Williams to be Traded

[Carolina_Packer]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhdYOjnFT2E8wM7Ac087ayA5nYcB?slug=source packerstotradefran&prov=tsn&type=lgns#larger

I just read this and thought I'd pass it along since there didn't appear to be a post about it. It would be interesting to see if TT gets draft picks or another veteran, or veterans or a combo of both.

[MJZiggy]

If, if, if, could, could, could. Any one of us could have written that article. It doesn't say anything definite, just that something could happen, but we all already knew that.

[red]

if they do trade him it will be for picks not other players

you can almost take that to the bank

[RashanGary]

I've been saying Williams would get a 6 or 7 year deal worth over 50 million and 15 or so guaranteed.

Well, look what this guy just got. He's a similar player to Williams. It sure makes that franchise tag look like a no brainer.

The Oakland Raiders stepped forward Thursday on the eve of free agency and signed Tommy Kelly to the largest contract ever given to a defensive tackle.




Kelly

Kelly, a defensive end scheduled to move to defensive tackle this season, signed a seven-year, $50.5 million contract Thursday that has $18.125 million in guarantees. In the first three years of the deal, he will make $25.125 million.


The Raiders' plan is for the 300-pound Kelly to replace the retiring Warren Sapp as the three-technique defensive tackle in the Raiders' 4-3 defense. The move is similar to the one made last year by the Detroit Lions' Cory Redding, a franchise player who signed a seven-year, $47.5 million deal last summer, the highest among defensive tackles at the time.

Like Kelly, Redding was an effective run-stopping end with some pass-rush ability so the Lions believed he could move to tackle, work next to Shaun Rogers and create a solid 1-2 interior defensive tackle punch. The Raiders believe Kelly can emerge as one of the league's best interior defenders.

Kelly gained the confidence of Raiders coaches by averaging five tackles a game as a starter at defensive end. He's had 13 career sacks, and the Raiders believe he can be a pass-rushing force at defensive tackle because of his quickness.

First, though, Kelly has to get healthy. He's coming off a torn ACL that limited him to seven games last year. He had 30 tackles and a sack in those games. Kelly was going to be a highly coveted defender in free agency because he could play defensive tackle in a 4-3 or defensive end in a 3-4.

He came to the Raiders in 2004 as an undrafted free agent out of Mississippi State.

[b bulldog]

i hope he gets traded

[RashanGary]

If it's a pick, I want no worse than a high #3. He's a good player. We're not going to give him away for nothing and looking at what similar players are getting, you can bet yoru britches he's valued around the league.

[b bulldog]

I THINK A TWO OR A THREE MAY BE HAD FOR HIM

[b bulldog]

TEAMS WILL NOT WANT TO GIVE AWAY HIGH PICKS AND BIG MONEY THOUGH.

[RashanGary]

I THINK A TWO OR A THREE MAY BE HAD FOR HIM

A late #2 or a high #3 is what I'd want. I can't imagine getting much more.


I'd also be open to take a late #3 with a late #4.



It's tough though. He's a very good player. You can't just give him away. This one year having him could make a difference for us.

[b bulldog]

I disagree on him making a huge difference here in GB next season but I think TT makes a deal with him.

[RashanGary]

Is Williams trying to force a trade? If so, I would not be the least bit suprised. He was really close to a 50 million dollar deal with 20 of it up front. Now he gets 6. . .

I'd be disappointed to say the least.

[Scott Campbell]

An un-named source? Hmmmm. I suppose he may be traded. But I'd be hard pressed to put much credibility into this kind of story.

[b bulldog]

50 with 20 up front, where did you hear that?

[RashanGary]

Tommy Kelly is a pretty similar player. That is what he got. On the UFA market I think Williams would have pulled in close to that.

Now that he's tagged he'll probably get about 6-36 from whoever signs him IMO. IF he hits UFA next year, it will go back up.

[b bulldog]

raiders over paid him, screwed up the DT market so he may have gotten something close to that, who knows.

[MJZiggy]

An un-named source? Hmmmm. I suppose he may be traded. But I'd be hard pressed to put much credibility into this kind of story.

Isn't that what I said?

[packers11]

Citing "sources," the Washington Post reports the Browns will acquire franchise player Corey Williams from the Packers at midnight tonight.

Source: Washington Post

[packers11]

Updated :

Citing "sources," the Washington Post reports the Browns will acquire franchise player Corey Williams from the Packers at midnight tonight.

Green Bay is known to be looking for a second-round pick in exchange for Williams. Cleveland would use Williams at end in their 3-4. If this report proves true, Packers GM Ted Thompson will look brilliant. By franchising Williams and shopping him, Thompson will have picked up a day one pick for a player he appeared all but certain to lose.
Source: Washington Post

[Scott Campbell]

An un-named source? Hmmmm. I suppose he may be traded. But I'd be hard pressed to put much credibility into this kind of story.

Isn't that what I said?


Can't I agree???


:lol:

[gbpackfan]

WOW! What a great move by TT. I would to get a second round pick for Williams. He pretty much disappeared the second half of the season. I just hope Jolly recovers nicely. But I am a big fan of Harrell's. I know I am in small company here, but you'll see, oh yea....you'll see!

[b bulldog]

Agree that if we could squeaze a second rounder for him it would be great and that he did disappear the last 8 games of the season.

[b bulldog]

PFT.com and the Post is saying that this is a done deal.

[pbmax]

I'm pretty sure this will cover the six round pick we gave up for Grant. If its a round 2 pick plus something else, I think its a good move.

Schaub had a 1 and 3 tender didn't he, and a QB fetched 2 second rounders. A quality DT should get a two and a sixth, shouldn't he?

The only thing we know, it won't be a first round pick from the Browns this year.

[b bulldog]

Unless the Cowboys are willing to give it back to them :lol:

[red]

good move TT

browns have a late 2nd round pick (#56), i'm guessing its that

[Lurker64]

PFT.com and the Post is saying that this is a done deal.

Here's the citation for Corey Williams Traded to Cleveland (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/02/free_agent_update_1.html?nav=rss_blog).

I wonder, assuming this is true, what we're getting. What does Cleveland have that we want? Their second round pick is 56th overall (we're 60th), but that's their first pick in the draft, so would they trade it for Williams? Their third round pick is 87th overall (we're 91st). Maybe Williams, and our third for their second and a later round pick(a fourth, say)? Do they have any players who are likely to be traded our way?

[b bulldog]

Could also be something like a 3 and a 5 or 6. I hope it is their 2 cause three picks in the the first two rounds wold be nice. We could trade up or trade one of the 2's for numerous other picks. This move creates more cap room for TT to do some magic :lol:

[pbmax]

If Brady gets into any more trouble yelling at revelers at alternative lifestyle nightclubs, the Browns might want to swap Brady back for that number one :lol:


Unless the Cowboys are willing to give it back to them :lol:

[RashanGary]

We'll see. If it's a done deal like they say it is, we should know tomorrow, right?

[MadtownPacker]

Damn, this is just smooth hustling TT is running here. He gets their #2 he is gonna LOAD up on quality players. As mentioned, when Williams was called on at the end of the season he never answered. I hope this happens.

[Rastak]

Damn, this is just smooth hustling TT is running here. He gets their #2 he is gonna LOAD up on quality players. As mentioned, when Williams was called on at the end of the season he never answered. I hope this happens.


I'd agree that a #2 would be a good deal for the Packers.

[gbpackfan]

The post is saying we should know in about 3 hours.

HERE IS A QUOTE: "Corey Williams has been traded to Cleveland."

Pretty strong language.

[Brando19]

Perhaps Braylon Edwards? He's been having contract issues.




Wishful thinking? MAYBE!!!!!!!! :lol:

[RashanGary]

I just wonder what CLE is giving up. Like someone mentioned, they already traded away their #1. Are they really looking to trade away thier #2 as well. Maybe they're willing to trade away one of next years picks.

Who knows? Time will tell I guess.

[packers11]

someone check around the Cleveland brown forums... :wink:

[red]

they have derrick anderson who the tendered to the highest possible thing. meaning they can get a 1st and third for him.

and with brady quinn on the team and not a lot of quality free agent qb's out there, they could get some decent picks for him

[SkinBasket]

http://www.dawgbones.com/phBB/viewtopic.php?t=8954

Just as much skepticism and confusion, but it might turn into an insightful thread.

[pbmax]

Same WashPost blog had the price for Marcus Stroud of Jacksonville as a number 2 pick. Williams is younger, but I would have to admit I'd be surprised if we would get Stroud value for Williams. Except for the playoffs, I haven't seen Stroud play much, but in my memory, his rep is above Williams.

[packers11]

someone on the browns forum said...

"Our 2nd round pick and 2008 and 2009"

I don't know how reliable that is!!! Thats more like wishful thinking on our part :lol:

[RashanGary]

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3906012#3906012

"Packers trying to drive up the price now reporting 5 teams and not three interested in Williams and he's talking to all of them."


Hahaha, 5 teams in the bidding. TT is a bad ass :) :)

[RashanGary]

At some point you have to take something though. C-dub is the only talented DT on the trade block or UFA. His value seems higher than we thought.

[packers11]

At some point you have to take something though. C-dub is the only talented DT on the trade block or UFA. His value seems higher than we thought.

Yea i am surprised how many people outside of packer land are in love with this guy...

By the way.... If he gets traded does that mean we gain our 6-7 mill in cap back??? 8-)

[packers11]

pft.com

POSTED 11:00 p.m. EST, February 28, 2008

BROWNS HOPING TO LOSE ANDERSON?

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that, in order to get defensive tackle Corey Williams from the Packers, the Browns will send a second-round pick to Green Bay.

[RashanGary]

We would get our cap space back. A high 2nd would be ideal, but I'd be happy with Clevelands #56 if that's how it turns out.

[RashanGary]

Apparently Fox 8 is the Cleveland affiliate. Anyway, this is what Browns fans are saying right now. I wouldn't be suprised if it's a #3 this year and a #3 next year or something like that.


Fox 8 is reporting the deal is done and will be announced after midnight. Also, they could not say exactly what is being traded for him, but they said they are hearing draft picks. Which HOPEFULLY means maybe a 3rd and some other later pick this year or maybe next year. If we could get Williams and not lose our 2nd..... O BOY :D :D

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If five teams are after him, then how is the deal supposedly done?

I would be very very happy for Williams for a 2nd though.

[falco]

don't the browns run a 3-4? i don't think williams fits in the 3-4 well.

[ND72]

don't the browns run a 3-4? i don't think williams fits in the 3-4 well.

Williams is the idea 3-4 DE.

[packers11]

don't the browns run a 3-4? i don't think williams fits in the 3-4 well.

He would be the "DE" in a 3-4... I have no clue how he would fit/workout in that system...

[falco]

thanks - was just curious.

[RashanGary]

I think he's an ideal 3-4 DE as well. He wouldn't get as many sacks, but he'd open things up for a good pass rushing OLB like Wimbley.

[Bretsky]

Any TV stations confirming this ??

[packers11]

Did Oakland push the FA money for DT's off the charts? Causing TT to seek a trade since there is no way he would even come close to matching this... (all speculation) but the deal Oakland gave for this guy that isn't even a top 5 DT is amazing...

www.rotoworld.com

Raiders re-signed DL Tommy Kelly to a seven-year, $50.5 million contract. The deal includes $18.125 in guarantees and $25.125 million in the first three years.

He's now the highest-paid tackle in the NFL. Kelly, who can play every spot on the defensive line, is scheduled to replace Warren Sapp at the three technique this year. It's a shock a former undrafted player coming off reconstructive knee surgery would get a contract like this, but Kelly was too valuable for Oakland to let walk. This re-sets the bar for Albert Haynesworth, Corey Williams, and eventually Vince Wilfork to get new deals. Feb. 28 - 2:16 pm et

[Freak Out]

So is this a done deal? If he is traded for a pick it better be at least a second....we need a punter.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If we get a second for Corey Williams than we are getting the better deal IMO. He's a good player, but I think his stats are making him seem better than he is. Like I said though a second would be great. It's funny how that a mouth ago I was pretty much expecting him to leave out right and had no idea we could actually get this high of a pick for him with the tag.

[RashanGary]

Well, whatever leak came out seems to be done now. I don't think we're going to hear another peep until tomorrow some time.

Hopefully it goes through at midnight like the Browns fans say it will.

[Joemailman]

The Browns have tendered Derek Anderson with an offer that would net them a 1 and 3 if someone signs Anderson. That would explain why they're willing to give up a 2. Great move by TT if this happens.

[The Leaper]

I've stated before that I would dance a jig if Thompson got a 2nd rounder for Williams.

:bs2:

BS stands for Big Suckas...as in the Cleveland Browns. Williams is a solid player...he ain't worth a 2nd round pick and $25M+ in essentially guaranteed money.

[red]

I've stated before that I would dance a jig if Thompson got a 2nd rounder for Williams.

:bs2:

BS stands for Big Suckas...as in the Cleveland Browns. Williams is a solid player...he ain't worth a 2nd round pick and $25M+ in essentially guaranteed money.

not even close

two weeks ago i was gonna be happy to let him go and take our 4th round compensation pick next year

my hats off to TT on this one

[RashanGary]

With the tag, Williams doesn't have UFA leverage. I'm guessing he gets 40 mil with 12 guaranteed. If he was a UFA I think he'd get more.

[Patler]

Some Browns fans are convinced that Favre IS retiring based on the website snafu today, and the deal is Williams and the Packers 1st for Anderson. No kidding! Some seem convinced of it!

[The Leaper]

It is very cold in Cleveland...and it smells bad.

They are looking for any ray of hope.

[red]

Some Browns fans are convinced that Favre IS retiring based on the website snafu today, and the deal is Williams and the Packers 1st for Anderson. No kidding! Some seem convinced of it!

i saw that too, its amazing what other teams fans can come up with.

we aren't that dumb are we?

one guy said the packers don't want rodgers anymore because he's one of those guys that has all the tools, but he never works out or puts in the extra time

[Guiness]

Went to the link Basket de Skin posted.

Interested. Mixed views, but no one really knocking Williams. This post was funny.


we need a starter at DE, and we won't find a day one starter in the third round. especially with the free agent pool drying up so fast, we need to make a big move. this could be it.

haha, GB loves mediocre running backs..maybe we trade them harrison or wright, and a 7th for williams.

But they also seem pretty convinced someone will grab Derrick Anderson from them, and give up a 1st and 3rd.


This signing could actually give us more flexibility in the draft, assuming we get the 1st and 3rd for DA.

And

I think its 2nd round pick to Green Bay, because Savage will get picks back for Anderson.

Although this one gave me pause

Here's my guess. Earlier today, the Packers website announced that Favre is retiring and they pulled it down. I bet, and don't hold me to this, I bet we trade DA to the Packers for Corey Williams and their 1st rounder.

Give this guy credit for putting some pieces together!

[RashanGary]

Wasn't it the Washington post that reported the Moss to GB thing was a done deal the night before the draft?

I'm sure there is some talk going on, but I wouldn't be convinced that it's final just becuase the W post says it is.

[Bretsky]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/default.aspx

[RashanGary]

Well guys, talk to ya'll tomorrow. This is pretty exciting. I hope Jolly and Harrell come back ripped and ready and then Muir takes a nice step forward.

Now we might end up keeping Cole too :( He's OK I guess, I just liked having Williams better :)

[RashanGary]

Williams done. 6 yrs $38 million pending physical


I predicted 40 with the tag and 50 without it. I was pretty damn close.

[Lurker64]

I'm happy to have 3 first day picks. CW for a 2nd was a good deal, and he was definitely worth franchising, in retrospect.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Williams done. 6 yrs $38 million pending physical


I predicted 40 with the tag and 50 without it. I was pretty damn close.

Does he have a source??

[RashanGary]

I'll bet most news comes out of Cleveland now. Williams and his agent will want to cozy up to the CLE media. GB means nothing to them now and we all know we mean nothing to TT so he's not going ot break anything for our sake.

[RashanGary]

Up to the second FA updates on sports center next.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

We will know more tomarrow, good night.

[Lurker64]

For those keeping score at home, assuming CW was traded for the Browns 2nd, our first three picks are now worth 620 (#30), 340 (#56), and 300 (#60). If Thompson were to trade all of them in a bold gambit to move up in the draft, that's 1260 points which is approximately the value of the 11th pick overall.

If he were to simply trade our #1 and one of our #2s, that would put us at around 16 or 17 overall.

All of this is assuming that there's a willing dance partner, of course.

[Bretsky]

I'm find just staying put

Think if a RB like Stewart feel to round one
pick up a TE in round two
and a CB in round two

And sign a veteran starting OG


Ah, one can dream

[Joemailman]

With the draft being strong at TE, OT, and CB, I doubt TT will trade up. The one exception might be if he thought he could move up to the middle of the 1st for Keith Rivers.

[Lurker64]

Potentially we could trade Cleveland's 2nd for the entire 6th and 7th rounds?

[Joemailman]

Any chance we get a 3 for Ahman Green? That would be 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. :shock:

[wpony]

over on the dawg board they are all waiting up and waiting for there Xmas present to come early LOL corey all wraped up for them

[Lurker64]

I think this trade actually works well for both teams. The Browns get a DE that's good for their system, and we get a 2nd round pick for the price of the franchise tag, that is to say, for free.

[Partial]

NFL Network is reporting this as well. That is a phenomenal deal if true!!

[wpony]

I agree I like CW but we can win with out him but that 2nd rounder will help much more it was a brilliant move only thing might be to high for TT lol I like TT but seems he does his best drafting on the second day LOL

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree I like CW but we can win with out him but that 2nd rounder will help much more it was a brilliant move only thing might be to high for TT lol I like TT but seems he does his best drafting on the second day LOL

It will help--if they pick a good player. Second round picks aren't guaranteed to be that. Then again, maybe Thompson hits a Greg Jennings like HR with it.

[Partial]

Wow, this is looking like a done deal. Kudos to TT for getting a 2nd out of an above average player that wasn't going to be here anyway!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Looks like a done deal. Great deal. An extra 2nd round pick and $6.3M of cap space.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=723290

[Bretsky]

Looks like a done deal. Great deal. An extra 2nd round pick and $6.3M of cap space.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=723290


This is why you had to tag him; either we get one more good year or draft picks. In this market 6MIL is not that much.

Good move by TT

They can get a top rated TE with this if they choose; certainly a very good player

[Bretsky]

Any chance we get a 3 for Ahman Green? That would be 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. :shock:


No chance; well be lucky to get a 5th

[Lurker64]

Any chance we get a 3 for Ahman Green? That would be 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. :shock:


No chance; well be lucky to get a 5th

Does Frank Walker cancel out David Martin, do you think?

[Bretsky]

Any chance we get a 3 for Ahman Green? That would be 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. :shock:


No chance; well be lucky to get a 5th

Does Frank Walker cancel out David Martin, do you think?


It probably does, although IMO Martin was certainly more valuable than Frank Walker. At worst they wipe each other and we get a 5th to 7th for Green IMO.

It's too bad Ahman didn't have a great year; we could have had another 3rd to 4th round pick

[Guiness]

Looks like a done deal. Great deal. An extra 2nd round pick and $6.3M of cap space.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=723290

I hope the cap space didn't factor into this. That's something we don't have to worry about this year.

I hope TT did this because he sees a big improvement in Harrel and/or Muir, and doesn't think Williams is needed. Yes, a 2nd rounder is nice, but that's the future. I'm pretty sure Williams would've helped us more than any second round choice will this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Looks like a done deal. Great deal. An extra 2nd round pick and $6.3M of cap space.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=723290

I hope the cap space didn't factor into this. That's something we don't have to worry about this year.

I hope TT did this because he sees a big improvement in Harrel and/or Muir, and doesn't think Williams is needed. Yes, a 2nd rounder is nice, but that's the future. I'm pretty sure Williams would've helped us more than any second round choice will this year.

Not necessarily. If Harrell and/or Muir (and any rookies) step up to complement Pickett and Jolly, we might not be that much worse off without Williams. Maybe the second round pick comes in and shines. You never know. Plus, it's possible that Thompson uses the $6.3M saved to sign FAs or resign some of his own players.

[b bulldog]

Well done TT, well done! :bclap:

[Scott Campbell]

It is very cold in Cleveland...and it smells bad.

They are looking for any ray of hope.


It's warmer in Cleveland than Green Bay. And the days of Cleveland smelling bad are long gone. They've done a great job with their downtown area.

[Bretsky]

Anybody want to bet that one of our second rounders turns into a 3rd and 4th rounder ?

Only the first two rounds are on day one; I already envision TT trading down with one of those picks to regroup strategy wise day 2

I'm ready for the draft now; bring it on

[Spaulding]

CW to the Browns. This has the makings of Keith McKenzie to the Browns but with netting a high draft choice and the Browns getting burned worse due to the cost of the contract.

As Red mentioned earlier, losing CW to FA seemed like a strong possibility just a few weeks ago and then TT tags him and viola - high draft choice. TT amazes me all the time. Wonder if he moonlights at Texas Holdem tournaments for practice on enhancing his dealings with other GM's.

Any word on Packers interest in Huff? I nowhere near the fan Tank is of him but still remember that National Championship game when he was all over the field and can't believe he wouldn't be a solid player in our secondary.

[Carolina_Packer]

Here's an official release that I saw on Yahoo Sports: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmTPi9aJlVkUHkhBY3Y.Lp45nYcB?slug=txbrow nspackerstrade&prov=st&type=lgns

Kudos to TT for making this possible by tagging him and finding Phil Savage the GM of the Browns as a trade partner. They were only going to get one more year out of him at most, and did not see themselves competing for his services after that, so rather than let him walk, he parlayed that into a 2nd rounder! Great job!

[Scott Campbell]

As Red mentioned earlier, losing CW to FA seemed like a strong possibility just a few weeks ago and then TT tags him and viola - high draft choice. TT amazes me all the time. Wonder if he moonlights at Texas Holdem tournaments for practice on enhancing his dealings with other GM's.


I'm glad he did it, and pleased with the results. But its not rocket science either. I think some of us are amazed just because we were so used to Sherman and his blunders.

[RashanGary]

We had sort of a cruddy group of picks with being #30 in every round and then losing our 6th rounder (although it was well worth it). This gives this draft class a lot better chance of being a big success.


I'm hoping for

CB
OT
OG
TE
DE
DT
WR
RB
QB
S

Oh hell, I think our roster could use better talent at every position. CB, OT, TE and DE are the positions I'm most hopefull for though.

[Scott Campbell]

Anybody want to bet that one of our second rounders turns into a 3rd and 4th rounder ?

Only the first two rounds are on day one; I already envision TT trading down with one of those picks to regroup strategy wise day 2

I'm ready for the draft now; bring it on


I'm not as sure about trade down scenarios this year. The roster doesn't have the holes it previously did, and we don't have as many job openings. Though I suppose having to cut very good players at the end of camp is a good problem to have.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm find just staying put

Think if a RB like Stewart feel to round one
pick up a TE in round two
and a CB in round two

And sign a veteran starting OG


Ah, one can dream

This dream seems very probable, so don't be surprised if it happens B. We really need a CB and a TE and the deepest position in free agency is OG which is probably our biggest need.

Right now am just so happy with this trade. Makes draft day all that more exciting.

[Bretsky]

Anybody want to bet that one of our second rounders turns into a 3rd and 4th rounder ?

Only the first two rounds are on day one; I already envision TT trading down with one of those picks to regroup strategy wise day 2

I'm ready for the draft now; bring it on


I'm not as sure about trade down scenarios this year. The roster doesn't have the holes it previously did, and we don't have as many job openings. Though I suppose having to cut very good players at the end of camp is a good problem to have.

Ah, I think there are several area of improvement that are there

We could use more capable players at the following positions without even thinking much.........:

TE
LB
OG
OT if they don't have faith in Barbre and Colledge
S
CB
CB
P
QB

If a stud RB is there in round one and TT wants to go BPA he may grab him as well. WR would not surprise me either. This draft is suppose to be quite deep so adding up the picks in TT style can only help.

[The Leaper]

It's warmer in Cleveland than Green Bay. And the days of Cleveland smelling bad are long gone. They've done a great job with their downtown area.

I've sat in Jacobs Field and Cleveland Browns Stadium numerous times in the last 10 years.

It still stinks, although the smell more comes and goes now depending on weather conditions.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not as sure about trade down scenarios this year. The roster doesn't have the holes it previously did, and we don't have as many job openings. Though I suppose having to cut very good players at the end of camp is a good problem to have.

I'm convinced that Thompson will stick to his guns. If he's at a pick and has a bunch of guys grouped similarly, he'll see if anybody wants to trade down. Whether you think you need depth or not, why not go this route?

[Joemailman]

Wow, this is looking like a done deal. Kudos to TT for getting a 2nd out of an above average player that wasn't going to be here anyway!!

Give Me A T!
Give Me A T!
What's That Spell?
TT!!! :wave:

[RashanGary]

I do think there is a benefit to stacking players even if you have decent ones.

Rayner had a decent year. We brought in a draft pick, cut Rayner and moved forward.

Our DT situation looked good. We brought in a high pick, and then got a 2nd rounder.

We have a pretty good WR situation right now, but if we brought another in, Martin would likely be replaced.



I also think there is an added benefit in letting everyone know they could be replaced. I know these guys have the opportunity of a life time and shouldn't do anything to risk it, but how many of you have ever gotten into a bad routine or slipped into a little rut at the age of 22 or 23? It can happen to anyone. I think it's less likely to happen in a situation where you know the GM will do everything he can do to replace you even if you're OK.

[Scott Campbell]

If, if, if, could, could, could. Any one of us could have written that article. It doesn't say anything definite, just that something could happen, but we all already knew that.


Like I said, you need to have more faith in these people. They wouldn't put their reputations on the line by printing unsubstantiated rumors.

[Patler]

If, if, if, could, could, could. Any one of us could have written that article. It doesn't say anything definite, just that something could happen, but we all already knew that.


Like I said, you need to have more faith in these people. They wouldn't put their reputations on the line by printing unsubstantiated rumors.

You are absolutely right, Scott. Just last year they told us:


ProFootballTalk.com has been reporting all week that the deal, rumored to include Green Bay backup quarterback Aaron Rodgers heading to Oakland, is close to consummation.

Moss Today, the Boston Herald reports the deal as imminent and that the Packers could introduce Moss as early as Friday. The Herald backs up what ProFootballTalk has been reporting for several days -- that Packers quarterback Brett Favre is helping orchestrate the deal and has been talking to the Raiders' cranky receiver through the process.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

PFT reporting that Williams deal done in Cleveland already.

CORRECTION ON COREY WILLIAMS NUMBERS

A league source tells us that the reported numbers on the contract for Browns defensive tackle Corey Williams are a bit off.

Williams gets $16.3 million in guaranteed money, and a six-year deal worth $38 million.

[CaliforniaCheez]

CORRECTION ON COREY WILLIAMS NUMBERS


Williams gets $16.3 million in guaranteed money, and a six-year deal worth $38 million.

For perspective, that is approximately double Pickett's contract.

[Bretsky]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

[RashanGary]

CORRECTION ON COREY WILLIAMS NUMBERS


Williams gets $16.3 million in guaranteed money, and a six-year deal worth $38 million.

For perspective, that is approximately double Pickett's contract.

More than Kampman too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

[Bretsky]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

Whether it's a 2nd or 3rd next year that player will probably not be as valuable as Williams to Green Bay. That being said, I can live with a late 2nd for that sacrifice. Just a 3rd would not sit well with me.

[CaliforniaCheez]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

Whether it's a 2nd or 3rd next year that player will probably not be as valuable as Williams to Green Bay. That being said, I can live with a late 2nd for that sacrifice. Just a 3rd would not sit well with me.

It is still better than a compensatory next year.

[run pMc]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

Whether it's a 2nd or 3rd next year that player will probably not be as valuable as Williams to Green Bay. That being said, I can live with a late 2nd for that sacrifice. Just a 3rd would not sit well with me.

It is still better than a compensatory next year.

It didn't have to be a compensatory. We could franchise him again.

[Deputy Nutz]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

Why not sign and trade? I guess it isn't the same as basketball.

[Bretsky]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

Whether it's a 2nd or 3rd next year that player will probably not be as valuable as Williams to Green Bay. That being said, I can live with a late 2nd for that sacrifice. Just a 3rd would not sit well with me.

It is still better than a compensatory next year.

Assuming we lose him; next year my gut tells me KGB comes off the books. That money, theoretically could have went to CW

[Bretsky]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

I believe they get the 6.3 MIL put right back onto their cap

[Zool]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

Why not sign and trade? I guess it isn't the same as basketball.

I'm not 100% on basketballs cap or anything, but the team that owns the rights to a player can offer more money and an additional year over what other teams can offer. That might be only max contract guys though. Also the signing bonus comes out of the team that signs the deal. NBA contracts are guaranteed so a signing bonus isn't needed.

[Patler]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

I think JSO's wording is a bit confusing. The $6.3 million is added back to their available cap dollars. Williams will count nothing against the cap if it happens as described.

[SkinBasket]

I believe they get the 6.3 MIL put right back onto their cap

I think that's right too. The JSO snippet was worded like shit and made it sound like the money was counting against the cap instead of being removed from it.

[Patler]

From JSO:

Once Williams is traded, the $6.363 million amount will be added to the team's salary cap, giving them roughly $24 million of room.

So I'm assuming that this is dead money GB carries this year for trading a franchised player. The mechanics are probably something like: CW signs the franchise tender, GB trades CW, CLE tears up the contract, and resigns to the long term. Not sure though.

Either way, I thought CW was a good player, but didn't show enough to me to be a starter over Jolly or Jenkins. Maybe he'd continue to develop as a payer and beat them out for a starter spot, but I didn't see it. I did see him as an important role/platoon player. It will be up to the rest of the DL to pick up the slack, and up to TT to replenish the talent. Getting a R2 is a good deal here.

Why not sign and trade? I guess it isn't the same as basketball.

He will sign the franchise tender, which is transferred to Cleveland, and then cancelled with a new contract signed.

If he signed the new deal with the Packers, the entire signing bonus would count against Green Bay. Only the salary and future bonuses transfer to the new team.

[b bulldog]

It is for a second rounder

[CaliforniaCheez]

He will sign the franchise tender, which is transferred to Cleveland, and then cancelled with a new contract signed.

If he signed the new deal with the Packers, the entire signing bonus would count against Green Bay. Only the salary and future bonuses transfer to the new team.

Not exactly. A franchised player cannot be traded. The contract extension has to be signed with Green Bay.

As a practical matter, The Browns will hammer out the agreement with Williams and Cleveland will fax it to the Packers which will officially write it up for Williamson signature. Then the trade with the Browns will take place.

The signing bonus is a sensitive issue. I expect it to be called a roster bonus or be spread over the contract or otherwise absorbed by the Browns without being a Packer problem. We should not worry too much. Professionals are handling it.

[Guiness]

Anybody want to bet that one of our second rounders turns into a 3rd and 4th rounder ?

Only the first two rounds are on day one; I already envision TT trading down with one of those picks to regroup strategy wise day 2

I'm ready for the draft now; bring it on

Ok, this is OT, but I'm not getting why the NFL has moved round 3 to day 2.

They changed the time limit for picks from 15 to 10, right? So that should speed things up? Why then move the 3rd round?

I'm guessing because they wanted a later start to move the draft closer to prime time? I think it kind of sucks for those players taken in the 3rd round, because they're no longer 'first day picks'.

[Patler]

He will sign the franchise tender, which is transferred to Cleveland, and then cancelled with a new contract signed.

If he signed the new deal with the Packers, the entire signing bonus would count against Green Bay. Only the salary and future bonuses transfer to the new team.

Not exactly. A franchised player cannot be traded. The contract extension has to be signed with Green Bay.

As a practical matter, The Browns will hammer out the agreement with Williams and Cleveland will fax it to the Packers which will officially write it up -for Williamson signature. Then the trade with the Browns will take place.

The signing bonus is a sensitive issue. I expect it to be called a roster bonus or be spread over the contract or otherwise absorbed by the Browns without being a Packer problem. We should not worry too much. Professionals are handling it.

I believe, but am not positive, that the restriction is only that they can not trade a franchised player who has not yet signed the tender offer. Many players wait all summer to sign it, so can not be traded in the mean time. (A negative for the player not signing the tender is that it can be withdrawn if not signed.) I looked the CBA over quickly and couldn't find anything directly on point. If you know of it and can direct me to it I would appreciate it. I like to be accurate on the details, and am not sure about this one at all.


That's not to say that they couldn't do it the way you suggested, so long as everyone follows through with their promises made before the papers are signed. There are a lot of competing interests:

-the player wants a bonus immediately
-the player wants control over where he goes to the extent he can
-the original team doesn't want to be stuck for bonus money now
-the original team doesn't want to get stuck for a roster bonus later if the contract is signed and then the trade not consummated
-the acquiring team wants to know that they have a long term deal, and not a situation where they trade for the guy, give something up, then can't sign him or he refuses.

The league made some changes a while ago to facilitate some situation like that, including not requiring a team to have cap room for a player they sign and trade away on the same day. That facilitates the sign and trade scenarios that you suggested.

[Partial]

Anybody want to bet that one of our second rounders turns into a 3rd and 4th rounder ?

Only the first two rounds are on day one; I already envision TT trading down with one of those picks to regroup strategy wise day 2

I'm ready for the draft now; bring it on

Ok, this is OT, but I'm not getting why the NFL has moved round 3 to day 2.

They changed the time limit for picks from 15 to 10, right? So that should speed things up? Why then move the 3rd round?

I'm guessing because they wanted a later start to move the draft closer to prime time? I think it kind of sucks for those players taken in the 3rd round, because they're no longer 'first day picks'.

It just makes the draft deeper with lots of second day talent :lol:

That's how it works right? :lol:

[Guiness]

LOCAL ESPN RADIO IS REPORTING THE DEAL MIGHT BE FOR A 3RD

I still think that would be a solid deal. Not great, but solid. 2nd round would be a great deal.

Whether it's a 2nd or 3rd next year that player will probably not be as valuable as Williams to Green Bay. That being said, I can live with a late 2nd for that sacrifice. Just a 3rd would not sit well with me.

It is still better than a compensatory next year.

I have to disagree. I would rather have Williams this year and a compensatory next year than a 3rd this year. With the cap room we have, the money's pretty much a wash, IMO.

[Guiness]

I like to be accurate on the details, and am not sure about this one at all.

:shock: I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! :shock:
/sarcasm

[snip]


-the original team doesn't want to get stuck for a roster bonus later if the contract is signed and then the trade not consummated.

Yes, this is an interesting aspect...with stuff like physicals, etc. Especially for a DT.



The league made some changes a while ago to facilitate some situation like that, including not requiring a team to have cap room for a player they sign and trade away on the same day. That facilitates the sign and trade scenarios that you suggested.

Didn't know this. Interesting, and gives some flexibility, but unless the NFL allows the xfer responsability of the signing bonus, I don't see how it's useful. Better minds than mine are at work on it though, I'm sure!

[CaliforniaCheez]

I'm not trying to argue with anyone and there are many details we will learn later. I am adamant on two points. The franchised player cannot be traded.
So Williams extension must be signed with Green Bay prior to the trade.

The signing bonus may not be due to the player until say 30 days after signing etc so the Packers will not pay or take a cap hit unless that is part of what is traded for the pick. It doesn't have to be.

I don't think it matters in this case if Williams signs the franchise tender or not before the extension. If it were a long drawn out process it would.

[Patler]

I am adamant on two points. The franchised player cannot be traded.
So Williams extension must be signed with Green Bay prior to the trade.


Just asking how you know this. I'm not arguing either, I just want to know, because everything I have read says they can't trade a franchised player who has not signed the tender. But as I said, I did not find an answer in the CBA, and until I do I realize the snipets elsewhere can be, and often are inaccurate.

Why are you so sure about this?

[red]

i'm with patler

thats also my understanding. if the guy signes his tender, then he can be traded. that is then his contract, until the new team redoes it

[LL2]

Now the Packers have 3 picks in the top 60 picks. I'm excited about the deal with Cleveland. If TT wanted to move into the top 10 by trading the 1st and one of the 2nd rounders he could. The Packers can get a playmaker or two out of this draft and add depth. TT is the man!

[RashanGary]

Acctually, according to the trade chart the Packers would be able to move their #1 and two #2's to move up to pick #11.

[RashanGary]

I don't know what the odds are of hitting playmakers, but I'd wager it's more likey teams hit a playmaker with the combined selection of #'s 30, 56 and 60 than pick #11 alone. We had pick #5 and we didn't get a playmaker.

[LL2]

I don't know what the odds are of hitting playmakers, but I'd wager it's more likey teams hit a playmaker with the combined selection of #'s 30, 56 and 60 than pick #11 alone. We had pick #5 and we didn't get a playmaker.

You make a good point. You might as well keep all 3 and increase the odds of landing a playmaker, and possibly two.

[red]

I don't know what the odds are of hitting playmakers, but I'd wager it's more likey teams hit a playmaker with the combined selection of #'s 30, 56 and 60 than pick #11 alone. We had pick #5 and we didn't get a playmaker.

jury is still out on hawk, if the coach turns him loose he could very well turn into a playmaker

but i agree with you, the chances are better finding a playmaker with the 3 picks we have now, opposed to just having one pick

of course we did draft a playmaker in the second round, after we drafted hawk

[Patler]

The signing bonus may not be due to the player until say 30 days after signing etc so the Packers will not pay or take a cap hit unless that is part of what is traded for the pick. It doesn't have to be.
.

I'm not sure how that would work, but I am willing to be educated. I am trying to understand, not argue here.

Anything called a signing bonus is due to the player for having signed the contract. So in this situation that would protect Williams. But, per the CBA, anything called a signing bonus is a signing bonus (presumably regardless of when paid). When a trade occurs, anything that is a signing bonus counts against the team making the trade. That would seem to indicate that if it is a signing bonus, it hits the Packer's cap.

On the other hand, to keep it off the Packer's cap by calling it something else (a roster bonus or whatever) does not protect Williams to the same extent. If something were to happen before payment is due, illness, injury (non football related) etc. the team could refuse to pay.

[Joemailman]

Acctually, according to the trade chart the Packers would be able to move their #1 and two #2's to move up to pick #11.

Trading away 1 of the 2nd's could get TT from 30 to about 17. He might consider that if the right player were available. It would be a sign of Armageddon if TT were to trade both 2nd's just to move to #11.

[Tony Oday]

So what picks did we get?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wonder if the chiefs would be interested in dealing Allen. I would give a 1st and 2nd for him. He did say that if he played under the tag this year that it would be his last with the team. I can dream can't I..... :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

So what picks did we get?

Cleveland's 2nd round pick apparently (#54, I believe). Nothing official has been released by either team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wonder if the chiefs would be interested in dealing Allen. I would give a 1st and 2nd for him. He did say that if he played under the tag this year that it would be his last with the team. I can dream can't I..... :)

I can't see trading a 1st and 2nd for a guy who is one strike away from getting suspended for a year.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wonder if the chiefs would be interested in dealing Allen. I would give a 1st and 2nd for him. He did say that if he played under the tag this year that it would be his last with the team. I can dream can't I..... :)

I can't see trading a 1st and 2nd for a guy who is one strike away from getting suspended for a year.

I forgot about that, what did he do again?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wonder if the chiefs would be interested in dealing Allen. I would give a 1st and 2nd for him. He did say that if he played under the tag this year that it would be his last with the team. I can dream can't I..... :)

I can't see trading a 1st and 2nd for a guy who is one strike away from getting suspended for a year.

I forgot about that, what did he do again?

Couple of DUIs within the last 2 years.

[Fritz]

Does anybody here really want Thompson to go the route the Browns are going this year? They have no first or second round pick now.

[Patler]

Does anybody here really want Thompson to go the route the Browns are going this year? They have no first or second round pick now.

...or third round pick.

[LL2]

Does anybody here really want Thompson to go the route the Browns are going this year? They have no first or second round pick now.

...or third round pick.

That's pretty stupid. Mortgage their future for Quinn and Williams. Something TT would never do.

[b bulldog]

Phil Savage, Cleveland GM, admitted to reporters that the browns have sent their second round pick, 56th overall, to Gren bay for Williams.
JSO

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Phil Savage, Cleveland GM, admitted to reporters that the browns have sent their second round pick, 56th overall, to Gren bay for Williams.
JSO

Great, now sign a guard like Scott or Bell and then have a great draft. Perfect off-season.

[b bulldog]

It is now officially a done deal, good move TT.