Are Morency and Cole done in GB?

[PackerBlues]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/02/27/restricted-period-up-in-24-hours.aspx

The restricted period ends Thurday and neither Cole or Morency have been assigned a tender yet.

[RashanGary]

Done to both. Hopefully Ruvell Martin and Frank Walker find their way to the door as well.

[RashanGary]

Cole, Morency, Martin and Frank Walker


These are the four who are old enough to know we don't have anything. If any of these guys is on 53 man roster when the season kicks off, I'd be suprised.

[Lurker64]

Considering that they took franchising Williams down to the wire, I wouldn't be surprised if Thompson tenders either of these guys at 10:57 Central Time tomorrow.

Depending on what team scouts think of Muir and Bolston (and potential later round DTs), Cole probably gets a mid-range tender. Morencey might not be back, though.

[Lurker64]

Done to both. Hopefully Ruvell Martin and Frank Walker find their way to the door as well.

How can you want Ruvell gone? Ruvell was great last year, he caught virtually everything thrown to him and every time he had the ball he was doing something good with it. He's likely the best #5 WR in the league. Don't get rid of him unless you've got somebody better ready to go right away.

Personally, I don't really want to get rid of anybody on this team. Some people might be gone as an economic decision (like Bubba was), but nobody on this squad was so bad last year that I want them gone.

Also, Frank Walker isn't the answer longterm, but you can never have enough CBs going into camp. I'd say if you can pay him what you paid him last year, you bring him into camp and cut him if somebody else does better. He wasn't embarassingly awful, he just wasn't particularly good.

[MTPackerfan]

I don't have problems with Ruvell either. Like Lurker said, caught most everything thrown his way and was a good down-field blocker.

[PackerBlues]

I don't have problems with Ruvell either. Like Lurker said, caught most everything thrown his way and was a good down-field blocker.

I agree completely. I looked at Ruvell as being a project for the future. Besides, he does a great imitation of Favre. :lol:

[Lurker64]

I agree completely. I looked at Ruvell as being a project for the future. Besides, he does a great imitation of Favre. :lol:

He can also long snap, or was that Jones? I know one of our WRs was the backup longsnapper.

[BallHawk]

Done to both. Hopefully Ruvell Martin and Frank Walker find their way to the door as well.

And your problem with Ruvell is?

[Charles Woodson]

Done to both. Hopefully Ruvell Martin and Frank Walker find their way to the door as well.

And your problem with Ruvell is?

i was waiting for you to show up in this thread


lol but yea keeping ruvell is a good idea.

[RashanGary]

Ruvell doesn't help on ST's and he's below average at WR. I don't think he's going to get any better so I'd rather see turnover than stagnantly average at our depth positions.

Cole is what he is and that's below average. I'd rather see a young guy who might be a starter some day than keeping a guy who we know will never be.

Morency is junk

I'd rather see a young up and comer than Walker.


It's never good to have below average talent sitting at the bakc of the roster never turning over. The more guys you take a look at, the better chance one has of stepping up. Hell, I consider Daniel Muir and Charlie Pepprah higher priorities than any of these four.

[b bulldog]

Martin is a talent that is under utilized imo.

[Lurker64]

Martin is a talent that is under utilized imo.

Agreed 100%, he has everything you'd want in a receiver except straight line speed.

[Patler]

I don't think the lowest tender would net the Packers anything for Cole. Cole came into the league as a free agent, I think. I certainly can't see a higher tender for him than that.

[Bretsky]

I don't have problems with Ruvell either. Like Lurker said, caught most everything thrown his way and was a good down-field blocker.


What about the HUGE drop against the Giants; that could have been a game changer ?

Ruvell is OK; but I would not be surprised if we find somebody better either

[Patler]

I don't have problems with Ruvell either. Like Lurker said, caught most everything thrown his way and was a good down-field blocker.


What about the HUGE drop against the Giants; that could have been a game changer ?

Ruvell is OK; but I would not be surprised if we find somebody better either

Going into last year, I liked Holiday better than Martin. I'm not sure what the Packers plan to do with him, or how significant his injury was.

[Bretsky]

To me it was a given that Morency was gone; kind of funny how that deal worked. We traded our junk in Gado for their junk in Morency

As for Cole, I'd be surprised if he didn't get offered some kind of tender. If nothing else he's a serviceable end of the bench player and protects us in case of injuries. Good worker...limited talent. He's a guy we'll always be looking to upgrade from.

[Lurker64]

Ruvell is OK; but I would not be surprised if we find somebody better either

The reason you get rid of Ruvell is because you have someone better, not because you intend to someday find someone better.

Ruvell is a guy you cut in August, not a guy you cut in February.

[Bretsky]

Ruvell is OK; but I would not be surprised if we find somebody better either

The reason you get rid of Ruvell is because you have someone better, not because you intend to someday find someone better.

Ruvell is a guy you cut in August, not a guy you cut in February.

You just described why you tender Colin Cole with something

[RashanGary]

I never meant to say cut Ruvell right now. If nothing better comes along that that is all we have. I do expect him to get beat out in camp.

I expect that Thopson finds better at all four of the positions I listed and I don't think Ruvell is underutilized at all. He's tall. He has no explosion, no abilty to get separation deep or in short area. He has a big body with pretty good hands, that's it.

[Lurker64]

Realistically though, "we can let him walk if we find someone who plays his position better" can be said for any player on any roster in the league.

I personally hope we find someone better than everybody currently on our roster, but there's nobody on this team who's so embarrassingly bad that I'm looking forward to his ouster.

[oregonpackfan]

I don't have problems with Ruvell either. Like Lurker said, caught most everything thrown his way and was a good down-field blocker.


What about the HUGE drop against the Giants; that could have been a game changer ?

Ruvell is OK; but I would not be surprised if we find somebody better either

I agree with Bretsky. Martin has made some huge drops in crucial games. He is on the fence about staying with the team, IMO.

[Freak Out]

Morency has really done nothing since he's been here and when he is in games I have never been impressed.

Package all three of them for some trade.....maybe Huff? :lol: :lol:

[superfan]

Martin and Walker are signed, right? And only Cole and Morency are up for RFA?

I say sign Cole for the minimum available, he is worth that. Let Morency walk. Draft a RB who can compete with the guys we have. If Cole gets beat out in camp, so be it, but he is a decent end of the depth chart guy.

[Lurker64]

I say sign Cole for the minimum available, he is worth that. Let Morency walk. Draft a RB who can compete with the guys we have. If Cole gets beat out in camp, so be it, but he is a decent end of the depth chart guy.

Cole went undrafted, so if you tender him at the lowest amount, I don't believe we receive any compensation if he signs with another team. I suppose that's an option, but it's a tricky situation. If you tender him at the lowest, you've got a chance at losing him and getting nothing, which makes tendering him kind of an odd choice.

Not tendering him and offering him a contract seems a wiser choice than tendering him, but I'm not sure about it.

If there was the interest in bringing back Morencey, tendering him at the lowest would make a lot of sense since he was a third round pick, since I'd give up Morencey for a third round pick in an instant.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cole, Morency, Martin and Frank Walker

These are the four who are old enough to know we don't have anything. If any of these guys is on 53 man roster when the season kicks off, I'd be suprised.

Any roster? I'd be surprised if at least three of them weren't on an NFL roster next year. Cole has value as a backup. Walker is only 26 years old. He'll sign on elsewhere to be a 5th corner. Martin will be on a roster. Even Morency will likely get signed by another team, but might end up getting cut. It doesn't hurt to tender these guys. It isn't going to cost anything to cut them later.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Realistically though, "we can let him walk if we find someone who plays his position better" can be said for any player on any roster in the league.

I personally hope we find someone better than everybody currently on our roster, but there's nobody on this team who's so embarrassingly bad that I'm looking forward to his ouster.

I think the point is that it won't cost them anything to cut them later. It doesn't hurt to have them on the 80 man roster--especially Cole. If you get to training camp and it doesn't look like they'll make the squad, then cut them--like Thompson did with Manuel and some other veterans.

[BallHawk]

Ruvell does what he is asked. He's a #5 WR. When he's thrown the ball he catches it (with the exception of that drop against the Giants.) He's not fast, but he's several inches taller than any WR on our roster. He could play #3 WR on some NFL teams out there. He's a team-first guy with a good attitude. Our WR were good last year, don't fix what's not broken.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ruvell does what he is asked. He's a #5 WR. When he's thrown the ball he catches it (with the exception of that drop against the Giants.) He's not fast, but he's several inches taller than any WR on our roster. He could play #3 WR on some NFL teams out there. He's a team-first guy with a good attitude. Our WR were good last year, don't fix what's not broken.

If Ruvell is your 3rd receiver you are a terrible team.

He is just a guy. You could sub in Holliday and we'd have the exact same discussion next year.

Ruvell should go as we could take a younger player with more potential and hopefully get lucky.

[packrulz]

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080228/PKR01/802280519/1989/frontpage
In the meantime, Thompson has until today to determine what tender, if any, to offer his two restricted free agents to retain the rights to match any offer they sign or receive compensation: defensive tackle Colin Cole, whose agent is Neil Cornrich of NC Sports, and running back Vernand Morency, whose agent is Drew Rosenhaus.
An NFL source said the Packers will place the second-round tender of $1.47 million on Cole, meaning they'll get a second-round pick if another team signs him and they don't match. The best guess is the Packers will put the low tender of $927,000 on Morency, which means they'll get a pick in the round Morency was drafted (third) if another team signs him and they don't match.

[RashanGary]

I stand by my prediction. None of these guys will be on OUR 53 man roster when the season kicks off. I don't care what happens between now and then. I don't think thye should tender any of them becuase if they cut them later, they won't go into the forumula for getting compensitory picks and they do have a chance of sticking to a shitty team with no depth. They earned a spot on our roster last year. I just expect the roster to get better.

[RashanGary]

Cole is OK. I just think with him it's a situation where we have so many DT's that he's not needed right now and I'd rather see guys being developed at the back of the roster than guys like Cole. Hell, Martin is OK too, but they're is a similar situation. They're both at the back of extremely deep rotations and I'd rather those spots go to developmental guys with potential.

The roster is getting deep enough now where it's hard to make the team. You don't want to ever get stagnant and stop bringing guys in. In that case, I think the best type of guys to move on from are the average so/so's that will never be more and aren't good enough to get on the field with our team (see Cole, Martin, Morency and Walker).

[The Leaper]

Agreed 100%, he has everything you'd want in a receiver except straight line speed.

Considering WRs are like the sports cars of the football world, saying he doesn't have great straight-line speed is a problem.

Martin will never be more than a #3 WR in the NFL. He's decent in most areas, but has no speed and struggles to get separation.

I agree that Robinson/Martin seems to be a tossup at this point. Martin probably has a little better upside as a receiver, but Robinson does offer kickoff return skills...he averaged almost 24 yards a return last year, which isn't shabby.

However, I don't see the point in yelling about Martin's usage. The guy is not better than any of our top 3 WRs.

[The Leaper]

A 2nd round tender on Cole seems about right.

Considering our lack of depth at RB, at least putting a low tender on Morency is a good idea...even if he isn't likely to make the final roster in 2008.

[The Leaper]

The roster is getting deep enough now where it's hard to make the team. You don't want to ever get stagnant and stop bringing guys in.

We aren't stopping the inflow of players JH. It is the offseason, we can have a ton of guys on the roster...and it helps to have as many guys on your roster that know your system as possible.

[RashanGary]

I wouldn't put a tender on Cole. I'd be suprised of Thompson does. I think eh can put the right to refusal tender or something like that because Cole was undrafted. That's about all I see happening.

[Merlin]

I am so glad Justin Harrrell isn't part of the NFL. Even happier that he has nothing to do with the Packers roster moves. I would even go so far as to say I would take Ted Thompson's decision making over his any day.

Dumbass.

[Lurker64]

Considering our lack of depth at RB, at least putting a low tender on Morency is a good idea...even if he isn't likely to make the final roster in 2008.

We don't have much depth, but we have a lot of bodies that ostensibly play RB: Grant, Herron, Jackson, Morencey, Wynn, probably a couple of more guys who were on IR this year, and we'll probably pick up a guy or three after the draft this year.

I could see Morencey as expendable. But you probably tender him at the lowest, just in case.

[Merlin]

You would keep Herron over Morency? I like Herron but after seeing what the Packers did to him after a 2-3 week injury vs. Morency's 2-3 month injury, I would say Herron is gone. You don't put a guy you want to keep in IR with a knee scope over a guy with a serious knee injury no matter who he is. The second Herron went on IR, he was done as a Packer.

[Lurker64]

You would keep Herron over Morency? I like Herron but after seeing what the Packers did to him after a 2-3 week injury vs. Morency's 2-3 month injury, I would say Herron is gone. You don't put a guy you want to keep in IR with a knee scope over a guy with a serious knee injury no matter who he is. The second Herron went on IR, he was done as a Packer.

I didn't say I prefer one over the other, for all I know they're both expendable. I was just saying that while we don't have a lot of depth at RB, we have a lot of bodies.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if our RBs going into the season are Grant, Jackson, Wynn, and somebody we draft.

[The Leaper]

If Ruvell is your 3rd receiver you are a terrible team.

Well, your team may be OK...but your depth at WR isn't worth much.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If Ruvell is your 3rd receiver you are a terrible team.

Well, your team may be OK...but your depth at WR isn't worth much.

Good point.

[Merlin]

You would keep Herron over Morency? I like Herron but after seeing what the Packers did to him after a 2-3 week injury vs. Morency's 2-3 month injury, I would say Herron is gone. You don't put a guy you want to keep in IR with a knee scope over a guy with a serious knee injury no matter who he is. The second Herron went on IR, he was done as a Packer.

I didn't say I prefer one over the other, for all I know they're both expendable. I was just saying that while we don't have a lot of depth at RB, we have a lot of bodies.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if our RBs going into the season are Grant, Jackson, Wynn, and somebody we draft.

I would like to see White in that mix. he is still on the practice squad I think. He is a punishing type back that can help us on 3rd and short. We don't really have a threat for that right now. I like Herron, I think the guy is a solid backup. I don't think he has the talent to be the #1 all season but could make a very nice 3rd down back. Wynn I am not sold on, too injury prone. Jackson seemed to have changed his running style to be more like Grant at the end of the season so we will see how he works out. Right now though I would be comfortable letting Morency go and finding another back.

[Lurker64]

So did we tender either of them?

[Bretsky]

So did we tender either of them?


Both

Cole 2nd round
Morency 3rd round


Nobody will want either of those guys at that price

[Lurker64]

So did we tender either of them?
Nobody will want either of those guys at that price

I agree, but it's conceivable that the market for DTs will go completely insane. Glad they kept Cole, at least.

[Bretsky]

So did we tender either of them?
Nobody will want either of those guys at that price

I agree, but it's conceivable that the market for DTs will go completely insane. Glad they kept Cole, at least.



They had to keep Cole after losing Williams

I'm sure TT would LOVE to get a 2nd for Cole if somebody made him an offer as well

[Scott Campbell]

I am so glad Justin Harrrell isn't part of the NFL. Even happier that he has nothing to do with the Packers roster moves. I would even go so far as to say I would take Ted Thompson's decision making over his any day.

Dumbass.



This quote perfectly illustrates why you so deserved every bit of the crap you got for your "brilliant" predictions from last year.

[Scott Campbell]

So did we tender either of them?
Nobody will want either of those guys at that price

I agree, but it's conceivable that the market for DTs will go completely insane. Glad they kept Cole, at least.



They had to keep Cole after losing Williams

I'm sure TT would LOVE to get a 2nd for Cole if somebody made him an offer as well


That, and the salary $$$ associated with those tenders seems very reasonable.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.

[Scott Campbell]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.


I think they tendered him with a 2nd because they want him on the roster and didn't want anybody picking him up.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.


I think they tendered him with a 2nd because they want him on the roster and didn't want anybody picking him up.

Thats true. I'm just saying I actually want to lose him for a 3rd and then draft another DT in the draft. I just don't see Cole getting any better than what he is. Either way another great move by TT.

[RashanGary]

I think they should have let Morency go in hopes of gathering comp picks.

After the Williams trade, the Cole tender makes sense.

[Bretsky]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.


I think they tendered him with a 2nd because they want him on the roster and didn't want anybody picking him up.

Thats true. I'm just saying I actually want to lose him for a 3rd and then draft another DT in the draft. I just don't see Cole getting any better than what he is. Either way another great move by TT.


Since Cole was not drafted I thought they had to tender him here or just have the right to match. Maybe I'm wrong. They tendered Morency for the round he was drafted in I think.

Patler, am I remotely right ??

[RashanGary]

It seems like Thompson wants to go into camp with as much ammo and competition as possible. The cream will rise to the top and who knows what will happen with minor trades.

[The Leaper]

I think they should have let Morency go in hopes of gathering comp picks.

What the hell comp pick would you get for Morency? The pick before Mr. Irrelevant?

We lost Ahman Green and David Martin...both capable starters...and you figure we aren't going to get more than a 5th round pick. But you think Morency, a mediocre reserve, is going to reap something similar?

Losing a guy who has experience in your system as a RB isn't worth some late round draft pick in NEXT year's draft. If Morency can't make the final roster, so be it. However, he should be given the chance to do so considering our lack of strong depth at the position.

[Patler]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.

There is no such thing as tendering him for a 3rd. The options are:

Right of first refusal (ROFR)
ROFR + draft selection in player's original draft round
ROFR + 2nd round pick
ROFR + 1st round pick
ROFR + 1st and 3rd round picks

Morrency was tendered at the second level, which turns out to be a 3rd round pick because that is the round he was drafted in.

Cole was a free agent, so the first and second levels were effectively the same.

[RashanGary]

I think I was wrong here. After the Williams trade I think Coles likelyhood of sticking goes way up.

However, people have mentioned that letting guys go now is stupid. Bring in as much competition as possible and cut them in camp if it works out that way, not right now. It's not like they are taking the space of young guys at this point. We can carry over 100 players into camp. IF young, intriguing guys end up in camp we still have the option to get rid of these guys. This way we get the added benefits of competition as well as a fall back plan until the final decision is made.

[Bretsky]

Only reason to let guys go now is for salary cap reasons; otherwise let them come in

[Patler]

I think I was wrong here. After the Williams trade I think Coles likelyhood of sticking goes way up.

However, people have mentioned that letting guys go now is stupid. Bring in as much competition as possible and cut them in camp if it works out that way, not right now.

I don't think the Williams deal makes much difference. Cole is used more as a substitute for Pickett. If another DT fills that role better than Cole, he will be gone. If not, he will stay.

[The Leaper]

However, people have mentioned that letting guys go now is stupid.

That is the general gist. Why let one of your guys go for nothing? To just let someone walk free, they need to fall into both of the following categories:

1. They must be of no use to you going forward
2. Their salary is higher than you are willing to pay

Thus, we see why Bubba was hacked. He wasn't really any use to us going forward, and his salary was too high.

If you are of some use going forward, obviously you keep the guy. If a guy's salary is not a burden, there is no reason to let him go at this point in the offseason until he proves himself incapable on the field in camp. With an 80 man roster, there will be plenty of very weak players around. Someone who was part of your 53 man roster the year before certainly has the talent necessary to stick around.

[RashanGary]

Only reason to let guys go now is for salary cap reasons; otherwise let them come in


Yeah, my logic was that it's best to use valuable lower end rosters spots on guys with potential. Holwever, we can have over 100 players going into camp. These guys aren't in place of a young potential guy right now. They are in addition until we have to make the choice. Bottom line is there is nothing to lose in letting them go and keeping them just gives more options.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wish TT tendered Cole for a 3rd. I would love to get another high pick in the draft. Nobody will bit for a 2nd though.

There is no such thing as tendering him for a 3rd. The options are:

Right of first refusal (ROFR)
ROFR + draft selection in player's original draft round
ROFR + 2nd round pick
ROFR + 1st round pick
ROFR + 1st and 3rd round picks

Morrency was tendered at the second level, which turns out to be a 3rd round pick because that is the round he was drafted in.

Cole was a free agent, so the first and second levels were effectively the same.

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up.