope they had to forfeit that game and fail to put together another officiating crew and forfeit each one until the policy is changed.

??? On what basis? It is a private school. One of our freedoms is to form private organizations and do things our own way: smoke cigars, be racist or sexist, have sex with your neighbor's wife.

The government can control discrimination in hiring practices, perhaps there is some angle there.

I'm referring to both angles. Firstly, discriminatory hiring as these refs get paid, and I'm also referring to any games being played against public institutions along with the fact that it is the school's fault if the game can't be played because they don't approve of the choice of refs. Refs were provided but the school rejected them. It's their fault if other refs aren't available or willing to call the game.

This is a tough call. If a woman in that sect wishes to be a referee, and is willing to go against church elders and file a lawsuit, sure, I would support her. I'm OK with the government forcing a sect to hire woman or make some other accomodation.

Wait a second. I already changed my mind. I wouldn't support a woman being able to launch a lawsuit against the Catholic Church forcing them to allow female priests. We have conflicting values, and I'd have to give the nod to religious freedom. Tough issue.

As far as your idea of forcing the school to forfeit games, or setting their school busses on fire, or the other remedies you propose: nah. Better to be tolerant of other ways of life. I'm not going to force the Amish to treat their woman folk as equals to men. Better to play the Amish in basketball than to ostricize them over a difference in values.

If the woman were a member of their faith, and the game were played only with members of that sect, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with what they chose to do. The difference was that she wasn't a member of their sect and if I understand what I read correctly, neither were their opponents, so this becomes the school almost pushing their beliefs on others. I have no problem with the way the Amish treat their women (or throw their footballs), but if they try to tell the Lutherans that they can't have women priests in their community, that's more problematic. That said, Patler's right. If it didn't bother the ref in question, it shouldn't have been an issue and should have been contained locally in any case.

[Harlan Huckleby]

you're cutting a fine line. First of all, what does it matter whether the school is hiring refs in or out of their own sect?

wait, i think i am getting your main point: this religious school is going to demand that the other team provide male-only referees when they (the religious school) are the visiting team.

OK, that's a problem. Still, i don't like your attitude. :)

[Patler]

If the woman were a member of their faith, and the game were played only with members of that sect, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with what they chose to do. The difference was that she wasn't a member of their sect and if I understand what I read correctly, neither were their opponents, so this becomes the school almost pushing their beliefs on others. I have no problem with the way the Amish treat their women (or throw their footballs), but if they try to tell the Lutherans that they can't have women priests in their community, that's more problematic. That said, Patler's right. If it didn't bother the ref in question, it shouldn't have been an issue and should have been contained locally in any case.

As I understand it, this game was played in their gym, and they paid the refs. I suspect this made it more of an issue for them. Sanctioning something they do not believe in. I wonder if they would have raised the question if they were the visiting team and not responsible for "hiring" the refs. That may have been a possible accommodation, only male refs sent to their school, but they take what shows up when visiting at another school. Who would it really have hurt?

[MJZiggy]

Well, if they were the ones responsible for hiring the ref, they needed to make it clear from the get-go, not when the refs were actually there getting ready to start the game. They should have handled this long before then.

And Harlan, Go lay down!!!

[Patler]

Well, if they were the ones responsible for hiring the ref, they needed to make it clear from the get-go, not when the refs were actually there getting ready to start the game. They should have handled this long before then.


Yes, that would have been preferable. It's likely that they never thought of it. If things are run there as in some situations I've been involved in, the teams submit their schedules, and the refs association assigns officials to the game. That's why I put "hiring" in quotes. The article said the official in question was one of only "about five" females in the association, and she has only done it for two years. The school may not have even thought about a woman showing up for the boys game.

[MJZiggy]

It could never work. I like mainstream music...

I could help develop your palette. Or i could suffer in silence.

For the love of a good woman i'll give up my psuedo hipster music taste.

Daughtry and Nickleback are my new favs. I just can't get enough JT!!

Wait just a second. How do you know I'm not some Brunhilda in real life. (and by mainstream I would never include JT. File him under "just wrong.")

[Zool]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

[MJZiggy]

Ugly witch.

[Zool]

Sorta like Bertha. Got it. I learnded today.

[oregonpackfan]

Got it. I learnded today.[/quote]

You still have much to learn! Your grammar is about the same level as the one used by George W. Bush! :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Ziggy is thinking of Broom Hilda, who was a comic strip witch a few years ago. Glad to be of service.

http://www.aboutfrostproductions.com/broomhilda/local_files/PropGraphic.jpg

[Freak Out]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Never heard any Wagner ring cycle? German stories? Live a little man.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It could never work. I like mainstream music...

I could help develop your palette. Or i could suffer in silence.

For the love of a good woman i'll give up my psuedo hipster music taste.

Daughtry and Nickleback are my new favs. I just can't get enough JT!!

Wait just a second. How do you know I'm not some Brunhilda in real life. (and by mainstream I would never include JT. File him under "just wrong.")

I don't care what you look like. YOUR SOUL IS BEAUTIFUL!!!

[Zool]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Never heard any Wagner ring cycle? German stories? Live a little man.

I should see more 19th century German opera?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Ziggy is thinking of Broom Hilda, who was a comic strip witch a few years ago. Glad to be of service.

http://www.aboutfrostproductions.com/broomhilda/local_files/PropGraphic.jpg

Wrong. She was thinking of the FRANKISH Queen who ruled the eastern kingdoms of Austrasia and Burgundy in the names of her sons and grandsons. Initially known as a liberal ruler of great political acumen, she became notorious for her cruelty and avarice.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ugly witch.

This is what Ziggy was thinking of. Tyrone, if you spent less time desperately searching Wikipedia for clues, and more time LISTENING to Ziggy, you might be making more progress in your courtship.

[Zool]

Ugly witch.

This is what Ziggy was thinking of. Tyrone, if you spent less time desperately searching Wikipedia for clues, and more time LISTENING to Ziggy, you might be making more progress in your courtship.

Its not nice to lie sir.

[Harlan Huckleby]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Never heard any Wagner ring cycle? German stories? Live a little man.

And you're not paying attention either. Did you hear Ziggy say she likes mainstream pop music?

No wonder you guys aren't getting laid. You have to at least appear to be paying attention.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ugly witch.

This is what Ziggy was thinking of. Tyrone, if you spent less time desperately searching Wikipedia for clues, and more time LISTENING to Ziggy, you might be making more progress in your courtship.

I was just razzin you.

But, i should take your advice. Could you also swing by and do a Fab 5 makeover on me as well. :oops:

[Freak Out]

WFT is a Brunhilda?

Never heard any Wagner ring cycle? German stories? Live a little man.

And you're not paying attention either. Did you hear Ziggy say she likes mainstream pop music?

No wonder you guys aren't getting laid. You have to at least appear to be paying attention.

Ziggy? Zool? I get plenty if you must know. You just a little confused today after you're girl went down last night?

[Deputy Nutz]

Here's a movie of Tyrone in a rap battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfuRcgHI2I&feature=related


All I got to say is I hope those kids parents never see that spot. I would send my kid to military school after watching that.

If that was one of my kids I would have lost all respect for them. I wouldn't even bother attending their graduation.