Over Rated???

[Mazzin]

Who would you say is the most over-rated player in the NFL? Why?


My Answer: Mike Vick

Why? Because living in Ga. all of everyone I went to school with thought he was the most oustanding player to ever grace the game. I will admit he is fun to watch...RUN...but to watch him throw is just plain ole' painful. HOW DOES THIS MAN MAKE THE PROBOWL...

P.s. ATLPACKFAN if you read this I feel for you! :cry:

[packrulz]

Culpecker, once Moss was traded he pretty much flopped. The viqueens are overated too, when I look at them I feel better about the Packers chances.

[Mazzin]

That ain't no lie. I mean I forgot about him, but still vick is worse.....No one else think he is over rated....better yet. let me pose the ? like this...


Who are your top 3 OVER RATED players. That is better :mrgreen:

[jack's smirking revenge]

1. Michael Vick (agree with you on that one wholeheartedly)
2. Jake Plummer (bye-bye Snake; hello Cutlery)
3. Randy Moss (moving west may have helped his tan, but it didn't help his numbers or his injuries)

I actually think Culpepper will have a decent year in Miami. He's got a great RB in Ronnie Brown, a young, offensive-minded coach in Saban, and Chris Chambers. I definitely could be wrong, but I think, to quote Sheryl Crow, "change will do him good".

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

RB Larry Johnson - I'll probably take heat for this. I know he's good, but a lot of RBs could do what he and Priest have done running behind Shields, Waters, Roaf, etc.

WR Hines Ward - I like him a lot, but I think he's overhyped now. He's a solid receiver, and one of the better ones in the league. But if he were with Green Bay, would he do any better than Donald Driver?

CB Fred Smoot - has never been a shutdown corner, never will be a shutdown corner.

CB Nathan Vasher - a decent starter on any other team.

CB Chris Gamble
:D

[packrulz]

Jeez, I didn't know there'd be a pop quiz. Jk.
1.Culpecker.
2. Reggie Bush. There, I said it. I thought in college he was great but in the pros he might end up being a scat back Warrick Dunn type player. He's sort of small but I wonder if he'll get hurt.
3.Jim Bates. There, I said it. Bates did a great job the one year he was here but as far as I know he isn't coaching at all now but still being paid by the Pack.

[jack's smirking revenge]

RB Larry Johnson - I'll probably take heat for this. I know he's good, but a lot of RBs could do what he and Priest have done running behind Shields, Waters, Roaf, etc.

WR Hines Ward - I like him a lot, but I think he's overhyped now. He's a solid receiver, and one of the better ones in the league. But if he were with Green Bay, would he do any better than Donald Driver?

CB Fred Smoot - has never been a shutdown corner, never will be a shutdown corner.

CB Nathan Vasher - a decent starter on any other team.

CB Chris Gamble
:D

Agreed on Smoot and Gamble. Yes, you sure are going to take heat for the Johnson pick. I think he'll be one of the top fantasy players in 2006. But, hey, props for going out on a limb. Didn't consider defensive players. Top 3 overrated defensive players?

1. Warren Sapp (yes, I supported his coming to GB, only because I think his worst is better than what our best currently is)
2. Grady Jackson and Ted Washington (so what if you're 400 lbs. if you can't move)
3. Chris McCallister (once a Ravens stud, now good for an INT/year)

tyler

[FavreChild]

WR Hines Ward - I like him a lot, but I think he's overhyped now.

Aw, Harv! Personally, I've loved Hines Ward for years and would probably take him over any WR in the league. It IS irritating, however, to hear analysts still tauting players like Ward or Vick as "UNDERrated," as we often heard last season.

But I don't want to debate that. Instead, I'm wondering if you'd care to distinguish between "overrated" and "overhyped?"

[Mazzin]

Yea good point about larry johnson behind that O-line.

[b bulldog]

1. Vick
2. McNabb
3. Favre

[Mazzin]

B bulldog, never seen you around, you a Troll? Who is your favorite team? If not and that is your opinon that is fine also.

[HarveyWallbangers]

B bulldog, never seen you around, you a Troll? Who is your favorite team? If not and that is your opinon that is fine also.

Mazzin,

Here's my description of bulldog:

He's a Packers fan. However, he roots for the team that plays second fiddle to THE Ohio State (Michigan), and he's a big Tom Brady fan. He's very thin skinned about Brady, and thinks that Favre getting good press is somehow disrespectful of Brady. Thus, a good 10-20% of his posts demean Favre in some way.
:D

[Mazzin]

Thank you Harv, you always seem to know whats going on, How do I get "drafted" I.E. your a "trailor rat" and so forth, how did you get that?

[Murphy37]

Thank you Harv, you always seem to know whats going on, How do I get "drafted" I.E. your a "trailor rat" and so forth, how did you get that?

For the love of God woman, don't leave yourself wide open like that. Protect yourself at all times. I'll let it slide this time, but don't bait the others like that. :lol:

[Mazzin]

Okay don't "draft me" haha I gotcha thanks Murph Durph. Well how do I do i get my name....number of days? or something of that matter. Murph Get your brain out the gutter.

[Murphy37]

Okay don't "draft me" haha I gotcha thanks Murph Durph. Well how do I do i get my name....number of days? or something of that matter. Murph Get your brain out the gutter.

I've been tryin for years. It'll take a whole team of therapists.

[Packers4Ever]

B bulldog, never seen you around, you a Troll? Who is your favorite team? If not and that is your opinon that is fine also.

Mazzin,

Here's my description of bulldog:

He's a Packers fan. However, he roots for the team that plays second fiddle to THE Ohio State (Michigan), and he's a big Tom Brady fan. He's very thin skinned about Brady, and thinks that Favre getting good press is somehow disrespectful of Brady. Thus, a good 10-20% of his posts demean Favre in some way.
:D


Thanks for the explanation, Harv - I heard a loud gasp from somewhere in

this room when I read bulldog's 3rd choice !!! :sad: But maybe the poor

man can't help himself...... ??

[b bulldog]

Good info Harv but your take on me not liking positive Favre news cause it may be a negative on Brady is wrong. Brady has done enough as has Favre but some people's views on Brett get quite mundane.

[BlueBrewer]

1. Duante Dilpecker
2. Ron Mexico (Mike Vik)
3. Shawn Alexander

[chain_gang]

I won't put Vick on the list because he is what they say he is, not a great qb, but the most exciting player on the field during the game. That's what they hype up about him, and I agree with that.

Now for my List


1.) Jeremy Shockey- he's a good tight end, but not a great one. In my opinion, he doesn't make the top 5 in the NFL. I have Gates, Heap, McMichael, Gonzalez, Crumpler ahead of him. He's good but not as good as the ones listed above. McMichael will be a lot better this year with a decent QB. Shockey seems to drop too many passes and disappears like every other game.

2.) Antaawn Randle El, He's not a solid receiver, hardly even average. Shouldn't be more than a number 3. The media made him out to be so great this year, but the only highlights he had were gadget plays. He had only 35 recs last season and only 1 td.

3.) Drew Brees, Even before the injury, the guy was a product of the system and had pro bowl workhorse Tomlinson to lean on. Marty Ball opened up his passing game. I predict the saints will regret not drafting Leinart or Cutler over time, with that being by the end of this year. Although they could have a shot at Quinn if Brees falters as bad as I think he will.

That's my list and I'm sticking to it. I could list a few more, but these are my top 3.

[GBRulz]

Eli Manning: Just because his brother can play ball, doesn't mean he can.

I have to agree about Mike Vick though.

[Murphy37]

Diet Pepsi Machine

I really hated that commercial.

[chain_gang]

Diet Pepsi Machine

I really hated that commercial.

Lol, what about the Burger King guy. The King or whatever.

[GBRulz]

Mike Holmgren :wink:

[Mazzin]

Good point girl, Favre MADE Holmgren.

[Guiness]

Vick, and soon to be, Young. I think Young will gain the same adoring fans as Vick did.

Whoever is this year's RB in Denver 8-)

Before last year I would've said Clinton Portis, but he redemed himself with this past campaign.

[Guiness]

2. Grady Jackson and Ted Washington (so what if you're 400 lbs. if you can't move)
tyler

Sorry JSR - Grady and Washington could both move. That's what made them - if all you had to do to hold down a starting NT job in the NFL was be 350+ it certainly wouldn't be a position of need for any team.

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

[Partial]

Big Ben - put any qb in that system behind that line with those receivers and they win the superbowl. He isn't a gun slinger and I am not convinced he can make his teammates better.


KGB - most overrated player in prof. sports


Urlacher - great player don't get me wrong, definitely a pro-bowler, but I think Tommy Harris and his DE's deserved DPOY more than he did.

[jack's smirking revenge]

2. Grady Jackson and Ted Washington (so what if you're 400 lbs. if you can't move)
tyler

Sorry JSR - Grady and Washington could both move. That's what made them - if all you had to do to hold down a starting NT job in the NFL was be 350+ it certainly wouldn't be a position of need for any team.

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think their strength is that they're two-gappers and great at shutting down the run. Neither of them are known for their speed. And, no, other than Grady being injured quite a bit, I don't recall him being a regular presence in the face of QBs. His numbers?

2003-15 games, 6 sacks, 36 tackles
2004-10 games, 1 sack, 17 tackles
2005-16 games, 1 sack, 38 tackles
rate/game: .17 sack, 2.2 tackles

Washington?

2003-10 games, 2 sacks, 32 tackles
2004-16 games, 3 sacks, 33 tackles
2005-16 games, 0 sacks, 37 tackles
rate/game: .11 sack, 2.42 tackles

Green Bay and Oakland both allowed 100+ rushing yards per game to opposing teams in 2005. That can't be solely attributed to Jackson or Washington, but 2 tackles and a sack every 4-5 games doesn't cut it with their experience and talent. Thus, I believe they're overrated.

tyler

[Partial]

Sacks for an NT are misleading. No defensive player in the league was in the Packers backfield last year wreaking havoc than pat williams.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Sacks for an NT are misleading. No defensive player in the league was in the Packers backfield last year wreaking havoc than pat williams.

I agree. I don't really expect an NT to get many sacks. But if the argument involves getting into the face of a QB, then a sack should follow. An NT shouldn't get in the face of a QB and NOT follow through with a sack. If a sack doesn't follow, then either the QB is Mike Vick or Jake the Snake or the NT is just plain sloooooooooooow.

The state of the tackles is what really gets me. If a defense is allowing more than 100 yards rushing a game and the starting NTs are only getting 2 tackes/game, there's something wrong....

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

Lol, what about the Burger King guy. The King or whatever.

Hell No!! He was a playmaker in 2005. Didnt you see all his TDs? He evn played on D and ST. I wish TT could hasve signed him.

Great topic Mazzzin and I agree ron mexico is #1 followed by Kurt Warner.

[AtlPackFan]

Who would you say is the most over-rated player in the NFL? Why?


My Answer: Mike Vick

Why? Because living in Ga. all of everyone I went to school with thought he was the most oustanding player to ever grace the game. I will admit he is fun to watch...RUN...but to watch him throw is just plain ole' painful. HOW DOES THIS MAN MAKE THE PROBOWL...

P.s. ATLPACKFAN if you read this I feel for you! :cry:

Mazzin, I wholeheartedly agree. It's Vick, Vick, Vick!!! I don't give a crap HOW strong his arm is or HOW fast he is. He can't stand in the pocket and win games and defenses have figured out that if you can corral him, keep IN a pocket, he isn't going to beat you...at least not consistent enough to win against good teams. He would probably be an all-star in Canada. Can you imagine him and Ricky on the same team? Awesome! :wink:

[Guiness]

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think their strength is that they're two-gappers and great at shutting down the run. Neither of them are known for their speed. And, no, other than Grady being injured quite a bit, I don't recall him being a regular presence in the face of QBs. His numbers?

tyler

You're right, his numbers are poor, but numbers really don't tell the tale for NTs. As far as last year, I saw a couple of articles talking about how in the Bates system, Grady was expected to hold his ground, and not penetrate. Hence the lack of sacks.

I felt he did other things. He was able to penetrate the backfield and pressure the QB through the middle of the line. I've also seen him draw holding penalties from inside linemen because they wrap an arm around him.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a great player, but he is certainly at least mediocre.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think their strength is that they're two-gappers and great at shutting down the run. Neither of them are known for their speed. And, no, other than Grady being injured quite a bit, I don't recall him being a regular presence in the face of QBs. His numbers?

tyler

You're right, his numbers are poor, but numbers really don't tell the tale for NTs. As far as last year, I saw a couple of articles talking about how in the Bates system, Grady was expected to hold his ground, and not penetrate. Hence the lack of sacks.

I felt he did other things. He was able to penetrate the backfield and pressure the QB through the middle of the line. I've also seen him draw holding penalties from inside linemen because they wrap an arm around him.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a great player, but he is certainly at least mediocre.

I will totally agree with you that he is mediocre. To me, overrated doesn't mean he's worthless; its just that people overvalue him. Grady could be a decent 20-30 snaps/game player for some team. I personally don't think a multi-millionaire defender should play for 10-15 minutes of a game. Someone with that kind of salary demand and self-importance should be on the field as much as possible. I just don't see that with Grady; the more you use him, the less useable he is.

tyler

[Merlin]

Who would you say is the most over-rated player in the NFL? Why?


My Answer: Mike Vick

Why? Because living in Ga. all of everyone I went to school with thought he was the most oustanding player to ever grace the game. I will admit he is fun to watch...RUN...but to watch him throw is just plain ole' painful. HOW DOES THIS MAN MAKE THE PROBOWL...

P.s. ATLPACKFAN if you read this I feel for you! :cry:

I whole heartedly agree with this!!

Michael Vick made the 2004 Probowl and Favre did not:

NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
B. Favre QB, GNB 346 540 64.1 4088 7.57 79 30 5.6 17 3.1 12.0 93 92.4
M. Vick QB, ATL 181 321 56.4 2313 7.21 62 14 4.4 12 3.7 46.0 266 78.1

GIVE ME A BREAK!

[jack's smirking revenge]

To be fair, he didn't make the Pro Bowl in 2004 solely as a QB.

Rushing
Att Yards Avg Long TDs
120 902 7.5 58 3

He almost had 1,000 yds rushing as a QB. Many NFL RBs don't even get that many touches or yards.

tyler

[Mazzin]

Why not play friggin running back or return kicks if you can't throw for a damned?

[Guiness]

Actually, he has a great arm - his throws are impressive. He just doesn't know when to use it.

Cunninham was like that in his early days with Philly. He could draw the D to him, and throw on the run as well as anybody. However, too often he just tucked it away, and took a 3 yard gain.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, he has a great arm - his throws are impressive. He just doesn't know when to use it.

Cunninham was like that in his early days with Philly. He could draw the D to him, and throw on the run as well as anybody. However, too often he just tucked it away, and took a 3 yard gain.

He has a strong arm... not a great arm. He's not very accurate.

At this point, Vick is neither underrated or overrated. He's one of the better players in the league. He's dynamic. He's hard to scheme for. He's also inconsistent and inaccurate. However, his teams win. Win he starts in his career, Atlanta wins. When he doesn't start in his career, they don't win. The win-loss percentage is striking. Anybody who saw him at Lambeau in the regular season or playoffs or at Metrodome against the Vikings a few years ago should realize how dynamic he is. He's a difference maker.

[Guiness]

HW - you're right that Atl does a lot better when he's on the field than off. But I wonder how much of the losing that occurs when he's not there has to do with the way the 'O' is built to suit him?

The OL isn't designed to make a pocket for a prototypical passer. It's designed to roll out and block for him.

Who was that guy that started for Vick when he broke his leg? He was a drop back passer, and didn't have a hope.

[Mazzin]

It was actually Matt Schaub. He is awesome I belive they almost got a 1st or second from someone out there for him...


Also whoever compared Vick to Randall Cunningham. WOW? :roll: