Williams Tagged

[Farley Face]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/02/20/packers-use-franchise-tag-on-williams.aspx

[Farley Face]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/02/20/packers-use-franchise-tag-on-williams.aspx

As I have stated in previous posts, I am in favor of the move. Now we trade him for a pick or two or keep him for the year. Win win.

[RashanGary]

Good move. One more year or lock him up long term for less than UFA value.

[RashanGary]

I acctually feel a little more comfortable about 2008 now.

If I had to guess at what our DT's grades would be in 2008 based on how they played last year, their age, injuries and others, I would guess they go something like this:


Pickett B (he is what he is, a very good run stuffer and good overall player)
Jolly B- (I think he could have been our best DT in 08 but injury holds him back for one more year. Still, he's a good overall player both pass and run)
Williams B- (He is what he is, a very good pass rusher and good overall player)
Harrell B- (I expect a big jump, but still a year a way from being our best DT. I see him as a very similar player to Jolly this year)
Muir C (I'm guessing he's our 5th guy. I thought he showed potential last year. Maybe he turns into a player, maybe he's just an injury emergency or maybe it's someone else in this spot)


People talk about our DT rotation being so deep and strong. Well, with Williams maybe they were deep, but they are certainly not among the strongest groups in the NFL at the top. The only real edge I see in our unit (until a guy like Jolly or Harrell takes another step forward) is that we have what should be four starting caliber DT's where most teams only have two.

It will afford us the ability to use one or two as DE's in goal line. It will allow us (when healthy) to play each guy about 50% of the snaps (which will allow our defense to be fresh in the 4th quarter). It will allow us to rest Pickett, Jolly, Williams or Harrell for a game if they got knicked up, which will also probably mean they recover faster.

Really, this should help our team most in the 4th quarter of games and in the 4th quarter of the year (as well as the playoffs). A deep Dline can go a long way toward a successfull post season.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I like the move. I wonder if they lock him up to a long term deal or if this is just to get another year out of him? I hope if we sign him to long term deal that it doesn't mean we can't re-sign Jolly when his contract is up becuase he is a lot younger and would be a better option to keep.

[b bulldog]

107.5, The Fan has just reported that ESPN is reporting that they may be looking to trade Williams.

[b bulldog]

I hope they trade him but if he stays in GB, I wonder if Jolly's injury is worse than we thought and if they don't have a lot of confidence in harrell.

[RashanGary]

bulldog, DL is a position that requries depth (like WR or RB).

Trade or not, Williams will help this team in 2008 unless he goes down with injury early in the season.

[GBRulz]

I think Williams' future with GB past the '09 season will greatly depend on the progress Harrell makes this upcoming season.

[Brando19]

107.5, The Fan has just reported that ESPN is reporting that they may be looking to trade Williams.

I wonder who they're looking to trade him for?

[BallHawk]

107.5, The Fan has just reported that ESPN is reporting that they may be looking to trade Williams.

I wonder who they're looking to trade him for?

Draft picks would be my guess.

[b bulldog]

Draft picks and I know both lines are positions where depth is needed but I don't get this move unless they are really looking to swing a trade.

[b bulldog]

99 must be pissed, he would have been the top DL on the market

[GBRulz]

107.5, The Fan has just reported that ESPN is reporting that they may be looking to trade Williams.

Then we all know how much truth there is to that.

[The Leaper]

He's not worth the money, so I would expect that Thompson will look to trade him.

He was too valuable to let walk for nothing, however. So, tagging him was a prudent choice IMO.

[The Leaper]

99 must be pissed, he would have been the top DL on the market

I doubt he is pissed...because I think he genuinely likes the Packer organization and knows the team is a contender. I'm sure he is disappointed, but by all accounts he did want to remain in Green Bay...although probably with a long term deal in place.

Guys are pissed when the Oakland Raiders or Arizona Cardinals tag their ass.

[RashanGary]

99 is irrate. Who gives a shit what team you play for. That is secondary and a FAR FAR FAR secondary to the legit long term security of your family and if you don't care about 6 or 12 up front and 25 likely to be earned or 6 likely to be earned than you are crazy. Injuries are a REAL fear in the NFL.

[RashanGary]

After taxes, 99 probably pulls in 3 million. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have three million but if he gets injured next year and never makes another dime he'll be awfully pissed that he's looking at a 1.5 million dollar bank account (after blowing half of it) instead of a 4.5 million dollar bank acount.

[RashanGary]

I'm suprised more people are not commenting on this. This is acctually the most exciting moment since the season ended.

[Harlan Huckleby]

who cares if he is mad.

it is silly to talk about "security for his family" when a guy gets a 3M salary. That's a lot of dough. People always drag in the family when the issue is really greed. (not that I mind anybody trying to make as much as they can)

This is what the franchise tag was invented for. Fuck him if he can't take a joke. :lol:

[Farley Face]

I'm suprised more people are not commenting on this. This is acctually the most exciting moment since the season ended.

All possible scenarios were hashed through extensively before today on this board so most posters likely feel their opinion has already been voiced. I'm more surprised how badly Bubba is getting beat up on the JSO Blog. Ruthless crowd over there. I think cutting him made sense but I'll stop short of bidding him good riddance and questioning his heart. Brutal.

[RashanGary]

:lol:

I don't care, HH. I really like Williams as a player right now and I think he's a decent guy (most people are IMO).


That said, teams just aren't going to win very many NFL games if they go about filling their salary cap at full UFA price. You have to get bargains. You have to use tags to limit competition in contract negotiations. You can also sign guys a year or two early and keep competition down. As a franchise, you have to draft well because it allows you to have the upperhand in later negotiations (as well as giving you more cheap young talent before the contract gets redone). You have to do well scowering the scrap heaps because that gives you more good young talent as well and also gives you the upper hand in later negotiations.

The Packers are doing the right thing here. They have the upper hand because of a good draft pick from the Sherman era. I wish Williams would have signed last off season but here we are. Hopefully he signs a long one now because I'm in the camp that you can never have enough good dlinemen (esspecially young ones or guys in their prime)

[Carolina_Packer]

And I recall CW saying he'd even consider the home town discount for the Packers, so perhaps when they franchised him they said they'd try and work out a deal. Tag 'em and bag 'em! He's good and proven. Pickett is not getting any younger; not that CW is the same type of player as Pickett, but he has the most experience outside of Pickett and you need experienced guys in the rotation along with young guys, so I'm in favor of keeping CW.

[MadtownPacker]

Like most of TT's moves this one makes sense for many reason. Cant let him get away for nothing and he solidifies the DL rotation for another season until Harrell is further evaluated. Keep him or trade him, this was the right move.

[KYPack]

This will probably be a record year for tags.

They may be as many as 12 or 13.

Last year there were 7.

[Bretsky]

Great Move
Prudent and Smart
Good Job TT

[CaliforniaCheez]

I didn't think they would do it.

Well. they now have time to negotiate a long term deal.

[b bulldog]

Home town discount in the eyes of the Packers or the players eyes???

[Bretsky]

Home town discount in the eyes of the Packers or the players eyes???


In the rising cap days players realize this is a business; if they are team guys they will be happy for C Williams and at the same time realize rising salaries may be good for them down the road as well.

That home town discount is just player talk anyways because he likes playing here.

[oregonpackfan]

I also support putting the franchise tag on Williams. In the long run, I think it will not only benefit the Packers, but also Williams.

[Deputy Nutz]

99 is irrate. Who gives a shit what team you play for. That is secondary and a FAR FAR FAR secondary to the legit long term security of your family and if you don't care about 6 or 12 up front and 25 likely to be earned or 6 likely to be earned than you are crazy. Injuries are a REAL fear in the NFL.

that 6.5 million is guaranteed. Everyone has to pay taxes in the NFL, most have to pay state income tax unless you live in AZ, TX, FL and maybe a few more, but anways, he gets hurt and can't play football guess what, contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed anyways. Sure he might stand to make 10 to 12 million in guarantees if he was signed as free agent, but I would guess more like 8 million. So in reality he would only lose out on 2 million maybe a little more. If he is still irate tell him to talk to Gene Upshaw.

I think the franchise tag is bogus anyways, it is really unfair to players now with so much of their contracts coming in the way of signing bonuses and guaranteed bonuses. before the influx of up front money the franchise tag wasn't a big deal, but now they miss out on a serious part, the most important part of the contract. Season salary is something you get cut over not something to be overjoyed about.

[twoseven]

Is it fair that an OK DT like Williams was going to get greatly overpaid by somebody just because of a few circumstances that didn't have as much to do with his production as it did with his availibility as the best of the rest versus all the other stud DLs getting tagged?

He gets a guaranteed pay raise of almost 750%. If he's mad tell him to call Hayensworth, Allen, and Suggs and see what they say. Tell him to cry to Pickett who got paid 2.5 mil last year and is easliy well ahead of CW in production. Regardless, he has to play hard to earn more money now. Prove he's not another Hunt and someone WILL pay him next year, you know TT won't keep him hanging. The last thing he can afford to do is be pissed about anything and let his production slip. He'll guarantee himself a severe salary drop in 09' if he does.

For all we know, TT offered him 3-4 or even 4-5 mil a year for a longer term which we can guess his agent would balk at, so if he gets hurt this year it's hardly fair to point fingers at upper management for not taking care of CW and his family. He is NOT one of the best DT in the game, he does NOT deserve to be paid like one just yet. IMO, reality is that 3 million a year is still more than he deserves for what he actually does on the field right now, so to me he just got a guranteed two years at 3.125 mil with a chance to prove to the entire NFL he is worth more.

[RashanGary]

I misspoke.

Corey Williams is VERY disappointed. The UFA market is a joke in what players get paid. Williams would have gotten far more.

[The Leaper]

99 is irrate. Who gives a shit what team you play for.

You are crazy.

Sure, money is important...but just about all of these guys play to WIN. Williams will be happier making $6M under the tag in Green Bay next year and likely being part of a playoff team with potential title hopes than he would be making $20M+ guaranteed playing for the Dolphins and going 4-12.

While injury is a concern, it is rather unlikely that Williams would sustain an injury that would entirely wipe out his future earning potential...and if he has an agent worth a damn, he will have an insurance policy on himself this season just in case that were to happen.

Sitting here and telling us that a $6M salary isn't enough to secure your family for a long time is ridiculous. I could take $2M right now and live with my family comfortably for the rest of my life...living off the interest would still pull in $150-200k annually if invested properly, which would put you among the richest people on the face of the planet (percentage wise anyway) without having to lift a finger.

Williams is disappointed, but I highly doubt he is irrate. He knew full well this was a likely scenario.

[The Leaper]

Sure he might stand to make 10 to 12 million in guarantees if he was signed as free agent, but I would guess more like 8 million.

He'd make a lot more guaranteed money. He'd be worth at least $8-10M in bonus money over a 5-6 year deal...and if you signed a contract like that, the chances of getting cut in the first 2 years is almost nil due to the cap hit the team would have to take, so you can essentially consider the first 2 years of salary to be guaranteed as well...even though it technically is not.

He'd be looking at roughly twice the guaranteed money in free agency...and that is conservative. Being the top DT out there, the potential to garner even more guaranteed money certainly existed.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Has anyone heard anything on Moss getting tagged?

[RashanGary]

Has anyone heard anything on Moss getting tagged?

Good question, not yet

[packers11]

Has anyone heard anything on Moss getting tagged?

The deadline is today at 4pm est...

[Partial]

I misspoke.

Corey Williams is VERY disappointed. The UFA market is a joke in what players get paid. Williams would have gotten far more.

Did he tell you that personally or how do you know this?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

99 is irrate. Who gives a shit what team you play for. That is secondary and a FAR FAR FAR secondary to the legit long term security of your family and if you don't care about 6 or 12 up front and 25 likely to be earned or 6 likely to be earned than you are crazy. Injuries are a REAL fear in the NFL.

that 6.5 million is guaranteed. Everyone has to pay taxes in the NFL, most have to pay state income tax unless you live in AZ, TX, FL and maybe a few more, but anways, he gets hurt and can't play football guess what, contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed anyways. Sure he might stand to make 10 to 12 million in guarantees if he was signed as free agent, but I would guess more like 8 million. So in reality he would only lose out on 2 million maybe a little more. If he is still irate tell him to talk to Gene Upshaw.

I think the franchise tag is bogus anyways, it is really unfair to players now with so much of their contracts coming in the way of signing bonuses and guaranteed bonuses. before the influx of up front money the franchise tag wasn't a big deal, but now they miss out on a serious part, the most important part of the contract. Season salary is something you get cut over not something to be overjoyed about.

Hey, apparently the state of AZ owes me a ton of money as i've been paying state taxes since i've lived here.

Care to take up my case?

[woodbuck27]

Impressive move by Ted Thompson.

That gives him more options for our team that's better that just allowing him to slip away for zilch.

Nice move Ted. Your learning.

Bubba? Well his time went a few years ago. I really always felt that the long time it took to get him in TC two seasons ago damaged Bubba no matter what the reports were on him working out.

Bubba wasn't ever the most entusiastic acting fella but he could make the short Red Zone TD play moving horizontally if he couldn't extend the field.

He was also a dependable blocker.

Bye BUBBA FRANKS.

[b bulldog]

Moss didn't get tagged. Some reports having the Pats and Moss having a deal already done that will be announced soon.

[pbmax]

I am not in favor of this move at this price. That said, its just a one year deal, not a long termer with a big bonus and future cap hit.

The bigger danger is in his attitude in being tagged. Will he hold out. miss camp, develop a bad attitude toward the team?

A player who lost effectiveness as a full-time starter late in the year is not worth this price. But we have the cap space, T2 might just be renting him for one more year.

[KYPack]

Never thought in a million years that we would tag him.

TT showed me something. We had the room and we were the only team in the league that could sign the guy at that price.

If Harrell comes on strong, this could be a brilliant move for TT & the Pack.

[woodbuck27]

Moss didn't get tagged. Some reports having the Pats and Moss having a deal already done that will be announced soon.

I believe if they keep Randy Moss that's the smart move, but I saw reason to believe that isn't going to happen.

That's a good watch though.

[Fritz]

I like this move. It gives TT some time to see if something long term can be worked out. If it can't be, TT can try for a sign and trade, and if that doesn't work, he can just see how Williams's attitude is. If he's okay, then the team gets one more year out of him and time for Harrell. If he's going to hold out, you can either continue to negotiate, tell him to go home, or cut him.

This move gives TT some options he didn't have without the tag.

[Scott Campbell]

The more I thought about this, the more I thought the move was pretty much a no brainer. And that's why you're seeing the tag used on more players this year. There's very little risk with the one year committment, and it preserves lots of flexibility. Keep him. Trade him. Sign him. Or just let it expire next year. Given our cap situation this year, there was very little reason to let him hit UFA.

There is far more risk in signing a player to a long term deal given the greater amount of guaranteed money involved, and the deferred nature of the cap hits.

[RashanGary]

The more I thought about this, the more I thought the move was pretty much a no brainer. And that's why you're seeing the tag used on more players this year. There's very little risk with the one year committment, and it preserves lots of flexibility. Keep him. Trade him. Sign him. Or just let it expire next year. Given our cap situation this year, there was very little reason to let him hit UFA.

There is far more risk in signing a player to a long term deal given the greater amount of guaranteed money involved, and the deferred nature of the cap hits.

On top of that, the cap has gone up over 33% in two years. Contracts have not gone up yet. For whatever reason, NFL clubs just havn't dished out too many of the 7 year 80 million dollar deals that Clements got (and I think 5 or 6 guys will get that kind of money this year).

Over the next year or two, I think you're going to see those tag numbers catch up to the cap. 6 million tags this year might be 10 million dollars in two years where they've remained pretty steady the last two or three years.

In a normal year, I don't think Williams get tagged. If the tags were in sequence with the cap they'd be around 8 or 9 mil right now. I dont' think Williams would get that. That's why I think so many used tags this year. On top of that, since nobody has started to spend their massive new bank accounts, nobody is forced into using signing bonuses yet.

[Scott Campbell]

The more I thought about this, the more I thought the move was pretty much a no brainer. And that's why you're seeing the tag used on more players this year. There's very little risk with the one year committment, and it preserves lots of flexibility. Keep him. Trade him. Sign him. Or just let it expire next year. Given our cap situation this year, there was very little reason to let him hit UFA.

There is far more risk in signing a player to a long term deal given the greater amount of guaranteed money involved, and the deferred nature of the cap hits.

On top of that, the cap has gone up over 33% in two years. Contracts have not gone up yet. For whatever reason, NFL clubs just havn't dished out too many of the 7 year 80 million dollar deals that Clements got (and I think 5 or 6 guys will get that kind of money this year).

Over the next year or two, I think you're going to see those tag numbers catch up to the cap. 6 million tags this year might be 10 million dollars in two years where they've remained pretty steady the last two or three years.

In a normal year, I don't think Williams get tagged. If the tags were in sequence with the cap they'd be around 8 or 9 mil right now. I dont' think Williams would get that. That's why I think so many used tags this year. On top of that, since nobody has started to spend their massive new bank accounts, nobody is forced into using signing bonuses yet.


Also a very good point.

[Fritz]

Given the logic of these posts, it makes me laugh to read in the Detroit papers that the Lions may try to trade Roy Williams because they don't think they can re-sign him when he's up in two years...

It's like a free circus show every year here. I love it. And William Clay Ford is the ring master, with Matt Millen his lead clown.