McGinn--"Packers Declined to offer Wahle a Contract

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=721829

[gbpackfan]

It's also been reported that Wahle hit the wall last season. I read that he was a "stiff." Still, I would like to get FA guard to fill in at LG. We have to get these G positions locked down.

[Farley Face]

It's also been reported that Wahle hit the wall last season. I read that he was a "stiff." Still, I would like to get FA guard to fill in at LG. We have to get these G positions locked down.

The fact that they were even considering Wahle is an indictment in my opinion to all our young guys. If the mantra is to develop from within and we like our young core of players, why do we even consider Wahle?

This tells me that between the logjam of Spitz, Colledge, Coston, Palmer, Barbre and Moll we still don't have two players we believe are ready to be quality starters. These guys are all still young and some project more at tackle than guard, but I'm still a bit surprised an aging, potential "stiff" would be a more attractive alternative.

[KYPack]

It's also been reported that Wahle hit the wall last season. I read that he was a "stiff." Still, I would like to get FA guard to fill in at LG. We have to get these G positions locked down.

The fact that they were even considering Wahle is an indictment in my opinion to all our young guys. If the mantra is to develop from within and we like our young core of players, why do we even consider Wahle?

This tells me that between the logjam of Spitz, Colledge, Coston, Palmer, Barbre and Moll we still don't have two players we believe are ready to be quality starters. These guys are all still young and some project more at tackle than guard, but I'm still a bit surprised an aging, potential "stiff" would be a more attractive alternative.

Farley, I think Thompson agrees with you. The article states "This is the second time that Thompson didn't act to have Wahle. If the Packers had made a lucrative offer, it's possible Wahle would have visited Green Bay first and signed almost on the spot.

"I think he would have been a nice addition but it didn't work out," Thompson said. "We do stuff like that all the time and it doesn't work out.

"They were kind of in a position where I think they had to make a choice, and they made a choice. It's just got to be a fit for everybody. That one just didn't quite work out."


Thompson doesn't want an aging vet to come in and steal reps from this group. He wants to see the vets and Barbre fight it out. Any new faces will come from the draft. TT wants to get his two guards from that pond, not from a 31 yr old vet playing out the string.

Whale is happy, too. He moves back to the left coast with Walter Jones playing to his left. He gets his last payday and can plan his retirement in peace.

[Farley Face]

It's also been reported that Wahle hit the wall last season. I read that he was a "stiff." Still, I would like to get FA guard to fill in at LG. We have to get these G positions locked down.

The fact that they were even considering Wahle is an indictment in my opinion to all our young guys. If the mantra is to develop from within and we like our young core of players, why do we even consider Wahle?

This tells me that between the logjam of Spitz, Colledge, Coston, Palmer, Barbre and Moll we still don't have two players we believe are ready to be quality starters. These guys are all still young and some project more at tackle than guard, but I'm still a bit surprised an aging, potential "stiff" would be a more attractive alternative.

Farley, I think Thompson agrees with you. The article states "This is the second time that Thompson didn't act to have Wahle. If the Packers had made a lucrative offer, it's possible Wahle would have visited Green Bay first and signed almost on the spot.

"I think he would have been a nice addition but it didn't work out," Thompson said. "We do stuff like that all the time and it doesn't work out.

"They were kind of in a position where I think they had to make a choice, and they made a choice. It's just got to be a fit for everybody. That one just didn't quite work out."


Thompson doesn't want an aging vet to come in and steal reps from this group. He wants to see the vets and Barbre fight it out. Any new faces will come from the draft. TT wants to get his two guards from that pond, not from a 31 yr old vet playing out the string.

Whale is happy, too. He moves back to the left coast with Walter Jones playing to his left. He gets his last payday and can plan his retirement in peace.

Good point, I'm just a tad frustrated with the current state at guard considering our investments made at the position (a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 2 5th round draft picks at this position).

As a forrmer stockbroker and hoarder of draft picks, TT can't be satisfied with his ROI at the guard position.

[PackerBlues]

Last off season, I was one of the guys bitching like crazy about how pathetic I thought the guard position was for the Packers. To this day Thompson still talks about his inability to make that position as strong as it was before he let Wahle and Rivera go. Now, don't take this the wrong way, because this is not an "I told you so" post (I do understand the cap position the team was in at the time), but fact of the matter is, the Packers went 13-3 last season with what I would consider to be one of the shittiest interior O-lines in the league, and anyone who does not think that Favre made these guys look better than what they were by getting rid of the ball quickly, and avoiding the sack, can kiss my ass.

In my eyes, Thompson is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I mean, what does he do? I think he will lean towards giving the guys he has in place a chance to improve .............. but can he afford to do that? The simple solution would be to sign a veteran player. But what does that say about the guys he has signed since 2005?

As much as I would really love to see Thompson go all out to sign at least one veteran free agent to improve the position .............. I think that he will more than likely end up picking a guard in the draft to challenge the guys he has in place already, for a starting position.

Again, IMO, Thompson is in a unique position this year. The team is in great shape, and is already set up to be a contender for the playoffs at the very least. He can either come out swinging in free agency, or he can sit on his cap space and simply improve the teams depth through the draft. Considering how good the team is already, I am going to be a wee bit pissed off if Thompson does not show some balls in free agency this year. While we do have Thompson to thank for the great position the team is in right now, neither Thompson or anyone else should ignore the fact that the Packers have some aging players in key positions. That is something that we all talked about last year, and I am sure that Thompson is well aware of it.

The rebuilding is done! This is the year that Thompson should go all out to send our team to the big game............. what will he do though?

[The Leaper]

If Thompson signs a FA, it won't be someone on the wrong side of 30 unless they are a very good fit.

[Patler]

McGinn seems to have an awful lofty opinion of Wahle, stating:


From 2001-'04, Wahle performed as well if not better than any guard in Green Bay since Gale Gillingham's career wound down in the early 1970s.

Seems somewhat unfair to Marco Rivera, a Pro-Bowl selection in 2002, 2003 and 2004. It is also inconsistent with his own grading of Wahle, which lagged behind Rivera in the early years. In 2001, he only gave Wahle a "C-plus". I suspect Timmerman and Taylor performed as well as Wahle did in 2001 and 2002. In 2003 he seemed to catch Rivera and probably was better than Rivera in 2004, mostly due to Rivera's injuries. I'm not sure that Wahle's best year in GB, probably 2004, was as good or better than Rivera's best years. Wahle is such a perfect looking athlete for the position that I think sometimes he is given more credit than a guy like Rivera who isn't as smooth in his performance, but always managed to get the job done.

Wahle didn't become a Pro-Bowl player until his contract made him a celebrity, not that the Pro-Bowl isn't about reputation as much as performance anyway. However, when Rivera made it he didn't have that type of promotion. He just scratched and clawed his way to earn the respect of the voters.

Wahle had 4 good solid seasons in GB, during which he got better and better. His best in 2003-2004 were pretty darn good, I admit. Luckily for him he hit his prime and had his best performances leading into a critical contract year.

[KYPack]

McGinn seems to have an awful lofty opinion of Wahle, stating:


From 2001-'04, Wahle performed as well if not better than any guard in Green Bay since Gale Gillingham's career wound down in the early 1970s.

Seems somewhat unfair to Marco Rivera, a Pro-Bowl selection in 2002, 2003 and 2004. It is also inconsistent with his own grading of Wahle, which lagged behind Rivera in the early years. In 2001, he only gave Wahle a "C-plus". I suspect Timmerman and Taylor performed as well as Wahle did in 2001 and 2002. In 2003 he seemed to catch Rivera and probably was better than Rivera in 2004, mostly due to Rivera's injuries. I'm not sure that Wahle's best year in GB, probably 2004, was as good or better than Rivera's best years. Wahle is such a perfect looking athlete for the position that I think sometimes he is given more credit than a guy like Rivera who isn't as smooth in his performance, but always managed to get the job done.

Wahle didn't become a Pro-Bowl player until his contract made him a celebrity, not that the Pro-Bowl isn't about reputation as much as performance anyway. However, when Rivera made it he didn't have that type of promotion. He just scratched and clawed his way to earn the respect of the voters.

Wahle had 4 good solid seasons in GB, during which he got better and better. His best in 2003-2004 were pretty darn good, I admit. Luckily for him he hit his prime and had his best performances leading into a critical contract year.

Marco was the better guard of the two. Wahle could (& still does) have trouble with the stronger bull rushers. Marco was a mauler and a real enforcer. Wahle really shined on some of those pulling plays, but he had trouble against some DT's. Marco could basically hold his own against all comers.

That was a great line. We should have done better with that crew blocking for Green and Brett.

[Patler]

Marco was the better guard of the two. Wahle could (& still does) have trouble with the stronger bull rushers. Marco was a mauler and a real enforcer. Wahle really shined on some of those pulling plays, but he had trouble against some DT's. Marco could basically hold his own against all comers.

That was a great line. We should have done better with that crew blocking for Green and Brett.

That has always been my opinion. I would take Rivera over Wahle at their best, and for the longevity that Rivera had. Wahle really had about 2 or 3 top years. Maybe even less. He was insignificant until 2001, improved thereafter through 2003, peaked in 2004 and maybe 2005. In 2006 he was hurt some, but already comments were that he was not what he had been. That continued in 2007. I'm sure he still has a few years left to help the Seahawks, but overall his career is a good one, not a great one.

I wonder if Carolina thinks they got a good return on their investment in him? Three seasons, 45 games and something like $16 million paid to him in salaries and bonuses.

[PackerBlues]

I wonder if Carolina thinks they got a good return on their investment in him? Three seasons, 45 games and something like $16 million paid to him in salaries and bonuses.

I would throw out the fact that he went to the pro bowl while playing for Carolina as testament that he was worth the investment........but then again, the pro bowl is more about popularity with the media than anything else, so........

[Patler]

I wonder if Carolina thinks they got a good return on their investment in him? Three seasons, 45 games and something like $16 million paid to him in salaries and bonuses.

I would throw out the fact that he went to the pro bowl while playing for Carolina as testament that he was worth the investment........but then again, the pro bowl is more about popularity with the media than anything else, so........

Ya, I doubt whether the coach or GM care if a player goes to the Pro-Bowl or not, or that that justifies what they spent. :lol:

I wonder if Wahle would have made it in 2005 if he hadn't just signed the biggest FA contract by a guard ever? So many players seem to make it not in the year or years they really deserved it, but some other year for some other reason. Look at William Henderson.

[PackerBlues]

Yes Henderson is the perfect example. Looking at his stats, you would have to wonder if he was even playing, and yet he meant so much to the team for so long. It was a sad day when Willy left the GB roster. :cry:

(it also reminds me of how Alstott kept going to the pro bowl as a HB :roll: )

[Guiness]

I guess I must be alone in thinking he wouldn't have been a bad acquisition.

He can still play the position, and I have my doubts about almost everyone, except

I would have like to see him come in here, and force the kids to get by him to earn a spot in the line. If he were to come in and NOT start, that would be great - because even if he isn't pro-bowl material anymore, he's still ok. And I don't think the money paid him would matter much, we've got so much cap room anyways, we can affoard a guy or two making starter money to be sitting on the bench.

[Patler]

I guess I must be alone in thinking he wouldn't have been a bad acquisition.

He can still play the position, and I have my doubts about almost everyone, except

I would have like to see him come in here, and force the kids to get by him to earn a spot in the line. If he were to come in and NOT start, that would be great - because even if he isn't pro-bowl material anymore, he's still ok. And I don't think the money paid him would matter much, we've got so much cap room anyways, we can affoard a guy or two making starter money to be sitting on the bench.

Don't take any of my comments above to suggest I wouldn't have liked him back for a couple years. On the other hand, I don't care that he's not going to be here either.

[Bretsky]

I guess I must be alone in thinking he wouldn't have been a bad acquisition.

He can still play the position, and I have my doubts about almost everyone, except

I would have like to see him come in here, and force the kids to get by him to earn a spot in the line. If he were to come in and NOT start, that would be great - because even if he isn't pro-bowl material anymore, he's still ok. And I don't think the money paid him would matter much, we've got so much cap room anyways, we can affoard a guy or two making starter money to be sitting on the bench.



IMO he'd have been a very good addition

[Merlin]

I don't want to hear "We like who we have here" and "We hope to be successful" this season from Ted Thompson. It's time to shore up the guard positions with or without Favre. If that's a stop gap veteran for a season or two until someone develops, fine. This idea of drafting someone and starting them is shown for the weakness it can be at this position. I don't like the idea of drafting someone to start. We have been too lucky for too long with that and it's time to be a real team and develop players.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't want to hear "We like who we have here" and "We hope to be successful" this season from Ted Thompson.


Yeah, well most of us didn't want to hear "I hate who we have here" and "were going to be unsuccessful" from you all last year. As Mick might say - you can't always get what you want. But at 13-3, we got what we needed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I don't like the idea of drafting someone to start. We have been too lucky for too long with that and it's time to be a real team and develop players.

Why is it "lucky?"

[pbmax]

Those Pro Bowls of Rivera's were a source of aggravation for Wahle. He thought the team did a much better job promoting Rivera than himself and I think he laid blame for that on Sherman. He told the J-Sentinel that he felt he was not one of Sherman's favorites.


McGinn seems to have an awful lofty opinion of Wahle, stating:


From 2001-'04, Wahle performed as well if not better than any guard in Green Bay since Gale Gillingham's career wound down in the early 1970s.

Seems somewhat unfair to Marco Rivera, a Pro-Bowl selection in 2002, 2003 and 2004. It is also inconsistent with his own grading of Wahle, which lagged behind Rivera in the early years. In 2001, he only gave Wahle a "C-plus". I suspect Timmerman and Taylor performed as well as Wahle did in 2001 and 2002. In 2003 he seemed to catch Rivera and probably was better than Rivera in 2004, mostly due to Rivera's injuries. I'm not sure that Wahle's best year in GB, probably 2004, was as good or better than Rivera's best years. Wahle is such a perfect looking athlete for the position that I think sometimes he is given more credit than a guy like Rivera who isn't as smooth in his performance, but always managed to get the job done.

Wahle didn't become a Pro-Bowl player until his contract made him a celebrity, not that the Pro-Bowl isn't about reputation as much as performance anyway. However, when Rivera made it he didn't have that type of promotion. He just scratched and clawed his way to earn the respect of the voters.

Wahle had 4 good solid seasons in GB, during which he got better and better. His best in 2003-2004 were pretty darn good, I admit. Luckily for him he hit his prime and had his best performances leading into a critical contract year.

[Patler]

Those Pro Bowls of Rivera's were a source of aggravation for Wahle. He thought the team did a much better job promoting Rivera than himself and I think he laid blame for that on Sherman. He told the J-Sentinel that he felt he was not one of Sherman's favorites.


Wahle does come across as a guy who believes he was under appreciated in GB. Rivera was a starter for 5 years before he made his first Pro-Bowl. Wahle didn't really lock in the starting spot until 2001 and by 2003 he was complaining about not being a "favorite".