EXTREMELY Deep at OT

[RashanGary]

Preface: Ted Thompson recently said this was a very good year for lineman both at the top and later.


Now this is written by ESPN's John Clayton, but there are a couple NFL execs who are really hyping this OT class






INDIANAPOLIS -- The fascinating part of the 2008 scouting combine is the abundance of offensive tackles. As many as seven tackles -- even those that might need to be converted to the left side -- could be candidates for first-round consideration.


Jake Long of Michigan got the proceedings started Thursday by checking in at 6-foot-7 and 313 pounds. The long arms of Long, plus his 11-inch hands, make him a candidate for the Miami Dolphins' pick at No. 1. Left tackles often are on an island solo blocking an opponent's best pass-rushing defender.

Long arms and great footwork allow the great left tackles to handle those duties without the help of a tight end or a blocking back. For a decade, NFL offenses had the luxury of spreading the field with an extra receiver because left tackles such as Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, William (Tra) Thomas and others sealed off the right-handed quarterbacks' blind side with blocks.

Possible No. 1 overall pick Jake Long thinks he benefitted from playing his senior year at Michigan.

If the prospect ratings hold up come the April 26-27 draft, offenses could replenish one of the most important -- and expensive -- positions.

"It's the best group I've seen in 24 years collectively," said Kevin Colbert, the Pittsburgh Steelers' director of football operations. "It was a good group before the juniors were added to it. Those guys enhanced what we really think is a strong group. The majority of them can play on the left side or play both sides. It's unusual to have that many guys that big and that athletic and that productive."

Long, Chris Williams from Vanderbilt, Jeff Otah of Pitt, Sam Baker of Southern Cal and Gosder Cherilus of Boston College comprised an already impressive class of senior tackles. Each stands between 6-5 and 6-7. Each weighs in excess of 308 pounds.

Then Ryan Clady of Boise State and Anthony Collins of Kansas were added to the mix when the underclassmen declared. Offensive line coaches drooled at the prospects. Clady played left and right tackle in Boise State's creative passing offense. He also seems to have a sense of where he fits in as an NFL tackle.

"We were primarily a zone team, and I'm kind of like a Denver Broncos-type offensive lineman,'' Clady said. "We cut a lot and position block and stuff like that."

Let's see … Broncos left tackle Matt Lepsis retired. You get the picture.

Collins is the sleeper, a bonus tackle in the group. He played basketball in high school and stumbled onto the football team for only his senior year, just to be with his friends. Coming out of high school, he was 6-4, 220 pounds, but Kansas headed a list of colleges interested in him. He ended up playing left and right tackle there.

After checking with an NFL draft advisory committee, Collins learned he had second- and third-round grades. With only 15 hours of classes left for graduation and coming off a 12-1 season, Collins decided to turn pro even though this might be one of the richest tackles classes in NFL history.

"There are a lot of great tackles here, but I feel like I'm one of the best ones," Collins said. "I just have to show it at this combine."

Had NFL teams known there would be this many quality tackles available in 2008, that knowledge might have affected some of the moves in the 2007 draft.

The Indianapolis Colts traded away a 2008 first-round choice for left tackle Tony Ugoh, but they won't look back on that move. To their surprise, Pro Bowl left tackle Tarik Glenn retired before camp opened. Despite some injuries that held him out of five games, Ugoh played the left tackle position without the help of a tight end, allowing Peyton Manning to run his normal offense.

The San Francisco 49ers reached a year ahead of schedule to grab Joe Staley, their left tackle of the future. Staley did well at right tackle and has a year of experience behind him.

Niners general manager Scot McCloughan doesn't look back on the move, even though he might have plucked a higher-graded tackle with what's become the seventh pick in this draft, a selection now owned by the New England Patriots. Staley (the third tackle selected overall in the 2007 draft) and the Colts' Ugoh (the fourth tackle picked) have proven to be wise investments so far for their respective teams.

"When you look at both of those guys and how it played out this year, they were good players and you got bang for the buck where you took them," McCloughan said. "I think this year at tackle, it's one of the better years I've seen probably in 10 years. It will be interesting to see how many of them go in the first and second rounds, but it will be a handful."

That's a Jake Long-sized handful.

What will be interesting to see this week is where Long lands in the draft. New executive vice president of football operations Bill Parcells cleaned house on the Dolphins' offensive line. He hired a head coach, Tony Sparano, who worked his offensive line in Dallas. You see where this is heading.

Long considered turning pro a year ago, but elected to stay at Michigan for his senior season.

Cleveland's Joe Thomas (No. 73), the first left tackle selected in the 2007 draft, made the Pro Bowl roster as a rookie.

"It has helped me a lot," Long said. "Last year, I didn't feel I was good enough to come out. I wanted to improve on things and those things I improved on. I feel I'm a smarter and better player than I was last year. I'm smarter in identifying the defenses. I worked on the little things in my game and I've gotten a lot better."

The Cleveland Browns turned their fortunes around after drafting left tackle Joe Thomas third overall last spring and signing left guard Eric Steinbach last season. Thomas went to the Pro Bowl and Steinbach was a first alternate. Long, who followed Thomas' career after leaving Wisconsin, knows the impact of a good left tackle.

"He's a great player and represents his school in the Big Ten very well," Long said. "He had a great rookie season. I'm going to have to follow in his footsteps and represent the Big Ten. He showed me and all the other rookies that you can come in and make a huge impact."


Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings clearly was the Rookie of the Year, but Thomas made as much of an impact at left tackle in turning around the Browns' offense in a 10-win season.

If you've watched the headlines over the past few days, you've seen the price of tackles escalate. Travelle Wharton of the Carolina Panthers re-signed for $6 million a year. Seattle Seahawks right tackle Sean Locklear signed a five-year, $32 million contract. Over the past two years, six guards received close to $7 million a year, and future star left tackles will go for $8 million to $9 million a year.

Drafting a tackle might not be as exciting as grabbing a top running back or smooth wide receiver. But again, look at Thomas' influence on the Browns in just one season. Clearly the Dolphins, who need everything, will be trying to trade down from the first pick in the draft to acquire more draft choices or veterans.

But in a tackle-rich draft, it's not out of the question for Long to grab top billing. Meanwhile, other offenses will be getting bargains at the position. Good tackles will be available even in the third round.

It's a Long list.

[RashanGary]

This seems like a good draft for CB, DL, OL, TE

I'm reading that it's OK at LB. WR's are OK.

It's not very deep at RB. It's not great at S.


Overall though, this looks like a pretty good draft. TT might have to swing that #1 for a #2 and #3. Seems like we need as many of these talented lineman as we can get.

[RashanGary]

Heath Bennedict seemed to have a good day. He's a bigger guy but they say he can move really well. I guess he's about 330 but big guys can always lose 15 lbs.

[b bulldog]

Big guys can also eat themselves out of the league. :lol:

[RashanGary]

Big guys can also eat themselves out of the league. :lol:

I didn't mean he was overly fat, just big for a zone scheme.

He's 6'5" and 330. That's not fat. I'm sure he could drop 15 lbs though. They say he gets to the 2nd level well which is rare for a guy his size. Me might be a good pick.

[b bulldog]

Just picking Nick 8-)

[RashanGary]

Jake Long is getting a lot of love. Is he as good as the billing in your opinion bulldog?

[b bulldog]

No, I thought Gholston did quite well against him as did the Badger DE who played against him but I think he only gave up one sack so go figure. I think Gholston will be a complete stud in the NFL in a 3/4 scheme. He would be a great fit in Patland if they don't pick a corner.

[RashanGary]

Sounds like he has a hard time getting out of his stance on edge rushers. That's not a good quality for a LT.

[RashanGary]

How about Manningham? He's moving up the boards right now.

[b bulldog]

Take a look at what Ike did to him, he is big jerk who coach Rich is glad to see going to the next level from what I've heard. His best route is a go route and he adjusts very well to the ball when it is in the air but he struggles when corners are as fast as him because he is not physical at all. I think Arrington has a better chance to succeed over Mario. Great college WR but is overrated imo. I love Shawn Crable at the LB position and Henne should be a solid #2 QB, hate his mobility and his slow release.

[RashanGary]

WR's who adjust well to the ball have a funny way of kicking ass in the NFL. Something about tracking and catching the football really translates to success as a pass catcher.

I don't know if I'm going to trust you on him. You just listed what I consider the most important quality in a WR and then said he was overrated.

[b bulldog]

I think Long will get better in the NFL when he cleans up his footwork and the guy has real long arms. I know he i9s very intelligent and he seems to be a team player but I wouldn't take him number one overall. I don't think he is in Thomas' league at all.

[RashanGary]

I think Long will get better in the NFL when he cleans up his footwork and the guy has real long arms. I know he i9s very intelligent and he seems to be a team player but I wouldn't take him number one overall. I don't think he is in Thomas' league at all.

If he can't get out on edge rushers, he's going to have a very hard time in the NFL. Thomas never had that problem.

[b bulldog]

Good point but if you can't disengage from a physical corner, you will have big problems. I think he'd be best in a place like Dallas where he will be helped by the attention TO draws.

[b bulldog]

That is all footwork my friend but like I said, he isn't in Thomas' league.

[RashanGary]

Good point but if you can't disengage from a physical corner, you will have big problems. I think he'd be best in a place like Dallas where he will be helped by the attention TO draws.

Few teams play bump coverage any more. With the rule change, it seems that small WR's have been tearing it up.

[b bulldog]

mario is a headcase, I've watched enough UM games and he does get in trouble some as he did this past offseason. When a coach doesn't mind losing a talent like Mario, that says a great deal.

[b bulldog]

True but if they know a wr struggles to disengage, DC's will do what works.

[b bulldog]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

[b bulldog]

mario also isn't known as being a precise route runner.

[RashanGary]

I'm reading up on him. Wow!

Everythign about him is skill, savvy and talent. He's fast, runs great routes and his best asset is his knack for adjusting to the football.


Maybe he's a headcase. I'll buy that, but it sounds like he's a superstud talent.

He looks like one of the rare, dynamic playmakers out there.

[b bulldog]

Runs greAT routes, all he runs is sideline routes or simple flys. You take him all you want but I don't like him at the next level. I 'm not big on small, finese headcases, who run fast.

[RashanGary]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

Maybe, but all of this kids skills are the ones that seem to translate to the NFL. His write up reads like a 6'0" Randy Moss. He lulls defenders to sleep with his routes. He's deceptively fast. He adjusts perfeclty to deep throws.

He sounds like one of the rare mega skilled WR's in the game, bulldog. Seriously, his strengths are all things that make a WR great. Some WR's are big and that's it. Screw that. I'll take a stud who knows how to get open, catches the ball and has burners to boot.

[RashanGary]

Runs greAT routes, all he runs is sideline routes or simple flys. You take him all you want but I don't like him at the next level. I 'm not big on small, finese headcases, who run fast.

Small finesse head cases that catch everything, run perfect routes, lull defenders to sleep with their savvy, adjust to everything thrown to him, goes up and gets jump balls and has burners to boot.

OK. He's quicky turning into one of the players I think the most of in this draft.

[b bulldog]

I think this is pretty accurate
Pros-Great deep threat with 4.48 speed. Can stretch the field and create separation and can make the catch. Is fluid and is good at the jump balls.

Cons-Small for a NFL wr by height and weight. He will need to add weight to even be a number two WR in the NFL. hAS TROUBLE GETTING SEPARATion against press coverage and does not have a good arsenal of routes and doesn't run the NFL style routes with any consistency.

[b bulldog]

Nick, how many games have you seen him play?

[RashanGary]

I think this is pretty accurate
Pros-Great deep threat with 4.48 speed. Can stretch the field and create separation

bulldog, you jsut said he has a knack for going and getting the football. YOu can't teach that. Look at how many WR's have it all but fail because they don't know how to get open or can't catch the ball.

This kid is lauded for lulling defenders to sleep with his savvy (and/or instinct), catching the ball, tracking the ball and being an all around superstud at buring teams deep and going up for jump balls.

If these people who write these things up have any ability to make observation, this guy is a freaking stud.

[b bulldog]

I guess we can see who is correct on this one in a few years. Greg jennings is a much better WR than he will ever be imo but that is just an opinion.

[b bulldog]

You don't note the cons :lol:

[RashanGary]

Just the highlights bulldog.

He's one of my favorite players in this draft right now. I think he's special.

[Bretsky]

Just the highlights bulldog.

He's one of my favorite players in this draft right now. I think he's special.


Definitely better than Ruvell Martin

[BallHawk]

Just the highlights bulldog.

He's one of my favorite players in this draft right now. I think he's special.


Definitely better than Ruvell Martin

What?!?!?!? :shock:

[Bretsky]

Just the highlights bulldog.

He's one of my favorite players in this draft right now. I think he's special.


Definitely better than Ruvell Martin

What?!?!?!? :shock:


figured that'd get your attention :lol: :lol: :lol:

[RashanGary]

Everythign I read about him and see of him, he's a cross between Ted Ginn JR and Greg Jennings.

He's got the natural feel and skill of Jennings with the talent and game breaking ability of Ginn. Maybe he's not quite as fast as Ginn, but he's a lot closer than Jennings. Very few players are as skilled as he is without the speed, but he adds game breaking speed on top of it.

[b bulldog]

Why did you ask my opinion anyway, you have yours and you've probably seen him play 2 games in his entire college career. Stay with the highlights and I'll stick with both the pros and the cons and who knows, you may end up being totally correct on him. In closing, one of the best things I can say to support my distaste for him is that Coach Rodriguez was not unhappy at all to see him leave UM cause he is a selfish player who basicly can only run two routes AND AS OF NOW, THE CUPBOARDS ARE NOT OVERFLOWING WITH TALENT IN ANN ARBOR.

[Bretsky]

Great talent IMO but he was not consistent at all. I was at the Badger game; he had us beat deep a couple times but the QB's just missed the pass.

What round is he projected to go in ?

Definitely not as good of a college player as Chris Chambers

[b bulldog]

1st rounder

[b bulldog]

I'd be happy as all get out if we picked him in round 2 if we needed a wr but many mock's have him going to the Cowboys with their first, first rounder.

[Bretsky]

1st rounder

Is he really; I was thinking round 2-3 is where he should go

[b bulldog]

Hell must be freezing over, I'm arguing against a UM player :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

More talent? That would be subjective at best..and struggling. Again, highly subjective.

Who has struggled?

Breaston wasn't drafted as WR by the Cards..returner and he did quite well. Not as talented.

Avant was a 4th rounder. 23 catches last year..17 yard average. Decent for a 4th rounder. Consistent special teamer as well. Despite winning Biletnikoff is wasn't as talented as MM.

Braylon looked great this year. He is a STAR.

M. Walker. Got hurt. And was never fast. Big, good body control..long strider. Hence the 3rd round selection. Not as talented as MM.

David terrell. Busto.

Tai Streets. 6th round pick. Not anywhere near as talented. Played 6 seasons. By any standards that is successful for a sixth.

How far do you want me to go? Your statement off base by a mile.

[Bretsky]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

More talent? That would be subjective at best..and struggling. Again, highly subjective.

Who has struggled?

Breaston wasn't drafted as WR by the Cards..returner and he did quite well. Not as talented.

Avant was a 4th rounder. 23 catches last year..17 yard average. Decent for a 4th rounder. Consistent special teamer as well. Despite winning Biletnikoff is wasn't as talented as MM.

Braylon looked great this year. He is a STAR.

M. Walker. Got hurt. And was never fast. Big, good body control..long strider. Hence the 3rd round selection. Not as talented as MM.

David terrell. Busto.

Tai Streets. 6th round pick. Not anywhere near as talented. Played 6 seasons. By any standards that is successful for a sixth.

How far do you want me to go? Your statement off base by a mile.


I viewed David Terrell as a much better player going into the pros. But from the sounds of it he was an immature punk

[b bulldog]

Tai Streets was injured and that was why he lasted as long as he did. If he was healthy, he would have probably been at worst a second round pick. Avant and BreaSty are special teamers, I wouldn't count those guys. Braylon is his third year had a break out year, before this year, many thought he may be a bust. terrell was another WR who was thought to be a stud and was a dud. Streets if he remained healthy had as much talent as MM imo and Edwards and Terrell had much moe talent, one was a bust and one has had one good year so far.

[b bulldog]

Same thing some at UM have stated about MM

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

More talent? That would be subjective at best..and struggling. Again, highly subjective.

Who has struggled?

Breaston wasn't drafted as WR by the Cards..returner and he did quite well. Not as talented.

Avant was a 4th rounder. 23 catches last year..17 yard average. Decent for a 4th rounder. Consistent special teamer as well. Despite winning Biletnikoff is wasn't as talented as MM.

Braylon looked great this year. He is a STAR.

M. Walker. Got hurt. And was never fast. Big, good body control..long strider. Hence the 3rd round selection. Not as talented as MM.

David terrell. Busto.

Tai Streets. 6th round pick. Not anywhere near as talented. Played 6 seasons. By any standards that is successful for a sixth.

How far do you want me to go? Your statement off base by a mile.


I viewed David Terrell as a much better player going into the pros. But from the sounds of it he was an immature punk

Terrell was definitely rated higher...went 8th. Good size and speed. But, definitely immature.

Funny thing, for as "bad" as he was...still played 6 years in the NFL.

And, when he played a whole season..he put up some #s. 34, 43, 42 catches in 16 games with bears...12, 8, 16 average per catch. But, was never a TD machine.

I don't wanna make excuses for him..but, it was the bears. Changes at HC and OC and NINE QBs. NINE!!!!

[b bulldog]

TERRELL was helped in school by very good talent around him and that he was going against college db's.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tai Streets was injured and that was why he lasted as long as he did. If he was healthy, he would have probably been at worst a second round pick. Avant and BreaSty are special teamers, I wouldn't count those guys. Braylon is his third year had a break out year, before this year, many thought he may be a bust. terrell was another WR who was thought to be a stud and was a dud. Streets if he remained healthy had as much talent as MM imo and Edwards and Terrell had much moe talent, one was a bust and one has had one good year so far.

You are now backtracking. The point was that they were more talented and struggled.

Streets: Yes, he had an achilles, but he came back and played and didn't stuggle. Wrong.

Braylon: Receiver is very hard to do well in your first year. I think 32 catches in 10 games is just fine. And, 61 catches the following year with 6 TDs is showing progress. The only people saying bust were idiots that don't understand football...as he didn't have a decent QB till last year. But, again...you are WRONG. He didn't struggle.

So, you have one receiver that didn't make it as talented. Sorry, that doesn't make your argument. And, even Terrell when playing didn't struggle. His stats bely your statement. Was he a bust for where he was picked. Sure. by 32 catches his rookie year is good. Especially when you consider his Qbs that year were Shane Mathews and Jim Miller. LOL

In 03 they had at starter Kordel, Chris Chandler and Rex. Pretty hard for any WR to do well with that bunch.

In 04 they trotted out Krenzel (Oh my fucking god), Chad Hutchinson (oh my fucking god), and Jonathan Quinn (OMFG), and Rex.

I'm no apologist but Rice woulda had a hard time catching 60 balls from that motley crew.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

TERRELL was helped in school by very good talent around him and that he was going against college db's.

College dbs..is that different than other college WRs? Do they go against pro Db's.

Are you trying to argue now that he wasn't as good as he appeared? that would go against your premise.

[b bulldog]

No my point was althopugh he was talented, playing against subpar talent in college probably made him look like an elite wr when truely he wasn't but I still think Streets, Edwards and Terrell were much more gifted as WR's than MM and one of these three players has had a good season so I wouldn't say that I'm wrong at all.

[b bulldog]

Streets didn't STRUGGLE?? Many thought he was going to be a steal for the 49ers when he was drafted and he had a lousey NFL career from what his expectations were in Ann Arbor.

Edwards was thought to be a stud WR and he finally has had one good year this paast year. Many in the NFL were calling him a bust until last season as were many in here. i'd say he 's ben a disappointment from where he was picked and to change that he needs to have another strong year this year.

Terrell, he has had stints in denver and New England also, he ius a huuuuuge bust.

Say what you may but I think your wrong :lol: and Bretsky even has chided me about the lack of production of UM skill players at the NFL.

[b bulldog]

oNE MORE THING, MM HAS ONLY had one season where he had over 1000 yards recieving at UM, many michigan wr's have done that.

[Joemailman]

Big guys can also eat themselves out of the league. :lol:

We'll call him Heath "Ham And Eggs" Bennedict. :D

[b bulldog]

Marquise Wlker, derrick Aleaxander, David Terrell, Desmond Howard, Tai Streets, Braylon Edwards have all had pretty big careers at UM as did MM even though he has only had one 1000 yard season. All of these players at the WR postion have been busts except for Edwards and he has averaged 55 catches, 880 yards and 8 tds a season in three years of playing NFL ball. He has accomplished this being the 3rd overall pick in the NFL draft, I do not call that great by no means, kind of disappointing actually.

This just shows that many UM WR's that have had the same type of careers at UM as MM has had, have been flops in the NFL. :lol:

[RashanGary]

Manningham ran a 4.59

Clearly not a blazer. Makes you wonder how he got so open so often in College.

[RashanGary]

Aqib Talib ran a 4.51

He's supposed to be a hellofa CB. It would be nice if some teams pass him over because of his speed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Streets didn't STRUGGLE?? Many thought he was going to be a steal for the 49ers when he was drafted and he had a lousey NFL career from what his expectations were in Ann Arbor.

Edwards was thought to be a stud WR and he finally has had one good year this paast year. Many in the NFL were calling him a bust until last season as were many in here. i'd say he 's ben a disappointment from where he was picked and to change that he needs to have another strong year this year.

Terrell, he has had stints in denver and New England also, he ius a huuuuuge bust.

Say what you may but I think your wrong :lol: and Bretsky even has chided me about the lack of production of UM skill players at the NFL.

Wow. Talk about switching your argument. Now, it is the EXPECTATIONS from Ann Arbor. Not that they would be...unrealistic or anything. :roll:

I question now whether you can even read and comprehend as I said Terrell was a bust.

First, EVERYONE knows that very few WRs make an impact their rookie year. It is one of the hardest positions to make an impact.

Streets didn't struggle. He grabbed the 3rd receiver and then was the #2. That isn't struggling. While he might live up to expectations, that isn't struggling. You keep saying that he was injured and that if not he woulda been a second. So, if he was injured, why isn't that taken into account for his production? You are ridiculous. The problem with you is you are completely oblivious to reality. Tai streets after the injury was not fast. He was a big, long striding possesion receiver. You keep trying to make it out like he was a 2nd..sorry, he was 6th. And, if teams really thought he could be more..they woulda drafted him higher...it didn't stop Magahee. He ran a 4.55 before the draft. Are you kidding me? That isn't a superstar.

I've gone thru this already, and you are wrong. Either they weren't as talented..or they didn't struggle.

And,no matter how many times you say it..nobody thought Edwards was a bust. They may have felt he could do better. But, 60 catches and 6 tds in his second year isn't a bust.

You are so ridiculous...edwards #s are basically the same as jennings in his rookie year..ratio wise.

And, while players had good careers at UM that is COLLEGE. Clearly the NFL evaluators didn't buy into the UM hype or cool names like Mercury Hayes. Take off your blue and gold glasses. Just because they play for UM and got tv exposure doens't mean they were all great.

The problem for UM was that they liked the big WRs..Walker, Terrell, Streets..but, exept for Terrell they weren't fast. Walker was a 3rd round pick because he was "criticized for his lack of straight-line speed and ability to gain separation without using his other physical skills. He also was fighting the notion that he is merely a possession receiver." POSSESSION RECEIVER.

And, since he was like most UM WRs..he didn't/couldn't play ST, which is crucial if you aren't a starter. Regardless, he was nowhere near the talent MM has.

Just like I could say that Donald Hayes and Tony Simmons had great UW careers and didn't pan out. Has no relevance.

Bottom line: The problem for UM receivers for the most part is that you guys ran such a simplistic offense that your receivers struggle to learn a pro style offense. Walker was quickly outted on that by Gruden. Embarrassed him in front of fans, media and his teammates..when he couldn't give the correct formations and routes when gruden barked the plays.

BTW, i love how you bring up all the UM receivers...LOL. Convenient to leave out Toomer and AC. If you bring up Desmond you should at least bring up toomer.

[b bulldog]

THIRD PICK IN THE DRAFT AND 800 YARDS A YEAR IS GREAT, YOUR EITHER CRAZY OR JUST PLAIN STUPID. The only wr who has exceeded expectations from UM is Anthoney Carter while UM has had 4 college All-American Wr's, that is better than MM and three have flopped and one has had one good year in three years. Your wrong as usual and my facts point that out. It makes my day when the facts clearly show you wrong. :lol:

[b bulldog]

Amani Toomer for a second round pick has done what one would think a second rounder would do, nothing more, nothing less. He had ssome pretty good seasons and some pretty bad seasons.

[b bulldog]

Actually Um has usually had one bigger WR and also one smaller WR to make a pretty good pair.

[b bulldog]

expectations where they are drafted :oops: :roll: Third overall pick and his third season he finally does something. I know very well if that happened here in GB the fans would be disappointed by the start of the third season.

[RashanGary]

McFadden ran 4.28
Mendenhall ran 4.37

Stuart had a 4.44


All of them showed up today. I could easily see them all going in the top 12 picks. I think they're all very good runners. I like Mendenhall the best.

[b bulldog]

I like Stuart the best but all three are very good prospects but they'll drop as RB's usually do due to their short shelf life.

[b bulldog]

Are you still on the MM bandwagon?

[b bulldog]

PFT.com is reporting that MM ran a 4.68 and did lousey in his interviews.

[RashanGary]

Are you still on the MM bandwagon?

From what I read and the little I see, I think he has a knack for the WR position. Jerry Rice wasn't very big or incredibly fast, but he knew how to set up defenders, run routes and catch the ball.

I think the deep passes to MM were more a result of his deceptive route running and great ball skills than it was because of his great speed.


Yes, I do think he's going to be a good WR. Not Jerry Rice of course, but I don't think he's somehow less of a player than what he showed on film because of his numbers.

[b bulldog]

I'm glad to see his time in the 40 didn't scare you off but his attitude with his physical limitations should.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

expectations where they are drafted :oops: :roll: Third overall pick and his third season he finally does something. I know very well if that happened here in GB the fans would be disappointed by the start of the third season.

60 catches and 6 tds in his soph year. That is good. Get over it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

THIRD PICK IN THE DRAFT AND 800 YARDS A YEAR IS GREAT, YOUR EITHER CRAZY OR JUST PLAIN STUPID. The only wr who has exceeded expectations from UM is Anthoney Carter while UM has had 4 college All-American Wr's, that is better than MM and three have flopped and one has had one good year in three years. Your wrong as usual and my facts point that out. It makes my day when the facts clearly show you wrong. :lol:

Dude, he was INJURED. He played 10 games. Are you suggesting that his lack of talent or struggling was the cause of his injury.

Your statement was about TALENT and STRUGGLING. The fact is that your receivers haven't been that TALENTED.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Actually Um has usually had one bigger WR and also one smaller WR to make a pretty good pair.

Really, then you haven't been following UM football. They haven't had a small receiver in years. Terrell, Walker, Streets, Toomer, MM, AA, etc. all six or over.

Hayes was your smallest receiver in the past 10 years. And, he was five eleven.

My god, you follow the team and you don't even know your own players.

[b bulldog]

Breaston was 6', 180 :oops:
Mario Manningham 6' 180 :oops:
Ron Bellamy 6' 190 :oops:

The small to average WR'S at UM in the last 8 years or so. :lol:

[b bulldog]

In todays NFL, 6' is not big, and if your around 180 lbs your small. I'll quote you a con on MM. "HE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH IN HEIGHT OR WEIGHT"

[b bulldog]

Once again, you have no facts to back up your comments. Time for me to move on :lol:

[RashanGary]

"HE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH IN HEIGHT OR WEIGHT"

Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith
Wes Welker

Three of the best in the game. Three of the smallest in the game.

There are just as many shorter WR's who can change direction quickly and make things happen after the catch are there are big tall guys with success.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

"HE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH IN HEIGHT OR WEIGHT"

Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith
Wes Welker

S. Moss
Jennings

[RashanGary]

I think height is important at OT and with press CB's. Other than that, I think height is very overrated in football.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Breaston was 6', 180 :oops:
Mario Manningham 6' 180 :oops:
Ron Bellamy 6' 190 :oops:

The small to average WR'S at UM in the last 8 years or so. :lol:

Do you read? I said six and above. So, the only one that should be embarrassed is you.

That is average size. Big is like six two and above. Or are you now gonna argue that Bernard Berrian is small at six one.

Small is like Desean Jackson, Kelley Washington, sinorice and santana moss, steve smith, santonio holmes, brandon williams, etc..

BTW, i thought we weren't counting Breaston since he was KR? Let's at least try to stay consistent.

Do i have to make you look more like a fool?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think height is important at OT and with press CB's. Other than that, I think height is very overrated in football.

I think its important for QB to. Not many short QB have been successful, although their has been a few.

[The Leaper]

I think height is important at OT and with press CB's. Other than that, I think height is very overrated in football.

Height is very important at the QB position IMO. Being able to see and throw over your OL is a huge advantage. You can still be successful as a six foot even QB, but you will need more help IMO to be successful.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think height is important at OT and with press CB's. Other than that, I think height is very overrated in football.

Height is very important at the QB position IMO. Being able to see and throw over your OL is a huge advantage. You can still be successful as a six foot even QB, but you will need more help IMO to be successful.

been a long time since a six foot qb was successful. Can't even recall one.

Who was? Is Garcia that small?

[The Leaper]

been a long time since a six foot qb was successful. Can't even recall one.

Yeah, you are right.

Garcia is 6-1...so he's on the shorter side. 6-4 is probably the average for a starting QB right now.

You've got quite a few around 6-2 but not too many go below that. Any QB at 6-2 or shorter going forward will probably find it tough sledding with all the 6'8" behemoths on the OL.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

been a long time since a six foot qb was successful. Can't even recall one.

Yeah, you are right.

Garcia is 6-1...so he's on the shorter side. 6-4 is probably the average for a starting QB right now.

You've got quite a few around 6-2 but not too many go below that. Any QB at 6-2 or shorter going forward will probably find it tough sledding with all the 6'8" behemoths on the OL.

I think you can be short, but you better have some amazing gifts like Mike Vick.

Though, everytime they talk about QBs they discount the huge line thing by saying they dont' throw over lineman..they throw thru alleys. So, i don't quite understand the short thing..unless it really means you can't see over linebackers or something like that.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

[Partial]

This is a good draft. Lots of talent.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

You are correct.

I like brees, but he hasn't really accomplished much. His career has been very spotty.

[GoPackGo]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

You are correct.

I like brees, but he hasn't really accomplished much. His career has been very spotty.

The Chargers would have won a Superbowl if they still had Drew Brees. He is a damn good QB and I'd be happy to have in in Green Bay.

[woodbuck27]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

You are correct.

I like brees, but he hasn't really accomplished much. His career has been very spotty.

The Chargers would have won a Superbowl if they still had Drew Brees. He is a damn good QB and I'd be happy to have in in Green Bay.

Yes.

Would anybody scream over a straight up swap of Brees for Aaron Rodgers?

Ohhh I know. We really havn't seen Aaron play yet, even though we have. :D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

You are correct.

I like brees, but he hasn't really accomplished much. His career has been very spotty.

The Chargers would have won a Superbowl if they still had Drew Brees. He is a damn good QB and I'd be happy to have in in Green Bay.

How quickly you forget the bad seasons he had there.

Win the SP? Maybe, but with or without him they still have problems at WR, Dline, and safety.

That is a big supposition my friend.

[b bulldog]

Sorry Tyrone but once again you look like your wrong. You can say 6' and above all you want but the truth is in todays NFL, your considered small if your 6', 180lbs and play wr. This was the reason why people are dropping quotes like his height and weight are too small and will hinder him at this next level. :oops: If you need quotes on this, I'll get them for you just to prove I'm right again. :lol:

[Bretsky]

Brees I think is only 6-0.

You are correct.

I like brees, but he hasn't really accomplished much. His career has been very spotty.

The Chargers would have won a Superbowl if they still had Drew Brees. He is a damn good QB and I'd be happy to have in in Green Bay.

How quickly you forget the bad seasons he had there.

Win the SP? Maybe, but with or without him they still have problems at WR, Dline, and safety.

That is a big supposition my friend.


Chambers really helps that WR core; they still need more WR help. But with the best receiving TE when healthy in the NFL in Gates, a solid WR in Chambers, and an improving WR in Vincent Jackson they are going the right way. There are worse WR'ing cores out there than San Diego.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sorry Tyrone but once again you look like your wrong. You can say 6' and above all you want but the truth is in todays NFL, your considered small if your 6', 180lbs and play wr. This was the reason why people are dropping quotes like his height and weight are too small and will hinder him at this next level. :oops: If you need quotes on this, I'll get them for you just to prove I'm right again. :lol:

Ok, if six is small, what size are the moss brothers at five nine. My god, how can you just ignore reality?

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are BIG receviers and there are small receivers.

Bulldog, i've spanked you enough. Your point, which you've switched now a couple of times, was about talent and struggling.

First, i proved that the players didn't have the talent as compared to MM (of course that was prior to discovering he PERHAPS didnt' have the talent)..sorry, but slow big receivers aren't the same as supposed fast ones. And, that they didn't struggle. You equate being injured as struggling.

It is laughable to watch you twist and squirm.

[b bulldog]

Just like when you said Brady hasn't played well in his last 7 playoff games and that Pryor wasn't considered the best prospect this year, the Packers having the same talent level as the Chargers and now this :lol:

[b bulldog]

Like I said, these talent evaluators are the ones calling MM small and he is 6', 180. My point from the begin :lol: ning was dead on, UM WR's with better talent in college have done little in the NFL. Facts are facts,

[GoPackGo]

Like I said, these talent evaluators are the ones calling MM small and he is 6', 180. My point from the begin :lol: ning was dead on, UM WR's with better talent in college have done little in the NFL. Facts are facts,

If MM is anything like Braylon Edwards he would be a steal at #30

[b bulldog]

Annoyed by partial?? Partial is a good guy

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just like when you said Brady hasn't played well in his last 7 playoff games and that Pryor wasn't considered the best prospect this year, the Packers having the same talent level as the Chargers and now this :lol:

wow. you sure have a poor memory. Brady hasn't played well in All of his last 7 games. Perhaps you missed the superbowl. I never said every game, i listed specific games.

Pryor. Um, that isn't what i said. You said he was "can't miss" and i said find one scout or coach that used that term. You couldn't.

I am more than aware that he is the top recruit. It is on every
board. But, no college scout ever said "can't miss."

It is quite sad the way you distort the truth. Do i need to find the exact posts and let everyone see how you are quickly descending into woody/merlin territory?

BTW, when did i ever compare the pack talent to the chargers?

[Lurker64]

This is a good draft. Lots of talent.

Can anybody recall a draft that this couldn't be said about? I'm sure that there are certainly drafts that are stronger than others, particularly at the elite ranks and particularly at certain positions, but there's generally a lot of talent, it's just not usually evenly distributed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This is a good draft. Lots of talent.

Can anybody recall a draft that this couldn't be said about? I'm sure that there are certainly drafts that are stronger than others, particularly at the elite ranks and particularly at certain positions, but there's generally a lot of talent, it's just not usually evenly distributed.

Actually back in 73 the draft was terrible. Most teams just passed. I think only 2 players made anybodies roster.